Brentford (h) - 01/09/12 - League One

[cumonureds]

[quote="bleed_red_n_white"][quote="cumonureds"]Dean Smith has to be blamed. Played well in the first half then after Smith has done his team talk we come out playing like that. Then just like last season he doesn't make a substitution quick enough and can't change a game when it starts going badly. There is not enough experience in the team and that showed with the bench. Paterson kept giving the ball away in the 2nd half (after playing a good first half and scoring) and needed to be substituted yet Smith was just too late.
It was my first game this season due to holidays and after seeing that we will struggle yet again this season, I spent the entire time looking at their end in the second half, just waiting for Brentford to score.[/quote]



No doubt you will get slated for this just as i did by the usual clique that havent even bin to the game.

Abysmal second half totally ruined by Smiths substitutions.[/quote]

Maybe but they will have to realise at some point that Smith is to blame!!! I agree, unfortunately Smith managed a whole season of useless substitutions last season so doubt he will ever learn!!

[walsallfcconnor]

nice to see we're still fantastic holding leads!!

[King Crimson]

Cumonyoureds and boringteacher have it right - we needed five in the middle.

We look no more threatening with two strikers rather than one though. The fact that Brentford effectively went to two at the back shows our front two weren't doing enough to keep the back line busy, but the two meant that we were all too often over-run in midfield (especially when neither Paterson nor Hemmings look overly interested in defending). To have a player who could receive the ball deep from Grof would have meant that there was less of a need to keep going long only to see the ball come back almost every time. Not much wrong with the back four at all - but if we yield the pitch to the opposition for forty five minutes, they'll have enough chances to score.

Paterson needs to recognise that football is a contact sport, and that tricks and flicks become predictable to any half-decent full back after 60 minutes.

Featherstone, Flo, and Purkiss impressed me most today.

A draw was probably a fair result from a genuine, if clichéd, game of two halves.

[ToeJoe Jnr]

Smith on WM gave the "we had a youthful team out there" line!!! Oh dear Dean, that is a result of your signings during the Summer, please don not use this as an excuse again!

He also stated that their first goal was a foul on Grof? Now I know I was at the other end, but to me it looked like akeeper whose confidence is shot came out and instead of catching the ball or punching it some distance, he flapped and palmed it into Douglas's path!!! What happened after that was inevitable.

Question is do we stick with Grof for the next game? Sticking by him is commendable and shows the gaffers confidence which hopefully Grof can build on. However keep dropping clangers like today and his confidence will be shot for a long time. I am not sure, but hs kicking, which was a excellent part of his game last season, was suspect today, so it is showing. Do we replace him with Wacka and take him out the firing line? A keepers confidence isn't just an individual thing, it will have a big part to pay in the whole team. After their first goal, you could feel the tension.

1st half was the best I have seen us play (I have missed the first few games) for a long time, however 2nd half we sat to deep and allowed the to much possession. Poor half time team talk??? Smith said on WM that we sat to deep but he didn't look to change this in anyway? Compounding matters by taking Patterson (who flattered to deceive at times)and replacing him with a central defender in midfield!

I have left feeling partly positive, partly confused and partly disappointed!! At least I can see some positives which may not have been the case last season. There is something within this team that we can build on.

[m&m]

Yes we played too deep in the second half however would still have come away with a fortunate 3 points if not for flapper Grof!

I got shot down on here 2 weeks ago for stating that jimmy should be no.1 after his nightmare agaist Donny. since then I've seen nothing to change my mind.

It cannot carry on like this. you simply cannot afford a dodgy keeper. We should have had another 2 points on the board towards survival.as soon as he flapped the ball to Douglas for them to score it was inevitable they would score again as the defence were shattered by his latest error.

he had nothing at all to do in this game and presented points again to the opposition.

For gods sake get jimmy back in the side.
I'm prepared for the barrage again but it's my opinion and i'm sticking to it.

[Bernie]

Over the 90 minutes we were very lucky to gain a point from that match. Brentford had the freedom of our penalty area on numerous occasions but until the last five minutes generously wasted the many golden opportunities they were given.

