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Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Reports and reaction from the 2011-2012 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
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longdogs
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Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:45 am

saddlerken wrote:What happened to wingers getting to the byline and whipping cross's in?

when did we last have someone capable of getting on the end of a cross if they did?

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:51 am

longdogs wrote:
saddlerken wrote:What happened to wingers getting to the byline and whipping cross's in?

when did we last have someone capable of getting on the end of a cross if they did?


Well, wouldn't it be nice for our chance starved forwards such a luxury!

One of the reasons I haven't joined in on the hammering of Grigg on the terraces is because how can any forward at our club be judged with such a meagre supply?

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:57 am

saddlerken wrote:It's a great shame that the level of expectation of the average Walsall fan is now a relegation battle and satisfaction of a 20th place finish

#demoralising


Quite true. This was clearly demonstrated at yesterdays match by the chanting and celebration of our dismal season of survival and the glorying of our 'Ginger Mourinho ...give us a wave'. There appears to be an acceptance of poor players [crap player x {insert any one of 7 players yesterday} had one good run today when he beat a man or had a shot at goal which went 10 yds wide or passed the ball successfully two times in a row] which results in unconditional approval of his inclusion in the team in any random position and endless contract extensions. Over heard comments at the ground and some posts on this board bare out this state of acceptance of the crap we've had to suffer with the usual excuses of budget.

I'm sure there were plenty of players Smith could have signed in the closed season that were undoubtedly better than the ones he chanced on and signed with his misguided view that he could make them 'realise their true potential' * Smiths words when he signed Hurst, Jarvis and Chambers on contract. He quite simply has got a clue about judging players, he doesn't know their best position eg Taundrey can ONLY play [if he must] at full back, he is not a winger/midfielder.

Why would anyone EXPECT us to be fighting a relegation battle?

The single most important person in ANY organisation is that of the manager. Get rid of Smith, he hasn't got a clue about identifying his squads strengths and weaknesses, he hasn't got a clue about signings, he hasn't got a clue about tactics, he cannot make poor players better by playing to their limited strengths and he comes across in every interview as someone who got put in the gardening class at school because he couldn't string an intelligent or insightful sentence together.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:03 am

saddlerken wrote:I should be clearer, most managers set up with a 4 man midfield, it's all they know really, but wide men should go forward as well as back up the full backs. I prefer our full backs to back up our wingers who in turn should be able to cross.

Taundry was our right winger yesterday and Nicholls on the left, it doesn't get worse than that in terms of quality. If either one of them is keeping Hurst out then Hurst should consider retirement from professional football.

PS, Sadler would be better on the wing than those pair.

What happened to wingers getting to the byline and whipping cross's in? If the manager can't/won't bring in someone who can then at least get them on the training ground attempting 1-2's/1 touch football/getting it wide quickly/stretching the opposition/overlapping full backs etc etc. Im sick of seeing players out of position. There can be no excuses.

Any good attacking play this season is because of Ledesma or Flo and a month long period a few weeks back is the only reason we are still a division 3 side


If you're talking personnel, I agree. Taundry isn't a winger and should be in the side as right-back or not at all. Nicholls isn't consistent enough, Hurst isn't good enough and Gnapka was a disaster. I think Patterson offers some hope, but the jury is still out. So, i think Dean would love to have wingers with flair who could get to the by-line and whip in wicked crosses, but I think it comes down to budget. Does he divert money away from the spine of the team to liven up the wings? If he does do that we might see some more exciting play but I'd also wager we'd lose games by more than the maximum two goal margin we've seen this season.

I think his priority will be central midfield and a centre-foward in the summer with fingers crossed that Patterson improves and yes, possibly that Nicholls forgets his own whinging about centre-forward being his natural position and gets on with developing himself into a more consistent winger. Not ideal, but when only around 4,000 Walsall fans could bother their arses for the most important game of the season, it is unfortunately the reality that any Walsall manager will have to deal with.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:13 am

PT wrote:
saddlerken wrote:I should be clearer, most managers set up with a 4 man midfield, it's all they know really, but wide men should go forward as well as back up the full backs. I prefer our full backs to back up our wingers who in turn should be able to cross.

Taundry was our right winger yesterday and Nicholls on the left, it doesn't get worse than that in terms of quality. If either one of them is keeping Hurst out then Hurst should consider retirement from professional football.

PS, Sadler would be better on the wing than those pair.

What happened to wingers getting to the byline and whipping cross's in? If the manager can't/won't bring in someone who can then at least get them on the training ground attempting 1-2's/1 touch football/getting it wide quickly/stretching the opposition/overlapping full backs etc etc. Im sick of seeing players out of position. There can be no excuses.

Any good attacking play this season is because of Ledesma or Flo and a month long period a few weeks back is the only reason we are still a division 3 side


If you're talking personnel, I agree. Taundry isn't a winger and should be in the side as right-back or not at all. Nicholls isn't consistent enough, Hurst isn't good enough and Gnapka was a disaster. I think Patterson offers some hope, but the jury is still out. So, i think Dean would love to have wingers with flair who could get to the by-line and whip in wicked crosses, but I think it comes down to budget. Does he divert money away from the spine of the team to liven up the wings? If he does do that we might see some more exciting play but I'd also wager we'd lose games by more than the maximum two goal margin we've seen this season.

I think his priority will be central midfield and a centre-foward in the summer with fingers crossed that Patterson improves and yes, possibly that Nicholls forgets his own whinging about centre-forward being his natural position and gets on with developing himself into a more consistent winger. Not ideal, but when only around 4,000 Walsall fans could bother their backsides for the most important game of the season, it is unfortunately the reality that any Walsall manager will have to deal with.


It's a reality any Walsall manager has to deal with, everyone knows this. Dean would have known this when he took the job. Lets face it, no one else was ever going to offer him a managers job.

Next season, he HAS to do better. By better I don't mean I expect a promotion push. Just start to cut out some of his repetetive errors, that cost us goals/games/points.

When you have a small budget, it is even more vital that you get things right first time. I am willing to let Chambers go as a decent attempt of a signing, he hasn't quite worked out, but I think there was a chance he could have. Gnapka the same, he was a gamble (that failed) but it could have gone the other way with him, and for what it's worth Smith should definitely have tried him up front, the way we played early in the season.

There is absolutely no excuse for Hurst and Jarvis though. I'm no football scout, but I am almost certain if you gave me the wages they are on to find two players in those positions, I could find two better. It would be hard not to, utter bilge both of them. Peterlin also, why sign him, to leave him on the bench most of the season? The reason being he isn't really good enough. Needs to do better this summer, but I doubt he will. Just to remake my point, Jarvis and Hurst aren't gambles that might work out, they are utter dross, that were always going to fail.

Smith has had patience from Walsall fans, by our own terrible standards of giving people a chance, he won't be afforded such a luxury next season, and I think at some point next season, unless he does things better than he has so far, he will be out the door. Whether that is a good or bad thing remains to be seen, but it is certainly what I see happening.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:17 am

PT wrote:Not ideal, but when only around 4,000 Walsall fans could bother their backsides for the most important game of the season, it is unfortunately the reality that any Walsall manager will have to deal with.


Will just have to agree to disagree on this one, this isn't the whole story in terms of what we have with regards our budget. Admire your optimism.

It's also not an excuse. More important than how much money we have to spend is the ability to identify and manage potential talent. There are hundreds of players out there, some proven and some with potential. A good manager would spot this potential and even more so, be able to manage, coach and send out the player with the correct instructions to achieve success.

Smith falls well short as proven this season and expecting improvement next season is wishful thinking.

I would like nothing more that Smith to prove me wrong but I'd rather not give him that chance. Ive seen enough!

