Bury (A) League 1 Monday 2/1/12.

[Darth Vader]

297 Saddlers, just announced.

[Darth Vader]

Walsall pressing...

[chestersaddler]

Started better this half

3 corners early on

[Welsh_Saddler]

Gnakpa and Taundry on as subs for Jarvis and Peterlin.

We move back up one place in the table, as Exeter equalise against Yeovil.

.... 76 minutes - Kevan Hurst on for Andy Halliday (I'm not too hopeful at this stage)

[Darth Vader]

cack.

[chestersaddler]

Cack

2-1 FT

[ShyTallKnight]

Smith - just go now.

[stig231]

Gnakpa and Taundry on as subs for Jarvis and Peterlin.

We move back up one place in the table, as Exeter equalise against Yeovil.

.... 76 minutes - Kevan Hurst on for Andy Halliday (I'm not too hopeful at this stage)

....and leave our leading scorer on the bench while we have been behind since the 40th min. Yes,he didn't play well on Sat (and he wasn't the only one) but if Smith had no intention of bringing him on , and surely the only way Macken would have come on today is if we were losing , he should have named Bowerman or Grigg as sub.

If we had one chance , I personally would rather it go to any of those 3 than anyone who was left on the pitch at the end.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

We are two points above 23rd place,it is time to panic I feel.

[bangsection]

I know this result will bring all the Peter Panics out of the woodwork but we deserved a point today. Much better performance in the second half but the team selection was undeniably strange. The rehabilitation of Jarvis looked pre-planned given Smith's foray into the press last week to big him up. I understand that Macken probably can't play two games in three days these days but as mentioned above why put him on the bench and choose Jarvis over Grigg or Bowerman. Halliday was poor. If Hurst is fit why not start him?

We definitely need reinforcements in January but they need to be Wilson level, not Halliday level. Bury were poor but Schumacher and Sweeney (to name just two) would walk into our side. With a bit of luck (ie the spawny deflection that led to Bury's opener) we'd have got something today but we're still crying out for a cutting edge up front. It's not results like this that will send us down, but our home results against teams like Rochdale, Yeovil, Exeter and Scunthorpe just might.

[WFC_Rob]

Tactically, I haven't a clue what goes through Smith's mind.

His justification for keeping Taundry in the side was that he works hard, closes down and makes it hard for the opposition. If Taundry could only play one of the two games this week, surely it should have been today, away from home, rather than at home to Rochdale when we needed to attack them and really go for all three points.

Jarvis playing in place of Macken makes sense - he's the only striker we have other than Macken who can hold off a defender and keep things simple. If you want to take your target man off however, don't continue to play hopeful (at best) long balls up to Nicholls and Paterson. It's the footballing equivalent to filling your petrol engine with diesel - it just won't work.

If we're going to play these long ball tactics, Gnakpa needs to be playing. He might not have a gem of a first touch or the quick feet of Ronaldo, but he's massive, he'll hold the ball and he'll win his headers. It's not the sort of football I'd like to see us playing, but needs must - if we're going to play that way, let's at least get players in the side who can make the most of those tactics.

Just to add, we've been beaten 6-2 on aggregate this season by Bury - a newly promoted side with a lower average attendence than ours. Proof to those of you who keep saying Smith's hands are tied that you can make something of yourselves at this level by playing the game how it should be played with players who can control and pass a football. And it is possible to pick up players on loan from Premier League clubs (of which we have 3 within a 20-minute drive) who can make an impact.

[Jolly Johnny]

Just got back in and what a disappointing afternoon that was. Strange starting line up choices, bringing Jarvis and Halliday back in, and it basically didn't work.

First half we were wack. Couldn't keep the ball, continually gave it away by not passing it to each other or by just hoofing it up the pitch (Beever and Peterlin biggest culprits of this) supposedly towards Jarvis, who either couldn't win / get it, fell over, or just fouled either of their centre half. He probably touched it 5 times in the first half, if that. He wasn't the answer if it was Smith's aim to 'rest' Macken today (more on that later). But then, he had no one within 15-20 yards of him in support anyway. Bury were all over us for a spell and Sadler was getting murdered by Amoo (more on that later too!). Jimmy made a great save to his left and Beever sliced a clearance over our bar but no surprise they took the lead as we were scared to tackle Amoo. He waltzed into the box and a cross / shot was deflected off Sadler past Jimmy. Our biggest threat was Paterson (again!) who at least ran with the ball and looked inventive. Against the run of play he scored our equaliser from a free kick. Straight away we gave it away. Foul (possibly) by Butler and Sweeney curled it over the wall, hit post and off Jimmy, squeezing past him into the net. No less than Bury deserved for the first half. Nicholls (out wide just doesn't work for him), Halliday and Peterlin were anonymous 1st half and Sweeny and Schumacher were coasting in midfield while Jarvis was making Hughes look a really good centre half (always thought he was pretty solid).

