Doncaster Rovers (H) - 18/08/12 League 1

[OldPenkSaddler]

This is totally Smith's team now.

He has recruited a hodge-podge of makeshift,cheap,lightweight, near midgets completely bereft of any physicality or presence in midfield or attack. It was a bit Men v Boys yesterday.

You can pass in pretty patterns all day but without an end product it is pointless. Why play two 'wingers' when they have no-one to cross to?

We need 11 Sodje's.

Oldham will be more of a true test. IMHO they have a poor squad. If we get turned over badly there we can turn the lights off now.

[Acuman]

Let's not get carried away, opening day results often prove misleading and I am quiet positive but there are issues to resolve.

Grof bad day at the office needs to move on, but has today effected his confidence

Defence jury out Holden and Butler need time to settle as a partnership as does the whole of the defence, hesitation between Pukiss lead to the third goal for example. Full backs are asked to push forward and wide, to bring in Stewart and Chambers would go a long way to stabilisation of the defence,as well as bringing in more experience

Holding midfield players with full backs pushing on these players are critical to protecting the defence and regaining the ball. Both have done well, but it was interesting that one of these players wasn't substituted I believe that neither Featherstone or Chambers could cope with the role as an individual player.Both benefit from working mainly one side of the pitch. The issue is can they provide the muscle to stop our midfield been bullied. I think DS sees Taundry as back up to Chambers and Featherstone more than full back, lb and rb cover been a bonus

The creative three, Flo, Paterson, Hemmings, the key to us scoring this season and they have as much creative flare to do the job, movement is good although couple of occasions it went pear shaped, that will improve with more games played. The issue is all the work is outside the box, not enough players making runs into the box, Chambers did one and was totally unmarked and was unlucky with the finish. There is also a lack of height in these three which is a factor.

Forward line Grigg played to feet no problem, but will not win a lot of headers thrown up, needs not to be pushed around so much someone give him some videos of Shearer or even how Buckley pushed back then moved forward to take the ball with chest thigh etc, an improvement can be coached. However the query I have is DS could have decided that he wants his striker not big but with lots of movement, and to be fair Grigg pulls away quiet well but this does mean he isn't in position to get into the box. Perhaps if he got less involved in the build up on the edge of the box and more involved in find the right run into the box we would be more productive in front of goal.

In general a good step forward but we need to resolve the full back situation, we need to get Mantom in on loan, Flo is getting to some great positions but nobody is on the same wavelength. We need to coach Grigg and get a striker who can play that role in to teach him and get us goals this season. System of play is good but we need to move the ball quicker we kept it well in both the last games but allowed teams to put up two banks of four which means our four attacking players have less space.

What will be interesting will be to see how we play away and how it works on bigger pitches
I would say so far 7/10 which is an improvement on last season's 4/10 but what happens next will be key, no new players and we will be struggling the final tweak and we could be comfortable in mid table.

[Codsall Saddler]

Obviously a disappointing result and aspects of the performance were poor, but I don't feel despondent. We played some good stuff and for the twenty minutes or so between the first and second goals were in control. The formation and method look sound and we have players that want the ball and look OK with it. However, we didn't carry enough of a goal threat and all 3 goals were avoidable. We also look a bit lightweight and teams will soon realise that. Felt for Grigg as he was isolated and fighting against 2 giants. The attacking midfielders need to be closer to him. We also need to move the ball more quickly to use the speed of that we have in Hemmings, Flo, etc. Thought Adam Chambers was MOM and looked like the player we thought we'd signed last season.

[ChopperWFC]

After sleeping on this first result I think Smith has a real problem here. If he gets a big burly target man in , which I too have called for we risk changing our new footballing style as it will be perhaps too much of a temptation especially if things not going well to lump it. But if we stick to what we have and how we play I wonder if our squad will fall short in terms of quality. Either way still don't think we have or will be able to get a fifteen to twenty goal man that is needed for any side to get into a safe top half finish which is what we should be aiming for. The budget just won't allow it would seem. After two games I really don't know what to make of it , I certainly feel more optomistic but this could just be because it's a relief to see some passing football at last but in this league of organised physical six footers will that be enough ??
Over to you Deano ..... Or should that be over to you R O 'Kelly ? :?