We have major weaknesses in defence which meant that perhaps a dozen times the Brentford forwards had free headers at fairly close range which they either nodded lamely to Grof or put over the bar. There were also at least six or seven clear shots at goal from close range that could easily have been Brentford goals. Andy Taylor is a very good signing and Butler worked very hard, but they cannot do it on their own.

How many times did we try to pass to Grigg in the air? Could someone please point out to the manager that whatever he can do from the neck down, when the ball arrives above neck height Grigg is totally useless. He won one contested header and spent the next five minutes rubbing his head - he made sure that it didn't happen again.

[Darth Vader]

Yep same. Jimmy back in for me, two points dropped there due to the fella, we were cruising and playing some top football until what looked like a Grof clanger down the other end.

[PT]

Really good game. Good point against a good side.

Maintains Deans continuous improvement. I think the three results against the three sides who were in our division last season have all been improvements and yielded five more points than equivalent fixtures last year.

Bowerman answered the calls for a berth in the starting line-up but also answered the question as to why he doesn't get many ninety minutes, he was blowing after half an hour and out on his feet and effectivel a passenger after an hour. If he hadn't lost his wind there's no way he would have been taken off as his first half performance and goal was brilliant, but for someone his age at this stage of the season that level of fitness is a serious concern. Smith had no choice in taking him off, but as others have said we should have gone five across the middle. Williams had absolutely no impact.

Obviously gutting to concede so late but I fear had we conceded earlier we'd have lost. 2-0 at half-time flattered us. 2-0 at 85minutes was daylight robbery.

Looking at the line-ups and the benches, we shouldn't be able to live with sides like that. The biggest concern isn't how a bunch of kids who tried their hardest let a two goal slip. It isn't the manager's selection or substitutions. The biggest concern is how on earth can I see two squads so unevenly matched, when the other team is Brentford ffs? The other slight concern is how un-fit some of our lads seem. This coupled with hammy's going all over the shop poses some questions of JW and his team.

[BathSaddler]

A 1-1 draw in front of 3,452, including 434 Bees.

A 2-2 draw in front of 3,434, including 469 Bees.

Not bad, not bad at all :wink:

[WelshWalsallBen]

just got back and gutted really good game though Pat and Bowerman both did well. Flo my MOM. We should have took the lead sooner but quality save from the Bees keeper tipped onto the bar. They had a couple of chances then we scored. And ko we score again nice. 2nd half bad subs made and we lost the plot dunno what the tatics were. Saying that if u look at the bench u can see why. Glad we played 2 up front but who do u bring on. If either of Grigg or Boerman goes off. Desperate for a striker.

As for Grof 1st half seemed to keep his head. 2nd half didn't have a great view but seemed to flap.

Hopefully board will sanction a striker.

On the positives for peroids we played well. Bowerman and Paterson both on the scoresheet. Really thought when Brentford smashed the bar it was gonna be our day.

Away know on hols so hope by me missing 1st home game of season will result in us getting our 1st home league win.

Regarding 5 in the Midfield just me but home would go 2 up front 4 in midfield and if were holding onto a lead then go 5. But only with the right player. Someone like Chambers to come on for Grigg as example

[Darth Vader]

A 1-1 draw in front of 3,452, including 434 Bees.

A 2-2 draw in front of 3,434, including 469 Bees.

Not bad, not bad at all :wink:

Sparse as its been for a league game round me for ages. Terrible.

[Ancient Moaner]

A 1-1 draw in front of 3,452, including 434 Bees.

A 2-2 draw in front of 3,434, including 469 Bees.

Not bad, not bad at all :wink:

I can see this 3K home support? dipping to 2.5K before we slide into the relegation zone at Cringle, after that, who knows what? money is tight for nearly everyone out there (except the Conservatives and thier cronies of course, who will continue to get richer and richer.."lets drop our tax rate by 5% and take it away from the ever increasingly poor, thats what I say old boy!") so to continue paying to watch crud down at the Bonks's's, is a luxury many will learn to forego, especially as we descend into the annual fight against relegation......it will eventually become irritatingly boring to watch.

