Stevenage (H) League 1 Saturday 24/3/12.

[Neuromantic]

I thought Nicholls was good against Sheffield Wednesday but you're right Ledesma would be much better I would have thought.

He displayed more guile. craft and intelligence in 20 mins than Nicholls, Paterson and Hurst did in 90. WHY did he not play ?!

Especially at home when the impetus is on the home side to unlock the opposition's defence. Crazy decision.

[Duke]

another draw , the pressure is on Tuesday night massive game for us .

[King Crimson]

Walsall FC 1 : 1 HMP Stevenage

Wrong formation, Smith.

Their 3-5-2, with enormous bruisers in the middle, made it virtually impossible for Flo and Mantom. We really needed to be narrower (Hurst and Paterson did little of substance anyway) and play tighter in the middle. A 4-3-1-2 would have been a better formation in my view. I'd have had Ladesma or Bowerman with Macken, Flo in a free role behind.

Only problem is...where are the central midfielders in the squad? :(

[Fray Bentos is God!]

It ay often that a team hovering around the relegation zone are brought down to a playoff chasing teams' level.

[Cully]

Following on from the Wednesday game, this was the same players, same team, but poorer opposition and what did we get?..................absolute rubbish. What's changed, well it can only be Smiths instructions and his terrible home tactics. There is no doubt that the only reason we didn't beat Stevenage was down to Smiths input on the tactical side.

STOP PICKING ALEX NICHOLLS, I don't care how much he put himself about on Tuesday, pick a player who is better and stop playing ridiculous hoof the ball down the channels at every opportunity.......let our midfield get involved, pass the ball just like we did on Tuesday.

Smith is just thick, after 38 games he still can't see why we consistently fail at home particularly after the signing of Culvelier and Mantom which has given us the midfield we've lacked all season.

Rubbish, rubbish, rubbish.

[Darth Vader]

How fudge shite was that?

First time I've seen most in the lower alsop sit, no-one could be arsed.

[boringteacher]

Dreadful game against a dreadful team. Two wasted points - we've got the players who should have been able to gut hoofers like Stevenage on the break from 1-0 up.

And for all the discussion on Ledesma v Nicholls/Patterson, how jolly bad was Hurst? That was the finest wing display I've seen from a Saddler since that excuse for a footballer that dogface signed on a free from Grimsby a couple of years ago (Peter Still?).

[King Crimson]

Dreadful game against a dreadful team. Two wasted points - we've got the players who should have been able to gut hoofers like Stevenage on the break from 1-0 up.

And for all the discussion on Ledesma v Nicholls/Patterson, how jolly bad was Hurst? That was the finest wing display I've seen from a Saddler since that excuse for a footballer that dogface signed on a free from Grimsby a couple of years ago (Peter Still?).

We insist on playing 4-4-2 irrespective of the personnel available or the opposition. That is fine if you have quality wingers who will get behind the full-backs. We don't. So why not adjust to suit our strengths? Not least, why don't we attempt to play a system that sees our best player get as much time on the ball as possible? 4-3-1 (Flo) - 2. And bloody get to the ball to Flo's feet rather than Alex "seven seasons and counting" Nicholls!!!!!

[Mal]

Sorry but the game was against a strong, organised and high flying team who gave us little space and time in all areas if the pitch. Boswick there #24 was key and scored the equaliser, they had two shots all game one saved and one scored!

My beef is our continued reliance on the oil tanker that is Macken, this continued rise tinted view he holds the ball up and enables us to play is rubbish. Another very poor performance from our #1 striker.

Defensively we were solid, the two prem kids did well against a tough opposition and created chances from which we could have scored. We hit the post a couple if times and z couple narrowly wide. The ref was awful for both sides and they certainly stretched the rule book with some of there deliberate blocks, fouls and tackles.

As for this continued reference to hoofball that was mainly in evidence from defensive clearances under heavy pressure with two/ three Boro players putting our lads under it.

You can see why they are where they are in a poor league this year as they attacked and defended as a team.

As for Smith, well he had settled for a point at 70 mins, however I would have had Macken off before Patterson, felt like we played with ten men for most the game.

Massive game Tuesday but 4 from 6 would be good and continue what has been a promising couple of months.

[King Crimson]

So the two Prem lads who did well - how many chances did they create for Macken this afternoon, Mal?

Macken dropped deeper and deeper looking for the ball, because no one in midfield could find it.

