Brighton and Hove Albion (H) League 1 Saturday 15/4/11.

[Registered Saddler]

As for survival, if we win two more games either Bristol Rovers or Notts County must take 7 points from 4/5 games respectively. That means Rovers can only afford one more defeat, and County two.

Plus Dag&Red would have to accrue at least five points from Plymouth & Carlisle (h) and Huddersfield & Peterborough (a). Tough ask as Plymouth/Carlisle are playing ok at the moment.

[Deano_Saddler]

I decided to go at the last minute yesterday and to be honest even though we lost i'm glad i did. I enjoyed the game and thought we made a good go of it up until Ledesma got his red card.

Walker - Two absolutely brilliant saves in the 1st half, thought he was going to batter the referee at 1 point after their player had dived twice and deliberately handled the ball.

Taundry - Absolutely useless in the 1st half and why did he get in the way of Walker ill never know. 2nd half i thought he was a lot better, picked out some lovely passes and yes this is Taundry. Would still get rid at the end of the season if i could though.

Butler - Superb yet again, through everything he had at the ball time and time again, my player of the season even though he hasnt been in for that long but for me he deserves it just on his performances since he has been here, ive never seen him have a bad game.

MacDonald - Proved for the 2nd time in 5 days that he more than capable for us, throught he was also superb.

Williams - I think this was the best ive seen of him. For the 1st time he actually decided to run forward and put decent crosses in, defended very well aswell.

Cook - In and out of the game.

Richards - Read Cook

Gbarssin - I love him, for me he is a breath of fresh air from what we had to see under Hutchings. We were crying out for a big bloke that could boss the middle of the park and he does that.

Laird - If you lot can criticise Taundry and Richards for ' running around and not doing much ' then what does Laird do? I thought he was utter anonymous yesterday and when he did have a great chance to level us up he wastes it.

Gray - In and out of the game, caused a few problems and never gave up.

Macken - Didn't fall for him yesterday, worked hard but was just 1 of those games, looked shattered after 60-65 mins

Ledesma - I'm sorry but if that's a red card in the refs book then its dreadful, BOTH players went in for a 50/50 challenge, BOTH players went in two footed and 1 player got hurt, it's a simple as that. Just because Ledesma didn't get hurt he didn't red card their player? It's a joke in my opinion.

[latviancheese]

Often the way with a 50-50. Its the one who can roll around the most concincingly afterwards.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I think in todays game, by the letter of the law, it probably was a red card. However the rule is wrong in my opnion. They are trying to take tackling out of the game altogether. Still, was foolish to go in two footed.

The game, we were okay, they are the best team in the league, far far to good for us. Need to make the next 3 games count now,

[latviancheese]

I think in todays game, by the letter of the law, it probably was a red card. However the rule is wrong in my opnion. They are trying to take tackling out of the game altogether. Still, was foolish to go in two footed.

The game, we were okay, they are the best team in the league, far far to good for us. Need to make the next 3 games count now,

The players are trying to take tackling out the game, lets be honest.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I think in todays game, by the letter of the law, it probably was a red card. However the rule is wrong in my opnion. They are trying to take tackling out of the game altogether. Still, was foolish to go in two footed.

The game, we were okay, they are the best team in the league, far far to good for us. Need to make the next 3 games count now,

The players are trying to take tackling out the game, lets be honest.

I don't agree with dangerous tackles being allowed, I mean it can ruin someones career, and no one wants that (apart from Roy Keane maybe) but I feel the law has gone to far nowadays. Taking the ball cleanly nowadays in a nice solid hard tackle just isn't allowed.

The refs should be allowed to use some common sense about what is a dangerous tackle, with no intent to win the ball, and what isn't. Sadly most of them seem incapable of this, which is why the laws are so rigid.

Having said all that, no excuse for Ledesma, I'm not sure it was worth a red, but he knows the rules, he made a clear two footed tackle, and got dismissed. Will now miss most of the rest of the season through suspension, when he could have been a key part (even if from the bench) of helping us get out of this mess.

[geoffwhiting]

At the time, from my angle of view, with Ledesma running in a line more-or-less directly straight towards my position, the ref's decision looked harsh, the tackle looked 50:50, I saw no sign of a two-footed lunge, and I was absolutely amazed by the red card. Sadly, the video I've seen this evening is clear and conclusive. The return ball to Ledesma, from his decent push and run, was played without enough weight and therefore gave the Brighton player the chance to lunge and try to intercept. Ledesma definitely launched himself two-footed. I'd say it was towards the ball and without malice, but you just can't do that today. If only he'd kept his head and continued his run at the ball he might even have won a free kick from the Brighton player's challenge - who knows? But all Ledesma did was get himself rightly sent-off, and now he's put our chances of a successful run-in in severe jeopardy. With him now out for three of the four remaning games, compounded by McDonald's injury that is going to keep him out for all four games, our small squad is even more stretched at a time when we need all hands to the pump.

