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Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Reports and reaction from the 2011-2012 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
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Bernie
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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:51 pm

Lone Striker wrote:, I am sick of hearing about Nicholls as a striker, he runs around a lot, is quick, but has never and never will be a striker with a strikers instinct, if he was he would have converted one of the chances tonight and we come away with an undeserved point, something that other teams do throughout the season.


There used be a few posters on this board who thought that if only Nicholls was given a long run as a striker we would be able see whether or not he was good enough to play in that position. Most of us felt that we had seen enough of him over the past five seasons not to be in any doubt about the answer to that question.

Is there anyone left who wants to see more of Nicholls playing up front?

StudentSaddler
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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:53 pm

WFC_Rob wrote:
walsallfcconnor wrote:Walsall team tonight according to Liam Mahers broadcast : Groffy Lee beevers , manny , andy butler , sadler , chambers , taunds , patterson , flo , jarvis and nicholls - with himself on the bench . :)

Don't think he'll be in the squad for much longer if he keeps revealing the team before the teamsheets come out.

Not playing Cuvelier would be criminal, so hopefully he'll get a start. I can see why Smith has gone with Jarvis away from home, but still think Bowerman should play.

Prediction: 1-1.


Seems you were right. :)

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:00 am

Bernie wrote:
Lone Striker wrote:, I am sick of hearing about Nicholls as a striker, he runs around a lot, is quick, but has never and never will be a striker with a strikers instinct, if he was he would have converted one of the chances tonight and we come away with an undeserved point, something that other teams do throughout the season.


There used be a few posters on this board who thought that if only Nicholls was given a long run as a striker we would be able see whether or not he was good enough to play in that position. Most of us felt that we had seen enough of him over the past five seasons not to be in any doubt about the answer to that question.

Is there anyone left who wants to see more of Nicholls playing up front?


Simple fact is that if he plays up front in most games between now and the end of the season we will be relegated, not all his fault but unfortunately simply not good enough

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Sadders
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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:00 am

PT wrote:As others have said, it would be dead easy to suggest that we deserved something from tonight's game and the last minute pen might be seen as some validation of that point of view. But that view would be wrong. For those at the Notts County game a few weeks ago, just think of that first half except with the opposition getting a deserved second and perhaps being a bit unlucky not to get a third.

So the first half was rank and at two-nil down we give it a real go in the second half which was a far more even affair, but it was no better than being an even half with them therefore deserving the win over the ninety minutes.

I don't understand the "where's the passion gone" chant because effort is the one thing these players give. Unfortunately the vast majority of them are just not good enough. It's quality and mental strength we need. At times the quality was laughable. Ten yard passes going wildly astray and first touches that would embarrass a Sunday League Player, a level that some of our squad are barely above.

Their goals were simple affairs, folk popping up in our area in yards of space - keeps happening - it's not bad luck it's bad defending. Our goal was a mistake by their keeper and then we barely touched the ball until the excitement of the final seconds. In a way it was a fitting climax because Alex Nicholls sums up our current squad. Lovely lad, bags of effort but he's not quite good enough. Ditto for the likes of Butler and Taundry - great fellas but not up to the job of being third division footballers, whilst others like Jarvis are nowhere near and others aren't quite ready.

Well done to the other 100 especially those travelling further than myself, what a way to spend Valentine's Day. It was like a really bad date that seemed to pick up towards the end with the invite of coffee, but all it was, was an invite for coffee and the coffee was awful leaving quite a bad taste in the mouth. But I'll go out with her again, cos i love her and have done for 40 years.xxxx



Great post - but I disagree about Butler not being good enough. He's marshalled a defence this season that has a top 10 record in the league with an abysmal bunch of midfielders and attackers infront of him. Because of this the defence come under constant pressure, highlighting even more how we've got a perfectly decent defence in this league. Tonight perhaps was a bad night, but even Manchester United's defence have 5 or 6 shaky performances a season - I can remember 1 or 2 from ours this year. Ironically as i pointed our earlier the only players I'd keep from the bunch that start most weeks and are ready for league one football are, Walker, Grof, Butler, Smith and Sadler. Then a couple of squad players in Paterson, Grigg and Bowerman. The rest quite frankly are conference standard at best.

I agree with your point regarding Nicholls, Taundry, Peterlin etc - nice chaps, bags of effort and commitment but not enough quality for all the huff and puff they offer.

DanWalsallFC
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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:09 am

I think starting Jarvis has confirmed that Dean Smith has ran out of ideas :lol:

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:29 am

Butler not good enough? :shock:

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:09 am

Bonsor will not sack Smith. He has lost interest watching Walsall. He has lost interest in football. He has suffered abuse (justified or not).

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PT
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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:10 am

Darth Vader wrote:Butler not good enough? :shock:


Understand the "shock" and perhaps I was swayed by a really bad performance by him last night. But I think his energy and effort often mask some frankly piss poor technique and ability. Is he really any better than Mark Hughes was a couple of seasons ago? His passing is abysmal and his control awful. Goals at Carlisle and chesterfield highlight this. Then there's the times the centre backs seem to go completely awol and he ends up flailing arms at various folk around him. Happened twice last night, see also the Bournemouth equaliser.

