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Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Reports and reaction from the 2010-11 season as Walsall finished 20th in League 1
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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:35 pm

Pangloss Saddler wrote:...the Saddlers were unfortunate to lose yet another game by the odd goal.


I really want to believe Hutch in his post match report when he says we need to believe in ourselves.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:44 pm

A deeply depressing display. We didn't get our act together until 60 minutes into the game. I think the only decent chance we had in the first half was when Macken headed over from a good left-wing cross. Swindon tore us apart for the first half an hour and could have been three up inside 15 minutes.
Richards was well worth his MOTM award.
I cannot understand why McGivern was played so wide on the left when Gray is so much better suited to that role. I don't understand what Gray's role in the team is, and I'm not too sure that Gray does either. I think that goes a great deal of the way towards explaining the inconsistancy he shows.

Irrespective of how Brain played today, why was he in the team? Under what circumstances can Hutchings justify dropping him in the future if he still thinks he should be in the starting line-line up after his display at Rochdale.
My mate - who has forgotten more about Walsall that I will ever know - reminded me of Ray Graydon's decision to take off Carl Emberson at half-time, when he'd had absolute mare of a first 45 minutes, and replace him with Jimmy Walker. Emberson barely had a look in forthe rest of the season and left at the end of it. Even though Emberson had been brought in to provide competition for Walker, Graydon was strong enough to take a tough decision and stick by it.
Hutchings has signed Brain as his Number One and appears determined to stick to that decision irrespective of any evidence to the contrary. How must Bevan feel? Is he only going to get in the team if Brain is injured or sent off? For me, that decision puts even more focus on Hutchings' limitations as a Manager. Whether or not it materially effected the outcome of today's match it highlights the inflexibility of his approach and his reluctance to change from the familiar.
Last edited by mel58 on Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:46 pm

Bevan must be wondering what he has to do to get a game. Poor fella.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:54 pm

yoda wrote:Bevan must be wondering what he has to do to get a game. Poor fella.


He'll have to keep on performing in the reserve league, erm, friendlies.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:08 pm

Pangloss Saddler wrote:An excellent game which was appreciated by a pleasingly higher turnout of Saddlers fans.
Richards covered every blade of grass on the pitch and fully deserved his MOTM award.
As I have said many times, the Saddlers were unfortunate to lose yet another game by the odd goal.


You can't keep on being "unfortunate to lose yet another game by the odd goal". If, as you say, you've said it many times, then surely you can see that you've said it too often. It is NOT unfortunate to keep losing by the odd goal, it is downright unprofessional and unacceptable.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:29 pm

Zippy wrote:
Zece_WFC wrote:No one expects us to be in first place winning every game... but people don't pay hard earned money on a season ticket to see us lose 5 in a row... get a grip.


I am gutted, just like the rest of us, when we lose.

Ok, we have lost 5 in a row, no doubt, we will win 5 in a row before the end of the season if not more.

I just do not subscribe to the premature panic senario.
its not premature.the cracks last season were papered over by a few wins at the end of the season.we simply have not signed enough quality.dont tell me the deeney money has been spent on a couple of loans and freebies.i like macken and reid but the rest are inferior to what we had last season.we wont win five in a row with this squad i will bet my house on it if you want. :twisted:

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:51 am

King Crimson wrote:wfc_rob has it spot on. Smith needs an eternity to make a decision when he has the ball, and usually makes a bad one. McDonald doesn't decide anything. He just instinctively clears his lines any way he can.

And a brief message for the long-haired, bespectacled young man in the Floors2Go middle two rows back from me who saw fit to boo the announcement of Richards as MoM: you're a t***.


Sorry, but I have to disagree with him completely on one thing - I thought McGivern, far from being MOM, was dreadful. A full backs first job is to defend and, defensively, he was less than useless yesterday. In a 4 3 3, with no wingers, you do not bomb forward the way he was doing, as all he achieved was to leave huge gaps I could have exploited. To make things worse, he then hit the first man with almost every cross.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:12 am

mel58 wrote:We didn't get our act together until 60 minutes into the game. I think the only decent chance we had in the first half was when Macken headed over from a good left-wing cross.


I think that sentence sums up some people's determination to watch our team through crud tinted spectacles.

