Brentford (A) League 1 Saturday 14/1/12.

[deanonev69]

Just back from London (me and the better half had a night down there booked for a bit) and only now am i reading the reviews in the press: the BBC described it as "uninspiring" with one paper describing it as a "bore draw". As 0-0 draws go, i didn't think it was that bad and i think we deserved our point. We defended well, especially in second half when they had corner after corner but their best chance came from a good through ball which Donaldson latched onto which Super Jim snuffed out as he has so many times over the years. The defence played outstanding throughout, as has been said repeatedly in this thread.

We need to start winning some home games though: Yeovil and Rochdale in March and Exeter in April could be big away days for us.

[brackley]

and up front we need to find a long-term solution and alternative to Macken...... a striker with pace and an eye for goal. For me Macken is a player that we should bringing on for the last 15 minutes of a game at his age not giving him the bulk of games from the start....

Pace and an eye for goal would be great - but to suggest we need to keep Macken on the bench is madness. Key to being able to put pressure on teams is the ability to hold the ball in their half. To use a Premier League example, Spurs have been able to play so well this season because they have a focal point in Adebayor up front who holds the ball up and brings others into play. Like him or not, that's the job Macken does for us.

Our style of football means we absolutely have to have a focal point/target man like Macken. None of our other strikers have an impact with their back to goal. We've seen what happens when, without Macken, we partner Nicholls with the likes of Grigg or Paterson - we have absolutely zero impact in the opposition's half of the pitch.

holding the ball up as Macken does is fine, but you can not afford the luxury of having such a one-dimensional player in the side whose only asset is doing this......by playing Macken you heap all the pressure on Nicholls to cover the yards and create the movement and attacking options. Paterson to some degree has eased this but just think if we had a player up front who could also inject some pace and movement off the ball as well as holding it up we would have a whole different proposition on our hands!!

[Ancient Moaner]

If Smith doesn't rate Bowerman highly enough then signing a decent finisher in the transfer window is crucial, not least because our relegation rivals are already addressing this.

Trotta (on loan from Fulham) has scored 8 in 8 for Wycombe, while Brett Ormerod (on loan from Blackpool) is a reasonably decent signing for Rochdale and scored yesterday. Of course, both Wycombe and Rochdale are leaking goals at an horrendous rate at the moment so scoring goals might not actually keep them up. As alluded to above, scoring more goals would almost certainly keep us up, however, which is why it's so important for Smith to get someone in and for Gamble to find a bit extra in the budget to help him do it, if possible.

No sniggering at the back, please.

As John Lennon would have said "I knew this would happen, and YOU knew this would happen" In a similar context WE all know that your well meaning suggestion, felt by us all without doubt, that we DESPERATELY need a striker in order to stave off relegation,won't happen. What we have is what we'll get. Deano seems to think we have the wherewithall in our squad
to avoid the drop, sure we are defending reasonably well (until injury time that is! snigger), but we can't score..the most crucial element in the game of footy, until this failing is redressed we are doomed...good defence or not, a combination of losing and drawing for the rest of the season won't keep us up I'm afraid.

[chestersaddler]

If Smith doesn't rate Bowerman highly enough then signing a decent finisher in the transfer window is crucial, not least because our relegation rivals are already addressing this.

Trotta (on loan from Fulham) has scored 8 in 8 for Wycombe, while Brett Ormerod (on loan from Blackpool) is a reasonably decent signing for Rochdale and scored yesterday. Of course, both Wycombe and Rochdale are leaking goals at an horrendous rate at the moment so scoring goals might not actually keep them up. As alluded to above, scoring more goals would almost certainly keep us up, however, which is why it's so important for Smith to get someone in and for Gamble to find a bit extra in the budget to help him do it, if possible.

No sniggering at the back, please.

As John Lennon would have said "I knew this would happen, and YOU knew this would happen" In a similar context WE all know that your well meaning suggestion, felt by us all without doubt, that we DESPERATELY need a striker in order to stave off relegation,won't happen. What we have is what we'll get. Deano seems to think we have the wherewithall in our squad
to avoid the drop, sure we are defending reasonably well (until injury time that is! snigger), but we can't score..the most crucial element in the game of footy, until this failing is redressed we are doomed...good defence or not, a combination of losing and drawing for the rest of the season won't keep us up I'm afraid.

