STANDING CONTINGENT APPEAL

[DonningtonSaddler]

I agree with this post. Why do people think they have the right to stand in front of other paying spectators. Do they stand up at the cinema too? Until they re-introduce standing areas be fair to others and sit down.

I went to the Shrewsbury match with my eight year old and got stuck behind two rows of lads who insisted on standing up. He couldn't see a blinking thing for most to of the match. I don't think I would have had much joy in getting the two rows in front of me to sit down if I'd asked them. We couldn't move as there were no other seats available.

ds,how do you compare a football match to the cinema ? thank god we do have some standers/singers or else it would be like the cinema :roll: theres always the oap stand

Well, I think it would be a jolly good idea to serve popcorn and have a lady with a tray of choc-ices standing behind the goal at half time. :roll: Good grief, does my comparison really need explaining???

[kpritchard05]

Thank you mister marmite . I have been quietly listening to people comments / opinions and I think yours is the most intelligent so far.

Yes I agree with the whole atmosphere its better to stand, yes terrace standing is better but Walsall Fc have made a decision that Lower is seating and supporters should sit.

My example today is people also like to smoke, at fellows park you could smoke, for some time at Bescot you could smoke, but Walsall Fc have decided not to allow smoking (also due to the smoking ban) so should we also allow supporters to smoke? Should the stewards ignore this because it might upset smokers. Where do we draw a line in what Walsall Fc rules are broken and what rules the stewards ignore/ turn a blind eye to.

quite agree mr goose and also a very good post mister marmite.

[swifty McBay]

It's simple really rip all the seats out of the lower tier have that as standing if u want to sit down go either upstairs ,the family stand or oap stand . How was your view when it was all standing with no upper tier ? I was 10 when I started going to games in the old Gilbert alsop and I loved it those were the days !!!

[derbysaddler]

What the feck is this nonsense? Do you want bean bags and cushions as well? Deary me

[JonnyOwen]

This is just utter bollocks :lol:

"You know what, lets all just be lazy arses and not move to where we can see, but instead remove the only source of an atmosphere and noise at all from the Bescot."

Also, it being more expensive argument is a load of shite again, the side I SIT on in the lower tier has plenty of seats, practically rows to yourself :roll: Better just start installing padded seats, radiators and free fudge teddy bears too.

[Chris]

My nipper's first season ticket was FTG lower, back row, middle block. Couldn't see a bleeding thing. Phoned the club and said, "I've been a tool and picked the wrong seats. Any chance I can move upstairs?". They said "yeah", I paid a few quid more and we moved. Problem solved. He's a bit taller now, so it's not so much of a problem. We mix up where we sit now. We're renegades like that!

Shrewsbury away (and yes, PT, it was me you quoted....well remembered!), he stood on his seat and I kept my foot on it to stop it flipping and sending him flying. Not an issue. He loved it! (despite the result).

We went down the Villa with his Grandad when he was 3 and I held him for 90 minutes in my arms, so he could see. Not sure whether the strain on my arms or watching the Villa was more painful, but we did it anyway. Again, not an issue. I agreed to go to the game, so just went with the flow and did what needed to be done.

Come on mate. This is beyond anal! Sit somewhere else and move on with your life.

[DonningtonSaddler]

I agree with this post. Why do people think they have the right to stand in front of other paying spectators. Do they stand up at the cinema too? Until they re-introduce standing areas be fair to others and sit down.

I went to the Shrewsbury match with my eight year old and got stuck behind two rows of lads who insisted on standing up. He couldn't see a blinking thing for most to of the match. I don't think I would have had much joy in getting the two rows in front of me to sit down if I'd asked them. We couldn't move as there were no other seats available.

The game has absolutely gone, if we're suggesting that football fans should behave in the same way that cinema-goers do. The problem with bescot is that too many DO behave like they would at the pictures.

On Shrewsbury away, again if you have a feel for football culture it was obvious what sort of following we'd take. There was a long debate on here with me and King Crimson being painted as Trappist Monks because we didn't fancy taking our sons to this fixture. Another poster, Chris I think it was, disagreed and sees games and atmospheres like that as part of life's rich tapestry and education for his son. Absolutely fair enough. But we all knew what it was going to be like - big police presence and a rowdy and drink-fuelled following. I'm gob-smacked by your outrage and apparent surprise at what you experienced. Is this your first season following us?