[latviancheese]

So the two Prem lads who did well - how many chances did they create for Macken this afternoon, Mal?

Macken dropped deeper and deeper looking for the ball, because no one in midfield could find it.

He probably got fed up of looking up in the air.

[Mal]

The lads did well against what I thought was tough pros who physically were more powerful. As for Macken I just expect more, he is a good footballer no argument but we need more from him and he just doesn't have the legs or the presence. This is where the squad has lacked for a couple if years, but you should expect him at his stage if his career not to get waiting for the ball, and at least control and hold it rather than just flick things in. That's what I expect from a senior pro which would have allowed the midfield to move part him. He failed once again to do that, look at the last 20 or even the last five with ledesma and George, it was the longest we spent in the final third all game and it came from holding the ball and bringing others in.

As I said the missing link is that alternative big man who can unsettle and at least give us another option when we are 'hoofing' as seems to be the buzz word on here. At least the opposition centre halts may start to get a few elbows in there necks. Oh for an Andy Rammel type in the squad!

[Chapin]

Dire game that reminded me of the Dagenham cuptie. It should have been so different with a bright start and goal.
We them proceded to keep lumping the ball forward for Nicholls to chase. To be fair to him he kept chasing but nothing comes of it.
Grof didn't have a lot to do but he and Sadler need to learn to communicate. The back four as ever were solid enough.
Midfield was poor. Paterson was still reading the rave reviews of his midweek goal. Struggled to get past a man and struggled to pass to a red shirt. Hurst was fractionally better but missed a headed chance and provided a challenger for worst free kick of the season. Flo worked and battled well but needed movement off him to create things. It wasn't there today. I've seen Mansom twice now and other than his goal not been impressed. Today he looked out of his depth, easily brushed off the ball and contributed nothing.
Up front Nicholls worked hard produced nothing, Macken didn't work so hard and produced the same. Things improved with Emmy coming on and you felt something might happen. Wonderful bit of composure to create an opening for himself and then put it wide. Hit the post with a free kick and did more in his half hour than the other front players did in 90 mins. Strange decision to play Bowerman wide left when he came on and put Nicholls back up top.
Have to say I worry about Smith's tactical ability. Stevenage worked hard and played as a team but didn't have a lot of ability. Sadly we played them at their own game. Lump it and chase with yet another draw as the result

[saddlerken]

Lets avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth and rid of Smith, it's all very well keeping the defence organised and even having players play for you, this will only get you so far. If we are ever to progress then we need a manager who can apply the necessary tactics and attacking ideas to push us up the table. It would also be nice of we had a manager who had an eye for a player.

A rubbish season, AGAIN

[King Crimson]

Lets avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth and rid of Smith, it's all very well keeping the defence organised and even having players play for you, this will only get you so far. If we are ever to progress then we need a manager who can apply the necessary tactics and attacking ideas to push us up the table. It would also be nice of we had a manager who had an eye for a player.

A rubbish season, AGAIN

Correct.

Newsflash: 4-4-2 is not obligatory.

[Neuromantic]

I think what enrages me even more, is that playing long ball is absolutely senseless given the players we have in midfield and up front. Absolutely crazy.

Are we supposed to be a professional football team? I do wonder sometimes.

[Sadders]

I've been kind of thinking this for a while and recent performances have told me that im correct. I dont honestly think Smith, who has worked with many managers, many different sets of players can't physically see that playing hoof wont work - but its more down to the players. Today when a team parked the bus or played 5 in the middle (See Hartlepool, Rochdale) our players and midfielders either didnt have time to take the ball at their feet or there was not enough time on the ball to create anything. I remember frequently for years, being told to pass the ball to feet by my sunday league manager only to not have the time or see a pass to pick and eventually resorting to lumping it in the direction of the forwards and hoping.

There is no way in my mind a group of professionals, a group of trained and certified men have not realised that lumping it to our strikers that are very small or weak is going to work. I think we've seen that in recent weeks as well. We passed the ball against a Sheffield United team that came to attack and played a 4-4-2, we played brillantly on the counter attack on Tuesday against a Wednesday team that we're attacking and left space in the midfield, but we struggled against both Hartlepool, Dale and Stevenage who gave us no time, worked hard and came not to lose instead of to win.

