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Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Reports and reaction from the 2011-2012 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
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bangsection
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Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:02 pm

Four Oaks Saddler wrote:It'll be interesting to know the impact the substitutions had on the game.


I still can't decide whether I should be happy with a point or disgusted that we didn't get three.

Will therefore probably need a couple of hours to unravel the substitutions but I do have a hazy recollection of Westlake (who was awful) playing right midfield at one point as some sort of stop gap before he himself was substituted. Just like Sheff Wendy, Smith's substitutions often seem to baffle players and fans alike.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:03 pm

Chomper wrote:
BathSaddler wrote:A missed opportunity at 2-0 up, but at least it was us that got the equaliser, which means I'm not feeling quite as bad as I would have done. The last 20 minutes must have been pretty farcical from a Walsall point of view though.

I hope they learn from this experience and make sure they don't make the same mistake against an equally desperate Chesterfield side next week, when three points are an absolute must [and Charlton away is next..].


We can't have learned much as i've lost count of the number of late equalisers we've conceded this season. I reckon a good 8-10 points have been lost!!! Key match against Chesterfield bnut then, it was always going to be a key game. A point's a point but we really could have done with winning this one with the tough games we have on the horizon.

Rather than hanging onto the coat tails of those above us, we're still connected to those below us, which is frustrating.


Knowing us, we'll pick up more points against Charlton, Huddersfield and MK Dongs than we will do against Chesterfield, Tranmere and Exeter! :?

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:06 pm

Chomper wrote:
BathSaddler wrote:A missed opportunity at 2-0 up, but at least it was us that got the equaliser, which means I'm not feeling quite as bad as I would have done. The last 20 minutes must have been pretty farcical from a Walsall point of view though.

I hope they learn from this experience and make sure they don't make the same mistake against an equally desperate Chesterfield side next week, when three points are an absolute must [and Charlton away is next..].


We can't have learned much as i've lost count of the number of late equalisers we've conceded this season. I reckon a good 8-10 points have been lost!!! Key match against Chesterfield bnut then, it was always going to be a key game. A point's a point but we really could have done with winning this one with the tough games we have on the horizon.

Rather than hanging onto the coat tails of those above us, we're still connected to those below us, which is frustrating.[/quote]


..and particularly when you consider that Wycombe have scored 90th minute + equalisers on two successive Saturdays. I can't help thinking that we have to overhaul one of the sides above us to stay up, rather than rely on the chairboys faltering. Still, plenty of twists and turns yet.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:20 pm

Just back, that was UTTER cack...we were like world beaters in the first half, how we were not 4 or 5 nil up at half time I will never know Ledesma is just AWESOME, he will be snapped up by someone else without doubt, we cannot afford to have a brilliant player like him in our side!!
Then we proceed to throw it away bigtime in the second half, what team actually came out after the break, cus it certainly wasn't the same one!! We were hesitant, lacking in any attacking nouse, and you could see the writing on the wall as soon as Rochdale got the first goal, it had a 3-2 defeat written all over it...and it almost was. Other results din't go our way either, bugga it up against Chesterfield on Saturday and it really will 'go to the wire' on the last day.
Just one final point on a frustrating day....why oh why did he take Messi off? He was still full of running, chased EVERY ball and was a thorn in Rochdales side throughout....yet another master stroke (NOT) by ginger.... :(

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:46 pm

Just got back as well; very nice of Rochdale to give us the best stand but then there was more of us than them :D

Still cant decide whether it's 2 pts dropped or 1 won. During the game, i though Rochdale were cack but looking at the stats, they've had 19 corners, so did have us under pressure.

Re Messi, the two possible reasons I could give for him being substituted are that
1) He did receice a terrible tackle and so Smith wanted to keep him fresh for next week or
2) He was winding their players up so much that he may have got himself into trouble.

Either way he definately deserves an award for the 2nd goal celebration- he took the camera off the pitchside photographer in front of us and took a picture of the celebrating players!! How he didn't get booked i don't know.

Great support today- best i've heard in a while.

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Re: I dont believe it

Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:12 pm

Lukeyboy wrote:
chestersaddler wrote:
myleftknee wrote:Obviously we've got to go down a goal before performing.