There are times on here I despair :x Look at the facts before posting nonsense.

In the last 10 league games, we have failed to score in only three of them, and all have resulted in 0-0 draws. Two of them were very credible away draws at Stevenage an Brentford, the other a disappointing stalemate at home to Rochdale.

Last week we were 2-0 up before snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

It's not that we can't score, it's that we are not out scoring the opposition.

Simples!

[Ancient Moaner]

If Smith doesn't rate Bowerman highly enough then signing a decent finisher in the transfer window is crucial, not least because our relegation rivals are already addressing this.

Trotta (on loan from Fulham) has scored 8 in 8 for Wycombe, while Brett Ormerod (on loan from Blackpool) is a reasonably decent signing for Rochdale and scored yesterday. Of course, both Wycombe and Rochdale are leaking goals at an horrendous rate at the moment so scoring goals might not actually keep them up. As alluded to above, scoring more goals would almost certainly keep us up, however, which is why it's so important for Smith to get someone in and for Gamble to find a bit extra in the budget to help him do it, if possible.

No sniggering at the back, please.

As John Lennon would have said "I knew this would happen, and YOU knew this would happen" In a similar context WE all know that your well meaning suggestion, felt by us all without doubt, that we DESPERATELY need a striker in order to stave off relegation,won't happen. What we have is what we'll get. Deano seems to think we have the wherewithall in our squad
to avoid the drop, sure we are defending reasonably well (until injury time that is! snigger), but we can't score..the most crucial element in the game of footy, until this failing is redressed we are doomed...good defence or not, a combination of losing and drawing for the rest of the season won't keep us up I'm afraid.

There are times on here I despair :x Look at the facts before posting nonsense.

In the last 10 league games, we have failed to score in only three of them, and all have resulted in 0-0 draws. Two of them were very credible away draws at Stevenage an Brentford, the other a disappointing stalemate at home to Rochdale.

Last week we were 2-0 up before snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

It's not that we can't score, it's that we are not out scoring the opposition.

Simples!

Forgive me if I'm wrong Chester, but ain't that the whole point? In those last ten fabulous games who many have we ACTUALLY won? As a ref I was always led to believe that the victorious team was the one that WON the match?

[chestersaddler]

If Smith doesn't rate Bowerman highly enough then signing a decent finisher in the transfer window is crucial, not least because our relegation rivals are already addressing this.

Trotta (on loan from Fulham) has scored 8 in 8 for Wycombe, while Brett Ormerod (on loan from Blackpool) is a reasonably decent signing for Rochdale and scored yesterday. Of course, both Wycombe and Rochdale are leaking goals at an horrendous rate at the moment so scoring goals might not actually keep them up. As alluded to above, scoring more goals would almost certainly keep us up, however, which is why it's so important for Smith to get someone in and for Gamble to find a bit extra in the budget to help him do it, if possible.

No sniggering at the back, please.

As John Lennon would have said "I knew this would happen, and YOU knew this would happen" In a similar context WE all know that your well meaning suggestion, felt by us all without doubt, that we DESPERATELY need a striker in order to stave off relegation,won't happen. What we have is what we'll get. Deano seems to think we have the wherewithall in our squad
to avoid the drop, sure we are defending reasonably well (until injury time that is! snigger), but we can't score..the most crucial element in the game of footy, until this failing is redressed we are doomed...good defence or not, a combination of losing and drawing for the rest of the season won't keep us up I'm afraid.

There are times on here I despair :x Look at the facts before posting nonsense.

In the last 10 league games, we have failed to score in only three of them, and all have resulted in 0-0 draws. Two of them were very credible away draws at Stevenage an Brentford, the other a disappointing stalemate at home to Rochdale.

Last week we were 2-0 up before snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

It's not that we can't score, it's that we are not out scoring the opposition.

Simples!

Forgive me if I'm wrong Chester, but ain't that the whole point? In those last ten fabulous games who many have we ACTUALLY won? As a ref I was always led to believe that the victorious team was the one that WON the match?

I was referring to your post where you state that we can't score, which is not correct as the record shows.