Stevenage were poor, but were thugs and had very little 'footballing skill' about them. I said earlier in the thread that today's game warranted either a 4-5-1 with Chambers holding and Mantom/Cuvelier infront of him or dropping Mantom all together (who's far too little and lightweight for games like today and I blame Smith for playing him) and playing a 4-4-2. Either way it has become very clear to me, that we have a cheap-ish bunch of players that are capable of playing football against teams that give them spaces, that work hard, that are very organised, that are well drilled and disciplined by their manager but on the grand scale of things dont have the craft, pace, guile and quality to break down a team that are a replica of themselves Ie Hartlepool, Stevenage, Rochdale, Brentford, Notts County.

I new before today that the game would be exactly as it was. Stevenage have dropped off in form, drawing lots which suggests their solid at the back and mis-firing upfront and thats exactly what they were. They we're organised at the back, had 11 players that we're big, tall and built well that we're all willing to run, be disciplined, defend as a team and attack as one. They created nothing and we kept their strikerforce absolutely silent. Our midfield worked hard, and did challenge but either weren't tall or strong enough to win headers or were shrugged off the ball by their 5 in midfield.

We scored from nothing, they scored from nothing. Every Walsall fan mays well have headed for the pub from 15:03 until the 85th minute when we finally showed some more urgency. The game was horrendously scrappy, very boring and generally not worthy of £10.50 of my money.

I still stick by the fact that when Macken plays well, we do to. But we have to get the basic creativity logics correct before we slate/praise him and before we rely on him. With the ball to his feet he's a great player, holds the ball up well, is a big bulky chap and brings the midfield into play. But when our players/fullbacks/wingers and pressurised they resort to hoof (because they dont no better/dont have the quality to do anything better) thus causing Macken to become in-effective, thus meaning the ball rebounds, thus meaning the midfielders can't join for support because they'l be out of position, thus meaning Macken gets isolated and we looked toothless upfront.

The simple fact is. Better players want to go to teams who pay better wages, get better crowds and have more ambitions than WFC. Until that is sorted out we're always going to rely on players that hoof under pressure, or dont have the quality to break down stubborn sides. Perhaps the 1,000 odd Walsall fans who returned today for the cheap prices/free tickets should make more of a frequent effort again and things on the pitch may improve. I await the 'we've got no ambition, i refuse to line bonsers pockets' arguements - but its no coincidence, that as the 500 here, 200 there, 300 have slowly dwindled away over the last 4 years, the teams league position have slowly declined. We finished 12th under Hutchings, with 4,500 fans, then it was 4,000 the next season and we struggled, this season its 3,700 and we're 1 place lower. Every little helps.

On to the game specifics.
- Butler is the best centre back at the club since Scott Dann, how big must his headache be tonight? He kept Agyemang in his back pocket and headed everything that came his way to safety.
- Mantom's no better than Peterlin/Chambers and is more lightweight than Chambers.
- Ledesma caused more problems in 20 minutes than ANY striker or midfielder did in the previous 70, but I completely 100% agree with Smith no starting him as Stevenage's style would have rendered him useless for a long period in the game
- If we dont get Cuvelier on the ball we look clueless in attack
- Hurst usually adds balance to the side, but today was his worst performance in a Walsall shirt. Shame as him coming back to fitness has seen an increase in quality of team performances
- Paterson is a 50-50 player and today was the negative 50. Weak, lightweight and tries stupid tricks in good positions when its easier to do something simple
- Grof has been great so far, but against Wednesday he sounded a bit all over the place and today there was a few mix ups and a few flaps from corners which suggest to me that he may be feeling a slight increase in pressure, perhaps Wacka may be better for the run-in.

Overall it wasn't a great performance and our continued weakness in hoofing/creativity when teams play 5 in the midfield or park the bus showed its face again. On a positive note, Stevenage recently held a full spurs side to a 0-0 with their style and frustrating play, they defend well and their spoiling tactics clearly work, you only need to ask Sheffield Wednesday (6 points from them), Charlton (Beat them at home), Huddersfield in recent weeks and the blades who they beat 1-0 down at their place how effective they can be.

We also have Dale, Chesterfield, Tranmere, Exeter and Colchester left. Colchester will want a shot at the playoffs and will come and have a go and the other 4 games are against teams that either need to win, or are in good form and will come and have a go, which should give us the chance to get our creative players (Cuvelier, Macken, Hurst, Paterson, Ledesma) on the ball with more space to run and move.

I fear this year, we may be on the wrong side of the wire, but its going to exactly that again.

Hoping for a big away following at Rochdale next week, lets get behind them and see what happens.