:? Presumably we must have been doing something right to be 2-0 up?


then conceeded 3! being 2 up that match should of been 3 points for us! disappointed.


Indeed,however, read the post that I was replying to. We were not a goal down until stoppage time. So, did we not perform in the irst half?

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:22 pm

WoW! What a game!

2-0 and coasting
2-1 and all to play for again
2-3 down and all over
3-3 with a 1 in a million GOAL!

Chin up - a draw finishes them and we've lost no ground.
Let's make sure of a win v Chesterfield!

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:48 pm

If anyone is in any doubt as to the reason why Walsall are so poor then look no further than Dean Smith. Yet another game thrown away because the bloke hasn't got a clue about reorganising his team or tactics during a game and without the inspirational Ledesma today we would have nothing. Rochdale were the better side for vast tracts of the game, witness the countless number of corners they won and eventually scored from. Poor decision to play Nicholls in a midfield role, what's the point? he's useless and what was he thinking playing Westlake at full back when we had the limited Taundry available.
Hopeless, hopeless performance from a managerless team that relies on it's own team spirit to provide the inspiration.
I've seen all three games now where we have led by two clear goals only to have drawn or lost. It's a pity that we haven't got a proper manager :evil:

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:48 pm

3 points dropped that, 2 nil up against a terribly barclays Rochdale side, we should have been cruising, second half was absolutely shocking from us lot, lucky to come home with a point.

Anyways, fudge the game, how nice was that chippy? Shame the Chruch was closed (being refurbished mind) and the Cemetery was packed, had to do with that little social thing next to the main stand. Decent enough.

Any idea on our following? Seemed a fair turn-out, wish I could say the same about Rochdale's support - where the fudge were they? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:16 pm

On another thread somebody asked why Westlake had not been playing recently, well today showed the reason. Weak in defence, not winning one header all afternoon and allowing constant threat down their left side. Their first goal was a result of him been beaten in the air in the box, no suprise, it is the same every time he plays. Why he was preferred to Taundry is a real mystery and arguably cost us today's game. Smith must have realised his mistake by making a substitution and putting Taundry at right back, the issue was then he shoe horned Westlake into a right sided midfield role until they equalised when he replaced him with Paterson. A game we should really have won, even though they had lots of the ball first half they never really threatened our goal, we looked more likely to score and should have been further ahead at half time.

First goal by Ledesma was a real quality strike and his delivery from the set piece for the second was also spot on. Even though Bowerman did okay I feel we did miss Macken today with his ability to hold the ball up, something that we did not manage to do particularly second half and subsequently never really had a foot hold in their half of the pitch, hopefully Macken will be back for what now is a massive game next weekend.

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Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:20 pm

Looked to me like we believed our own hype in the second half. It's great to have a skilful player like Ledesma in the side but the other players have to realise that they are not suddenly playing tiki-taka at the Camp Nou. More than once in the second half we were guilty of overelaborating when we should have put our foot through the ball (Sadler's mistake for the penalty being the most glaring example).

The 'camera' celebration was a nice moment but I prefer that kind of thing when you're 2-0 up in the 90th minute rather than the 38th. That was Coleman's half time team talk sorted. For whatever reason we just didn't turn up in the second half. The midfield were non-existent and we missed Macken terribly - Bowerman is not a ball-retaining target man and Ledesma was much quieter, in part because of an utterly cynical late tackle by their right back which the officials somehow missed. They targeted Westlake mercilessly and he looked well out of his depth. I can see Smith's dilemma - rushing Taundry back if Beevers is injured would have been risky but one of them must start on Saturday.