Anyway, I agree with you that the best way to sort this is to re-introduce standing.

Standing in the Hillary street end in the 70's and 80's I encountered several grumbles, threats and the occasional flob. This was because I am 6' 6". Apparently, my presence obscured their view of the game. I couldn't really understand their behaviour towards me. Maybe I didn't have a feel for football culture.

[DonningtonSaddler]

My nipper's first season ticket was FTG lower, back row, middle block. Couldn't see a bleeding thing. Phoned the club and said, "I've been a tool and picked the wrong seats. Any chance I can move upstairs?". They said "yeah", I paid a few quid more and we moved. Problem solved. He's a bit taller now, so it's not so much of a problem. We mix up where we sit now. We're renegades like that!

Shrewsbury away (and yes, PT, it was me you quoted....well remembered!), he stood on his seat and I kept my foot on it to stop it flipping and sending him flying. Not an issue. He loved it! (despite the result).

We went down the Villa with his Grandad when he was 3 and I held him for 90 minutes in my arms, so he could see. Not sure whether the strain on my arms or watching the Villa was more painful, but we did it anyway. Again, not an issue. I agreed to go to the game, so just went with the flow and did what needed to be done.

Come on mate. This is beyond anal! Sit somewhere else and move on with your life.

Did you ask the person behind if they minded your boy standing on the seat? :wink:

[brummie saddler]

If you've been sat there for 13 years it must be positively glorious for you now, because sitting there when it was still a terrace must have been much worse surely?

had my seat there aslong as the seats have been in and have been in that stand for 13 years

Nope, let's do the maths.

Cardiff 2001. Weren't in then.

Season after (01 - 02) the Graydon/Lee season. Distinctly remember standing on the last game at home to Bradford. The GAS was packed that day so the view from your seat at the back must have been awful.

stevie corica got a brace but we lost a 2 goal lead to draw if memory is correct ?

02 - 03 - now, this was the season I think it went up. We were at the away end early doors. But then could stand again downstairs for the rest of the season as the building was done but the seats weren't in. Remember a night game standing there versus Palace when Andy Johnson score late-on. when the seats went in upstairs we had standing downstairs and seating upstairs for a bit. I remember that well because our gang got split up for the rest of that season as some wanted to milk the terrace for as long as it was possible whilst others wanted to take up their new luxurious view from upstairs.

i was ball boy first game of the season at home to ipswich at the away end, was weird seeing saddlers in the away end.

03-04 - downstairs was seated.

So it's 9 full seasons. I know that you were trying to make a case that the seat had some kind of provenance that made it morally your right to hold, but 9 years is nowt and you and your mates could all move about twenty feet to the right or left and stay seated to your hearts content. Honest, it'll be OK.

[DonningtonSaddler]

[FP based rant that went too far - mod].

I often enjoy your posts Darth, but just for the record, how many times did you stand at the street end?

[Banksy1987]

in my experience standing is the natural thing to do as the team attack the home goal, as one previous poster stated, he missed brandys effort because someone stood at the crucial time, does that make them inconsiderate or just passionate fans?? If you have a problem why not move to blocks 1 or 6, but be warned, even in those blocks you have to stand as the team attacks, i have to pick my son up at time but i get over it, its football what do you expect!!

[Chris]

My nipper's first season ticket was FTG lower, back row, middle block. Couldn't see a bleeding thing. Phoned the club and said, "I've been a tool and picked the wrong seats. Any chance I can move upstairs?". They said "yeah", I paid a few quid more and we moved. Problem solved. He's a bit taller now, so it's not so much of a problem. We mix up where we sit now. We're renegades like that!

Shrewsbury away (and yes, PT, it was me you quoted....well remembered!), he stood on his seat and I kept my foot on it to stop it flipping and sending him flying. Not an issue. He loved it! (despite the result).

We went down the Villa with his Grandad when he was 3 and I held him for 90 minutes in my arms, so he could see. Not sure whether the strain on my arms or watching the Villa was more painful, but we did it anyway. Again, not an issue. I agreed to go to the game, so just went with the flow and did what needed to be done.

Come on mate. This is beyond anal! Sit somewhere else and move on with your life.

