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Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Reports and reaction from the 2010-11 season as Walsall finished 20th in League 1
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bleed_red_n_white
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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:27 am

My player rating....

Walker 7 - Solid

Westlake 9 - My MOTM, played an absolute blinder, he's definatly Bonsors next cash in.
Lancashire 7 - Came good in the end after a shaky start.
Butler 8 - Commanding and assured looks an absolute dead ringer of Mark Hughes, thankyfully he's a better player haha.
Lescott 6 - Not his worst game, but definatly the weak link in the side, Mcgivern must start ahead of him on Tues.

Nicholls 6 - Not his best not his worst, still far to liteweight in the tackle and conseeds stupid needless fouls.
Taundry 5 - Far to irratic at times, hardly ever picks the right pass.
Marshall 5 - First half he was absolute garbage, looked like he'd never seen a ball in his life, improved second half and pinged all the ball around nice at times.
Richards 7 - Scored 2 great goals, but caused there goal, Jimmy saved it he steals in to clear falls flat on his arse leaving it for Grella to volly in.

Macken 7 - I fully believe we havent seen anywhere the best of him and we wont while Hutchings is at the club.
Reid 7 - Had a good game, caused problems with he pace and power, the people shouting behind because he didnt chase everything down like a headless chicken are fools, he was clearly shattered and must of signeled about 5 times to come off before that clueless prat Hutchings realised.


Im pleased we won but this team still worries me, we seem to need to go a goal down before we even try, have we ever taken the game to a side this season, agen thats down to Dogface not motavating the team.

Hutchings Out!
Last edited by bleed_red_n_white on Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:59 am

Always thought Westlake had the makings of a quality player , pleased to read good reports on him .

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:35 pm

(Marshall 5) - First half he was absolute garbage, looked like he'd never seen a ball in his life, improved second half and pinged all the ball around nice at times.
watching highlights wasnt it marshall who nicked the ball off them and was foulded on the edge of there box which resulted in the winning goal for walsall
i think he was worth more than 5

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:44 pm

morethanuknow wrote:(Marshall 5) - First half he was absolute garbage, looked like he'd never seen a ball in his life, improved second half and pinged all the ball around nice at times.
watching highlights wasnt it marshall who nicked the ball off them and was foulded on the edge of there box which resulted in the winning goal for walsall
i think he was worth more than 5


I think he was worth more than a five too. That free kick was in the second half though.

He was pretty anonymous in the first and improved a lot in the second.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:53 pm

So the consensus is that we are still weak in the middle of the park. Has anything changed about this fact since Vinny Samways left the club?!

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:00 pm

listening on saddlers player it sounded like we should of scored off the marshall,s corners and freekicks as the commentry got very excited when the ball came into the box and i got the impresion we should of done more to convert them into goals. maybe he got better during the game because hes just getting more game time

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:15 pm

bleed_red_n_white wrote:My player rating....

Walker 7 - Solid

Westlake 9 - My MOTM, played an absolute blinder, he's definatly Bonsors next cash in.
Lancashire 7 - Came good in the end after a shaky start.
Butler 8 - Commanding and assured looks an absolute dead ringer of Mark Hughes, thankyfully he's a better player haha.
Lescott 6 - Not his worst game, but definatly the weak link in the side, Mcgivern must start ahead of him on Tues.

Nicholls 6 - Not his best not his worst, still far to liteweight in the tackle and conseeds stupid needless fouls.
Taundry 5 - Far to irratic at times, hardly ever picks the right pass.
Marshall 5 - First half he was absolute garbage, looked like he'd never seen a ball in his life, improved second half and pinged all the ball around nice at times.
Richards 7 - Scored to great goals, but caused there goal, Jimmy saved it he steals in to clear falls flat on his backside leaving it for Grella to volly in.

Macken 7 - I fully believe he havent seen anywhere the best of him and we wont while Hutchings is at the club.
Reid 7 - Had a good game, caused problems with he pace and power, the people shouting behind because he didnt chase everything down like a headless chicken are fools, he was clearly shattered and must of signeled about 5 times to come off before that clueless part Hutchings realised.


Im pleased we won but this team still worries me, we seem to need to go a goal down before we even try, have we ever taken the game to a side this season, agen thats down to Dogface not motavating the team.

Hutchings Out!