OK, we were second-best for much of the game against a very mobile Brighton team that taught us lots of lessons about teamwork and movement off the ball, but we were only 2-1 down and, at the time, looking capable of an equaliser and maybe an unlikely but vital point. Ledesma let us down, and so did the Ref on a number of occasions, particularly his unbelievable failure to deal with the obvious "simulation" that was going on on the pitch more-or-less from the first moments of the game. Maybe it's the frustration of watching a Ref failing in his duty that leads players to do stupid things like Ledesma did, but he's a professional and should know better. If that's a regular feature of his game (and perhaps it's a typically South-American trait) then he could become as much a liability as an asset, perhaps like a certain young winger who was kicked out a couple of years back. Deano has a big decision to make about Ledesma at the end of the season, and I would not be at all surprised if he decides to let him go after witnessing this serious error of judgement.

All in all, I enjoyed yesterday's contest. I went along hoping we might scrape a point, but expecting us to lose and, if I'm honest, fearing a bit of a hammering, but was pleasantly surprised that we made a game of it for so long, despite our obvious shortcomings on quality, skill, ball control and movement. Their third goal, against ten men, had an air of inevitability about it, but I honestly think 3-1 flattered them in the end, but their win was deserved and wheher 2-1 or 3-1, it still leaves us with "Nil points".

Thank heaven for all those other scores elsewhere, they could hardly have been better for us on the day (other than to emphasise how valuable a single point would have been) so we move on in no-worse a position than we started the weekend, but next Saturday vs Sheff W is now MASSIVE, in fact MONUMENTAL.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Actually, Geoff, we are in a slightly better position, as there is one less game for others to overhaul us

[geoffwhiting]

Actually, Geoff, we are in a slightly better position, as there is one less game for others to overhaul us

Therefore no worse, as I said. :wink:

Seriously though Neil, you are right of course as regards the number of remaining games, and while we were losing our toughest game of our last five, some of our fellow strugglers used up home games that could have been regarded as amongst the easier of their remaining fixtures. So things do, as you say, look slightly better for us from that viewpoint.

In contrast to that we have, through lack of self-control, lost one potentially influential player for OUR next three "easier" games before we play the Saints away, and also lost one player through injury for all four games. How that will harm our chances remains to be seen, but I doubt if it will help our situation.

Whichever way it goes, I don't think (this time) that anyone can dispute that we've given it a good go since Hutchings went (far too late), and there is sufficient light at the end of the tunnel to believe that, if the worst happens and we do go down, there is real hope that we can come back quickly.

[Wyrley_saddler]

Since when has a two footed tackle become so dangerous? 5 years ago, people wouldn't have even blinked at that tackle. It would've have been a 'hard but fair' challenge. Ledesma clearly won the ball and contact with the player was minimum. El-Abd made the most of it and everyone knows it. If players are going to get sent off for challenges like that then we might aswell outlaw tackling. I know it's how it is nowadays, but it's getting ridiculous.

Having said that, I don't think Ledesma is such a big loss. He's had one 30-35 minute good spell for us. Other than that, he's been pretty poor. I'd much rather have Jordan Cook on the wing/upfront.

[geoffwhiting]

Since when has a two footed tackle become so dangerous? 5 years ago, people wouldn't have even blinked at that tackle. It would've have been a 'hard but fair' challenge. Ledesma clearly won the ball and contact with the player was minimum. El-Abd made the most of it and everyone knows it. If players are going to get sent off for challenges like that then we might aswell outlaw tackling. I know it's how it is nowadays, but it's getting ridiculous.

Having said that, I don't think Ledesma is such a big loss. He's had one 30-35 minute good spell for us. Other than that, he's been pretty poor. I'd much rather have Jordan Cook on the wing/upfront.

I think a two-footed tackle with both feet on the ground is probably hardly any more dangerous than one-footed, but when the tackling player launches himself with both feet off the ground, as Ledesma did in this case, then the outcome is in the lap of the gods and it's really a wholly different scenario. I'd say Ledesma DID make contact with the ball first, but his momentum can't be controlled when there's no contact with the ground, and that's what makes it dangerous. It looked a harsh decision to me at the time, looking at it in real-time from front-on, but not when I saw the video from the side view. I don't think that tackle would have been accepted even five years ago, it was just wrong.

As for Ledesma's value, I guess it's his potential to do what he did against Hartlepool, but I saw no sign of it in in his few minutes on Saturday. What I DID see was a player who looked a bit over-eager from the moment he came on, and a bit "on the edge" even before that tackle, so it was maybe only a matter of time before he did something stupid. Even so, he's restricted Deano's options at a time when we'll be needing every possible option to work for us to get those 7 points that should hopefully see us home and safe. So Ledesma sure ain't helped himself or the club.