[Darth Vader]

A 1-1 draw in front of 3,452, including 434 Bees.

A 2-2 draw in front of 3,434, including 469 Bees.

Not bad, not bad at all :wink:

I can see this 3K home support? dipping to 2.5K before we slide into the relegation zone at Cringle, after that, who knows what? money is tight for nearly everyone out there (except the Conservatives and thier cronies of course, who will continue to get richer and richer.."lets drop our tax rate by 5% and take it away from the ever increasingly poor, thats what I say old boy!") so to continue paying to watch crud down at the Bonks's's, is a luxury many will learn to forego, especially as we descend into the annual fight against relegation......it will eventually become irritatingly boring to watch.

Take a couple of days off you prat. Did you go? If not, pipe down, we played well.

Around 3K is our real core home support, never dip any lower.

[bangsection]

The biggest concern is how on earth can I see two squads so unevenly matched, when the other team is Brentford ffs?

Brentford's Supporters' Trust managed to find a guy who not only bought the club but also pledged to add an extra £1m of his own money to the playing budget every year for five years. That's why they can punch above their weight.

I dread to think what Donaldson and Hayes earn compared to Grigg and Bowerman. But hey ho, that's twice they've played us this season and twice they've failed to beat us. Little Walsall strike again!

[BathSaddler]

A 1-1 draw in front of 3,452, including 434 Bees.

A 2-2 draw in front of 3,434, including 469 Bees.

Not bad, not bad at all :wink:

Sparse as its been for a league game round me for ages. Terrible.

Indeed, and it was the same for Donny. However, look at Football League attendances over the first three weeks of the season - more often than not they are down on the 2011/12 figures. As bad as our crowds are, it is not just us.

[PT]

The biggest concern is how on earth can I see two squads so unevenly matched, when the other team is Brentford ffs?

Brentford's Supporters' Trust managed to find a guy who not only bought the club but also pledged to add an extra £1m of his own money to the playing budget every year for five years. That's why they can punch above their weight.

I dread to think what Donaldson and Hayes earn compared to Grigg and Bowerman. But hey ho, that's twice they've played us this season and twice they've failed to beat us. Little Walsall strike again!

Interesting. Be nice to know where they found him just in case there's another one knocking about. It is also a good reminder that comparing Grigg to Donaldson or Smith to Rosler is really unfair. The comparison that really matters is the attitude (not necassaily the depth of the pockets) of the man at the top. I wonder where Jeff was when Brentford equalised today. I wonder if he knows yet. I wonder if he gives a flying one.

[Darth Vader]

A 1-1 draw in front of 3,452, including 434 Bees.

A 2-2 draw in front of 3,434, including 469 Bees.

Not bad, not bad at all :wink:

Sparse as its been for a league game round me for ages. Terrible.

Indeed, and it was the same for Donny. However, look at Football League attendances over the first three weeks of the season - more often than not they are down on the 2011/12 figures. As bad as our crowds are, it is not just us.

Far less in the Lower today than at Donny, more in the family stand though so equals out, not great still though, should be looking at closer to 4K home numbers rather than 3K. To be fair as well, we're playing some attractive stuff and ain't that far away from having a mid-table upwards side, good old folk of Walsall though I guess. :roll:

Atmosphere was crap too from both supporters, forgot about the Brentford lot until they got one back.

[Greg Oxley]

In the end, today felt like a defeat. Very disappointed we threw away a 2 goal lead but I could see it coming. I said before the match I would of been happy with a point, left slightly dejected. Many positives today and I was thoroughly entertained in the first half and glimpses in the 2nd half were pleasing.Featherstone, Purkiss and Taylor stood out for me today. Not bad, but could do better.

[Ancient Moaner]

A 1-1 draw in front of 3,452, including 434 Bees.

A 2-2 draw in front of 3,434, including 469 Bees.