Special mention for Butler who was imperious again today and to kev for his delayed but ultimately worthwile GAMBOLE that added more entertainment than anything on the pitch.


UTS

[Lone Striker]

Dreadful game against a dreadful team. Two wasted points - we've got the players who should have been able to gut hoofers like Stevenage on the break from 1-0 up.

And for all the discussion on Ledesma v Nicholls/Patterson, how jolly bad was Hurst? That was the finest wing display I've seen from a Saddler since that excuse for a footballer that dogface signed on a free from Grimsby a couple of years ago (Peter Still?).

We insist on playing 4-4-2 irrespective of the personnel available or the opposition. That is fine if you have quality wingers who will get behind the full-backs. We don't. So why not adjust to suit our strengths? Not least, why don't we attempt to play a system that sees our best player get as much time on the ball as possible? 4-3-1 (Flo) - 2. And bloody get to the ball to Flo's feet rather than Alex "seven seasons and counting" Nicholls!!!!!

Spot on, I have been making this point all season and now with the players in the squad it is about time our manager realised the same and set us up in a system to get the best out of what he has available. Tactics today were naive at best, we created nothing from wide areas (we haven't all season) and our midfield two struggled against the physically stronger opposition. Why did we not sacrifice a wide player and play a more narrow midfield with an extra man to combat their central two, this may even suit Hurst who does have the ability to pick a pass on occasions. We have got to get Flo on the ball in areas of the pitch where he can hurt the opposition, he is a quality player and we should build the system around him. A solid back four should give the manager confidence to try different things in the more advanced positions, I fear continuing with his rigid 4-4-2 policy will see us continually struggle to create chances and score goals.

[Aldridge_saddler]

Only going to point out a couple of things;

I feel that Nicholls ran his socks off and made really bad guano long ball hoofs look like they were trying to be passes.
I agree with the assessment ofmmantom being lightweight, but I think he is better on the ball than Chambers et al.
How was that not a penalty on Manny Smith!?
I thought Sadler had an average game today, Hurst was shocking.
Beevers did extremely well and saved us from loosing close to the end!
Ledesma, hmmmm conundrum, excellent talent but is he what we need!?

[Sadsfan]

That was an awful game of football to have to sit through and I blame Dean Smith for that. Everyone who has been to all the home games this season will know that the aimless long high balls to the forwards doesn't work, and that on the occasions when we have got the ball on the floor we have cut teams apart. So to still be playing hoof ball this far into the season shows that the manager just hasn't got the tactical awareness needed. Hurst, Butler, Smith and Sadler were the worst culprits of that yesterday, and the fact that the manager hasn't addressed this is the reason we will be relegated. Special mention to Beevers though, he is limited as a footballer but at least yesterday he was the only defender that was looking to pass to a red shirt, and pass along the ground.

I also think that Smith's post match comments are often embarrassing in their content and delivery and show he isn't out of his depth, listening to radio WM on the way home it was painful listening to him and Terry Connor who both showed why they shouldn't be in the job they're in.

[Cully]

Lets avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth and rid of Smith, it's all very well keeping the defence organised and even having players play for you, this will only get you so far. If we are ever to progress then we need a manager who can apply the necessary tactics and attacking ideas to push us up the table. It would also be nice of we had a manager who had an eye for a player.

A rubbish season, AGAIN

Correct.

Newsflash: 4-4-2 is not obligatory.

Difficult decision for the board but one which will not be made for all the reasons that have been repeated ad nauseum. I had hoped that Richard O'Kelly would make a significant difference when he first joined, and who knows what influence he had on Dean Smith during the time he was here. I did feel that changes were being made, albeit slight, perhaps leading to different team formations and tactics for our limited and weak squad including the decent signing of Culvelier but in hindsight, it appears that Smith has dominated with tactics, selections and has continued to chance it with our loan signings relying on some 'website paper qualifications' ie plays for a premier league club, is promising, comes highly recommended, got a foreign sounding name or gambling on his own ability to make someone live up to his early career under 14's promise of a footballer from 4th division dross.

Come on Dean, we're stuck with you and you are with us so for goodness sake please try to learn that there are other ways to play, find someone who's judgement of a player can be trusted, look back at your teams best performances and compare them to their worst.............spot anything that might help, anything that might need changing, any players not in their best position?

What do I know, I'm just a supporter.

ps. Get some coaching on what to say to the press or just say nothing.