Did you ask the person behind if they minded your boy standing on the seat? :wink:

:-) No, he was too busy participating in a game of inflatable sheep volleyball, so I just left him to it.
All good fun!

[DonningtonSaddler]

My nipper's first season ticket was FTG lower, back row, middle block. Couldn't see a bleeding thing. Phoned the club and said, "I've been a tool and picked the wrong seats. Any chance I can move upstairs?". They said "yeah", I paid a few quid more and we moved. Problem solved. He's a bit taller now, so it's not so much of a problem. We mix up where we sit now. We're renegades like that!

Shrewsbury away (and yes, PT, it was me you quoted....well remembered!), he stood on his seat and I kept my foot on it to stop it flipping and sending him flying. Not an issue. He loved it! (despite the result).

We went down the Villa with his Grandad when he was 3 and I held him for 90 minutes in my arms, so he could see. Not sure whether the strain on my arms or watching the Villa was more painful, but we did it anyway. Again, not an issue. I agreed to go to the game, so just went with the flow and did what needed to be done.

Come on mate. This is beyond anal! Sit somewhere else and move on with your life.

Did you ask the person behind if they minded your boy standing on the seat? :wink:

:-) No, he was too busy participating in a game of inflatable sheep volleyball, so I just left him to it.
All good fun!

:lol:

[brummie saddler]

in all seriousness if a sit down policy was enforced by the club my attendance would drop considerably, i only really go for the atmosphere, the thought of sitting down and signing just makes my stomach turn.

hope you go to the stewards during the next game and make it known its you who has the problem.

i really do think this thread is a sick joke and there's no seriousness in it at all.

[Chris]

This week I got told off by the gentleman behind me for standing up for circa 0.5 seconds when Patterson was through 1-on-1.
Madness!

[cumbria-saddler]

If you've been sat there for 13 years it must be positively glorious for you now, because sitting there when it was still a terrace must have been much worse surely?

had my seat there aslong as the seats have been in and have been in that stand for 13 years

Nope, let's do the maths.

Cardiff 2001. Weren't in then.

Season after (01 - 02) the Graydon/Lee season. Distinctly remember standing on the last game at home to Bradford. The GAS was packed that day so the view from your seat at the back must have been awful.

stevie corica got a brace but we lost a 2 goal lead to draw if memory is correct ?

Thats right. Think that was only my second Walsall game, Man City at home that season was my first. Managed to get into the players bar after the Bradford game too..

As for the standing issue, are you genuinley saying you want the majority of the two middle blocks to be ejected/banned/ect if they continue to stand?

[JaySaddler]

I'm just imagining everybody standing being chucked out, and me looking over from my seat in the family stand to see this one guy left, sitting behind the goal. What an atmosphere! :D

[windowman]

The following acts are arrestable offences under the Football (Offences) Act 1991, as amended:

Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress.Persistent standing in seated areas whilst play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the Ground.

& also:

The Club reserves absolutely the right to eject from the Ground any person failing to comply with any of the Ground Regulations or whose presence within the Ground is, or could, reasonably be construed as constituting a source of danger, nuisance or annoyance to any other person.This could lead to further action by the Club including, but not limited to, the withdrawal of any season ticket (without reimbursement) and other benefits.


Entry to the Ground shall constitute acceptance of the Ground Regulations.

Hope the police are around at the next game as they can start to either eject/arrest some of these people who persist to stand & about time the club starts taking action against these people who fail to comply with the ground regulations as by coming in your all comply to these rules!!

you sound like les kellet, i know the rules, mind ,he was a knob aswell

[windowman]

The following acts are arrestable offences under the Football (Offences) Act 1991, as amended:

Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress.Persistent standing in seated areas whilst play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the Ground.

& also:

The Club reserves absolutely the right to eject from the Ground any person failing to comply with any of the Ground Regulations or whose presence within the Ground is, or could, reasonably be construed as constituting a source of danger, nuisance or annoyance to any other person.This could lead to further action by the Club including, but not limited to, the withdrawal of any season ticket (without reimbursement) and other benefits.


Entry to the Ground shall constitute acceptance of the Ground Regulations.

Hope the police are around at the next game as they can start to either eject/arrest some of these people who persist to stand & about time the club starts taking action against these people who fail to comply with the ground regulations as by coming in your all comply to these rules!!