At half time we were saying that Gnakpa should have started up top as he could at least win some headers, and that surely a change would be made, but no! To be fair we started much better second half and for the first 12-15 mins we had some urgency, some movement and actually pressed Bury into mistakes, giving us possession and time in their half. We looked a little threatening! But Bury soon re-asserted themselves and we petered out. It wasn't until the last 5 mins, bunging Butler up front, that we looked urgent or threatening again. Eventually Gnakpa and @taundz came on. But, rather than Gnapka play up top to knock down for Nicholls and Paterson, Smith put Nicholls in the centre and Gnakpa out right!?! He won 90% of the headers he jumped for as always, but not once did anyone learn where to run to attack and get onto it! Nicholls was ineffective in the centre by himself, and we too regularly went side to side rather than playing people in or actually shooting. We have a lot to work on. Classic frustration moment came second half when Sadler broke after a Bury corner, Nicholls ran across to the right channel (obvious ball to play him in) but Sadler tries a hollywood ball across to Halliday, he loses it and we lose all momentum of a great countering opportunity. Paterson tried to win a penalty rather than play the ball to someone once in the area, which summed up our day.

After 3 games in a week, and only 4 points, we are back to where we are before Boxing Day - worried and not looking that good or with much of plan to how we change things. I have never been in the vocal 'Smith Out' camp, but today was frustrating and he appeared to get some key things wrong. If you're going to play with pace (nicholls, paterson) you need to use it better, surely. Gnakpa should have been up front if macken wasn't playing today. Putting claude up front so he could knock down balls to Alex and Jamie to cut in and run on to is much more effective surely than him running out to in to knock balls that others don't pick up. If he is going to play out right, he needs to run at people. David Amoo did this perfectly. He got the ball and he ran at people and looked threatening every time. Then you either time your tackle well to win the ball (hard to do) or give a foul away. We don't have anyone who wants to run at defenders with the ball. Our wingers play with back to goal most of the time so have to just lay it off. Paterson was our most effective threat but he still gives the ball away too much by doing flicks, tricks etc rather than the best choice. Not many wingers can do all the trick stuff effectively - it took the likes of Nani seasons to learn that, so lets be more simple for a while. My man of ther matches? Sweeney and (second half) Schumacher. Not our players I know but they peed all over Chambers and Peterlin / Taundry today. Why didn't we go in for him when he was leaving relegated Grimsby. Surely, he'd have chosen us over the then 4th division Bury? On evidence of today, he is still a good league 1 centre mid. Should end on a positive I guess - good to see Hurst getting back on the pitch. As PT said to me at half time - there are times when we don't look that far away - but we have just got to get a few basic, obvious things right.

[Jolly Johnny]

I know this result will bring all the Peter Panics out of the woodwork but we deserved a point today. Much better performance in the second half but the team selection was undeniably strange.

Really? I thought Bury were much the better team, even with our better second half and 15 mins of putting them under pressure and would have been disappointed not to win that game. Agree with the second sentence.

We definitely need reinforcements in January but they need to be Wilson level, not Halliday level. Bury were poor but Schumacher and Sweeney (to name just two) would walk into our side. We're still crying out for a cutting edge up front. It's not results like this that will send us down, but our home results against teams like Rochdale, Yeovil, Exeter and Scunthorpe just might.

Agree on all that. As mentioned in my match report, Sweeney and Schumacher cacked all over Chambers and Peterlin today.

[Jolly Johnny]

Tactically, I haven't a clue what goes through Smith's mind.
If we're going to play these long ball tactics, Gnakpa needs to be playing. He might not have a gem of a first touch or the quick feet of Ronaldo, but he's massive, he'll hold the ball and he'll win his headers. It's not the sort of football I'd like to see us playing, but needs must - if we're going to play that way, let's at least get players in the side who can make the most of those tactics.