[Cheesebag]

We Missed a Chris Brown yesterday (not the woman beater one)

He did a muscular hold the ball up job for them yesyerday. Flo played too far forward and couldnt dictate the play. xxx

[Graydon48]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned their second goal was a fluke not a Beckham type wonder goal. If you look at it closely he looks up , sees Brown well foward to his left and that who he is aiming for but slightly miss hits it. Wonder strike my arse. Let's not big up Doncaster they looked ok but a lot on this board seem to have gone into Chris Hutchings "there or there about" mode.

[Acuman]

A reporter on football league show said one of donnys players had tweeted that it was a cross field ball gone wrong :oops:

[Ancient Moaner]

A reporter on football league show said one of donnys players had tweeted that it was a cross field ball gone wrong :oops:

Note that we are also the favourites for bottom place.....without a striker that's a certainty, everyone is tending to forget that failing to hit the back of the net often enough has been our downfall for the past few seasons...yet still we do nothing...watched the Footy League show this afternoon, and I was depressed as hell, watching so many players out there that are SO much better than we have. I know it's the 'little old Worsul' syndrome...but why do we always end up with tat?

Still I'll be at Boundary Park on Tuesday night screamin me bloomin head off and hoping for a miracle, but, as oldpenk put it above, if we are mullered there too, we are in for some embarrassing moments, engulfed at the bottom.

[latviancheese]

A reporter on football league show said one of donnys players had tweeted that it was a cross field ball gone wrong :oops:

It was Billy Sharp tweeting that Mr Cotterill had admitted to him that it was a shanked diagonal cross for Kyle Bennett.

[mossa]

First time i've been able to read comments since yesterday and I can't believe how much doom and gloom there is on here. From what I have read from a lot of comments we may as well give up now and accept relegation which is ridiculous. I thought Doncaster were a very efficient team with a solid defence and a strong experienced attack. I would be surprised if they don't make top 6 this season.
The main problem I agree is with Grigg, he just doesn't seem the player to suit this system. He is neither strong, quick or a natural finisher. I watched him closely yesterday, can't fault his effort but the lack of quality was clear to see. I have a feeling Deano isn't going to sign anyone up front which I think is crazy but if this is the case I'd prefer he play Bowerman, I thought he did okay when he came. I also have question marks over Holden and Purkiss at the back but I will reserve judgement until I have seen more of them.
On the positive side I like the system we are playing and I thought Hemmings looks a real prospect. Chambers seems to play better with Flo in the team as I thought he did last season until he got injured, Hopefully a win on Tuesday might cheer some supporters up or not as some seem more pleased to moan. UTS

[stig231]

Not sure we necessarily need a target man up front , more someone with experience or nous, to simply do the right things at the right times.

I thought we lacked it last week when in the 2nd half we got into a few really good positions in the last 20 mins to kill off Brentford although we probably got away with that by playing against 10 men. But yesterday two of our half chances was Paterson 1st half , Baxendale ? 2nd half who had clear sights on goal about 12 yards out but went for near the post and screwed them horribly well wide. For their 1st goal , and as weak as it was and that obviously Grof should have held it , at least Paynter gave Grof the chance of spilling it to Brown by aiming across goal. Its simple , but unspectacular things like that make a difference over a season.

I do wonder sometimes whether managers and coaches get too wrapped up in technical stuff and miss the bleedin obvious. Their giant no 5 was booked after 4 mins so you would think with Flo, Paterson and Hemmings all quick and capable of running at defenders that they might have been asked to just get the ball and run at said no 5 to induce a foul and 2nd yellow , or maybe even try a few balls in behind to use their pace. Nope , he had a fairly comfy last 85 mins watching everything being played in front of him or in the air.