[latviancheese]

It was a ridiculous, needless tackle. Studs showing and feet together. He didnt make much contact but you cant go making tackles like that. Red card everytime.

When i was 11/12 two footed tackles were applauded, i used to be quite good at them :lol:

[Magic Man Fan]

At the time, from my angle of view, with Ledesma running in a line more-or-less directly straight towards my position, the ref's decision looked harsh, the tackle looked 50:50, I saw no sign of a two-footed lunge, and I was absolutely amazed by the red card. Sadly, the video I've seen this evening is clear and conclusive. The return ball to Ledesma, from his decent push and run, was played without enough weight and therefore gave the Brighton player the chance to lunge and try to intercept. Ledesma definitely launched himself two-footed. I'd say it was towards the ball and without malice, but you just can't do that today. If only he'd kept his head and continued his run at the ball he might even have won a free kick from the Brighton player's challenge - who knows? But all Ledesma did was get himself rightly sent-off, and now he's put our chances of a successful run-in in severe jeopardy. With him now out for three of the four remaning games, compounded by McDonald's injury that is going to keep him out for all four games, our small squad is even more stretched at a time when we need all hands to the pump.

OK, we were second-best for much of the game against a very mobile Brighton team that taught us lots of lessons about teamwork and movement off the ball, but we were only 2-1 down and, at the time, looking capable of an equaliser and maybe an unlikely but vital point. Ledesma let us down, and so did the Ref on a number of occasions, particularly his unbelievable failure to deal with the obvious "simulation" that was going on on the pitch more-or-less from the first moments of the game. Maybe it's the frustration of watching a Ref failing in his duty that leads players to do stupid things like Ledesma did, but he's a professional and should know better. If that's a regular feature of his game (and perhaps it's a typically South-American trait) then he could become as much a liability as an asset, perhaps like a certain young winger who was kicked out a couple of years back. Deano has a big decision to make about Ledesma at the end of the season, and I would not be at all surprised if he decides to let him go after witnessing this serious error of judgement.

All in all, I enjoyed yesterday's contest. I went along hoping we might scrape a point, but expecting us to lose and, if I'm honest, fearing a bit of a hammering, but was pleasantly surprised that we made a game of it for so long, despite our obvious shortcomings on quality, skill, ball control and movement. Their third goal, against ten men, had an air of inevitability about it, but I honestly think 3-1 flattered them in the end, but their win was deserved and wheher 2-1 or 3-1, it still leaves us with "Nil points".

Thank heaven for all those other scores elsewhere, they could hardly have been better for us on the day (other than to emphasise how valuable a single point would have been) so we move on in no-worse a position than we started the weekend, but next Saturday vs Sheff W is now MASSIVE, in fact MONUMENTAL.

Geoff, after being in the top tier for the last two games, what do you think of the view compared to the main stand? I know you've always preferred the side view in the past.

[geoffwhiting]

Geoff, after being in the top tier for the last two games, what do you think of the view compared to the main stand? I know you've always preferred the side view in the past.

After two games up there, I'd say I'm getting used to it and quite like it now, MMF. It's certainly preferable because of the height, the kind of panoramic view, and the absence of pillars. The facilities under the stand are also very much improved compared to how they were the first time I tried the F2G several years ago. Back then it was hopeless trying to get a drink, some food, or even to get a place in the queue for a pee. That is now all SO much better than before, and if I do return regularly, I think it will be the F2G that I'll choose.

Of course, if we were to build a tall cantilever stand on the side, I think I'd probably choose that view, but it ain't gonna happen, so it's the F2G for me from now on. I shall almost certainly miss the Wednesday game due to other commitments, but Chris and I should be back in the F2G for the Charlton match, so hopefully catch up with you then, mate.

[tinned]

At the time, from my angle of view, with Ledesma running in a line more-or-less directly straight towards my position, the ref's decision looked harsh, the tackle looked 50:50, I saw no sign of a two-footed lunge, and I was absolutely amazed by the red card. Sadly, the video I've seen this evening is clear and conclusive. The return ball to Ledesma, from his decent push and run, was played without enough weight and therefore gave the Brighton player the chance to lunge and try to intercept. Ledesma definitely launched himself two-footed. I'd say it was towards the ball and without malice, but you just can't do that today. If only he'd kept his head and continued his run at the ball he might even have won a free kick from the Brighton player's challenge - who knows? But all Ledesma did was get himself rightly sent-off, and now he's put our chances of a successful run-in in severe jeopardy. With him now out for three of the four remaning games, compounded by McDonald's injury that is going to keep him out for all four games, our small squad is even more stretched at a time when we need all hands to the pump.

