Doncaster Rovers (H) - 18/08/12 League 1

[DonningtonSaddler]

Possession: Walsall 60% - 40% Doncaster
Shots: Walsall 8 - 7 Doncaster
On target: Walsall 4 - 4 Doncaster
Corners: Walsall 9 - 3 Doncaster
Fouls: Walsall 5 - 5 Doncaster

What's that cliché again? The stats don't lie? Those stats tell me we need a striker.

Disraeli is supposed to have said "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." However, I don't think he was at today's match.

[Garbinho]

I don't think we need to be disheartened after that performance. I think Doncaster had 3 chances and scored all of them. I think we were unlucky to go in 2-0 down at HT and on another day could have gone in leading if things had gone our way. The third goal killed it and we might as well all have gone home after that because they took a striker off and parked the defence. Doncaster are going to be there or thereabouts come the end of the season so ignoring the last half an hour where the game was over I think we competed on a level with them. The only difference between the two sides was they took their chances, we didnt but thats what happens when you play quality sides.

In terms of how we played, the thing we can take as a positive is that at no point did we resort to hoofball. Some people might say when you are 3-0 down you might need to, but we kept at our passing game and still carved a few chances. I can't help thinking DS had Tuesday in mind and at 3-0 you might as well write it off and conserve energy to be used for Tuesday. Even though they camped, we still created a few chances (Chambers, Cuvelier and Bowerman). If we keep the passing game up I think we'll win against lesser sides than Doncaster (of which I think that will be most teams in this division).

Grof - Probably at fault for the first two goals, although the first was made by some great build-up play by their strikers
Purkiss - I thought better than last week but he seems like he's hesitant in defence and very much a control it, kick it player in possession
Butler - Usual. Think he defended well apart from the goals
Holden - Seems like a good signing, shows his experience at times but can be a bit slow - caught on his heels for the first. Same as Butler
J. Chambers - Good signing. Steady in defence and steady with the ball. Would like to see him move to RB if we can sign Stewart at LB
Paterson - Anonymous at times and always looks like he's more likely to shoot than find a pass. Missed the target when had a great chance in the 1st, great bit of skill for the shot that was blocked in the 2nd. Wasteful at times
A. Chambers - seems a completely different player to last season, quick, strong and gets about.
Featherstone - Another anonymous at times, good on the ball, not sure how much he offers off it
Hemmings - The kind of player we have missed for about the last 3 years. What I call a 'territory' player - carries the ball 50 yards and puts them on the back foot. Can only imagine Smith took him off to save him for Tuesday at 3-0 down. Looked lively again, wish Paterson had the quality of his end product.
Cuvelier - Our best player by a mile, everything comes through him and I think Doncaster knew that by the fact they tried to cripple him in the first 10 mins. He suffers when we make subs because he gets moved around and it nullifies his threat.
Grigg - I stand by what I said last week. When we play football he looks useful, when we lump it up to him against two massive centre backs you cant expect him to do anything. I think he was like the rest of the team and had a good game for the first hour until they changed it up. I'm not sure what those asking to replace him with a target man want because that would completely change the way we play. If we are to persevere with the style of play we've used over the last two games, I think we should perservere with Grigg and spend wages elsewhere.

Subs
Baxendale - Didnt do much apart from look like he'd run a marathon when he chased a ball towards the end. Is he match fit?!
Brandy - Needs to learn how to warm up properly. Cant help but think he spent his warm up time tweeting! #warmedupandready
Bowerman - A lot of nothing. Game was over when he came on

I dont think we've seen a true indication of what we'll be like this season - we played an hour against a 10 man Brentford and have played one of the best teams in the division today (I think). Lets have a look at it next week when we've played 3 league games. The way we are playing fills me with confidence because today for the first hour I think we were as good as if not better than Doncaster in terms of performance. Keep it up and I think we will beat the lesser teams and credit to DS to have built the kind of footballing team we've got on the budget he has got. Overall I'm not too disappointed we lost because the signs are good, it was just one of those games today.