Bang on Rob. Exactly what I put in my match report post and what some of us were discussing at half time.

Just to add, we've been beaten 6-2 on aggregate this season by Bury - a newly promoted side with a lower average attendence than ours. Proof to those of you who keep saying Smith's hands are tied that you can make something of yourselves at this level by playing the game how it should be played with players who can control and pass a football. And it is possible to pick up players on loan from Premier League clubs (of which we have 3 within a 20-minute drive) who can make an impact.

Spot on again. Driving home, I hearn Brendan Rogers say about his swansea side and they way they play football on five live, "there are stacks of english players who can pass and play good football, if you ask them to play that way." Made me think, we have got some better footballers than we are seeing at times on the pitch. Yes, we could do with better quality midfielders ideally, but at the start of the season / preseason, we were passing the ball better than we are now. I wonder what goes on, on the training pitch.

[Reading Saddler]

Well they are four points off play off we're the weaker team and away. I expected four points off the last three games and we got them so I hope we have a good year.

[PT]

Agree with JJ's summary.

This team don't lack in effort at all which is good, but it does mean we're on full beam all of the time just to get close to matching teams like Bury and Rochdale which demonstrates the lack of quality we have.

Four points from the three Christmas games is about right and we could have got them in any sequence. We missed Manny at both ends of the pitch which again speaks volumes for our attack who are flat-footed beyond belief. Nicholls looks permanently dazed and tries to react to everything without anticipating anything. We know Gnapka wins his fair share in the air so why Nicholls et al don't gamble and run beyond him is mind-numbingly thick.

Claude has made a difference in the three games over Christmas and is worth a start ahead of Halliday/Taundry.

If effort won points we'd be in the play-offs, but it doesn't so Smith needs to find some quality in this window. We're only one or two players short, I hope he finds them.

Nice to catch up with JollyJohnny and Blazing and meet Mr Belgian.

[WFC_Rob]

Just to add, we've been beaten 6-2 on aggregate this season by Bury - a newly promoted side with a lower average attendence than ours. Proof to those of you who keep saying Smith's hands are tied that you can make something of yourselves at this level by playing the game how it should be played with players who can control and pass a football. And it is possible to pick up players on loan from Premier League clubs (of which we have 3 within a 20-minute drive) who can make an impact.

Spot on again. Driving home, I hearn Brendan Rogers say about his swansea side and they way they play football on five live, "there are stacks of english players who can pass and play good football, if you ask them to play that way." Made me think, we have got some better footballers than we are seeing at times on the pitch. Yes, we could do with better quality midfielders ideally, but at the start of the season / preseason, we were passing the ball better than we are now. I wonder what goes on, on the training pitch.

Like you, it was comments from Brendan Rogers towards the back end of last week which struck a chord with me. Even as a Championship side, they weren't amongst the big spenders yet relied upon playing the ball on the deck and using the attacking players they do have as and when they can. To do that though, you need eleven footballers who are comfortable on the ball, and that's where we struggle as we don't have enough technical ability in the side.

It really frustrates me when people moan about our budget. I know it's not going to let us have the pick of the league's best players, but the likes of Bury seem to be performing more than adequately with a limited budget to build from. The likes of Peter Sweeney and Steven Schumacher's salaries aren't out of our price range, no way.

[Jolly Johnny]

Nice to catch up with JollyJohnny and Blazing and meet Mr Belgian.

Yeah, good to catch up with you too mate! Maybe another NUTS evening should be arranged!!

[SheffieldSaddler]

SMITH OUT!

[Darth Vader]

SMITH OUT!

Was waiting for that.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

If the Sheff Wed game was in my top ten of all time, this was in the top ten worst. Words can't describle what a poor performance that was.

I was fortunate enough to bump in to good freinds and have a booze (Nice to see you Belg, and PT) Otherwise it would have been a complete waste of a day. Rubbish.

[deanonev69]

If the Sheff Wed game was in my top ten of all time, this was in the top ten worst. Words can't describle what a poor performance that was.

I was fortunate enough to bump in to good freinds and have a booze (Nice to see you Belg, and PT) Otherwise it would have been a complete waste of a day. Rubbish.