Not bad, not bad at all :wink:

I can see this 3K home support? dipping to 2.5K before we slide into the relegation zone at Cringle, after that, who knows what? money is tight for nearly everyone out there (except the Conservatives and thier cronies of course, who will continue to get richer and richer.."lets drop our tax rate by 5% and take it away from the ever increasingly poor, thats what I say old boy!") so to continue paying to watch crud down at the Bonks's's, is a luxury many will learn to forego, especially as we descend into the annual fight against relegation......it will eventually become irritatingly boring to watch.

Take a couple of days off you prat. Did you go? If not, pipe down, we played well.

Around 3K is our real core home support, never dip any lower.

Not suggesting in the slightest that we didn't play well, would love to have been there, but 130 miles each way costs just a bit you know!
What I am saying is, that in Fellows Park days our 'core' support was hovering around 12K, mind you in only cost twopence to get in! The cost involved in witnessing the annual fight against relegation in those days was more acceptable.
Cost of entry is VERY relavent in todays hard times (as is the cost of transport, in my case and various other UTS members who have to content themselves with being keyboard enthusiasts for most of the time)
Pity you imagine that I am 'a prat', I enjoy your posts a great deal, you are honest and forthright..perhaps when you get to my age and you have followed the Saddlers for as long, your enthusiasm may have wained...just a jot. But keep it up...we need genuine supporters to keep that 'core' alive and well. otherwise our beloved club may struggle to continue in existence.
UTS...

[saddlerken]

Brentford were the better side and it was the least they deserved.

First look of Dean Smith's new look Saddlers, some good young players but the Manager is still totally inept. We look better going forward but the defence is going to leak goals all season long with those 2 centre backs, Holden is useless and Butler (as committed as he is) is a terrible footballer.

Smith is the luckiest manager in the history of Walsall FC in terms of blind support. He is also thick as pig muck. His interviews are embarrassing, as stupid as Kenny Hibbitt. He identified that the opposition had 1 chance in the first half and soon changed his mind to a couple despite the opposition having half a dozen chances and maybe double that in the 2nd half. He proclaimed we defended well. It's a bloody good job Brentford couldn't be bothered to shoot properly.

[Happydays2122]

Aincent moaner has a point re the gates. In the darkest days if Hibbitt 1992. We were down to a core home support of 2100. Interestingly though the away support was far far better. 400 to 500 guarunteed at most games. The club needs to do something to reignite people's interest. Bringing some 39 yr old ex prem star in something like that. At the moment there is nothing If the gates drop further it's a long long long road back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This season isn't really the issue though with lost fans. They had already gone after


A). The sale of fox and dann in a few weeks before the season end when promotion was a real possibility


B) and then the summer long search for a manager. The lauding of all the exceptional candidates and then the reappointment of SIR Jimmy Mullen !!!!!!!!!!

[Chris]

We piece some good moves together at times and I much prefer watching this than hoof ball.

2-2 flattered us on the whole I thought. We could have been 2-6 down by the point they eventually scored. Brentford were so wasteful with their chances.

It still hurt like a defeat though. I thought we were going to get away with it.

[SWS1]

I'd have taken 2 - 2 this morning but can't be anything but slightly depressed at throwing a 2 goal lead in 5 minutes.
:(

[WFC_Jimmy]

Hugely dissapointed that we threw away a 2-0 lead, at home, with 5 mins to go....(signs of an inexperienced side)

Grof: Not sure if he was fouled for the first, looked that way...

Purkiss: Looked steady
Butler: Played well, vital headers
Holden: Played well, looks to have a decent partnership with Butler
Taylor: Solid home debut

Paterson: Sometimes makes the wrong decisions, took his goal well
Cuvelier: Key player in the first half, Brentford marked him out of the game in the second (hence why they were on top)
Featherstone: When on the ball he doesnt do much wrong, but he ghosts in and out of games
Hemmings: Game changed when he went off, always looks a threat, we dont use him enough

Grigg: Should have scored and made it 3-0, WE NEED A TARGET MAN ASAP
Bowerman; My MOTM, Makes all the right runs, Always seems to create chances, took his goal very well- Must start him above Grigg

2-0 at home, with brentford growing in confidence, Grigg should have come off, with Baxendale coming on to make a 5 man midfield.