Finally, I can't believe people were booing at the end! I know we lost but if they boo a performance like that then they need to have a think about who they are supporting. I think we've come a long way since the dark dark Hutchings hoof days so the team deserves some credit for that! On another day I believe we could have won. 45 games to go, and a fair few wins I reckon.

[Ancient Moaner]

Can't make it down tomorrow, so the Saddlers Club entrance 'heavies' will avoid further blood spatters on thier gear....
Donny fans none to happy with the club last season, but Paynter is a 'mighty' signing..bound to get one against us...it's the law...... that all other teams star strikers HAVE to score against us..further rubbing in the salt...that "we don't need a striker"! :lol:
Expect a 1-3 defeat in front of 3,766, Hemmings to score the consolation...but the fight back towards my £1200 pay day starts on Tuesday night at Boundary Park!!!!!

Never could make predictions! Really thought we would get a consolation goal today. and Donny must have bought few with 'em!
Reports have varied, but it does appear that it's going to be an upward struggle after all.. a couple of amendments to the squad are utterly obvious to us all, but I think Deanos hands are tied re a striker...cus they inevitably 'cost' to bring on board. However, if we fail to do so...NOW, we are doomed when the statistics from todays game suggest in no uncertain terms, that Grigg should enrol on that plumbers course on a 'full time' basis and leave the footy to Sunday morning league stuff. A shame that Brandy seems to have been laid low for a while, would liked to have seen how he combined with Hemmings and Flo. Onward and upward (we cor gew any further down the current League) the fightback starts at Oldham on Tuesday night!!!
UTS come on me babbies....

[Greg Oxley]

Arrived full of optimism and really looking forward to the season, I left a bit disappointed and dejected but reminded myself that this was the first game of the season against a very useful Doncaster team who I think will get promoted .

Agree with above posts that Grof had a poor game but surely he's due one! Many times last season when others were letting us down Groffy kept us in matches. I'd stick with him as others have suggested and review it.

Both Adam and James Chambers had good matches as did Flo, Ash Hemmings and Featherstone at time. Disappointed with substitutes but I think Deano is reluctant to have both Brandy and Hemmings on the pitch together.

What really wound me up today was wasting corners, free kicks and daft mistakes like giving the ball away. We didn't play to Will's strengths today, we cannot expect him to win headers and outmuscle bigger players surely it's blindingly obvious we need a bigger forward, even if we say we're going to play proper football passing to the feet we still need someone with a big of presence.

[IHTC.]

Garbinho excellent post but slightly perplexed with your comment on Brandy, he got caught on the ankle and hopefully his achilles is ok, did you think he pulled a hamstring as im certain thats not the case

[fatboyslim]

Garbinho excellent post but slightly perplexed with your comment on Brandy, he got caught on the ankle and hopefully his achilles is ok, did you think he pulled a hamstring as im certain thats not the case

He was holding his hamstring immediately after the sprint and tackle! Looked like a definite hamstring pull where I was sitting and will probably be out for 2/3 weeks of not longer, depends ow serious it is.

[Duke]

One swallow and all that , Baggies fans are talking about challenging for a top four finish after today's result . :roll:

Obviously disappointed with our result ,lot of new players bound to take a bit if time .

[IHTC.]

Garbinho excellent post but slightly perplexed with your comment on Brandy, he got caught on the ankle and hopefully his achilles is ok, did you think he pulled a hamstring as im certain thats not the case

He was holding his hamstring immediately after the sprint and tackle! Looked like a definite hamstring pull where I was sitting and will probably be out for 2/3 weeks of not longer, depends ow serious it is.

Ah ok I didnt see him holding his hamstring, I thought he appeared to be hobbling off, my mistake

[fatboyslim]

No need to be overly despondent with today's result. Not great to lose 3-0 but 2 of those were keeper error in my opinion. We won't come up against many other teams who are both immensely physical (biggest team I have seen in a long time) and yet are also able to pass the ball well.

People can comment on the lack of chances that Doncaster had but when they were 3-0 up they only needed to sit people behind the ball and stop our passing which nullified our threat and made us resort to long ball again.

If we perserve we will beat teams and pick up points - Doncaster must be one of favourites for promition, still got some championship quality players.