I'm finally reconciled with the point - partly because I suddenly remembered that Butler's goal had won me £50. But let's hope that's the last 45 minutes we see like that this season. The substitutions? You'll need to give me a bit longer on those, I'm afraid.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:54 pm

I'll keep this short and sweet

Decent first half, but we only scored via a rasper and an own goal. Did we really force their keeper into save after save? Not from where I was sitting.
Atrocious second half, really really desperate.
We missed Macken so much.
I love Andy Butler.
Questionable subs, but was there really much else to do? I'd have done the same, except i'd have started Taundry.
Worrying signed from the back 4 in the second half, we weren't at our usual tight self.
All 3 goals we're dire.
Westlake's Walsall career is over.
I love Andy Butler.
Kevan Hurst needs to up it again or do one,
Bowerman really is not a targetman,
Rochdale were utter, utter fodder for 60 minutes, yet they bummed us for the last half an hour.
Cuvelier had by far his worst game and it showed.
We really missed Chambers (didnt think id say that) in the second half to chop things up. There bloke Jones took over.
Mantom's too lightweight and no better than what we have.
IF we go down it'l be down to this pathetic nack of losing leads, we did it today, in the 95th minute against Wednesday, in the second half at Yeovil, against Stevenage. Hold out for them and we'd be half way up the table now. Instead we aren't and it'l cost us big time as things are falling against us this season unlike this time last year when EVERYTHING was going our way.
I love Andy Butler.
Great away support in the first half, but the noise levels soon dropped as our players performance did - precisely when they needed our noise the most.
I hope Ledesma does Smith a favour after giving him a second chance, signing him up, giving his kid a wage and signs a contract even if its just a 'favour' kind of thing, whereby Smith says, sign up for us and then we have to sell you to let you go etc.

Big game next week, 3 points needed. Our run in is dreadful.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:00 pm

There must have been a fair few who missed our equaliser as a lot of people were leaving at the exit near me at 3-2. I must admit I was not surprised when we finally went behind as Rochdale were much the better side in the second half & a win for them would not have been totally undeserved, especially as we completely sat back on our first half efforts having decided we had won it all ready( which was what I thought at the time). They had plenty of decent 2nd half chances & didn't give up. Grof might be a great shot stopper but he (as at Hillsborough) worries me as well. He does not command his area & I would have thought any opposition manager would be encouraging as many crosses into our box as possible.
Ledesma's goal was great and he is a definite asset, but I can see future trouble from the way he winds up the opposition. Agree with what was said about Taundry, perhaps he was not fully match fit? Pretty stupid & blatant penalty given by Sadler.
Still mixed feelings at the end & can't decide whether it was 3 points thrown away or one gained. Both I think

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:07 pm

Hurst really gets on my tits with his constant 'floating in the CM position' shite, you're a winger mate, stay on the fool wing OR Deano actually play the lad in CM.

Bloke next to me was saying the same.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:14 pm

Darth Vader wrote:Hurst really gets on my fools with his constant 'floating in the CM position' guano, you're a winger mate, stay on the barsteward wing OR Deano actually play the lad in CM.

Bloke next to me was saying the same.


Did he have a swear filter in his voice box?

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:16 pm

chestersaddler wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:Hurst really gets on my fools with his constant 'floating in the CM position' guano, you're a winger mate, stay on the barsteward wing OR Deano actually play the lad in CM.

Bloke next to me was saying the same.


Did he have a swear filter in his voice box?


:lol: Scunthorpe.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:17 pm

Darth Vader wrote:
chestersaddler wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:Hurst really gets on my fools with his constant 'floating in the CM position' guano, you're a winger mate, stay on the barsteward wing OR Deano actually play the lad in CM.

Bloke next to me was saying the same.


Did he have a swear filter in his voice box?


:lol: lady-garden.


:mrgreen:

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:27 pm

Our whole season in ninety minutes.

Really quite good in parts, really quite bad in parts.

We can conjure a draw from a position of dominance, we can conjure a draw from a position of hopelessness.

We're enigmatic and mysterious.

A riddle wrapped in a conundrum.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:28 pm

within an enigma and outside a gatepost.
:arrow:
Cryptic.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:43 pm

As said above, our season in a nutshell today.

Really concerned with our widemen / forwards.

Hurst and Pattersons games are littered with school boy errors you would expect to find on the local parks pitches on a weekend. Patterson chooses to dribble in the wrong areas. Hurst disrupts the pace and flow of the game at every opportunity. Having good ball players like Flo, Ledesma and Mantom is making our wingers look even worse than they are as the service they are getting is quality, and they're not up to the job.

Nicholls, yeah he is used out wide but surely better at holding the ball up than Bowerman. Bowerman must be made of MDF.