In the first half their keeper made brilliant saves, firstly from Davies after a fantastic move down the right. He then bettered that saving low at his near post from a Mannie Smith header. Mcgivern also had an effort from 5 yards well blocked by a defender.

The selective labotomy service that obliterates anything positive the team did seems to be doing a roaring trade.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:18 am

PT wrote:
mel58 wrote:We didn't get our act together until 60 minutes into the game. I think the only decent chance we had in the first half was when Macken headed over from a good left-wing cross.


I think that sentence sums up some people's determination to watch our team through crud tinted spectacles.

In the first half their keeper made brilliant saves, firstly from Davies after a fantastic move down the right. He then bettered that saving low at his near post from a Mannie Smith header. Mcgivern also had an effort from 5 yards well blocked by a defender.

The selective labotomy service that obliterates anything positive the team did seems to be doing a roaring trade.


I think the display in the first 30 minutes meant that many of us had our heads in our hands for the rest of the half....

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:37 am

PT wrote:
mel58 wrote:We didn't get our act together until 60 minutes into the game. I think the only decent chance we had in the first half was when Macken headed over from a good left-wing cross.


I think that sentence sums up some people's determination to watch our team through crud tinted spectacles.

In the first half their keeper made brilliant saves, firstly from Davies after a fantastic move down the right. He then bettered that saving low at his near post from a Mannie Smith header. Mcgivern also had an effort from 5 yards well blocked by a defender.

The selective labotomy service that obliterates anything positive the team did seems to be doing a roaring trade.


We were a lot better in the second half but that is in comparison to the utter tat we were in the first. Any argument against the fact that we should (and deserved) to be 3 or 4 down by half time is just a determination to see things through rose tinited spectacles (IMHO).

When it comes to the crunch we have lost 5 on the bounce and our manager shows absolutely no sign of knowing how to change that.

I've got to laugh at Pangloss. When we're relegated we can all console ourseleves that we were unfortunate to lose so many games by one goal.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:52 am

tinned wrote:We were a lot better in the second half but that is in comparison to the utter tat we were in the first. Any argument against the fact that we should (and deserved) to be 3 or 4 down by half time is just a determination to see things through rose tinited spectacles (IMHO).


I completely agree. I was just pointing out that Mel had seemed to have forgotten three of the four great opportunities we made in the first half.That in no way is at odds with the fact we could have been 3 or 4 down before creating any of those chances, it just adds a bit of balance.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:11 am

If Lancashire replaces Smith, havent just replaced one oaf with another oaf? He turns like an oil tanker, at least he can pass i suppose.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:22 am

Went to the game yesterday, went home, been to bed, and I'm still not sure whether we were unlucky or rubbish. The differences in some of the responses on this thread suggest I'm not the only one.

I think we all agree we were cack in the first half and should have been more than one behind. However, we seemed to do well after half time and following the equaliser I thought we were gonna be the only side to win it (although I must admit, I did sit there thinking how peed off I'd be if I was a Swindon fan and we'd lost that game). There winner seemed to bounce off their player and wrong foot Brain, but haven't seen it again.

We played 4-3-3 to start with, and once Reid came on it became what was almost a 4-1-2-3 with Richards sitting in front of the back four and then Davis and Gray playing just behind Byfield, Macken and Reid up front :shock: :shock: :shock: Very gung ho!

There was a loud bang in the final moments of the game as Philthesaddler fell off his chair at the announcement of Richards as MOTM. To be honest I don't think he played as well as he did in recent weeks, and I thought Davis had the better game. I did notice though that as Richards got better, so did the team.

McGivern thinks he's Ashley Cole and will be a cracking player in a decent team. Unfortunately he plays for us and therefore struggles as a result. His crossing was terrible though and hit the first man nearly every time.

I think we were unlucky, and we haven't lost a game by more than one goal yet, although you do get the feeling its only a matter of time. We have lost 5 on the bounce. We've lost 5 out of 6 at home, 7 out of 9 in all competitions and, if you include the friendlies, have lost 11 out of the 14 games we've played since the start of pre-season. That is a shocking stat but I do still feel we could just as easily win two or three games on the spin too. Next five games are all winnable. The question for JB is, do we allow CH these games to save his job or do we get rid now and try and get someone in more likely to win them. Personally I'd give him the games.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:31 am

If we dont take all 3 points at hartlepool then I would certainly sack him to give us a fighting chance in these 'winnable' games. New start brings fresh hope. That's what this team needs. So saying that, I wouldnt be suprised to see him sacked come monday morning.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:48 am

If anyones brought the Sunday Mercury this morning, take a look at their first goal. Brains got his eyes shut :shock:

Now im not a goalkeeping coach and the best I could do was become a sunday league footballer (a bad one at that) but arent you supposed to keep your eye on the ball at all times???