An that post sums up the state of modern football and our current fans.

Whilst I (and others) go to games, shout, sing, enjoy the football and realise football stadiums are not theatres, you are quoting ground regulations.

Oh dear. :roll:

would not suprise me if he was some council numpty ,never had a real job in the real world

[windowman]

I read the chaps first message, have no need to read anything said in between.

He is 100% right, Bescot is an all seater stadium, Standing up disappeared when the terracing disappeared.

Yes people will be on their feet for parts of the game. Anyone persistently doing it needs to be warned, then removed from the ground quite simple really.

Rules is Rules.

I would not object to taking up all the seats in the Lower Seats and putting terracing back in. If people are that keen on it - start a fund to pay for it - then agree with the Club that you'd pay a premium on top of the ticket price to stand there next season. Simple.

rules made to be broken, i squeese the tooth paste from the middle,what you think about that.pifff

[windowman]

I agree with this post. Why do people think they have the right to stand in front of other paying spectators. Do they stand up at the cinema too? Until they re-introduce standing areas be fair to others and sit down.

I went to the Shrewsbury match with my eight year old and got stuck behind two rows of lads who insisted on standing up. He couldn't see a blinking thing for most to of the match. I don't think I would have had much joy in getting the two rows in front of me to sit down if I'd asked them. We couldn't move as there were no other seats available.

ds,how do you compare a football match to the cinema ? thank god we do have some standers/singers or else it would be like the cinema :roll: theres always the oap stand

Well, I think it would be a jolly good idea to serve popcorn and have a lady with a tray of choc-ices standing behind the goal at half time. :roll: Good grief, does my comparison really need explaining???

yes. i dont see it

[Exile]

2013-2014: Make the pot noodle blue pop stand block 4 unallocated. You can buy a seaon ticket, and when they're sold the club know how many seats are left for each match. Seats sold with a welcome pack noting that holders are now in with members of the recognised singing section who may occasionally get excited.

Gets the singers together, improves the atmosphere, makes everyone aware so they have a choice, and while our attendances are as low as they have been for years, inconveniences very few people. Apologies to those inconvenienced, but sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[Dave Gittins]

Trouble is, this argument has two very valid sides to it.

I am now in my 38th year of going to see the Saddlers and still feel the terraces give a better atmosphere, but the terraces have long gone.

One game recently I phoned for my tickets and was allocated by the club the middle of FL4. Taking my seat with my daughter the view was awful due to people all around standing. Not great but I stood to see the game. The singers, though, showed no consideration at all for others as more and more then crammed into the rows with about 3 or 4 by every seat making it dangerous. Ultimately we did as has been suggested by others and moved to different seats where our enjoyment of the match was much improved.

The argument quoted by many is for people not to buy seats in that block but in my case that was where the club put us. Also, from my experience, why don't the standers/singers purchase tickets in that area themselves instead of other areas of the lower stand then forcing their way into FL4?

As with most arguments there is no answer to please everyone but a bit of thought on both sides would go a very long way.

[King Crimson]

Thank you mister marmite . I have been quietly listening to people comments / opinions and I think yours is the most intelligent so far.

Yes I agree with the whole atmosphere its better to stand, yes terrace standing is better but Walsall Fc have made a decision that Lower is seating and supporters should sit.

My example today is people also like to smoke, at fellows park you could smoke, for some time at Bescot you could smoke, but Walsall Fc have decided not to allow smoking (also due to the smoking ban) so should we also allow supporters to smoke? Should the stewards ignore this because it might upset smokers. Where do we draw a line in what Walsall Fc rules are broken and what rules the stewards ignore/ turn a blind eye to.

quite agree mr goose and also a very good post mister marmite.

I'm afraid what makes all this a bit comical from where I'm sat, is that the pontificating and grumbling on here is so futile.

Standing is banned at The Banks's - correct.
Stewards ignore the large but localised group of standing fans behind the goal in the TileChoice Stand Lower - true.
So, do these wishing to sit do what is within their power (move to a section of the numerous empty seats) or moan?
If you're really interested in a decent view of the game, spend just a few more quid and go upstairs.
If you're really vexed by this, write to the club.

I wonder what folks would do if the same large, localised group all lit up and plumes of cigarette smoke emanated from them? If the stewards did nothing, would they sit there and choke, or move?