We are a dangerous team to play, but we'll give everyone a chance.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:22 am

Hurst and Patterson are schoolboys, aren't they?
:wink:

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:00 pm

Just disgusting that they didn't win that match from 2-0 up and not looking like conceeding. Still can't get my head around it.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:35 pm

Left the ground thinking two points lost but on reflection it was a point stolen.
For most of the game we were second best. Rochdale started the brighter and our first goal, wonderful strike from Emmy was totally againt the run of the play. Gave us a bit more confidence and swagger and when the second one went in Rochdale heads dropped a bit. Better team but two nil down.
Second half Rochdale were more physical and some challenges were so late were almost in next week's game. Not helped by a ref who seemed anxious not to book anyone. Once they scored you always felt they could equalise and then go in front. An amazing response to equalise straight from the restart, don't think they touched the ball before picking it out of the net.
Grof is a good shot stopper but if we have a goalkeeping coach why is he still unable to claim a ball in the six yard box?
Westlake was too easily brushed off the ball and won nothing in the air. Manny, Butler and Sadler did ok apart from Sadler's woeful conceding of a penalty.
We were so weak in midfield it was embarrassing. Can't remember Nicholls doing anything except a great piece of control as the ball dropped over his shoulder. Quite how Mantom retains his place baffles me. His first touch is poor, which then puts him under pressure. Doesn't provide a lot of help to Flo who had only an average sort of game yesterday. Hurst is starting to play with a bit of confidence but needs to learn to shoot along the floor. How many times in the last couple of games has he shot over the bar.
Emmy was the lone bright spot scored one, assisted one and had probably our only other shot on target, an audacious 40 yarder. Bowerman was unable to cope with the 2 big centre halfs. To say that Grigg provided more physicality when he came on says it all. We did actually win a few high balls then.
Once again our manager lost the tactical battle. The game changed in second half when Rochdale made a substitution and went 3 at the back. Our midfield was over run before but were now submerged. Their number 11 put over some cracking crosses but we did nothing to counteract this. Did he consider bringing Lancashire on instead of Paterson to go 3 at the back with Taundry and Sadler helping out wide in midfield with Hurst going more central?. His plan B seems very like his plan A.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:46 pm

Duke wrote:
priestley_saddler wrote:Can't decide whether I'm happy with that or not


Could have been a lot worse , simply have to best Chesterfield now


Weren't we saying the same thing about Rochdale & we didn't win that either.We just DON'T beat teams around us.The only one i can think of is Wycombe.That's the only one.Im still fuming from yesterday.2-0 up, cruising & we nearly lose it to fudge Rochdale????????????????? Ok they are battling for their lives but aren't we???

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:48 pm

Darth Vader wrote:3 points dropped that, 2 nil up against a terribly awful Rochdale side, we should have been cruising, second half was absolutely shocking from us lot, lucky to come home with a point.

Anyways, **** the game, how nice was that chippy? Told ya! Shame the Chruch was closed (being refurbished mind) and the Cemetery was packed, had to do with that little social thing next to the main stand. Decent enough.

Any idea on our following? Seemed a fair turn-out, wish I could say the same about Rochdale's support - where the **** were they? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:11 pm

Chapin wrote:Left the ground thinking two points lost but on reflection it was a point stolen.
For most of the game we were second best.


The stats support that view, in particular Rochdale getting 19 corners to our 3.

Chapin wrote:Quite how Mantom retains his place baffles me. His first touch is poor, which then puts him under pressure. Doesn't provide a lot of help to Flo


I totally agree there. He is a weak link, we might as well have stuck with Peterlin who had played better as the season went on.

Chapin wrote:Once again our manager lost the tactical battle. The game changed in second half when Rochdale made a substitution and went 3 at the back. Our midfield was over run before but were now submerged. Their number 11 put over some cracking crosses but we did nothing to counteract this. Did he consider bringing Lancashire on instead of Paterson to go 3 at the back


Why doesn't Lancashire ever play at full back? He is a very good defender, he can pass, he is reasonably quick, and while he is slightly weak in the air for a centre half he would be good in the air for a full back.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:40 pm

Well that was a disappointment!