We played much better football than last season and we need to wait until 6/7 games in to judge - still a long way to go! We wouldn't want to sound like someof the Liverpool fans I heard on 606 after the game......embarrassing! :mrgreen:

Grof - needs to forget about this game quickly.
Purkiss - steady but often takes too long with the simple pass.
Holden - still early days but did ok. Reminds me of Jerome of Robson & Jerome fame! :lol:
Butler - good in the air but should give the bal to the midfield every time as hispassingis woeful. Looked a bit unsteady at times today.
J. Chambers - committed and steady. Better option than Taundry at left back.
A. Chambers - playing well and doing the exact job we need.
Cuvelier - excellent on the ball but not as much space today to play his lovely passing game. Gets stuck in for a small lad!
Paterson - not great today. Too selfish and always too eager to shoot. Potential but no end product today or against Brentford.
Hemmings - good when running it played some awful blind balls today which took the pressure of them and invited it beckon to us. Volley would have been immense!
Grigg - worked hard and was tidy in possession but waste of time playing anything in the air when up against defenders who were 6'5" and 6'7". Could do with more support as isolated often.

Brandy - felt sorry for him. Looked like a hamstring pull. Hopefully not too serious as offers something different.
Baxendale - didn't do much. Doncaster had loads behind ball when he came on and space was at a premium.
Bowerman - likewise. Needs to be a bit more heads up.

[WFC_Rob]

Even though they camped, we still created a few chances (Chambers, Cuvelier and Bowerman). If we keep the passing game up I think we'll win against lesser sides than Doncaster (of which I think that will be most teams in this division).

My issue with that is the way you've dressed those three efforts up as genuine chances. The reality was, their 'keeper could have dropped his cap on most of what came his way.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

One swallow and all that , Baggies fans are talking about challenging for a top four finish after today's result . :roll:

Obviously disappointed with our result ,lot of new players bound to take a bit if time .

Indeed, Liverpool will probably go down with them.

[fatboyslim]

Even though they camped, we still created a few chances (Chambers, Cuvelier and Bowerman). If we keep the passing game up I think we'll win against lesser sides than Doncaster (of which I think that will be most teams in this division).

My issue with that is the way you've dressed those three efforts up as genuine chances. The reality was, their 'keeper could have dropped his cap on most of what came his way.

Only 2 real chances. Hemmings volley which was blocked online and Paterson who would have scored from one of the rebounds or passed it.

[IHTC.]

Garbinho excellent post but slightly perplexed with your comment on Brandy, he got caught on the ankle and hopefully his achilles is ok, did you think he pulled a hamstring as im certain thats not the case

He was holding his hamstring immediately after the sprint and tackle! Looked like a definite hamstring pull where I was sitting and will probably be out for 2/3 weeks of not longer, depends ow serious it is.

Ah ok I didnt see him holding his hamstring, I thought he appeared to be hobbling off with a sore ankle, my mistake

[TWM1962]

Totally agree with every thread I've read. Let's stop being a DINGLE. We lost, but we were unlucky. DS has finally grasped that football should be played on grass and not in thin air!
I left after watching WFC for 32 years with hope. Not gonna critise any bodies efforts today. Young kids against an ex- champo club was gonna be tuff. We need a little depth and with a decent old fashioned CF, we have a side that will torment many who wish to visit The Bescot. Bye the way Brandy will be back with VENGENCE. Remember that it was Me on this website that said we would sign quality from my contact. FLO returned. Just be paitient, but he just me surprise you all. Bums On Seats.

[Garbinho]

Even though they camped, we still created a few chances (Chambers, Cuvelier and Bowerman). If we keep the passing game up I think we'll win against lesser sides than Doncaster (of which I think that will be most teams in this division).

My issue with that is the way you've dressed those three efforts up as genuine chances. The reality was, their 'keeper could have dropped his cap on most of what came his way.

He could have done because they were straight at him, but the way I saw them was a yard either way and they could have easily been a goal. They were 3 times when we opened them up enough to get a shot at goal though.