To sit there week-in, week-out, and moan about it is just daft. And as for the point that there's a group of you, there are enough spare seats for the Royal Scots Guards to all sit together. It reminds me of the gentleman who asked a fellow supporter to move seat because he was sat in the seat number on his ticket. Not a season ticket, just a match ticket. The rest of the row was empty, as were dozens of others. Comical, but a bit sad too.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Join the safe standing movement - it's the only answer. In the meantime, it's bloody annoying. Today I missed Brandy hitting the post because two people stood up at the crucial ,moment. Sure I could move, but IT WAS TOO BLOODY LATE BY THEN!

To be fair Neil this is a slightly different problem, which definitely isn't just Walsall, but a damn good argument for the safe standing movement. Ever since seating was put in stands behind goals it has been the same all around football, as soon as the ball gets anywhere near the goal , the supporters who are supporting the attacking team stand up. Of course not everyone wants to stand, and so either is forced to, or misses the vital action. Anyway it's still a problem, but not the same problem as people constantly standing up for the whole game (which I do on the back row, right out of the way of anyone I might block)

As for the standing the whole game, it just proves even more, people don't want to sit at football matches, or at least some don't. To those who say football has changed, well yes it has, but is it for the better ? Not in my opinion. Sure i like to watch the match, but I never started watching a lower league football club to sit in silence 10 meters from the nearest person, watching the match without any atmosphere at all.

There are 4 stands you can sit in at Walsall as a home fan, I am pretty sure only one of them has people standing the whole game, and even in there it is only one block, and the back rows in the other areas. For those who are annoyed by it, I do understand, I have kids I want to take soon, but I mean I grew up being in the Cow Shed and Street End, I missed loads as a kid, but I still loved it. Use a bit of common sense where you sit. For those who love to stand, get right behind safe standing, it's what the fans want, it's our game after all, without the fans, football is nothing.

[mrgoose]

96 Reasons:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ounds.html

[Exile]

96 Reasons:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ounds.html

96 emotive excuses for ignoring the argument.

[King Crimson]

96 Reasons:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ounds.html

96 emotive excuses for ignoring the argument.

I agree.

There are plenty of Hillsborough-affected folks who can see Bundesliga-style high quality standing as well removed from the pens and cages of the 80s, and at least as safe as seating.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

I read the chaps first message, have no need to read anything said in between.

He is 100% right, Bescot is an all seater stadium, Standing up disappeared when the terracing disappeared.

Yes people will be on their feet for parts of the game. Anyone persistently doing it needs to be warned, then removed from the ground quite simple really.

Rules is Rules.

I would not object to taking up all the seats in the Lower Seats and putting terracing back in. If people are that keen on it - start a fund to pay for it - then agree with the Club that you'd pay a premium on top of the ticket price to stand there next season. Simple.

That's why I said to join the Safe Standing Campaign. Bring back terracing and I'd stand, as its better, but in seats, you sit.

[PT]

96 Reasons:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ounds.html

96 emotive excuses for ignoring the argument.

I agree.

There are plenty of Hillsborough-affected folks who can see Bundesliga-style high quality standing as well removed from the pens and cages of the 80s, and at least as safe as seating.

Agree too.

I of course respect the views of Mrs Aspinall. Her loss, the subsequent cover-up and the years fighting for justice must have been layer upon layer on tragedy and frustration. Which is why bringing her experience into an argument about a few people at the Banks's who can't quite see Will Grigg's latest effort seems a little low to me.

My view is that there were 56 reasons to ban seating at Bradford. It wasn't because sitting down at football is dangerous per se, it was just that that stand was unsafe. Same with Hillsborough. That terrace, that ground and I think we'll soon be able to say some criminally negligent policing were what caused that disaster and not standing at football per se. I can't see anybody on here calling for fencing, pens and unregulated capacities in large swathes of terrace.

Safe standing would solve the argument at the root of this thread. And to be fair it's a good thread because it has opened my eyes a bit because to me it looked nonsense when first posted but there are enough intelligent supporters of the original posters sentiments for me to realise that it is an issue that needs addressing. It shouldn't be addressed by over-zealous stewarding and mass ejections, rather some clear guidelines on what is and isn't acceptable. This should vary, as Exile suggests, in different parts of the ground and be explicit when tickets are sold.