Actually, have a look at the TV pictures. I'm afraid that Marshall was equally culpable, in that he was with Grella, marking him, outside the box and didn't go with his run

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:55 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
bleed_red_n_white wrote:My player rating....

Walker 7 - Solid

Westlake 9 - My MOTM, played an absolute blinder, he's definatly Bonsors next cash in.
Lancashire 7 - Came good in the end after a shaky start.
Butler 8 - Commanding and assured looks an absolute dead ringer of Mark Hughes, thankyfully he's a better player haha.
Lescott 6 - Not his worst game, but definatly the weak link in the side, Mcgivern must start ahead of him on Tues.

Nicholls 6 - Not his best not his worst, still far to liteweight in the tackle and conseeds stupid needless fouls.
Taundry 5 - Far to irratic at times, hardly ever picks the right pass.
Marshall 5 - First half he was absolute garbage, looked like he'd never seen a ball in his life, improved second half and pinged all the ball around nice at times.
Richards 7 - Scored to great goals, but caused there goal, Jimmy saved it he steals in to clear falls flat on his backside leaving it for Grella to volly in.

Macken 7 - I fully believe he havent seen anywhere the best of him and we wont while Hutchings is at the club.
Reid 7 - Had a good game, caused problems with he pace and power, the people shouting behind because he didnt chase everything down like a headless chicken are fools, he was clearly shattered and must of signeled about 5 times to come off before that clueless part Hutchings realised.


Im pleased we won but this team still worries me, we seem to need to go a goal down before we even try, have we ever taken the game to a side this season, agen thats down to Dogface not motavating the team.

Hutchings Out!


Actually, have a look at the TV pictures. I'm afraid that Marshall was equally culpable, in that he was with Grella, marking him, outside the box and didn't go with his run


I havent seen the TV footage to comment, it all happened to quick to notice everyone at the game but it wouldnt suprise me if he was because it he rubbish in the first half.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:45 pm

before what you see in the highlights on players saddler they said richards gave the ball away and what you see on the highlights is players like marshall trying to get back and retrieve the situation thats why richards is getting the blame and not marshall richards stood and let the guy run who scored marshall tried to get there and cover him i cant see how your blaming marshall.mind you saddlers player is one of the worst commentry duos i have ever listened to so maybe im wrong
Last edited by morethanuknow on Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:46 pm

morethanuknow wrote:before what you see in the highlights on players saddler they said richards gave the ball away and what you see on the highlights is players like marshall trying to get back and retrieve the situation thats why richards is getting the blame and not marshall richards stood and let the guy run who scored marshall tried to get there and cover him i cant see how your blaming marshall



I don't know what they said on player - I was at the game!

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:49 pm

if you was at the game then can i ask why you are quoting the highlights .in your opinion as you was at the game what happened for there goal because like i said you cant trust saddlers player and everyone is saying richards but you say it was marshall.what i dont understand is why are you so negative towards this kid and you can omly pick on the negatives he played apart in us winning the game as he did against plymouth but some fans on here cant wait to kill him i dont get it.all im saying is some of you need to give the kid some credit for is part in a win .and to be honest you are the only one who was at the game who said it was marshalls fault

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:03 pm

morethanuknow wrote:if you was at the game then can i ask why you are quoting the highlights .in your opinion as you was at the game what happened for there goal because like i said you cant trust saddlers player and everyone is saying richards but you say it was marshall.what i dont understand is why are you so negative towards this kid and you can omly pick on the negatives he played apart in us winning the game as he did against plymouth but some fans on here cant wait to kill him i dont get it.all im saying is some of you need to give the kid some credit for is part in a win .and to be honest you are the only one who was at the game who said it was marshalls fault


You misunderstand - that was a response to the strange people on here who want to blame Richards fro every goal, global warming and the terrorist threat. He was partly at fault for the goal, but so was Marshall, that's all

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:08 pm

i feel that with him being a kid i bet he reads these forums and i bet hes scared shitles before he even kicks a ball im not a richards hater and i feel we are more solid with him rather than gray hence the 2 wins but i feel we do nothing with richards and taundry in the middle together and results prove that i think the more the kid finds his feet he will improve big time and that can only be good for us

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:27 pm

morethanuknow wrote:before what you see in the highlights on players saddler they said richards gave the ball away and what you see on the highlights is players like marshall trying to get back and retrieve the situation thats why richards is getting the blame and not marshall richards stood and let the guy run who scored marshall tried to get there and cover him i cant see how your blaming marshall.mind you saddlers player is one of the worst commentry duos i have ever listened to so maybe im wrong