[m&m]

I cannot understand why so many on here are bigging up Donny. They have pretty much a new team as we have, I thought they were very average. If Grof had been up to it they would only have scored once as they had very few other chances.

I predict nothing more than mid table for them.

[latviancheese]

I cannot understand why so many on here are bigging up Donny. They have pretty much a new team as we have, I thought they were very average. If Grof had been up to it they would only have scored once as they had very few other chances.

I predict nothing more than mid table for them.

They didnt have to try thats why!

Theyll be up there.

[IHTC.]

I cannot understand why so many on here are bigging up Donny. They have pretty much a new team as we have, I thought they were very average. If Grof had been up to it they would only have scored once as they had very few other chances.

I predict nothing more than mid table for them.

Once would still have been enough, after today would be suprised if they are not in the mix for automatic promotion.

[latviancheese]

Either way, they will score goals. Proper wide players and proven strikers in league one. Must be great being able to pay for players like that :(

[IHTC.]

Either way, they will score goals. Proper wide players and proven strikers in league one. Must be great being able to pay for players like that :(

Pompey can :cry:

[walsallfcconnor]

all joking aside Grof does deserve his chance this season.

[Saddler1]

bad defeat, but we all know Doncaster are a decent side at this level.

[windowman]

Sort it out with Surrey and then do what you like, i am in Spain for the next 2 weeks so **** you...........is that enough respect ?

write 100 times,i should not say idiot :lol:

[SWS1]

Donny made Championship money last season and, presumably had parachute payments and several players with Champioship experience. It is a puzzle, however, that we can't seem to sign ANY big players who can also kick a ball.. Nearly all the other teams in the division seem to have much bigger teams (judging by last season) and there is always the old adage "A good big un will always beat a good little un".
Hey Ho. Glass still half full. :)

[latviancheese]

Its embaressing seeing Purkiss running in treacle for the third goal.

[Jolly Johnny]

Its embaressing seeing Purkiss running in treacle for the third goal.

All the goals were embarrassing to watch!

Grof at fault for the first one with a fumble, clearly.
Second one not sure as a good hit, maybe just too far off his line and couldn't get back in time.
Third one was a good strike, but he was out on his 6 yard line, sort of no mans land with a striker on the edge of the box.

Keep with him though, as he saves a lot more than he lets in over the course of a bunch of games.
Be good to see how Smith alters things or not on Tuesday at Oldham.

[Jockey]

The eff off back to Hereford shouts seemed to come from that bloke who looks like Andy Carroll. One minute he was moaning at Grigg, then applauding him. Did get a bit embarrassing. Also there were too many idiots booing today. These are obviously results driven arseholes, give me a passing performance like that with real pace and I'm confident with a bigger striker we will do ok this season.

I honestly think that was Butlers worst game for Walsall. He didn't look interested and was too sloppy on the ball. I guess he's just as peed off as us that our backline has been completely dissected.

One thing that hasn't been picked up on here was the Paterson/Hemmings/Flo inter change. I like the idea to cause havoc with man marking, however for it to work we need to have all three in a fixed position when going forward. I remember at least two attacks where Flo and Paterson were in each others pockets and the ball went wider where neither player was.

3-0 was a harsh score line and not many teams will have the quality to score goals like their 2nd and 3rd but most teams will have faster wingers that will easily get passed Purkiss.

Sign Stewart and play Chambers right back - simples.

[geoffwhiting]

Sort it out with Surrey and then do what you like, i am in Spain for the next 2 weeks so **** you...........is that enough respect ?

As I implied earlier Pinnacle, you are your own worst enemy. You enjoy Spain, and we get a break too. Result! :)

[We-ARE-Walsall]

The eff off back to Hereford shouts seemed to come from that bloke who looks like Andy Carroll. One minute he was moaning at Grigg, then applauding him. Did get a bit embarrassing. Also there were too many idiots booing today. These are obviously results driven pratts, give me a passing performance like that with real pace and I'm confident with a bigger striker we will do ok this season.

I honestly think that was Butlers worst game for Walsall. He didn't look interested and was too sloppy on the ball. I guess he's just as peed off as us that our backline has been completely dissected.