Words may not be able to describe how dire it was but the look on your face when i passed you ten minutes from the end, would have!

Oh to have someone like that Amoo on loan. How can a club like Bury, who are similar size to us, attract loan players like that where as we are left with the dregs like Martin and Halliday?

I don't know what the plan was today but we were poor pretty much throughout. In the space of a week, we have gone from the highs of the Wednesday game, to the abjectness of today.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I know this result will bring all the Peter Panics out of the woodwork but we deserved a point today. Much better performance in the second half but the team selection was undeniably strange. The rehabilitation of Jarvis looked pre-planned given Smith's foray into the press last week to big him up. I understand that Macken probably can't play two games in three days these days but as mentioned above why put him on the bench and choose Jarvis over Grigg or Bowerman. Halliday was poor. If Hurst is fit why not start him?

We definitely need reinforcements in January but they need to be Wilson level, not Halliday level. Bury were poor but Schumacher and Sweeney (to name just two) would walk into our side. With a bit of luck (ie the spawny deflection that led to Bury's opener) we'd have got something today but we're still crying out for a cutting edge up front. It's not results like this that will send us down, but our home results against teams like Rochdale, Yeovil, Exeter and Scunthorpe just might.

You clearly didn't watch the same game as me, although I had had several beers, no way on earth did we deserve anything out of that game today. Quite simple dire. We huffed and puffed for ten minutes at the start of the second half, and that was it for the whole game. No idea how to break a team down. I like your posts, they usually contain far more sense than I could ever wish to post, but I can't agree with that. Dire.

[gray]

We were awful in the first half and a bit better in the 2nd half when we were chasing the game, despite not making many chances. I was so confused with the lineup, when you have Jarvis and Nicholls up front its really hard to tell where the goals are going to come from. I would have started Gnakpa, Bowerman or Grigg before Jarvis.

Gnakpa was pretty good when he came on and shows why he should have probably started, Paterson also looked good when he had the ball.

I really don't understand our long ball tactics when the only players in the team who could win headers were Butler and Beevers until Gnakpa came on. Bury looked good but we made them look a lot better than they are, they were passing the ball around for fun in the first half and our midfield looked none existent.

I'm not in the Smith Out camp yet but it's bemusing to see us play well against all the top teams and then get walked all over by Bury. We only start playing football and looking motivated when we are losing and surely some of that has to come down to the management getting the players motivated (although I don't know why they aren't anyway)

We need to get some decent loan players in or get some cheap signings if there are any out there. Bury had Amoo on loan from Liverpool and he looked excellent, I hope we can get somebody on loan who will actually improve the team.

[King Crimson]

Amoo was excellent at our place.

Fair play to those who went, and thanks for the detailed match reports - even if they don't make pleasant reading!

[Ancient Moaner]

Did I watch the same game as everyone else today? Sure, we were dire in the first half, and Bury looked like world beaters at times, but surely they are a one man team....Amoooo. (how come Bury can pick up a loanee as good as that, when we get Halliday?) but in the 2nd half it was almost non stop attack by us, if we had any strikers we would have won 5-2!
Who is the fella pretending to be Nicholls out there? Cus it sure ain't the Nicholls I know! When we attacked down both wings, we suddenly had ideas, no end result of course cus we don't have an Amoooo. But how people could not have appreciated the effort we put in that second half astounds me. We are relegation certainties without doubt, but the effort those 2nd class lads gave out there was worth more than a mass walk out by the majority, I along with numerous others were sickened by our lack of appreciation !
This has been a fatboyslim kidnap of AM's computer of course.

[Lone Striker]

Another disappointing away performance and the same shortcomings that are becoming all too familiar. We played a Bury side that moved the ball more quickly and accurately than we did, controlled central midfield and had a threat out wide that we struggled to contain throughout the 90 minutes. Our tactics are really difficult to understand, as mentioned by WFC Rob earlier why play Taundry in a home game when his strengths are more suited to an away game when his battling qualities are more useful to us. The Gnapka situation is equally as strange, he comes on as a substitute in games,makes a difference and scores yet does not start with the manager preferring Halliday who has contributed nothing in his loan spell with us.

Smith needs to decide what style we are attempting to play. If he wants to play a passing game then get some quality in the midfield and play the players who are most comfortable with the ball at their feet and look to recieve the ball and pass it to a team mate. If we have not got enough of this type of player in the squad and my belief is that we haven't then do what other teams do and get the ball forward and play percentage football using Gnapka as an outlet with a couple of players around him to pick up pieces. We may not like this style of football but from what I witnessed today that is what we reverted to in the last 20 minutes today, the problem being by then we had Nicholls and Paterson as our strikers and Gnapka winning his headers from wide areas.

Worrying for me that we have a manager who appears happy with the current situation, makes strange tactical decisions that never make a difference, and with the loan market now open has a really poor record of loaning players who can go into the team and make a difference in a way that other teams loan players do. Hope he proves me wrong and something happens before Saturday as if we go in with these same players and style of play what makes him think the result will be any different to the results in the previous 24 games.

[Jolly Johnny]

Did I watch the same game as everyone else today? Sure, we were dire in the first half, and Bury looked like world beaters at times, but surely they are a one man team....Amoooo. (how come Bury can pick up a loanee as good as that, when we get Halliday?) but in the 2nd half it was almost non stop attack by us, if we had any strikers we would have won 5-2!
Who is the fella pretending to be Nicholls out there? Cus it sure ain't the Nicholls I know! When we attacked down both wings, we suddenly had ideas, no end result of course cus we don't have an Amoooo. But how people could not have appreciated the effort we put in that second half astounds me. We are relegation certainties without doubt, but the effort those 2nd class lads gave out there was worth more than a mass walk out by the majority, I along with numerous others were sickened by our lack of appreciation !
This has been a fatboyslim kidnap of AM's computer of course.

I'm not sure they are just a one man team in Amoo, Steve. As mentioned in my posts above, Sweeney and Schumacher were excellent for them in centre mid and Hughes looked commanding at the back (although he didn't have much trouble with what we stuck in front of him!). They have players who react and can play well with the Amoos of this world, we just don't see it in such a bright light. They passed the ball around us very effectively today.
As for Nicholls, although I agree he was better second half as he was playing more centrally, most of his running was sideways, towards the touchline and not sure what to do with the ball (didn't have much help mind you!) When he did make good forward runs, the likes of Sadler ignored him to try and play hollywood cross field Gerrard balls to Halliday, which didn't come off. All the running and huffing didn't lead to much - we didn't actually shoot ot create clear cut chances did we. We got a few corners near the end and Gnakpa had a header he should have done better with but that was it really.

[gray]

we suddenly had ideas, no end result of course cus we don't have an Amoooo. But how people could not have appreciated the effort we put in that second half astounds me.

I appreciated the effort but like I said before at the moment the effort is only coming once we are losing. It's like the team can't handle not being massive underdogs.

[bangsection]

Stuff that Blazing day agree with

You clearly didn't watch the same game as me, although I had had several beers, no way on earth did we deserve anything out of that game today. Quite simple dire. We huffed and puffed for ten minutes at the start of the second half, and that was it for the whole game. No idea how to break a team down. I like your posts, they usually contain far more sense than I could ever wish to post, but I can't agree with that. Dire.

FaIr enough. Lots of posters whose opinions I respect (including you) disagree with me (although it's always nice to read Ancient Moaner's ultra-positive match reports when he's been to a game!) and I've got no problem with that. However, I still think we played better today than we did at Chesterfield who were there for the taking - our second half performance there was disgraceful. I was worried that we'd capitulate in the second half today but was pleasantly surprised that we came out and had a go. Secondly, I thought we created more chances today than we did at Huddersfield, Stevenage, Hartlepool, Tranmere or Chesterfield. That's not saying much but it's a start. Thirdly, I think my posts can be slightly biased towards the positive because I get genuinely depressed by the knee jerk pessimism that chokes this board after a defeat - often from people that haven't gone (obviously this is not a comment aimed at you).

Are we a poor team? Yes. Are we going down? I think it's 50/50 at the moment and will entirely depend on the new faces we bring in when the window opens. Other points from today's game:

How come Gigg Lane is home to two football teams yet looks ten times better than our pitch?

Bury's square programme is ace. I love square programmes!

Why didn't Belge acknowledge me when I waved and shouted at half time? I know he was embarrassed that I had to finish his half time pint for him at Chesterfield but blanking me was a bit harsh!