Except for their goal Marshall had stopped outside the box.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:54 pm

fraybentos
so it was marshalls fault your saying it was him who gave the ball away.so because the keeper didnt make a save it was hes fault aswel.it was richards fault or is that hard to accept
and it was richards who scored 2 great goals and it was marshall who won the freekick for the second goal which won us the game or is this not true.cut the kid some slack and give him some credit for what he did instead of pounding him for something he didnt do.i dont understand why some fans no matter what are not willing to give some players credit when they deserve it and i feel he deserves some credit for our victory yesterday like richards desrves a lot of credit for scoring 2 great goals now what is so hard about that .i dont want to get into the richards,marshall taundry,debate i was just replying to some of the negative remarks about this kid from certain fans who no matter what only want to see richards back in the middle and i felt by giving marshall and taundry a 5 is a joke to be honest with you as a 5 means they didnt do anything actualy

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:03 pm

Having seen the clip I think accusing Richards of 'causing' the goal is a bit rich. At least he was in the vicinity and in a split second (for anyone who has played) those kinds of things can go any which way. You could equally accuse the bloke on the line for not clearing. Who was meant to be marking the goal scorer?

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:01 pm

Well pleased about this win. 3 much-needed points. Hope it's the start of something.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:10 pm

Jorge14 wrote:So the consensus is that we are still weak in the middle of the park. Has anything changed about this fact since Vinny Samways left the club?!

I said the same a few weeks ago. Numerous non-entities have shown up in that position since Samways left for his place in the sun.

That would be my only criticism of Hutchings yesterday. Richards needs to be playing in the middle, or failing that, Hutchings needs to bring in someone else who is equally comfortable on the ball. I'm not saying we got lucky yesterday, but we just lack that bit of quality where Taundry & Marshall are concerned.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:10 pm

and tell me this mr rob what have we done this season with richards in the middle obviously you dont have a clue because if you did you would realise we were quite solid yesterday and was alright going forward wich we have lacked all season and funny enough richards wasnt in the middle.i agree we need a midfielder but not richards im sorry but he hasnt done anything to suggest he is better than anyone else in that position its strange that since hes moved out of midfield weve won 2 or maybe im making it up
i like your comment someone who is equaly good on the ball as richards your having a laugh mate

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 am

morethanuknow wrote:fraybentos
so it was marshalls fault your saying it was him who gave the ball away.so because the keeper didnt make a save it was hes fault aswel.it was richards fault or is that hard to accept
and it was richards who scored 2 great goals and it was marshall who won the freekick for the second goal which won us the game or is this not true.cut the kid some slack and give him some credit for what he did instead of pounding him for something he didnt do.i dont understand why some fans no matter what are not willing to give some players credit when they deserve it and i feel he deserves some credit for our victory yesterday like richards desrves a lot of credit for scoring 2 great goals now what is so hard about that .i dont want to get into the richards,marshall taundry,debate i was just replying to some of the negative remarks about this kid from certain fans who no matter what only want to see richards back in the middle and i felt by giving marshall and taundry a 5 is a joke to be honest with you as a 5 means they didnt do anything actualy


No, I said it was Richards who gave the ball away trying to clear it. I also said that Marshall had lost Grella about 15 yards before he scored.

I also said that Marshall really did well after an anonymous first half. Read the whole post instead of seeing what you want.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:08 am

You can tell none of you lot have ever played much competitive football!

Richards was at fault for the first goal because he totally lost his man. Watch the fella casually run in to our box from our left (their right), while Richards jogs - yes - JOGS - after him - it's called "Ball watching" - ever heard that before? This fella then shoots, which Jimmy saves, and a scramble ensues, Richards goes in with a karate chop (not an attempted clearance, how the hell is he going to clear it by just waggling his leg at it?) while the rest of the defence stand pretty still - but if it wasn't for one player losing his marker, the chance wouldn't have arisen in the first place.

And some people on this board gave Richards credit for "being the first to react" ... well, so he bloody should be, it was his lack of marking that let Carlisle have such a bloody clear cut chance!