We are very lightweight in experienced players....A Target Man is a must!!! Heskey anyone?

[Bernie]

Purkiss: Looked steady
Butler: Played well, vital headers
Holden: Played well
Taylor: Solid debut

If our defence was so good, why did Brentford have so many free headers on goal, and so other many decent chances?

[King Crimson]

Purkiss: Looked steady
Butler: Played well, vital headers
Holden: Played well
Taylor: Solid debut

If our defence was so good, why did Brentford have so many free headers on goal, and so other many decent chances?

I understand what you're saying, Bernie - but when we have two young lads up front, plus two lightweights on the wings, there is insufficient challenge for me going on higher up the pitch.

Brentford were able to go effectively 2-4-4 for heaven's sake. I lost count of how many corners they had, or how many times they were able to penetrate the final third unchallenged.

Any defence cannot prevent shots from distance (that's for midfield to do) and any defence will not cope totally with corners. When they stack the box as they did with seven or eight, our back four cannot be held to account if there are free men. For example, watch Paterson at corners - he's as much of a spectator as the rest of us.

I honestly don't think the back four are inadequate for league one in any way. But, unless:

1)we start defending from the front - running the line to pull their back four around and keep them busy
2)challenge from the wings to protect the full backs
3)play with Flo unfettered by defensive responsibilities by playing three across the middle (at the expense of a striker) so we're more solid
4)play three across the middle so Grof can play the ball out short with confidence so that it doesn't come back every time (due to either his poor kicking or the lack of ability of the forwards to win and hold long balls)
we'll struggle to be solid.

We yielded possession and territory to the point where it became an attack v defence training exercise.

Smith may shrug and state on the radio that 'that's football', but this is denial.

For me, 4-5-1 is the way to go. With no prolific or experienced strikers and our most gifted player being a creative central midfielder, this seems obvious in any case but it becomes essential when our wingers are unlikely to provide much when we haven't got the ball.
Question: how many goals have we scored this season as a direct result of interplay between the two strikers?

[OldPenkSaddler]

For me, 4-5-1 is the way to go. With no prolific or experienced strikers, this seems obvious in any case but it becomes essential when our wingers are unlikely to provide much when we haven't got the ball.

Agreed, but this just shows up Smith's recruitment of lightweights or dwarfs across the midfield. Brentford were a good side made up of fit, muscular and tall players with pace. We were never going to be a physical match for them and we will come across plenty of teams like that in the next 40 games.

Playing with Hemmings and Paterson as wingers is not the answer as neither are capable of a challenge when we haven't got the ball or provide any protection for the full backs. The likes of Featherstone and Baxendale just won't cope with more physical midfielders. We desperately need Chambers fit and Mantom in on loan.

I find it quite depressing, its going to be a long old season particularly when pitches begin to deteriorate and we wont be able to play the passing game.

Having said that we have more points than I expected us to have at this stage so what do I know.

Smith Out.

[King Crimson]

I think Featherstone is decent enough, and haven't seen enough of Baxendale to really comment. Chambers, Featherstone and Cuvelier in front is fine in my view, and Hemmings and Paterson just need to commit as much when they don't have the ball as when they do.

If Grigg or Bowerman can turn into a genuine handful for sustained spells in the game, I think we're fine.

[WelshWalsallBen]

Smith out after 3 league games and 2 cup games. Playing a lot better than last year with 2 very young strikers. :shock: .

words fail me

[ChopperWFC]

Always like to sleep on a result before posting do here goes
Was frustrated to slip into last seasons habits and throw away points late on but I do feel it had a lot to do with the budget in terms of we lost a midfielder to injury so forced a change in formation which granted yielded two goals but IMHO makes less fluid in possession and more likely to hoof it to the front men. Unless we get a stronger front man that tactic just doesn't work. Secondly the budget really shows when you turn to the bench. Are some of them out of school yet ? ?
We really aren't far from a steady mid table side so remaining positive.
As for grof I've backed him all the way but said no one is undroppable. He needs to sort his head and raise his game quickly
Up the Saddlers !!!