[geoffwhiting]

I was referring to your post where you state that we can't score, which is not correct as the record shows.

I think you're splitting hairs here though, Chester, being pedantic, call it what you will.

The point is we seem to be making more chances, an improvement over a few weeks, but we are missing most of them and failing to win games as a result (except vs. SheffW of course). If we continue to draw games, we shall go down, absolutely without question. Much better if we win - lose, win - lose, at least that way we get 3 points every other game instead of being unbeaten, which seems nice but in reality gets us 2 points for two draws.

We are well down the table as regards goalscoring, we DON'T score goals at anywhere near a high enough percentage of chances created, and this WILL send us down unless it's addressed. Nicholls is clearly unable to convert chances into enough goals and needs to be replaced quickly - he's had enough chances and has proved himself unreliable when it comes to finishing. Grigg isn't up to it yet, Bowerman is perhaps our best prospect but you can't place the burden on his shoulders at his age and experience.

This month is last chance saloon in the search for a striker, and we're already half-way through it. The club needs to move urgently to bring in reinforcements with the minimum of delay.

[Duke]

Got to be delighted with the result . splendid effort

[Fray Bentos is God!]

The horrible thing is that if we turned half our draws into wins, we'd be looking lovely. Which is why talk of sacking Smith is ridiculous. We new a better midfield. Goals will come if this is resolved.

Defence - not a problem.

[chestersaddler]

2-2 v Scunthorpe. They equalised in stoppage time
2-3 v Sheffield Utd having led 2-0
1-1 v Chesterfiefd. They equalised in stoppage time
2-2 v Bournemouth. see above.

There's 8/9 points lost which are not down to our strike force.

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Rochdale - could've easily won that.

[chestersaddler]

Rochdale - could've easily won that.

Ar, should have been home and hosed by half time. That one was down to pee poor finishing, but my point stands that it ay as black and white as some would make out.

1-0 to the Arsenal?

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Eh, I'm with you on your point. I'm just thinking of wins we could've plucked from our draws. I think it's a midfield problem. Not a striker problem.

[tinned]

Not disputing your facts Chester but if we get relegated it will be due to our lack of goals, nothing else. Yesterday was like many games this season, didn't play too badly but you could tell from early on that, without a massive slice of luck, there was no way we were scoring.

[chestersaddler]

Not disputing your facts Chester but if we get relegated it will be due to our lack of goals, nothing else. Yesterday was like many games this season, didn't play too badly but you could tell from early on that, without a massive slice of luck, there was no way we were scoring.

I take comfort from the fact that we are competitive in most games. I honestly think that we will nick a few 1-0's between now and the end of he season which will keep us up.

[brummie saddler]

"Just a fat lad from Masnfield" are fans and players dont super jim proud today, some of the chanting for him in breaks of play was some of the loudest i have heard, i know for a fact he had a smug smile on his face on many occassions because of us.

Well done to all that made the effort and made this day memorable.

[WFC_Rob]

The horrible thing is that if we turned half our draws into wins, we'd be looking lovely.

Turning even a quarter of them into wins would see us well clear of the drop zone.

Not sure I can agree with you using that point in Smith's defence though. His recruits and tactics are why we're unable to bridge the gap between relegation struggle and mid-table comfort.

[hullsaddler]

As nil-nil draws go I thought it was quite enjoyable & if we were mid-table it would have been perfectly satisfactory but obviously as has been said we need more than that in our position. Shaking hands with Wacka at the end was excellent and I was so pleased with his performance on such an occasion ( & especially that there were no disasters). Presumably he has a mate in the Brentford side as one of them gave him a really big hug at the end.
Didn't think you could tell any difference in league position in the sides from their performances.

[traymondo]

"Just a fat lad from Masnfield" are fans and players dont super jim proud today, some of the chanting for him in breaks of play was some of the loudest i have heard, i know for a fact he had a smug smile on his face on many occassions because of us.

Well done to all that made the effort and made this day memorable.

+1
A cracking day all round. Decent pints in the Griffin, great support and a very good performance. Sound defence, good work rate, our counter-attacking with Jamie and Alex is a real threat. Shame they couldn't convert. Wacka's last ditch save in the second half was TOP DRAWER, but it's hardly been mentioned and wasn't on the Beeb's highlights either. We celebrated that as much as any goal. The guy remains a leg end, top top man.
Onward and upward, eh?