[chestersaddler]

Lets avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth and rid of Smith, it's all very well keeping the defence organised and even having players play for you, this will only get you so far. If we are ever to progress then we need a manager who can apply the necessary tactics and attacking ideas to push us up the table. It would also be nice of we had a manager who had an eye for a player.

A rubbish season, AGAIN

Correct.

Newsflash: 4-4-2 is not obligatory.

Difficult decision for the board but one which will not be made for all the reasons that have been repeated ad nauseum. I had hoped that Richard O'Kelly would make a significant difference when he first joined, and who knows what influence he had on Dean Smith during the time he was here. I did feel that changes were being made, albeit slight, perhaps leading to different team formations and tactics for our limited and weak squad including the decent signing of Culvelier but in hindsight, it appears that Smith has dominated with tactics, selections and has continued to chance it with our loan signings relying on some 'website paper qualifications' ie plays for a premier league club, is promising, comes highly recommended, got a foreign sounding name or gambling on his own ability to make someone live up to his early career under 14's promise of a footballer from 4th division dross.

Come on Dean, we're stuck with you and you are with us so for goodness sake please try to learn that there are other ways to play, find someone who's judgement of a player can be trusted, look back at your teams best performances and compare them to their worst.............spot anything that might help, anything that might need changing, any players not in their best position?

What do I know, I'm just a supporter.

ps. Get some coaching on what to say to the press or just say nothing.

Still not convinced, then :wink:

[ShyTallKnight]

Dean Smith is inept and will take us down.

[Bernie]

For Dean Smith to keep Ledesma on the bench for 158 consecutive minutes of football over the last two matches, while Hurst was playing on the wing, and then to bring him on to play up front was crazy.

Ledesma makes things happen, but he is not a striker. Hurst is just a nonentity.

[priestley_saddler]

Yesterday was infuriating and frustrating. After eight minutes we'd had the ball in the net three times, Butler's strike sandwiched between strikes from Macken and Nicholls, even though the whistle had gone for a foul comfortably before the shot was hit.

We were on top, dominating, playing good football and even when we took the lead after three minutes, we deserved it because it had been coming.

Then, for reasons best known to nobody, we just stopped playing and started hoofing it. FBIG said higher up the thread that a team fighting relegation were dragged down to the level of the playoff chasers and that's exactly what it was like. The game turned scrappy and by the end a draw was a fair result, which against a playoff chaser you would normally take as a good result.

But it wasn't. We had that game by the scruff of the neck and we chose not to press home our advantage. If we'd have scored a second then we'd have been home and dry, but they got their equaliser (excellent goal), and in the end the only surprise was that they didn't snatch a winner in the 96th minute. It shouldn't have been that way.

Paterson had his worst game in a Walsall shirt, he must have given the ball away 90% of the time he had it and I'd have brought him off at half time for Ledesma. When the change eventually came, Ledesma went up front and Nicholls went wide, which had the effect of nullifying both players. Also, for whatever reason, Grof seems to have lost all his confidence when coming to claim the ball. I don't think he should be replaced, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was.

I'm not going to comment on whether Deano should go or not, as even having the discussion is laughable and it pisses me off so much that it gets mentioned as much as it does.

Massive game Tuesday. UTS!!

[Bernie]

Also, for whatever reason, Grof seems to have lost all his confidence when coming to claim the ball. I don't think he should be replaced, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was.

Did you see Jimmy Walker warming up before the match? He looked as if he was wearing a nappy under his shorts and had a cushion down his shirt.

[priestley_saddler]

Also, for whatever reason, Grof seems to have lost all his confidence when coming to claim the ball. I don't think he should be replaced, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was.

Did you see Jimmy Walker warming up before the match? He looked as if he was wearing a nappy under his shorts and had a cushion down his shirt.

No I didn't :lol:

As I said, I think Grof should keep his place for the rest of the season, but because Wacka is Wacka then I don't think I'd be surprised if Deano gave in to the urge to recall him. He'd be wrong too, but he might do it.

[Willenhall Saddler]

How jolly well guano was that?

First time I've seen most in the lower alsop sit, no-one could be bothered.

I commented on that as well, even you sat down!

[Darth Vader]

How jolly well guano was that?

First time I've seen most in the lower alsop sit, no-one could be bothered.

I commented on that as well, even you sat down!

Staring at my gorgeousness was ya? You filthy scamp xx.

[Willenhall Saddler]

Nope i just noticed :lol: