Exeter City (A) League 1 Saturday 21/4/12.

[Duke]

Very disappointing , we are going to have to do it the hard way typical Walsall.

Still think we stay up .

[Walsall_Casual]

Crikey we seem to enjoy making hard work of things don't we! From what I understand our fantastic team spirit isn't quite as fantastic as it is portrayed. Let's hope we can get it sorted and focus on picking up the points required from Huddersfield and MK Dons.

[Darth Vader]

I still think we'll stay up.

Was a decent turnout, thought we'd break the 500 mark but still, loads of old faces about it seemed, all tanked, bit worst for wear myself. Ace.

fudge the wolves.

[chestersaddler]

Why not bring Lancashire on then? Leaving Smith out there, knowing that one more foul would see him off.

Smith must take responsibility for many things, but the referee made the mistake which led to the dismissal. All booked players are one foul away from being sent off, but it doesn't mean they should be taken off.

[Graydon48]

A lot of what Dean Smith said on the radio was correct. Manny Smith should never have been sent off - if anyone thought Beevers' second booking last week was harsh, then this was ten times worse. The referee was over officious and couldn't wait to send him off (Roger East is one of those perennially useless refs who is, like all refs, immune from the sack). I have no idea about the 'over the line' goal - it was at the other end and I couldn't see it.

However, the reason we lost the game was Dean Smith. Does anyone want to tot up how many times we have been pegged back from winning positions this season? Does anyone want to count the number of times he has made a baffling substitution and we've conceded soon after? He had two in-game decisions to make: how to react to Smith's first booking, and how to react to his second. The first was early on, we were up against a side that would play the ball into their strikers' feet and we were looking comfortable at 1-0 and 2-1. More than that, we were dominating. Why not bring Lancashire on then? Leaving Smith out there, knowing that one more foul would see him off, was asking for trouble. Then when the inevitable happened, we went into freefall.

Tactic 1: 4-4-1, with Macken up front by himself, Nicholls on the left, Hurst on the bench and Ledesma moved to the right. Sort of. But really he just hung around up front. This left Taundry (who up to that point had been impeccable) horribly exposed and outnumbered, leading to the next two goals. -- As an aside, if you want a man for a battle, don't ask Ledesma to put his hand up. He missed two sitters of the sort that if Jarvis had committed them, then UTS would be left seething with rage and was generally lightweight and ineffective, bar the lovely set-up for the second goal. But apparently he's some kind of genius :roll:

Tactic 2: 4-2-2-1, with Ledesma up front by himself, Westlake in at right-back, Nicholls back on the right wing, Taundry (!) on the left wing and Macken on the bench. Well, at least Smith realised that we needed to shore up our right-hand side. About 10 minutes too late though. I'm not sure Taundry will play as an attacking left-sided forward again.

Tactic 3: 4-1-2-2, with Grigg on up front for Taundry, supported by Cuvelier and Nicholls out wide, while Mantom is basically our only midfielder. At this point, no one knew what the blazes was going on and Exeter were running riot. They scored three after Smith was sent off but it could have been 7 or 8.

Of course, we knew that Exeter needed to win the game so were going to throw the kitchen sink at us. But 2-1 up away from home with 25 minutes left is not a hopeless situation. It is if you leave so many attacking players on the pitch and surrender. Credit to Cuvelier, who at least tried to show some fight when we went behind, even if his eagerness was misplaced in holding on to the ball for too long most of the time. The rest of them just hid.

I'm not in the Smith out camp per se, but he sure does need an experienced head alongside him to tell him what to do during the game. If not, he will go on making incorrect calls that end up costing us points like today. His interfering not only failed to solve the problems of Smith's dismissal, they actively hindered us. I'm hopeful that the other results will go our way and we'll stop up, but something needs to change before next season...Smith just is not learning the ropes. Three away wins in his tenure is evidence enough.

He didn't have any tactics. His substitutions are just madness. He takes Macken off and brings on Westlake so now with have two rightbacks on the pitch looking confused with who's playing were and ending up with Taundry sort of playing midfeild with Ledesma up front by himself. After another 5 min or so he takes off Taundry brings on Grigg so we are now we have a straight switch fullback for fullback, striker for striker Why couldn't the thick pratt just do a double substitution to start with? He did the same thing at Rochdale so he just doesn't learn sod off Smith.
Ps Smith look on Twitter I think you have finally lost the dressing room.