In a way I was more disappointed with the 2nd half than the 1st. As many have said I thought we played some good stuff 1st half , albeit looking a bit toothless. But the 2nd half we just never got going enough to put them under any sort of pressure. I cant imagine us , at 2-0 up away from home , having as easy a ride as we gave Donny. Athough 4-2-3-1 looks the right formation with the players we have got , it seems more suited to playing away than trying to dictate a game either at home or trying to come back from 1 or 2 down.

As for the newbies , I didnt really think any of the back 4 did that much wrong individually , although Purkiss was caught upfield for their 3rd goal you can't really blame him for trying to getting forward when you're 2-0 down at home. Should somebody have been covering in behind?

Chambers seems more than capable , would like to see at right back with hopefully Stewart at left back , or maybe Benning?
Holden seems steady but not sure that him and Butler will be a good pairing , maybe too similar.

Ain't really sure why but I liked the look of Featherstone. He seems ok at just sitting in front of the back 4 , a bit like a Taundry...but with discipline and a bit of ability to pass the ball. He played the pass of the match for me in the first half from the edge of our box to set up a breakway for us from a Donny corner. Some have said he takes too long to think about passing... if you were being positive you could call it confidence or composure.

Hemmings looks lively and a threat although thats based more on Brentford game than yesterday.
Brandy had one great run, done his hamstring and that was that.
Baxendale seems neat and tidy but not sure where he would fit into a starting 11 , maybe one to bring on to help us keep the ball to protect a lead towards the end of a game...hopefully Tuesday :)

[WFC_Rob]

In a way I was more disappointed with the 2nd half than the 1st. As many have said I thought we played some good stuff 1st half , albeit looking a bit toothless. But the 2nd half we just never got going enough to put them under any sort of pressure. I cant imagine us , at 2-0 up away from home , having as easy a ride as we gave Donny. Athough 4-2-3-1 looks the right formation with the players we have got , it seems more suited to playing away than trying to dictate a game either at home or trying to come back from 1 or 2 down.

Some very sensible comments in your report to be fair.

Looking at the quote above, I completely agree - Donny didn't have to work hard to hold their lead. Having said that though, I think Smith recognised the fact that a defeat was on the cards and with another game on Tuesday, he wanted to keep Hemmings and Paterson fresh.

I can also see where you're coming from with the formation. The problem is, until we sign that elusive striker, I don't think we can genuinely consider playing a different system. It would be useful to be able to swicth to a 4-4-2 as we did yesterday, but with a bit more of a presence up there.

[fatboyslim]

First time i've been able to read comments since yesterday and I can't believe how much doom and gloom there is on here. From what I have read from a lot of comments we may as well give up now and accept relegation which is ridiculous. I thought Doncaster were a very efficient team with a solid defence and a strong experienced attack. I would be surprised if they don't make top 6 this season.
The main problem I agree is with Grigg, he just doesn't seem the player to suit this system. He is neither strong, quick or a natural finisher. I watched him closely yesterday, can't fault his effort but the lack of quality was clear to see. I have a feeling Deano isn't going to sign anyone up front which I think is crazy but if this is the case I'd prefer he play Bowerman, I thought he did okay when he came. I also have question marks over Holden and Purkiss at the back but I will reserve judgement until I have seen more of them.
On the positive side I like the system we are playing and I thought Hemmings looks a real prospect. Chambers seems to play better with Flo in the team as I thought he did last season until he got injured, Hopefully a win on Tuesday might cheer some supporters up or not as some seem more pleased to moan. UTS