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Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:22 am

saddlerken wrote:
longdogs wrote:
saddlerken wrote:What happened to wingers getting to the byline and whipping cross's in?

when did we last have someone capable of getting on the end of a cross if they did?


Well, wouldn't it be nice for our chance starved forwards such a luxury!

One of the reasons I haven't joined in on the hammering of Grigg on the terraces is because how can any forward at our club be judged with such a meagre supply?

Chicken and egg. What's the point of putting crosses in when no-one ever gets one end of them.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:25 am

If the winger is the egg then Im all for eggs :?

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:36 am

Blazing/SaddleKen, I'm not in massive disagreement. I won't be anywhere near as patient with Smith next season as I have this. Per my posts, I think his in-game management is awful and his signings questionable. I'd also add in to the pot that despite seeing him train with us for only one day, to leave Flo on the bench against Notts County behind Peterlin was bloody criminal and given that we rushed through the signing for that game (to the cost of his availability next week at MK) it could have cost us our status.

I'm just trying do nurdle out some glimmers of hope, some historical perspective and a bit of balance - must admit it's getting harder though. :D

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:15 am

if we could have kept o kelly it would have been huge you could see even in the warm ups the ideas he had were helping the players

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:22 am

Can't we just savour a day when the footballing gods conspired to keep us up, before predicting doom and gloom for next season?!

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:28 am

Guest wrote:Can't we just savour a day when the footballing gods conspired to keep us up, before predicting doom and gloom for next season?!


no mate ..this is UTS . negativity reigns.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:31 am

Guest wrote:Can't we just savour a day when the footballing gods conspired to keep us up, before predicting doom and gloom for next season?!


To put it in perspective, as chuffed as I am that we are staying up, it's hardly a reason for celebration. Celebrating not being as bad as Chesterfeild is quite wrong actually. Football gods have nothing to do with it either, if after 46 games, you are in the bottom 4, you certainly deserve to go down.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:10 pm

I don't get the adulation for failure.

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Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:34 pm

Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


"Adulation" is the wrong word. So is "failure".

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:37 pm

bangsection wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


"Adulation" is the wrong word. So is "failure".


Well Mr Bang, adulation means excessive praise or flattery and failure means a lack of success.... So...

Think I chose very well! :wink: :mrgreen:

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:02 pm

Saarland Saddler wrote:
bangsection wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


"Adulation" is the wrong word. So is "failure".


Well Mr Bang, adulation means excessive praise or flattery and failure means a lack of success.... So...

Think I chose very well! :wink: :mrgreen:

If failure means a (total) lack of success, then define success? Would defeat in the play-off final be success? Why? Which league position is automatically defined 'a success'? What happens if you miss that league place by one point.. is that failure? Are there degrees of failure?

This reductionist reasoning is totally frustrating. It seems that fans can't ever admit that something is just OK, players either have to be 'a genius' 'the best player in 10 years' (Ledesma) or 'terrible' 'pub footballer' (Nicholls). Surely somewhere in between is the more sensible answer? My guess is that if we'd finished 11th this season then the vast majority of fans would be logical enough to realise that we'd made decent progression. How far have we missed that mark by? Three wins. 9 more points this season and most people would be happy. That's not the worst season in living memory, it's a 4 or 5/10. Below par, not to be repeated, but with the possibility of improvement. I'm sorry that this doesn't give people the opportunity to have a grand moan, and oh how Walsall fans love a good moan, but it seems to me to be a more accurate reflection of the circumstances.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:32 pm

Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


if staying up is failure how would you define relegation

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:39 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:
bangsection wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


"Adulation" is the wrong word. So is "failure".


Well Mr Bang, adulation means excessive praise or flattery and failure means a lack of success.... So...

Think I chose very well! :wink: :mrgreen:

If failure means a (total) lack of success, then define success? Would defeat in the play-off final be success? Why? Which league position is automatically defined 'a success'? What happens if you miss that league place by one point.. is that failure? Are there degrees of failure?

This reductionist reasoning is totally frustrating. It seems that fans can't ever admit that something is just OK, players either have to be 'a genius' 'the best player in 10 years' (Ledesma) or 'terrible' 'pub footballer' (Nicholls). Surely somewhere in between is the more sensible answer? My guess is that if we'd finished 11th this season then the vast majority of fans would be logical enough to realise that we'd made decent progression. How far have we missed that mark by? Three wins. 9 more points this season and most people would be happy. That's not the worst season in living memory, it's a 4 or 5/10. Below par, not to be repeated, but with the possibility of improvement. I'm sorry that this doesn't give people the opportunity to have a grand moan, and oh how Walsall fans love a good moan, but it seems to me to be a more accurate reflection of the circumstances.


Spot on - the dividing line between success and failure is tiny. We are just three wins worse off than Hartlepool in 11th

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Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:13 pm

Saarland Saddler wrote:
bangsection wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


"Adulation" is the wrong word. So is "failure".


Well Mr Bang, adulation means excessive praise or flattery and failure means a lack of success.... So...

Think I chose very well! :wink: :mrgreen:


Adulation relates to people. So we must infer that you're referring to posters lavishly praising Dean Smith or the players. Haven't seen a lot of that on here to be honest. Just people glad we'll be playing in Division 3 rather than Division 4 next season.

If you didn't mean this then I'm afraid you used the wrong word!

As for "failure", I think Reg summed it up quite nicely.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:39 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:
bangsection wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


"Adulation" is the wrong word. So is "failure".


Well Mr Bang, adulation means excessive praise or flattery and failure means a lack of success.... So...

Think I chose very well! :wink: :mrgreen:

If failure means a (total) lack of success, then define success? Would defeat in the play-off final be success? Why? Which league position is automatically defined 'a success'? What happens if you miss that league place by one point.. is that failure? Are there degrees of failure?

This reductionist reasoning is totally frustrating. It seems that fans can't ever admit that something is just OK, players either have to be 'a genius' 'the best player in 10 years' (Ledesma) or 'terrible' 'pub footballer' (Nicholls). Surely somewhere in between is the more sensible answer? My guess is that if we'd finished 11th this season then the vast majority of fans would be logical enough to realise that we'd made decent progression. How far have we missed that mark by? Three wins. 9 more points this season and most people would be happy. That's not the worst season in living memory, it's a 4 or 5/10. Below par, not to be repeated, but with the possibility of improvement. I'm sorry that this doesn't give people the opportunity to have a grand moan, and oh how Walsall fans love a good moan, but it seems to me to be a more accurate reflection of the circumstances.





Spot on - the dividing line between success and failure is tiny. We are just three wins worse off than Hartlepool in 11th


mmm, 3 wins is an awful lot for a side that only won 9 games out of 45.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:47 pm

BarryWindham wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


if staying up is failure how would you define relegation

Success and failure are relative to (inter alia) your ambitions and aims. If your aim is staying up and you do, that's success. If your aim is the playoffs but you miss out, that's failure.
I leave UTSers to come up with their own aims for the club (and to speculate on the likely aims of the players, management and "owners" :? ).
Personally, I feel that, at a minimum, we should be aiming at the playoffs every season, so we ain't had a lot of success recently, but I still "celebrated" our "achievement" at staying up as I was pleased and relieved, delighted, even. However, at the same time I still felt disappointed, overall, at our season and at the anxiety I've been put through (= being a Walsall supporter!!)
Therefore: :D :(
More appropriately, perhaps we should think of seasons as being "excellent", "good", "poor", or "shoite/crape/disastrous/guano/unmentionable"*. :mrgreen:
This season would have to come into the "poor" category but it ain't quite been a disaster IMHO.
[NB Like Wigan, we haven't had the rub of the green or any favours from referees this year - quite the contrary (unless you count a couple of late goals from Nutts Scunthorpe and points from an occasional late fightback as "luck")]

*Choose your own guano simile.
Last edited by SWS1 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:49 pm

SWS1 wrote:
BarryWindham wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


if staying up is failure how would you define relegation

Success and failure are relative to (inter alia) your ambitions and aims. If your aim is staying up and you do, that's success. If your aim is the playoffs but you miss out, that's failure.
I leave UTSers to come up with their own aims for the club (and to speculate on the likely aims of the players, management and "owners" :? ).
Personally, I feel that, at a minimum, we should be aiming at the playoffs every season, so we ain't had a lot of success recently, but I still "celebrated" our "achievement" at staying up as I was pleased and relieved, delighted, even. However, at the same time I still felt disappointed, overall, at our season and at the anxiety I've been put through (= being a Walsall supporter!!)
Therefore: :D :(


I agree, I think it's quite sad that Walsall as a club, and now even it's supporters, seem happy to accept that avoiding relegation from division 3 is a good season. So that's the future? Sure I'll stick around, cos Walsall is in my blood, but I am never going to accept that we can't do better than this.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:53 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:mmm, 3 wins is an awful lot for a side that only won 9 games out of 45.

That's fair, I suppose it's the glass half-empty view of things. The games at Exeter, Rochdale and Sheffield United would be just three that we could easily have won but ended up with just one point. That's the thickness of the dividing line. However, constant failure to win away from home - only 3 away wins under Dean Smith ever - is not bad luck, it's bad management. The question is: how much do we have to improve to turn those 'if onlys' into Ray Graydon-esque routine away wins?

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:23 pm

The (failed) attempt to hoist some of the players onto shoulders was cringeworthy. Carrying players on shoulders for just about avoiding relegation??? What next? An open topped bus tour around the town?

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:18 pm

bangsection wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:
bangsection wrote:
Saarland Saddler wrote:I don't get the adulation for failure.


"Adulation" is the wrong word. So is "failure".


Well Mr Bang, adulation means excessive praise or flattery and failure means a lack of success.... So...

Think I chose very well! :wink: :mrgreen:


Adulation relates to people. So we must infer that you're referring to posters lavishly praising Dean Smith or the players. Haven't seen a lot of that on here to be honest. Just people glad we'll be playing in Division 3 rather than Division 4 next season.

If you didn't mean this then I'm afraid you used the wrong word!

As for "failure", I think Reg summed it up quite nicely.


I did mean that mate - you should have seen twitter! My gosh! Cringe!

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Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:42 pm

Saarland Saddler wrote:
I did mean that mate - you should have seen twitter! My gosh! Cringe!


Fair enough. I like to think of UTS as a cut above Twitter given the restrictions on cogent argument that naturally arise from being limited to 140 characters. Also isn't everyone on Twitter 12 years old? And by that I mean naturally positive and optimistic? Rather than the cynical old farts on here?

Still, Deen Smith is da best Walsall manger eva, FACT! We r stayin up! LOL.

;-)

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:46 pm

RT bangsection wrote:Still, Deen Smith is da best Walsall manger eva, FACT! We r stayin up! LOL.

#gingamorinio

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:13 pm

Welsh_Saddler wrote:Wycombe appear to have blown up big time..... now losing 3-4 in injury time :lol: :lol: :lol:


After about a thousand late goals scored by Wycombe it was so nice to see a side (for once) score a late goal AGAINST them to condemn them to the drop.How does that feel Wycombe?????? :lol:

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 28/4/12.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:48 pm

Willenhall Saddler wrote:
Welsh_Saddler wrote:Wycombe appear to have blown up big time..... now losing 3-4 in injury time :lol: :lol: :lol:


After about a thousand late goals scored by Wycombe it was so nice to see a side (for once) score a late goal AGAINST them to condemn them to the drop.How does that feel Wycombe?????? :lol:

There are other clubs I'd rather see regelated (sic) than Wykham... :wink:

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