As for Cully's stats, thank you very much for proving me right, here is the break down:

Pass completion rate: 75% - (thats very poor, midfielders should be around the 85-90% mark, to lose the ball once every fourth time you get it qualifies you as a liability. Also, in your stats, I bet you've included the 3 "hoofs" forward than Reid chased down, so 75% is generous)

Tackles: 12, Tackles won 3 (although I only remember 1): so a Tackle win rate of 25% (again 25% is generous as I only remember 1, but quite awful)

Headers: 11 challenges in the air, 2 headers won: Heading win rate of 19% (Terrible)

Crosses (remember, he was playing as a wide-midfielder): 2, (one went out for a goal kick, the other hit the first man) Cross Success rate 0%.

So his passing is poor, his tackling is even worse, he can't win the ball in the air for toffee, and he can't cross. But he scored 2 free kicks, so that makes him a great player. :shock:

And as for WFC_Rob asking for Richards to be moved back in the middle - are you mad? Our best run of the season has coincided with him being shipped out to the left, and you want him back in the middle?
Last edited by philthesaddler on Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:12 am

philthesaddler wrote:You can tell none of you lot have ever played much competitive football!


Any chance you can send me a copy of you in a Panini sticker album then? Just to confirm, like.

From pitiful to embarrassing.

You didn't see Marshall stop following Grella into the box then?

Bless you, you little monkey xxx

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:16 am

Fray Bentos is God! wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:You can tell none of you lot have ever played much competitive football!


Any chance you can send me a copy of you in a Panini sticker album then? Just to confirm, like.

From pitiful to embarrassing.

You didn't see Marshall stop following Grella into the box then?

Bless you, you little monkey xxx


Well the ball wouldn't have dropped to Grella if a. Richards had marked his man properly and thus stopped the initial shot and b. managed a better clearance. The root cause of the chance was Richards poor marking (which I pointed out at half time on this thread, but I know nothing about football do I?).

How was Marshall to know where the ball would drop? At that split second the scramble was happening in the box, it was backs to the wall time. Maybe he should have followed Grella in - maybe Grella wasn't his man? I dont know, all I know is, Man of the Match superstar cant-put-a-foot-wrong-cos-he-scores-the-odd-free-kick Matt Richards was the problem, hence why all their successful attacks came down our left.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:28 am

If you read the thread, dear, you'd see that pretty much everybody has apportioned blame onto Richards for botching the clearance. But you're right, Phil, because you once played for Huddersfield Town reserves or some other high level. Well, you didn't, but it fits the depth of the chip on your shoulder.

Marshall didn't follow his man in, not totally his fault as I've already said Richards has cocked up. If it was Richards who had to follow his man though, you'd be over it like a man with a vendetta (oh wait)

I'll sign off with this. You say that 75% is a liability of passing in midfield? If he had completed one pass more to make it 10/13, he'd be on 81% ish.

The same percentage score that Danny Murphy got to get him into the top 5 passers in the PL last week.

Editty bit... I just looked at the Champs League 2nd Round 1st leg stats (I can't be arsed to trawl Google for ages) and I found that only 4/16 teams in there had pass completion rates of 75%. Below 75% were Arsenal, Milan, Inter and Lyon. Now I'm not calling MR better than any of those teams... He wouldn't be good enough to be a cleaner there. But to say it's a liability is a bit strong, dear.

xxx

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:45 am

Fray Bentos is God! wrote:If you read the thread, dear, you'd see that pretty much everybody has apportioned blame onto Richards for botching the clearance. Marshall didn't follow his man in, not totally his fault as I've already said Richards has cocked up. If it was Richards who had to follow his man though, you'd be over it like a man with a vendetta (oh wait)
I'll sign off with this. You say that 75% is a liability of passing in midfield? If he had completed one pass more to make it 10/13, he'd be on 81% ish.
The same percentage score that Danny Murphy got to get him into the top 5 passers in the PL last week.
xxx


Gary,

Firstly, I dont actually blame Richards for the botched clearance, he did his best in the situation, the ball was bouncing at an awkward height and the strikers legs were flailing - no one would have put their head in there, perhaps Paul Ritchie - but thats not what Richards did wrong in that passage of play - and for people to think that is what he did wrong in that passage of play (to continue your analogy) shows their rather shallow football knowledge. He could possibly have gone in with a more decisive challenge, whereas from memory he went in like the karate kid, which wasn't ever going to achieve anything, but he did his best, I know he's not a tackler, thats fine, losing your marker is a totally different matter though.