Obviously entitled to your opinion Mossa but in relation to your comment about Grigg and his 'lack of quality being clear to see' are you able to clarify what you mean? The whole team struggled on Sat against a team that was hugely physical and by far the biggest in League 1. I am sure he won't come up against another centre back pairing of 6'5'' and 6'7''. Bowerman did very little when he came on except a speculative and weak left footed shot that looped into the keepers arms from 25 yards out. Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game. He was looking to make runs in behind which often weren't picked out due to Purkiss being a little slow at releasing the ball. The whole of the 2nd half saw him having to deal with high balls which he had no chance of winning as our defence decided to give up trying to play football and resort to the usual panic and lump it forward. I think this had a lot to do with the fact that Donny sat back as they had the 3 points in the bag. By the last 20 mins I think our players tired quickly as they had been working hard all game against a good passing side to try and claw back 2 goals which were gimmes effectively. I think a target man would be a good signing but even someone in the mould of a strong 6'2'' type would have struggled on Sat against those beasts. Not a great game by any means but to say he lacks quality and it is clear to see seems a bit off. He did well against Brentford the week before and the way we played on Sat would have seen us beat a number of other teams in League 1.

[coventriansaddler]

I have to say.......if Donny are the yardstick for promotion then we arnt far off! BBC shows we had 60% possesion and three times as many corners. The difference was a little inexperience from Groff and a cutting edge in the box, which I beleive will come with more time.

If anything I think the level of performance went up from the Brentford game and I beleive if we play that well against Oldham we will win, simple. I think we fashioned more chances in the first 17 mins on saturday than we did in entire games last season. We have definatley improved from last season and on another day it could easily have been us who won 3-0.


Featherstone again was a class above in always finding space, Hemmings looked very capable and Holden very solid. Dean Smith has signed some real quality.

[tinned]

“Everyone says I need a big centre-forward but I would have needed a 6ft 7in forward to play against their big centre-halves on Saturday

Read more: http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/oth ... z245WrphLF

I really think Deano is writing his own resignation letter with this decision. We play some nice football but without someone up top, stopping it come straight back at us I fear it could undo all the good work we do to get there.

[WarsawPact]

Reminded me of matches from several seasons under Alen Buckley.
Not the all-conquering 4th Division runners-up; nor the League Cup semi-reaching team; nor even the 'did-that-match-really-just-happen' team of his last season in charge.
I'm thinking more of the 'annual-fight-against-promotion' teams - very short players, nice passing and toothless up front.

[4143]

Being good at football is scoring more goals than your opponent. Everything else is just garnish.

With the above in mind, I can't envisage how losing 0-3 is objectively a good performance.

[Darth Vader]

“Everyone says I need a big centre-forward but I would have needed a 6ft 7in forward to play against their big centre-halves on Saturday

Read more: http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/oth ... z245WrphLF

What a soft comment, you don't need to match their height exactly, just need someone with a bit of presence, Grigg was lost all game, well an truly in the CB's pockets.

I've got a feeling he'll be changing his tune soon enough when the forward line isn't performing at all and frequently getting out-muscled.

[tinned]

“Everyone says I need a big centre-forward but I would have needed a 6ft 7in forward to play against their big centre-halves on Saturday

Read more: http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/oth ... z245WrphLF

What a soft comment, you don't need to match their height exactly, just need someone with a bit of presence, Grigg was lost all game, well an truly in the CB's pockets.

I've got a feeling he'll be changing his tune soon enough when the forward line isn't performing at all and frequently getting out-muscled.

Exactly. nobody is talking about a man mountain, just someone that can put his back to the defenders and shield the ball for a few seconds. Maken was great at that and he's hardly mammoth is he?

[Optimistic]

I have to say.......if Donny are the yardstick for promotion then we arnt far off! BBC shows we had 60% possesion and three times as many corners. The difference was a little inexperience from Groff and a cutting edge in the box, which I beleive will come with more time.

If anything I think the level of performance went up from the Brentford game and I beleive if we play that well against Oldham we will win, simple. I think we fashioned more chances in the first 17 mins on saturday than we did in entire games last season. We have definatley improved from last season and on another day it could easily have been us who won 3-0.


Featherstone again was a class above in always finding space, Hemmings looked very capable and Holden very solid. Dean Smith has signed some real quality.