[Ancient Moaner]

Rochdale - could've easily won that.

Ar, should have been home and hosed by half time. That one was down to pee poor finishing, but my point stands that it ay as black and white as some would make out.

1-0 to the Arsenal?

And Richard Money to lift the gloom at Brizzle Rovers with a series of 1-0 wins?

Back to our earlier scuffle in the playground..........

I've just reviewed the stats:

From 33 games played so far..we have failed to score at all in 9 matches (granted one was against Middlesborough who mullered us).
we have scored ONE goal only in 16 matches.
In 7 matches we have managed to score 2 goals. Wow, only come to see the Saddlers Eh!
We have scored 3 goals in one match only, and that took 120 minutes of play!

I rest my case my'lod.....whatever the in's and outs of the matter we all want us to escape relegation :) , I can't relish the thought of cold winters days out at Barnet, Macclesfield or Aldershot!!

[chestersaddler]

Rochdale - could've easily won that.

Ar, should have been home and hosed by half time. That one was down to pee poor finishing, but my point stands that it ay as black and white as some would make out.

1-0 to the Arsenal?

And Richard Money to lift the gloom at Brizzle Rovers with a series of 1-0 wins?

Back to our earlier scuffle in the playground..........

I've just reviewed the stats:

From 33 games played so far..we have failed to score at all in 9 matches (granted one was against Middlesborough who mullered us).
we have scored ONE goal only in 16 matches.
In 7 matches we have managed to score 2 goals. Wow, only come to see the Saddlers Eh!
We have scored 3 goals in one match only, and that took 120 minutes of play!

I rest my case my'lod.....whatever the in's and outs of the matter we all want us to escape relegation :) , I can't relish the thought of cold winters days out at Barnet, Macclesfield or Aldershot!!

Been busy today AM :D

So you agree then, 1-0 to the Arsenal :wink:

[Ancient Moaner]

Rochdale - could've easily won that.

Ar, should have been home and hosed by half time. That one was down to pee poor finishing, but my point stands that it ay as black and white as some would make out.

1-0 to the Arsenal?

And Richard Money to lift the gloom at Brizzle Rovers with a series of 1-0 wins?

Back to our earlier scuffle in the playground..........

I've just reviewed the stats:

From 33 games played so far..we have failed to score at all in 9 matches (granted one was against Middlesborough who mullered us).
we have scored ONE goal only in 16 matches.
In 7 matches we have managed to score 2 goals. Wow, only come to see the Saddlers Eh!
We have scored 3 goals in one match only, and that took 120 minutes of play!

I rest my case my'lod.....whatever the in's and outs of the matter we all want us to escape relegation :) , I can't relish the thought of cold winters days out at Barnet, Macclesfield or Aldershot!!

Been busy today AM :D

So you agree then, 1-0 to the Arsenal :wink:

Try and make ourselves known to each other at some stage and I'll buy ya a drink or two, promise! :D

[Bernie]

2-2 v Scunthorpe. They equalised in stoppage time
2-3 v Sheffield Utd having led 2-0
1-1 v Chesterfiefd. They equalised in stoppage time
2-2 v Bournemouth. see above.

There's 8/9 points lost which are not down to our strike force.

Let me see if I understand you? You are arguing that as long as the team scores a goal or two then the forwards cannot be blamed if we do not go on to win the match?

So presumably you think the fact that we have failed to score more than two goals in any of our 26 league matches so far this season cannot be blamed on the strike force? That's all right then. I suppose the fact that only Coventry and Tranmere, of the 92 clubs, have also failed to score more than two goals in any league match, and that we sit only one goal above the bottom of the league one goal scoring chart, and rock bottom of the chart of accuracy of shooting - also has nothing whatever to do with the quality of the strike force.

[chestersaddler]

2-2 v Scunthorpe. They equalised in stoppage time
2-3 v Sheffield Utd having led 2-0
1-1 v Chesterfiefd. They equalised in stoppage time
2-2 v Bournemouth. see above.

There's 8/9 points lost which are not down to our strike force.