But yes, on reflection perhaps I was a bit harsh and maybe he could just make the bench in a competent League one side..

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priestley_saddler
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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:19 am

PT wrote:I don't understand the "where's the passion gone" chant because effort is the one thing these players give. Unfortunately the vast majority of them are just not good enough. It's quality and mental strength we need. At times the quality was laughable.

I would say that sums the situation up exactly

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:25 am

PT wrote:
Darth Vader wrote:Butler not good enough? :shock:


Understand the "shock" and perhaps I was swayed by a really bad performance by him last night. But I think his energy and effort often mask some frankly pee poor technique and ability. Is he really any better than Mark Hughes was a couple of seasons ago? His passing is abysmal and his control awful. Goals at Carlisle and chesterfield highlight this. Then there's the times the centre backs seem to go completely awol and he ends up flailing arms at various folk around him. Happened twice last night, see also the Bournemouth equaliser.

But yes, on reflection perhaps I was a bit harsh and maybe he could just make the bench in a competent League one side..


Well I for one totally agree with you about Butler. His deficiencies were there for all to see from the very first game he played for us. One thing he does do, is give his heart and soul, which covers alot in football fans eyes. Someone who seems to genuinely want to play for the club, and show passion about it, is always going to have more of a chance than someone like Chambers for example, who basically has been hiding since his first game, and no one has found him yet.

Butlers defensive qualities are very limited, he goes missing far to often. That said, have we anything better ? I don't know, our team is basically a mid table (at best) division 4 side, playing in division 3, and there lies the problem. Add that to dire tactics, that do nothing to get the most out of the poor side we have. Not a good situation.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:33 am

priestley_saddler wrote:
PT wrote:I don't understand the "where's the passion gone" chant because effort is the one thing these players give. Unfortunately the vast majority of them are just not good enough. It's quality and mental strength we need. At times the quality was laughable.

I would say that sums the situation up exactly

I agree.

I posted some time ago that last season Smith's achievement was to galvanise a bunch of underperformers and organise them more effectively. In short, to coach. My fear this season is that we're not underperforming. We really are that bad. Richards and Gray with twenty goals between them (plus numerous assists), Macken a year younger etc...made us a much more competitive outfit offensively.

Changing manager - which I first thought as the right move a few weeks ago - won't improve the calibre of our players, irrespective of how they are organised. All it may do is enable a few good loanees to be sourced, and see some perennial flops (Nicholls, Taundry) dropped. The margins between staying up and going down are so tight that it may be enough. Wouldn't bet on it though.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:53 am

King Crimson wrote:
priestley_saddler wrote:
PT wrote:I don't understand the "where's the passion gone" chant because effort is the one thing these players give. Unfortunately the vast majority of them are just not good enough. It's quality and mental strength we need. At times the quality was laughable.

I would say that sums the situation up exactly

I agree.

I posted some time ago that last season Smith's achievement was to galvanise a bunch of underperformers and organise them more effectively. In short, to coach. My fear this season is that we're not underperforming. We really are that bad. Richards and Gray with twenty goals between them (plus numerous assists), Macken a year younger etc...made us a much more competitive outfit offensively.

Changing manager - which I first thought as the right move a few weeks ago - won't improve the calibre of our players, irrespective of how they are organised. All it may do is enable a few good loanees to be sourced, and see some perennial flops (Nicholls, Taundry) dropped. The margins between staying up and going down are so tight that it may be enough. Wouldn't bet on it though.


The loss of Gray in particular was a bitter blow. I couldn't stand the bloke for how god dam lazy he was, but he made goals happen, and that is what we don't have right now. I wasn't over fussed with Richards, especially towards the back end of last season, but as you said, he pitched in with valuable goals and assists, that no one has replaced.

I think there is more to it with Smith than just having a poor side (which we do) and he hasn't strengthened it with the players he has bought in. However his tactics have been horrible this season, Horrible tactics are fine if they are getting you results, or even getting the most out of the players you have, but this clearly isn't the case with Walsall.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:09 am

I agree, BS.

But I think our tactics are driven by the capacity we have in the squad. Last season Smith made some tactical errors for sure, but he also got it bang on more often than not.

I imagine that Smith doesn't think some of our players are capable of much elaborate - and he'd be right. Hence, horrible tactics befitting a poor squad. Vicious circle.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:23 am

Having watched our horrible display last night I can't disagree with anything that other witnesses have said.

Our club is so deficient in so many ways:
the playing squad which is patently worse than the one which scraped clear of the relegation trap-door last year due to the deficiencies of others, the abysmal tactics Smith employs which do not play to our limited strengths, the lack of confidence which is now rife within the squad not to mention the embarrassment of our new scoreboard that was clearly obtained from the same suppliers that sourced the 'Stonehenge' stage set which Spinal Tap used on their ill-fated final America tour!