I think this is spot on. It's a new side, fairly young and I believe that the performances will improve as they get more used to playing this system and together. With some slick play and a few wins the confidence will go through the roof.

I have said it before and will say it again, I hated watching the hoof ball in the past, which came straight back at us and it's a pleasure to watch us keeping possession.

At the end of the day they were lucky to get 3 goals and we were unlucky not to. That says it all really and I don't think for one minute we are the finished product so I am still Optimistic.

[Bernie]

Despite the result I think that during most of the match we played better against Doncaster than we did against Brentford.

The midfield of two defensive - Chambers and Featherstone - and three attacking (as long as one is Cuvelier) worked well. I thought that Featherstone and Hemmings both again looked like decent signings. However playing five in midfield needs a lone striker who can compete for the ball even when out numbered by the defence, win the ball, and hold on to it. Unfortunately we do not have a forward like that at the club.

I am still very concerned by the lack of quality in our defence. James Chambers is a good player but should not really play on the left.

[mossa]

Obviously entitled to your opinion Mossa but in relation to your comment about Grigg and his 'lack of quality being clear to see' are you able to clarify what you mean? The whole team struggled on Sat against a team that was hugely physical and by far the biggest in League 1. I am sure he won't come up against another centre back pairing of 6'5'' and 6'7''. Bowerman did very little when he came on except a speculative and weak left footed shot that looped into the keepers arms from 25 yards out. Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game. He was looking to make runs in behind which often weren't picked out due to Purkiss being a little slow at releasing the ball. The whole of the 2nd half saw him having to deal with high balls which he had no chance of winning as our defence decided to give up trying to play football and resort to the usual panic and lump it forward. I think this had a lot to do with the fact that Donny sat back as they had the 3 points in the bag. By the last 20 mins I think our players tired quickly as they had been working hard all game against a good passing side to try and claw back 2 goals which were gimmes effectively. I think a target man would be a good signing but even someone in the mould of a strong 6'2'' type would have struggled on Sat against those beasts. Not a great game by any means but to say he lacks quality and it is clear to see seems a bit off. He did well against Brentford the week before and the way we played on Sat would have seen us beat a number of other teams in League 1.

I agree with you to some extent, Grigg was never going to compete with those strikers for strength, that would be impossible with the height/weight difference. I also agree that Grigg did make some runs off the defenders and he did put a shift in but the problem is he isn't blessed with pace either. I honestly think we would have been better with Brandy up there at least his pace might have caused them a few problems. Where I do disagree with you is when you said "Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game". I barely seen him on the ball all game and when he did he was shoved off it most of the time. While he is picked though I will support the lad unlinke some of the fans. Unlike you I also thought Bowerman looked okay and when he came on and looked more dangerous than Grigg. I would love for Grigg to prove me wrong and hopefully against poorer opposition he will score a few.

[fatboyslim]

Obviously entitled to your opinion Mossa but in relation to your comment about Grigg and his 'lack of quality being clear to see' are you able to clarify what you mean? The whole team struggled on Sat against a team that was hugely physical and by far the biggest in League 1. I am sure he won't come up against another centre back pairing of 6'5'' and 6'7''. Bowerman did very little when he came on except a speculative and weak left footed shot that looped into the keepers arms from 25 yards out. Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game. He was looking to make runs in behind which often weren't picked out due to Purkiss being a little slow at releasing the ball. The whole of the 2nd half saw him having to deal with high balls which he had no chance of winning as our defence decided to give up trying to play football and resort to the usual panic and lump it forward. I think this had a lot to do with the fact that Donny sat back as they had the 3 points in the bag. By the last 20 mins I think our players tired quickly as they had been working hard all game against a good passing side to try and claw back 2 goals which were gimmes effectively. I think a target man would be a good signing but even someone in the mould of a strong 6'2'' type would have struggled on Sat against those beasts. Not a great game by any means but to say he lacks quality and it is clear to see seems a bit off. He did well against Brentford the week before and the way we played on Sat would have seen us beat a number of other teams in League 1.

I agree with you to some extent, Grigg was never going to compete with those strikers for strength, that would be impossible with the height/weight difference. I also agree that Grigg did make some runs off the defenders and he did put a shift in but the problem is he isn't blessed with pace either. I honestly think we would have been better with Brandy up there at least his pace might have caused them a few problems. Where I do disagree with you is when you said "Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game". I barely seen him on the ball all game and when he did he was shoved off it most of the time. While he is picked though I will support the lad unlinke some of the fans. Unlike you I also thought Bowerman looked okay and when he came on and looked more dangerous than Grigg. I would love for Grigg to prove me wrong and hopefully against poorer opposition he will score a few.

Fair enough with some of your comments but obviously you didn't watch him that closely as you would have seen him on the ball a fair bit and linking with the midfielders. It was just that they didn't have that final quality on delivery or finishing which was the problem. Also not sure what you saw in Bowerman, he had very little to do and did nothing of note to be justified as dangerous.

[IHTC.]

Obviously entitled to your opinion Mossa but in relation to your comment about Grigg and his 'lack of quality being clear to see' are you able to clarify what you mean? The whole team struggled on Sat against a team that was hugely physical and by far the biggest in League 1. I am sure he won't come up against another centre back pairing of 6'5'' and 6'7''. Bowerman did very little when he came on except a speculative and weak left footed shot that looped into the keepers arms from 25 yards out. Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game. He was looking to make runs in behind which often weren't picked out due to Purkiss being a little slow at releasing the ball. The whole of the 2nd half saw him having to deal with high balls which he had no chance of winning as our defence decided to give up trying to play football and resort to the usual panic and lump it forward. I think this had a lot to do with the fact that Donny sat back as they had the 3 points in the bag. By the last 20 mins I think our players tired quickly as they had been working hard all game against a good passing side to try and claw back 2 goals which were gimmes effectively. I think a target man would be a good signing but even someone in the mould of a strong 6'2'' type would have struggled on Sat against those beasts. Not a great game by any means but to say he lacks quality and it is clear to see seems a bit off. He did well against Brentford the week before and the way we played on Sat would have seen us beat a number of other teams in League 1.

I agree with you to some extent, Grigg was never going to compete with those strikers for strength, that would be impossible with the height/weight difference. I also agree that Grigg did make some runs off the defenders and he did put a shift in but the problem is he isn't blessed with pace either. I honestly think we would have been better with Brandy up there at least his pace might have caused them a few problems. Where I do disagree with you is when you said "Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game". I barely seen him on the ball all game and when he did he was shoved off it most of the time. While he is picked though I will support the lad unlinke some of the fans. Unlike you I also thought Bowerman looked okay and when he came on and looked more dangerous than Grigg. I would love for Grigg to prove me wrong and hopefully against poorer opposition he will score a few.

Fair enough with some of your comments but obviously you didn't watch him that closely as you would have seen him on the ball a fair bit and linking with the midfielders. It was just that they didn't have that final quality on delivery or finishing which was the problem. Also not sure what you saw in Bowerman, he had very little to do and did nothing of note to be justified as dangerous.

He actually had an effort on goal, ok not the greatest of efforts but an effort nonetheless, so did Hemmings, Cuvelier and Paterson

[fatboyslim]

Obviously entitled to your opinion Mossa but in relation to your comment about Grigg and his 'lack of quality being clear to see' are you able to clarify what you mean? The whole team struggled on Sat against a team that was hugely physical and by far the biggest in League 1. I am sure he won't come up against another centre back pairing of 6'5'' and 6'7''. Bowerman did very little when he came on except a speculative and weak left footed shot that looped into the keepers arms from 25 yards out. Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game. He was looking to make runs in behind which often weren't picked out due to Purkiss being a little slow at releasing the ball. The whole of the 2nd half saw him having to deal with high balls which he had no chance of winning as our defence decided to give up trying to play football and resort to the usual panic and lump it forward. I think this had a lot to do with the fact that Donny sat back as they had the 3 points in the bag. By the last 20 mins I think our players tired quickly as they had been working hard all game against a good passing side to try and claw back 2 goals which were gimmes effectively. I think a target man would be a good signing but even someone in the mould of a strong 6'2'' type would have struggled on Sat against those beasts. Not a great game by any means but to say he lacks quality and it is clear to see seems a bit off. He did well against Brentford the week before and the way we played on Sat would have seen us beat a number of other teams in League 1.

I agree with you to some extent, Grigg was never going to compete with those strikers for strength, that would be impossible with the height/weight difference. I also agree that Grigg did make some runs off the defenders and he did put a shift in but the problem is he isn't blessed with pace either. I honestly think we would have been better with Brandy up there at least his pace might have caused them a few problems. Where I do disagree with you is when you said "Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game". I barely seen him on the ball all game and when he did he was shoved off it most of the time. While he is picked though I will support the lad unlinke some of the fans. Unlike you I also thought Bowerman looked okay and when he came on and looked more dangerous than Grigg. I would love for Grigg to prove me wrong and hopefully against poorer opposition he will score a few.

Fair enough with some of your comments but obviously you didn't watch him that closely as you would have seen him on the ball a fair bit and linking with the midfielders. It was just that they didn't have that final quality on delivery or finishing which was the problem. Also not sure what you saw in Bowerman, he had very little to do and did nothing of note to be justified as dangerous.

He actually had an effort on goal, ok not the greatest of efforts but an effort nonetheless, so did Hemmings, Cuvelier and Paterson

Not always the best option to waste possession with a rubbish effort from 25 yards out. Paterson does this too much and arguably should have passed when he had the best chance of the game on Sat and smashed it wide.

[IHTC.]

Obviously entitled to your opinion Mossa but in relation to your comment about Grigg and his 'lack of quality being clear to see' are you able to clarify what you mean? The whole team struggled on Sat against a team that was hugely physical and by far the biggest in League 1. I am sure he won't come up against another centre back pairing of 6'5'' and 6'7''. Bowerman did very little when he came on except a speculative and weak left footed shot that looped into the keepers arms from 25 yards out. Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game. He was looking to make runs in behind which often weren't picked out due to Purkiss being a little slow at releasing the ball. The whole of the 2nd half saw him having to deal with high balls which he had no chance of winning as our defence decided to give up trying to play football and resort to the usual panic and lump it forward. I think this had a lot to do with the fact that Donny sat back as they had the 3 points in the bag. By the last 20 mins I think our players tired quickly as they had been working hard all game against a good passing side to try and claw back 2 goals which were gimmes effectively. I think a target man would be a good signing but even someone in the mould of a strong 6'2'' type would have struggled on Sat against those beasts. Not a great game by any means but to say he lacks quality and it is clear to see seems a bit off. He did well against Brentford the week before and the way we played on Sat would have seen us beat a number of other teams in League 1.

I agree with you to some extent, Grigg was never going to compete with those strikers for strength, that would be impossible with the height/weight difference. I also agree that Grigg did make some runs off the defenders and he did put a shift in but the problem is he isn't blessed with pace either. I honestly think we would have been better with Brandy up there at least his pace might have caused them a few problems. Where I do disagree with you is when you said "Grigg was very neat and tidy and didn't really misplace a pass for the whole game". I barely seen him on the ball all game and when he did he was shoved off it most of the time. While he is picked though I will support the lad unlinke some of the fans. Unlike you I also thought Bowerman looked okay and when he came on and looked more dangerous than Grigg. I would love for Grigg to prove me wrong and hopefully against poorer opposition he will score a few.

Fair enough with some of your comments but obviously you didn't watch him that closely as you would have seen him on the ball a fair bit and linking with the midfielders. It was just that they didn't have that final quality on delivery or finishing which was the problem. Also not sure what you saw in Bowerman, he had very little to do and did nothing of note to be justified as dangerous.

He actually had an effort on goal, ok not the greatest of efforts but an effort nonetheless, so did Hemmings, Cuvelier and Paterson

Not always the best option to waste possession with a rubbish effort from 25 yards out. Paterson does this too much and arguably should have passed when he had the best chance of the game on Sat and smashed it wide.

so your defending the fact that Grigg may have made a pass or two but did not have a single effort on goal considering he's our main striker?

Agree Paterson was not at the races Saturday but atleast at times he looks like he may get a goal or two with his movement, Grigg is like a carthorse, which is why its so easy for defenders to mark him out of the game.

[fatboyslim]

Not always the best option to waste possession with a rubbish effort from 25 yards out. Paterson does this too much and arguably should have passed when he had the best chance of the game on Sat and smashed it wide.

so your defending the fact that Grigg may have made a pass or two but did not have a single effort on goal considering he's our main striker?

Agree Paterson was not at the races Saturday but atleast at times he looks like he may get a goal or two with his movement, Grigg is like a carthorse, which is why its so easy for defenders to mark him out of of the game.

It depends how we play and at present we are playing a fluid forward formation so regardless of who shoots it doesn't matter as long as they are in a good scoring chance. We created minimal chances on sat and none were created for Grigg. Did this mean he didn't work hard and try and get into a scoring position? No.

Did he play badly on the weekend or did we lose confidence due to 2 goalkeeping errors which spoilt our hard work and saw us resort to the long ball which is totally the wrong way to playing his the furthest striker forward? If he had played badly aside from the aerial issue then I would say so but he didn't.

Grigg is not like a cart horse and they only mark him of the game when he has to cope with the high ball. We have been over this enough now so as we agreed let's wait until the season is well under way before we resume our difference of opinion about Grigg.

[IHTC.]

Not always the best option to waste possession with a rubbish effort from 25 yards out. Paterson does this too much and arguably should have passed when he had the best chance of the game on Sat and smashed it wide.

so your defending the fact that Grigg may have made a pass or two but did not have a single effort on goal considering he's our main striker?

Agree Paterson was not at the races Saturday but atleast at times he looks like he may get a goal or two with his movement, Grigg is like a carthorse, which is why its so easy for defenders to mark him out of of the game.

It depends how we play and at present we are playing a fluid forward formation so regardless of who shoots it doesn't matter as long as they are in a good scoring chance. We created minimal chances on sat and none were created for Grigg. Did this mean he didn't work hard and try and get into a scoring position? No.

Did he play badly on the weekend or did we lose confidence due to 2 goalkeeping errors which spoilt our hard work and saw us resort to the long ball which is totally the wrong way to playing his the furthest striker forward? If he had played badly aside from the aerial issue then I would say so but he didn't.

Grigg is not like a cart horse and they only mark him of the game when he has to cope with the high ball. We have been over this enough now so as we agreed let's wait until the season is well under way before we resume our difference of opinion about Grigg.

Hopefully by then he will have proved me wrong

[Wyrley_saddler]

I feel as if we have the making of a decent side but our main problem is goal scoring. Grigg is obviously not the answer with the style of play Deano wants to enforce. I think if we could get a decent striker in, maybe that young lad from Baggies someone mentioned (Berahino?), then I think we'd have a side that could comfortably stay up in this division rather than struggle over the safety line like the last couple of seasons.

[fatboyslim]

I feel as if we have the making of a decent side but our main problem is goal scoring. Grigg is obviously not the answer with the style of play Deano wants to enforce. I think if we could get a decent striker in, maybe that young lad from Baggies someone mentioned (Berahino?), then I think we'd have a side that could comfortably stay up in this division rather than struggle over the safety line like the last couple of seasons.

Depends if they resort to long ball like they did in the 2nd half on Sat. That would be no good for Berahino as he is a similar size to Grigg if not smaller. Only 1 game in......create the chances for Grigg and I think he will score. 6/7 games in then if no goals scored it is obviously no working and time to look at other options.