Let me see if I understand you? You are arguing that as long as the team scores a goal or two then the forwards cannot be blamed if we do not go on to win the match?

So presumably you think the fact that we have failed to score more than two goals in any of our 26 league matches so far this season cannot be blamed on the strike force? That's all right then. I suppose the fact that only Coventry and Tranmere, of the 92 clubs, have also failed to score more than two goals in any league match, and that we sit only one goal above the bottom of the league one goal scoring chart, and rock bottom of the chart of accuracy of shooting - also has nothing whatever to do with the quality of the strike force.

No, I am not saying that at all.

I am contending that the raw statistics do not necessarily tell the whole story. The fixtures I listed above in which we were unable to see out the game, are as much a factor in our league position as our low scoring is. Last season, we were shipping goals at a rate which meant that we often needed to score twice to get a point. Smith has addressed this, maybe to the point where we are a little too defensive. Having said that, it is the lack of a decent midfield linking play between defence and attack which is the main issue in my view.

As for the strikers, I do think that we lack a natural finisher, which becomes more of a problem when the team creates few chances. The likelihood of us finding someone that fits the bill, however, are pretty remote given the salary we are willing to pay.

[WFC_Rob]

As for the strikers, I do think that we lack a natural finisher, which becomes more of a problem when the team creates few chances. The likelihood of us finding someone that fits the bill, however, are pretty remote given the salary we are willing to pay.

Bowerman has shown that he's as good a natural finisher as we've got. Frustratingly though, Smith seems to think that's not enough - hence his omission from the squad over recent weeks.

The fact that we now have a striker on trial who has failed to score for Bradford, Mansfield and Darlington is an insult.

[Rich Evans]

As for the strikers, I do think that we lack a natural finisher, which becomes more of a problem when the team creates few chances. The likelihood of us finding someone that fits the bill, however, are pretty remote given the salary we are willing to pay.

Bowerman has shown that he's as good a natural finisher as we've got. Frustratingly though, Smith seems to think that's not enough - hence his omission from the squad over recent weeks.

The fact that we now have a striker on trial who has failed to score for Bradford, Mansfield and Darlington is an insult.

I think i can see what smith is thinking.

In Bowerman we have a naturall finisher who plays high up on the last defenders shoulder and creates chances that way yet having him on the pitch at the expense of who is the question.

Bowerman for Macken and you potentially lose the ability to have someone hold the ball up field and bring others into play and utilise some pace from Nicholls

Bowerman for Nicholls and potentially you will lose pace from deep and the few crosses that we have had have come from Nicholls

Its a fine balancing act i know and thats why i just try to enjoy the football and not get too involved in that side of things.

[tinned]

Bowerman for Nicholls and potentially you will lose pace from deep and the few crosses that we have had have come from Nicholls.

A greyhound has pace ...... and probably about as much chance of sticking the ball in the net as Nicholls.

What a waste to see Bowerman standing behind the goals with us. Smith needs his bumps feeling :roll:

[Bernie]

As for the strikers, I do think that we lack a natural finisher, which becomes more of a problem when the team creates few chances.

I agree with you there.

The trouble with our main strikers this season is that as well as not being natural finishers they are also very poor at creating chances for their team mates. There is a role for a forward who does not score many goals as long as he contributes by winning the ball in tough areas and then using it to make a half chance for his partner. That is simply not happening, and it is the reason why we are not making many chances, and have had to rely on long range inaccurate efforts.

Pedagogue has pointed out that the idea that Macken contributes a lot by often winning the ball and holding on to it well is a myth. Nobody even suggests that Nicholls is any good at that sort of thing.

[latviancheese]

I undertsand a hype around Bowerman and maybe he should play a bit more, but where does this "natural finisher", "quality player" etc come from. Talk about getting ahead of yourselves.

Will Grigg is apparently a natural finisher, and so was Gary Birch before him :roll:

[brummie saddler]

I undertsand a hype around Bowerman and maybe he should play a bit more, but where does this "natural finisher", "quality player" etc come from. Talk about getting ahead of yourselves.

Will Grigg is apparently a natural finisher, and so was Gary Birch before him :roll:

i seen bowerman score a hat trick past Joe Murphy last season, one well headed goal, one good finish, and one chip that was on par if not better than cantonas.