One thing that hasn't been picked up on here was the Paterson/Hemmings/Flo inter change. I like the idea to cause havoc with man marking, however for it to work we need to have all three in a fixed position when going forward. I remember at least two attacks where Flo and Paterson were in each others pockets and the ball went wider where neither player was.

3-0 was a harsh score line and not many teams will have the quality to score goals like their 2nd and 3rd but most teams will have faster wingers that will easily get passed Purkiss.

Sign Stewart and play Chambers right back - simples.

Butler is an average League 1 defender, at best just above average. That's fine, he is better than some of the gash we have had, but people expect far to much from him, he really isn't all that great. He has been fully committed to the cause, if he loses that, you will see a very poor player. I'm not sure what the crack, was with Manny Smith, whether he wanted out, or if we just didn't try hard enough to keep him, but he was a massive loss for us. If we knew he was thinking of leaving, then we certainly should have tried to keep Lancashire. As it looks now, Manny's replacement is a player who has played most of his career at full back. Not great at all. Still no need to go jumping off any cliffs yet, first game v a decent side as you say.

By the way, sorry I never messaged you back, I totally forgot. It was fantastic by the way, really appreciate it.

[Sadders]

Harsh on Butler. Whilst he has a lot of 'footballing deficiencies' he marshalled an excellent defence last season and was one of 2 or 3 players that single handedly kept us up the season before. He keeps a lot of good strikers at this level quiet and would have no problem getting a better side than us should we release him, something we can't say about a lot of our other players once you get rid of Flo. Agreed he wasn't great today, but Chris Brown is a handful and Im not convinced on the players to his right Holden/Purkiss. I see that Holden hasn't done anything wrong of note yet, but things previous stats dont lie. Released from RELEGATED Chesterfield, then released from RELEGATED Rochdale both teams who had very poor defensive records last season - now all of a sudden compared to last season the defence looks ropey as hell. More than a co-incidence surely? Lancashire was never played because his marking and positioning was poor, he didnt do a lot of note wrong but the stats said our defence was worse on paper when he was in it.

Purkiss looks woeful, Far worse than Lee Beevers. Beevers was better defensively, quicker and could at least try and cross the ball. All I've seen from Purkiss is a lack of agility, the pace of a pensioner, poor crossing ability, allowing his man to get crosses and shots off from the wing after cutting in and a general sense of apathy when he's on the ball.

Look across the squad.

Sadler or Chambers = Sadler.
Smith or Holden = Smith
Smith or Downing = Smith
Macken or Grigg = Macken
Hurst or Baxendale = Hurst
Nicholls or Paterson = Close either way (I'd rather have Nicholls in the strike force at the moment with the way Grigg's playing)
Ledesma - - > Any attacking player we have bar flo.

Stats dont lie. League 2 budget, League 2 fanbase - League 2 team. We've got a worse team than we had this time last year and look where they ended up.
Today was positive going forward, for 30 minutes. The rest was garbage, despite good possession did we ever look threatening? Nope. Did we force Woods into copious saves? Nope - I can barely remember one.

One thing of note for Grof. He seems to have this off his line issue. Last season the Stevenage equaliser in the 1-1 home draw came from a long distance shot where If Grof was 5 or 6 yards further back he'd have tipped it over. Today he was caught of his line for the 2nd and the 3rd goal he'd have saved if he was on his line. Im all for Grof being the future, but he does flap a lot and their is rare moments in the man. He needs to solidify a bit - without being harsh todays goalkeeping performance was the worst of any keeper since the Jon Brain debacle at Rochdale - but Im sure he'l recover as he's a much better keeper.

Just to add a summary Im not being overally negative, Im just adding some balance and realism. Anyone that thinks the main aim of this season isn't too finish outside the relegation zone on goal difference is insane. The pundits think it, other fans are laughing at our squad, the bookies think we're down and I rather suspect most other players in the division are excited to fill their boots against us. If we stay up this season, on a tiny budget with some players that have woeful CV's like Baxendale, Purkiss, Featherstone, Brandy, Downing etc It'l be Smith's best achievement since he joined us - bar non.