OK, we were second-best for much of the game against a very mobile Brighton team that taught us lots of lessons about teamwork and movement off the ball, but we were only 2-1 down and, at the time, looking capable of an equaliser and maybe an unlikely but vital point. Ledesma let us down, and so did the Ref on a number of occasions, particularly his unbelievable failure to deal with the obvious "simulation" that was going on on the pitch more-or-less from the first moments of the game. Maybe it's the frustration of watching a Ref failing in his duty that leads players to do stupid things like Ledesma did, but he's a professional and should know better. If that's a regular feature of his game (and perhaps it's a typically South-American trait) then he could become as much a liability as an asset, perhaps like a certain young winger who was kicked out a couple of years back. Deano has a big decision to make about Ledesma at the end of the season, and I would not be at all surprised if he decides to let him go after witnessing this serious error of judgement.

All in all, I enjoyed yesterday's contest. I went along hoping we might scrape a point, but expecting us to lose and, if I'm honest, fearing a bit of a hammering, but was pleasantly surprised that we made a game of it for so long, despite our obvious shortcomings on quality, skill, ball control and movement. Their third goal, against ten men, had an air of inevitability about it, but I honestly think 3-1 flattered them in the end, but their win was deserved and wheher 2-1 or 3-1, it still leaves us with "Nil points".

Thank heaven for all those other scores elsewhere, they could hardly have been better for us on the day (other than to emphasise how valuable a single point would have been) so we move on in no-worse a position than we started the weekend, but next Saturday vs Sheff W is now MASSIVE, in fact MONUMENTAL.

Geoff, after being in the top tier for the last two games, what do you think of the view compared to the main stand? I know you've always preferred the side view in the past.

Football from the side is unnatural and weird.

[latviancheese]

I like football form the side, just not at the banks's because the pillars take the piss. cack.

[King Crimson]

The facilities under the stand are also very much improved compared to how they were the first time I tried the F2G several years ago. Back then it was hopeless trying to get a drink, some food, or even to get a place in the queue for a pee.

Declining support for the club to the extent of us having less than 3000 home fans helps with all the above.

Remember queuing to drive away from the ground? :(

[Fray Bentos is God!]

The facilities under the stand are also very much improved compared to how they were the first time I tried the F2G several years ago. Back then it was hopeless trying to get a drink, some food, or even to get a place in the queue for a pee.

Declining support for the club to the extent of us having less than 3000 home fans helps with all the above.

Remember queuing to drive away from the ground? :(

I thought Bonser was still in charge.

[King Crimson]

The facilities under the stand are also very much improved compared to how they were the first time I tried the F2G several years ago. Back then it was hopeless trying to get a drink, some food, or even to get a place in the queue for a pee.

Declining support for the club to the extent of us having less than 3000 home fans helps with all the above.

Remember queuing to drive away from the ground? :(

I thought Bonser was still in charge.

Either he's left, or our form has improved. ;)

[We-ARE-Walsall]

The facilities under the stand are also very much improved compared to how they were the first time I tried the F2G several years ago. Back then it was hopeless trying to get a drink, some food, or even to get a place in the queue for a pee.

Declining support for the club to the extent of us having less than 3000 home fans helps with all the above.

Remember queuing to drive away from the ground? :(

I thought Bonser was still in charge.

Either he's left, or our form has improved. ;)

That can't be right surely, our attendances have nothing to do with form, or League position do they ???

Either way, I would still probably forget your sons chocolate bar when I go to the bar :D

[King Crimson]

The facilities under the stand are also very much improved compared to how they were the first time I tried the F2G several years ago. Back then it was hopeless trying to get a drink, some food, or even to get a place in the queue for a pee.

Declining support for the club to the extent of us having less than 3000 home fans helps with all the above.

Remember queuing to drive away from the ground? :(

I thought Bonser was still in charge.

Either he's left, or our form has improved. ;)

That can't be right surely, our attendances have nothing to do with form, or League position do they ???

OK, so when's Scott Dann coming back then?

[geoffwhiting]

The facilities under the stand are also very much improved compared to how they were the first time I tried the F2G several years ago. Back then it was hopeless trying to get a drink, some food, or even to get a place in the queue for a pee.

Declining support for the club to the extent of us having less than 3000 home fans helps with all the above.
Remember queuing to drive away from the ground? :(

It does indeed, but when I last (until now) watched a game from the F2G, there were only the bare facilities, with no Stadium suite (or whatever they call it), no partitions, carpets, tables etc. It was just an empty shell, with inadequately staffed bars and food serveries, and I felt much better provided-for in the HL Fellows.
We still had to queue for a while to get off the car park last Tuesday, but I tookthe precaution of parking at some distance for Saturday's game.