Proud to be a Saddler - I am and always will be, but it's hard to justify sometimes.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:24 am

Blazing_Saddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
priestley_saddler wrote:
PT wrote:I don't understand the "where's the passion gone" chant because effort is the one thing these players give. Unfortunately the vast majority of them are just not good enough. It's quality and mental strength we need. At times the quality was laughable.

I would say that sums the situation up exactly

I agree.

I posted some time ago that last season Smith's achievement was to galvanise a bunch of underperformers and organise them more effectively. In short, to coach. My fear this season is that we're not underperforming. We really are that bad. Richards and Gray with twenty goals between them (plus numerous assists), Macken a year younger etc...made us a much more competitive outfit offensively.

Changing manager - which I first thought as the right move a few weeks ago - won't improve the calibre of our players, irrespective of how they are organised. All it may do is enable a few good loanees to be sourced, and see some perennial flops (Nicholls, Taundry) dropped. The margins between staying up and going down are so tight that it may be enough. Wouldn't bet on it though.


The loss of Gray in particular was a bitter blow. I couldn't stand the bloke for how god dam lazy he was, but he made goals happen, and that is what we don't have right now. I wasn't over fussed with Richards, especially towards the back end of last season, but as you said, he pitched in with valuable goals and assists, that no one has replaced.

I think there is more to it with Smith than just having a poor side (which we do) and he hasn't strengthened it with the players he has bought in. However his tactics have been horrible this season, Horrible tactics are fine if they are getting you results, or even getting the most out of the players you have, but this clearly isn't the case with Walsall.

I would argue that for the most part they have been getting us results. This squad of players isn't good enough to win games and I think Smith knows this. If you can't win, then failing that you mustn't lose. We set up to not lose rather than to win. One works most of the time, the other never does.

If Deano keeps this side up I would say it surpasses last seasons achievements

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:27 am

King Crimson wrote:I agree, BS.

But I think our tactics are driven by the capacity we have in the squad. Last season Smith made some tactical errors for sure, but he also got it bang on more often than not.

I imagine that Smith doesn't think some of our players are capable of much elaborate - and he'd be right. Hence, horrible tactics befitting a poor squad. Vicious circle.



Yes, I understand we aren't going to take teams apart in the style of Barcelona, but if we insist on playing the tactics we are, would it not have made sense to at least sign someone to play upfront with a bit of muscle, or who can win a header now and then ? I know he hasn't got much money to work with, but how much would it cost for a human battering ram? Probably less than Jarvis. We also had a player who was useful in the air, although not a striker, who is no longer with us.

I don't like the way we play, but if I could at least see what he was trying to do, I would be more happy to cut him some slack, but to be quite honest, we have more often than not looked clueless this season.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:07 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93fmpnl90_4&feature=youtu.be

Nicho's penalty miss if you'd like a laugh.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:48 am

Quod apodidae velox in oblivio.

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Pedro
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Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:06 pm

The Steak and Kidney Pies where nice, so I had 2.

Their car was a complete mess.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:28 pm

Darth Vader wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93fmpnl90_4&feature=youtu.be

Nicho's penalty miss if you'd like a laugh.



Strangely enough, that didn't make me laugh :(

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:52 pm

Darth Vader wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93fmpnl90_4&feature=youtu.be

Nicho's penalty miss if you'd like a laugh.


Nothing to laugh about.

I have just looked at the penalty Nicholls scored at Carlisle.

It was almost identical to the one Oldham. He made it very clear which side he was aiming at, and only stroked the ball at half pace to the goalkeeper's left. The goalie got a hand to it and a decent keeper would have saved it. At Oldham the ball was midway between the goalkeeper and the post, and at a nice height, so once the keeper had guessed the right way (and that was not difficult) is was bound to be saved.

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:39 pm

chestersaddler wrote:Looking forward to Ancient Moaner's match report later :mrgreen:



Shall I give the players thier scores?

The Frenchy sounding guy 2, one for being the only player on the pitch who can pass to another player in red
And one for scoring a goal...oh great joy.
The rest 0
Weem gewin down..nothing more certain. more from me later after I've watched Arsenal get hammered...
A chance for me to calm down a bit before I 'report'.. :(

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Re: Oldham Athletic (A) League 1 Tuesday 14/2/12.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:19 pm

Had a really good look through all the posts above, and to be honest I can't add much more, it has all been said, last night we were so pith poor that it was laughably embarrassing, and last night I was not the only one who thought it.
Three regulars sitting behind me gave up and went home half way through the second half! It is blindingly obvious that we will never win a football match again this season. Smith is clueless and the Board is gutless, pretty damning really.
So its Burton Albion, Fleetwood, Barnet & Macclesfield then.
Good to meet up with a lot of old friends again last night...we really must organise a NUTS night out again...I'll contact Simon and see what can be done.

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