[Darth Vader]

That steward.

[Graydon48]

Just seen the"goal" it hits the back of the net ffs. Just to even things up though watch their 4th goal shocking two footed challenge by Butler if their guy had not scored Butler would have been sent off. Idiot.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Well I had the misfortune of watching that stone cold sober this afternoon, it's not something I am going to try again in a hurry.

A game we could and should have won at a canter, but yet again we turned what looked like a win, into a defeat. Clearly there was some poor decisions by the ref, but make no mistake, the game could and should have been won. Whoever came up with the catchprhase "It's harder to play against 10 men" Clearly has never watched Walsall play.

We deserve to get relegated, won't be any tears from me, it would be exactly what we deserve.

[King Crimson]

Just seen the"goal" it hits the back of the net ffs. Just to even things up though watch their 4th goal shocking two footed challenge by Butler if their guy had not scored Butler would have been sent off. Idiot.

Saw that too. Lucky boy - can you imagine going into the last two games without two of our three centre halves?

[WFC_Rob]

Couldn't make it to the game, but was keeping an eye on the score all afternoon. It didn't necessarily surprise me to see us fail to keep our 2-1 league, but when I then looked at the substitutions Smith made, it all made perfect sense.

I'd love to see some sort of stat which shows how many goals we concede when certain players are on the pitch as we never seem anything other than atrocious when Westlake plays. He might be young, he might be 'one of our own', he might be a really nice lad, but he's not - and will never be - a League One footballer. Equally, the likes of Hurst and Nicholls just don't have the balls to stand up and be counted when things get tough. They never have, so expecting them to suddenly help us to grind out the points we need now is inexcusable.

It's been repeated suicidal management by Dean Smith all season which has us in this position. Like many on here, I've swayed between the 'Smith out' and 'Smith in' camps all season, but the fact it, his decisions have cost us more points than they've gained.

I'd rate our chances of staying up as 50-50 as things stand. I wouldn't rule out a point from next week's game, and I think Sheffield Wednesday will need to beat Wycombe in that final game. Staying up shouldn't be greeted with mass celebration as per last year though - none of this season can be classed as a success.

[gray]

Absolutely gutted, I can't believe I made the journey to watch that performance. The ref made shocking decisions for the sending off and not giving that goal, if we'd have gone 2 nil up I can't even imagine us messing that up. Exeter really were there for the taking. Having said all that our players just didn't turn up. Ledesma is clearly a great talent but he did very little again today as could be said for most of the team. Cuveliar looked up for it and scored a great goal, Macken just looked knackered.

It was the first time I've been to Exeter, I loved the ground, they're a nice club.

[aaaae]

if we'd have gone 2 nil up I can't even imagine us messing that up. Exeter really were there for the taking.

That was Rochdale and we managed to F that up, why wouldn't we F it up at Exeter?

[Registered Saddler]

Equally, the likes of Hurst and Nicholls just don't have the balls to stand up and be counted when things get tough.

I know your posts are always very balanced, but I've got to pick you up on this point. I'm sick of people assuming Nicholls is to blame when they haven't even been to the match. He was clearly our best attacking player for the first 60 minutes and they looked worried every time he got the ball. Scored a good goal and had the beating of his full-back, linking up nicely with Cuvelier.

Funnily enough, no one seems to assume the worst of Ledesma. Maybe it's because he has a foreign name, or plays well in a couple of home matches. Equally, Macken was terrible yesterday. But it's always Nicholls who is the go-to guy for our compaints, generally from fans who never travel to away games so only get at best half the story. I'm not saying he's perfect, far from it. His level is probably League Two, just as it was for Mark Wright. But he certainly doesn't deserve the criticism he gets on here.

[WFC_Rob]

But it's always Nicholls who is the go-to guy for our compaints, generally from fans who never travel to away games so only get at best half the story. I'm not saying he's perfect, far from it. His level is probably League Two, just as it was for Mark Wright. But he certainly doesn't deserve the criticism he gets on here.

Your first comment is hugely unfair. The fact that he only plays well away from home is proof that he's not good enough, not an argument that those who don't travel miss the point.

People cut Ledesma some slack because he has more good games than bad. Whilst we'd be down by now without him, we'd already be safe if it weren't for Nicholls' penalty misses.

He's far from our worst player of the season, of course he is. But the fact that he's played almost ever game this season shows just how weak a squad Dean Smith has assembled.

[chestersaddler]

Equally, the likes of Hurst and Nicholls just don't have the balls to stand up and be counted when things get tough.

I know your posts are always very balanced, but I've got to pick you up on this point. I'm sick of people assuming Nicholls is to blame when they haven't even been to the match. He was clearly our best attacking player for the first 60 minutes and they looked worried every time he got the ball. Scored a good goal and had the beating of his full-back, linking up nicely with Cuvelier.

Funnily enough, no one seems to assume the worst of Ledesma. Maybe it's because he has a foreign name, or plays well in a couple of home matches. Equally, Macken was terrible yesterday. But it's always Nicholls who is the go-to guy for our compaints, generally from fans who never travel to away games so only get at best half the story. I'm not saying he's perfect, far from it. His level is probably League Two, just as it was for Mark Wright. But he certainly doesn't deserve the criticism he gets on here.

Agree with your assessment of Nicholls yesterday. I thought he played well both in his attacking and defensive duties.

[chestersaddler]

Equally, the likes of Hurst and Nicholls just don't have the balls to stand up and be counted when things get tough.

I know your posts are always very balanced, but I've got to pick you up on this point. I'm sick of people assuming Nicholls is to blame when they haven't even been to the match. He was clearly our best attacking player for the first 60 minutes and they looked worried every time he got the ball. Scored a good goal and had the beating of his full-back, linking up nicely with Cuvelier.

Funnily enough, no one seems to assume the worst of Ledesma. Maybe it's because he has a foreign name, or plays well in a couple of home matches. Equally, Macken was terrible yesterday. But it's always Nicholls who is the go-to guy for our compaints, generally from fans who never travel to away games so only get at best half the story. I'm not saying he's perfect, far from it. His level is probably League Two, just as it was for Mark Wright. But he certainly doesn't deserve the criticism he gets on here.

Agree with your assessment of Nicholls yesterday. I thought he played well both in his attacking and defensive duties.

I have just commented on another thread about the perception of Ledesma's impact on our results since he joined. Maybe surprise a few who think he is our saviour.

[Registered Saddler]

But it's always Nicholls who is the go-to guy for our compaints, generally from fans who never travel to away games so only get at best half the story. I'm not saying he's perfect, far from it. His level is probably League Two, just as it was for Mark Wright. But he certainly doesn't deserve the criticism he gets on here.

Your first comment is hugely unfair. The fact that he only plays well away from home is proof that he's not good enough, not an argument that those who don't travel miss the point.

People cut Ledesma some slack because he has more good games than bad. Whilst we'd be down by now without him, we'd already be safe if it weren't for Nicholls' penalty misses.

He's far from our worst player of the season, of course he is. But the fact that he's played almost ever game this season shows just how weak a squad Dean Smith has assembled.

I didn't say he only played well away from home. I said that fans that only see him play at home assume he was to blame for away defeats. Even when that's not the case.
'Ledesma has more good games than bad' = I strongly disagree, over the course of his two spells with us.
'We'd be down by now without him' = We have 9 points from 9 games with him; 37 from 35 without him. The stats say we are worse with him in the team.
'We'd be safe if it wasn't for Nicholls' penalty misses' = Hasn't he only missed two? One that cost us one point v Oldham; one that didn't cost us any v Wycombe? I might be wrong about that. But we'd certainly not be safe with just one point extra.

[gray]

if we'd have gone 2 nil up I can't even imagine us messing that up. Exeter really were there for the taking.

That was Rochdale and we managed to F that up, why wouldn't we F it up at Exeter?

Good point. I just don't think it would have happen again, but you're right it could have quite easily I suppose.

[Bernie]

Can anyone ever take seriously again the opinions of someone who thinks that Nicholls is a better player than Ledesma?

[Registered Saddler]

Can anyone ever take seriously again the opinions of someone who thinks that Nicholls is a better player than Ledesma?

Who said that? Certainly not me.

[Willenhall Saddler]

The boring statto in me has just been looking up the form. Did you know that from Nov 1994 to Oct 2009, in all competitions, home and away we had 7 consecutive victories against Exeter City? I'll get my coat.

And another stat to amaze you all :lol: it was the first time in 115 matches that Exeter have played against 10 men!

[Willenhall Saddler]

Utter guano, if we dow gew down, we certainly deserve to, after getting hammered by Exeter!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Yep they had only won once in 11 games (until Walsall arrived) & the lowest scorers score 4 past us.We conceded 4 goals against a side who had scored 39 goals?????????? Utter utter garbage.

[ToeJoe Jnr]

Can anyone ever take seriously again the opinions of someone who thinks that Nicholls is a better player than Ledesma?

Ledesama is a luxury, but one that has been required two seasons on the bounce to try and drag us from the mire at the arse-end of the season.

Nicholls has played over 200 games, been part of them team season on season having had the luxury of a pre-season with the squad and manager to understand how we will play etc.

I don't think Registered was saying Nicholls is a better player, just that he attracts some unwanted criticism at times.

I on the other hand are happy to dish it out as he is pap and has masqueraded as a footballer for 5+ seasons now.

[Willenhall Saddler]

People talking about Wycombe still but surely our main worry now is chesterfield ?

Yeovil away and brentford at home to play .... They need to beat both , but with both having nothing to play for all of a sudden..... And the pressure is off as outsiders. If they did, a draw from our last 2 wouldn't save us .

Indeed. If next Saturday's results go against us, the league table going into the final game could look like this:

19. Orient 50
20. Walsall 46
------------------------
21. Wycombe 46
22. Chesterfield 45
23. Exeter 44
24. Rochdale 38

Does anyone feel confident that we would stay up if it did?

No, but it won't! :?

Why won't it? Wycombe i think will win next weekend.They are at home to Notts County.Now if Notts County can lose AT HOME 4-2 to Bury then they can just as easily lose away at Wycombe.Knowing Walsall we will finish below both Wycombe & Chesterfield.After yesterday's disgusting result, we deserve it.

[Willenhall Saddler]

I still think we'll stay up.

Was a decent turnout, thought we'd break the 500 mark but still, loads of old faces about it seemed, all tanked, bit worst for wear myself. Ace.

**** the wolves.

**** the WHO?

[Willenhall Saddler]

Interesting interview with Dean Smith on the OS. Describes the sending off as "laughable", says we'd definitely have won the game 11 v 11, claims we had an effort not given that was "two yards" over the line and refuses to blame the players for the defeat.

Be interesting to see what those who went make of his comments. Were we as hard done by as he claims? Given that many of the incidents seem to have occurred at the "wrong end" we might not find out until the highlights go up online. What I'm interested in is whether people think Dean Smith was tactically culpable in any way today.

Yeah the goal was over the line so we would have lost 4-3 instead of 4-2 then Dean.

[geoffwhiting]

People talking about Wycombe still but surely our main worry now is chesterfield ?

Yeovil away and brentford at home to play .... They need to beat both , but with both having nothing to play for all of a sudden..... And the pressure is off as outsiders. If they did, a draw from our last 2 wouldn't save us .

Indeed. If next Saturday's results go against us, the league table going into the final game could look like this:

19. Orient 50
20. Walsall 46
------------------------
21. Wycombe 46
22. Chesterfield 45
23. Exeter 44
24. Rochdale 38

Does anyone feel confident that we would stay up if it did?

No, but it won't! :?

Why won't it? Wycombe I think will win next weekend.They are at home to Notts County. Now if Notts County can lose AT HOME 4-2 to Bury then they can just as easily lose away at Wycombe. Knowing Walsall we will finish below both Wycombe & Chesterfield. After yesterday's disgusting result, we deserve it.

Why? Because that table assumes all three of our relegation rivals win next week, and IMHO it won't happen.

I agree Wycombe could win, that wouldn't surprise me at all (even though for this one rare occasion I'll be hoping Lee Hughes scores a hat-trick), but that will bring them level on points with us (assuming we lose, which I think we will) then they'll lose at Sheff W and finish below us due to an irreversibly poorer goal difference.

Exeter have to win both games, which they won't IMHO.

Same goes for Chesterfield, a win and a draw won't do it for them due to that goal difference of ours, which almost counts as an extra point, and certainly does if we end up level on points. Yeovil won't be a push-over at home, they never are, and have been on decent form these last few weeks. Depending on next week's results, Brentford could still be in with an outside chance of the play-offs (they still are) so they're unlikely to roll over, and they're uncompomising at the best of times.

I think Wycombe will take 3 points from their two games, Chesterfield 3, maybe 4, but can't see Exeter winning their two games.

So I think we'll go into the last day relying on Sheff W to beat Wycome, which they will, they can't afford not to in their position. The others won't be a danger by then.

Not that any of this justifies our appalling position and appalling recent results. If we survive on 46 points, it can hardly be described as success. If on the other hand the worst happens and we go down, it will have been throughly deserved, and basically underlines the issues I've had with the club for the last 4 years, namely Bonser's failure to support the manager and the team, and willingness to rely on brinksmanship season after season.

This time he may just get his just desserts, and if he does, I don't see us coming back in the way we did last time under Richard Money. I just pray that it doesn't happen!

[Jorge14]

We have dropped points (including 6 against Exeter and 4 against Rochdale) against all our rivals currently in the relegation zone. If we go down, THAT is the reason.

[longdogs]

Yeovil won't be a push-over at home, they never are

They've lost 10 home league matches this season. Only Orient and Hartlepool have lost more. Even we have only lost 7.

and have been on decent form these last few weeks.

Yeovil's last 7 league games : P7 W1 D2 L4.

[Willenhall Saddler]

People talking about Wycombe still but surely our main worry now is chesterfield ?

Yeovil away and brentford at home to play .... They need to beat both , but with both having nothing to play for all of a sudden..... And the pressure is off as outsiders. If they did, a draw from our last 2 wouldn't save us .

Indeed. If next Saturday's results go against us, the league table going into the final game could look like this:

19. Orient 50
20. Walsall 46
------------------------
21. Wycombe 46
22. Chesterfield 45
23. Exeter 44
24. Rochdale 38

Does anyone feel confident that we would stay up if it did?

No, but it won't! :?

Why won't it? Wycombe I think will win next weekend.They are at home to Notts County. Now if Notts County can lose AT HOME 4-2 to Bury then they can just as easily lose away at Wycombe. Knowing Walsall we will finish below both Wycombe & Chesterfield. After yesterday's disgusting result, we deserve it.

Why? Because that table assumes all three of our relegation rivals win next week, and IMHO it won't happen.

I agree Wycombe could win, that wouldn't surprise me at all (even though for this one rare occasion I'll be hoping Lee Hughes scores a hat-trick), but that will bring them level on points with us (assuming we lose, which I think we will) then they'll lose at Sheff W and finish below us due to an irreversibly poorer goal difference.

Exeter have to win both games, which they won't IMHO.

Same goes for Chesterfield, a win and a draw won't do it for them due to that goal difference of ours, which almost counts as an extra point, and certainly does if we end up level on points. Yeovil won't be a push-over at home, they never are, and have been on decent form these last few weeks. Depending on next week's results, Brentford could still be in with an outside chance of the play-offs (they still are) so they're unlikely to roll over, and they're uncompomising at the best of times.

I think Wycombe will take 3 points from their two games, Chesterfield 3, maybe 4, but can't see Exeter winning their two games.

So I think we'll go into the last day relying on Sheff W to beat Wycome, which they will, they can't afford not to in their position. The others won't be a danger by then.

Not that any of this justifies our appalling position and appalling recent results. If we survive on 46 points, it can hardly be described as success. If on the other hand the worst happens and we go down, it will have been throughly deserved, and basically underlines the issues I've had with the club for the last 4 years, namely Bonser's failure to support the manager and the team, and willingness to rely on brinksmanship season after season.

This time he may just get his just desserts, and if he does, I don't see us coming back in the way we did last time under Richard Money. I just pray that it doesn't happen!

I'm not worried about Exeter, it's Wycombe & Chesterfield more so im worried about.I just have this nasty feeling.People keep saying that Walsall will escape because of their experience last season, no, we only stayed up last season because of Plymouth's 10 point deduction.I just have this gut feeling, especially after yesterday.