Sounds silly becuase we scored 3, but we never looked like scoring all game. Cant remember us having any shots on target other than those that went it, infact, can't remember many more shots off target either. Centre Backs looked solid until they scored their first, then our defence seemed to be ripped apart whenever rochdale went foward. Centre Midfield didnt seem to be there in the second half, Wingers werent there at all. Only player who I could say played well was Ledesma. Always went foward, a few cracking balls across the pitch. Took his goal well too.

Grof - Didnt have many saves to make, caught a few good crosses.
Westlake - poor. reluctant to tackle until he's backed off into our box, then lets Smith tackle them for him. Didnt get foward at all either.
Smith - Solid first hour, won everything, then seemed to disappear.
Butler - Same as Smith. Great header for the goal though! What a legend!
Sadler - Poor game by his standards. Same as Westlake; just not as bad.
Nicholls - Saw him win his first ever header yesterday, and it went straight to their player. Seriously though, how many times did Grof kick it wide right from a Goal kick, for it to go straight to their left back with AN barely jumping up for it. Not a wide player.
Mantom - annonymous all game. Was expecting more, as I hadnt seen him playing yet.
Cuvelier - Poor compared to when I saw him v's Preston. Rarely got on the ball and took it foward, but made a few good passes.
Hurst - Reluctant to put a cross in, always stopped and tried to take it inside and get tackled.
Ledesma - Great! Nearly always had something to do with the ball. He moans just as much as Macken though, every 10 bloodyseconds! :D
Bowerman - Wasnt making a lot of runs through when Ledesma had the ball, but apart from EL, he was getting no service.

Paterson - Wasnt on for long, but kept losing the ball. He always cuts inside too, and runs along the edge of the box instead of going on the outside and putting a cross in.
Taundry - Not on for long either, looked a bit better than Westlake did.
Grigg - Ended up chasing defenders as he never got the ball. Seems very weak and not able to get the ball when it's passed to him.

Notes to Smith. 1) Dont take your best player off. Ledesma was running all game long, but didnt appear to be that tired. In my eyes, we always need at least either him or Macken (when fit) on the pitch to hold the ball up in the opposition half. Macken is strong and will keep the ball until he has someone to pass to, and Ledesma has enough skill to keep it off the defenders.
2) Can we try 4-3-3 in the next game. The wide players still look poor, and Mantom and Cuvelier got ripped apart by their CM's the last half hour. Flo - Chambers - Mantom/Peterlin in Midfield. And Ledesma - Macken - Paterson/Nicholls up top. Worth a try?

Great support yesterday though, 500 of us maybe. And inly 2,900 there very poor considering we look quite a lot.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:10 pm

Bernie wrote:
Chapin wrote:Once again our manager lost the tactical battle. The game changed in second half when Rochdale made a substitution and went 3 at the back. Our midfield was over run before but were now submerged. Their number 11 put over some cracking crosses but we did nothing to counteract this. Did he consider bringing Lancashire on instead of Paterson to go 3 at the back


Why doesn't Lancashire ever play at full back? He is a very good defender, he can pass, he is reasonably quick, and while he is slightly weak in the air for a centre half he would be good in the air for a full back.

That's a good shout fuelled by common sense - something Dean Smith is desperately short of.

Before his injury, Westlake was costing us goals left right and centre, and now he's back in the side we've reverted back to that again. Every single team we play realise within the first 20 minutes that he's inept in the air and easily beaten by his opposite number. From then on, it's worse than us being a man down.

Couldn't make it yesterday but whoever said it was our season summed up in 90 minutes is spot on. I just hope it doesn't take a last gasp slice of fortune to save our League One status - we have plenty of opportunity to pull ourselves to safety before that trip to MK.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:20 pm

Lancashire at right back?

Only if your playing a hoofball team, he would get raped by any team with pace out wide.

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Re: Rochdale (A) League 1 Saturday 31/3/12.

Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:45 pm

latviancheese wrote:Lancashire at right back?

Only if your playing a hoofball team, he would get raped by any team with pace out wide.


The Rape of Lancashire - would have historians (and Saigon) scurrying to the bookshelves.

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