When you play competitively, you spend most of your time thinking "wheres my marker?", or you've got your skipper shouting in your earhole "get your marker" - seriously, marking your man is a huge part of the game, the top players will exploit just a moments lapse of concentration from their marker.

You also mention his passing, but again, you fail to notice the irony. You say that if he had completed one more pass he'd have had a much higher pass completion rate - yes he would, (and you subsequently compare to Danny Murphy). Is 21 successful passes in 90 minutes a good performance? I think not. If he'd have achieved 75% with say 40 passes, or 50 maybe, then fair enough, but he was barely in the game.

I've just checked Danny Murphy's stats for the game against Man City yesterday, and again, funnily enough, it backs up what I said. He achieved a very high pass completion rate (88%), but that was from 43 passes.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:51 am

philthesaddler wrote:
Fray Bentos is God! wrote:If you read the thread, dear, you'd see that pretty much everybody has apportioned blame onto Richards for botching the clearance. Marshall didn't follow his man in, not totally his fault as I've already said Richards has cocked up. If it was Richards who had to follow his man though, you'd be over it like a man with a vendetta (oh wait)
I'll sign off with this. You say that 75% is a liability of passing in midfield? If he had completed one pass more to make it 10/13, he'd be on 81% ish.
The same percentage score that Danny Murphy got to get him into the top 5 passers in the PL last week.
xxx


Gary,

Firstly, I dont actually blame Richards for the botched clearance, he did his best in the situation, the ball was bouncing at an awkward height and the strikers legs were flailing - no one would have put their head in there, perhaps Paul Ritchie - but thats not what Richards did wrong in that passage of play - and for people to think that is what he did wrong in that passage of play (to continue your analogy) shows their rather shallow football knowledge.

When you play competitively, you spend most of your time thinking "wheres my marker?", or you've got your skipper shouting in your earhole "get your marker" - seriously, marking your man is a huge part of the game, the top players will exploit just a moments lapse of concentration from their marker.

You also mention his passing, but again, you fail to notice the irony. You say that if he had completed one more pass he'd have had a much higher pass completion rate - yes he would, (and you subsequently compare to Danny Murphy). Is 21 successful passes in 90 minutes a good performance? I think not. If he'd have achieved 75% with say 40 passes, or 50 maybe, then fair enough, but he was barely in the game.

I've just checked Danny Murphy's stats for the game against Man City yesterday, and again, funnily enough, it backs up what I said. He achieved a very high pass completion rate (88%), but that was from 43 passes.


So where's the criticism of Marshall. Who lost Grella light years behind the goal.

You go onto the small amount of passes he made... I'm not sure how many makes a good day to be honest, and I'm not too bothered really. What I do know is that he has the ball and passed it off successfully 75% of the time. What do you want? Him to tackle a team mate to crank up the stats?

If I have 28 kids in my class and 7 are consistently absent, is it my fault that they haven't got the teaching they need? Do I have to go round their house?

If he hasn't got the ball, he can't pass it. That's no criticism or praise of him.

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:57 am

just watched the highlights on saddlers player and i would like to congratulate marshall for some fantastic deliveries into the box he laid 2 on a plate for butler and macken and some fine intervention for nicking it on the edge of the box which resulted in our winning goal .and also 2 fine strikes by richards
i wonder who said he was the worst ever walsall player because it would be nice to know what he drinks or smokes

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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:59 am


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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:02 pm

can i say if you watch the highlights matty richards was in the middle once and under no presure at all he gave them the ball and it nearly cost us dear as they came at us walsall was thinking on the front foot and then all of a sudden carlisle nearly scored through an unforgivible pass and this is why for me he isnt a cm but 2 great goals from him though.the saddlers player shows you more than the bbc

cumbria-saddler
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Re: Carlisle United (H) League 1 Saturday 20/11/10.

Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:04 pm

Richards was playing wide left, so would you expect a winger to complete as many passes as a central midfielder (eg. Murphy)? i wouldnt, being in CM you would probably expect to see the ball a lot more than someone who is playing on the wing. The same goes for the tackling stats, you'd expect a CM to do more tackles than a winger and Richards was playing on the wing in this game.

Phil, youve said that our most succesful spell this season has been when Marshall and Taundry have been in the middle together. Do you propose that Richards should start on the left everyweek, as he's played there the last two games which we have won?

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