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:14 pm

Both Swindons goals were shots from distance, deflected in by another player. Always an element of luck in those goals.

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Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:37 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote: In a 4 3 3, with no wingers, you do not bomb forward the way he was doing, as all he achieved was to leave huge gaps I could have exploited. To make things worse, he then hit the first man with almost every cross.

Agree about not getting the cross in, but as for "not bombing forward", that's exactly what full backs should be doing. Otherwise you've no width at all. Look at why full backs are such a premium these days - Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Balletti - because more teams are playing 4-3-4. Chelsea being perhaps the best case in point.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:12 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote: In a 4 3 3, with no wingers, you do not bomb forward the way he was doing, as all he achieved was to leave huge gaps I could have exploited. To make things worse, he then hit the first man with almost every cross.

Agree about not getting the cross in, but as for "not bombing forward", that's exactly what full backs should be doing. Otherwise you've no width at all. Look at why full backs are such a premium these days - Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Balletti - because more teams are playing 4-3-4. Chelsea being perhaps the best case in point.


No wonder Chelsea win so often if they've got 11 outfield players!

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:16 pm

PeruSaddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote: In a 4 3 3, with no wingers, you do not bomb forward the way he was doing, as all he achieved was to leave huge gaps I could have exploited. To make things worse, he then hit the first man with almost every cross.

Agree about not getting the cross in, but as for "not bombing forward", that's exactly what full backs should be doing. Otherwise you've no width at all. Look at why full backs are such a premium these days - Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Balletti - because more teams are playing 4-3-4. Chelsea being perhaps the best case in point.


No wonder Chelsea win so often if they've got 11 outfield players!


TYPO!!!!!! Pesky iphone! :D

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:34 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote: In a 4 3 3, with no wingers, you do not bomb forward the way he was doing, as all he achieved was to leave huge gaps I could have exploited. To make things worse, he then hit the first man with almost every cross.

Agree about not getting the cross in, but as for "not bombing forward", that's exactly what full backs should be doing. Otherwise you've no width at all. Look at why full backs are such a premium these days - Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Balletti - because more teams are playing 4-3-4. Chelsea being perhaps the best case in point.


Yes, but they play with 1 or 2 defensive midfielders to cover for the full backs. We don't even have one.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:53 pm

Zippy wrote:
Zece_WFC wrote:No one expects us to be in first place winning every game... but people don't pay hard earned money on a season ticket to see us lose 5 in a row... get a grip.


I am gutted, just like the rest of us, when we lose.

Ok, we have lost 5 in a row, no doubt, we will win 5 in a row before the end of the season if not more.

I just do not subscribe to the premature panic senario.


were going to win 5 games in a row

i would love to see the odds on that one

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:59 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote: In a 4 3 3, with no wingers, you do not bomb forward the way he was doing, as all he achieved was to leave huge gaps I could have exploited. To make things worse, he then hit the first man with almost every cross.

Agree about not getting the cross in, but as for "not bombing forward", that's exactly what full backs should be doing. Otherwise you've no width at all. Look at why full backs are such a premium these days - Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Balletti - because more teams are playing 4-3-4. Chelsea being perhaps the best case in point.


Yes, but they play with 1 or 2 defensive midfielders to cover for the full backs. We don't even have one.


That's not McGivern's fault. He's been coached and trained well for the Prem and served his apprenticeship in The Championship. If team orders mean we need a full back who doesn't provide an attacking option, we (a) will have to resign ourselves to the fact that we will have zero width whatsoever, and (b) may as well play someone like Lancashire there.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:45 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote: In a 4 3 3, with no wingers, you do not bomb forward the way he was doing, as all he achieved was to leave huge gaps I could have exploited. To make things worse, he then hit the first man with almost every cross.

Agree about not getting the cross in, but as for "not bombing forward", that's exactly what full backs should be doing. Otherwise you've no width at all. Look at why full backs are such a premium these days - Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Balletti - because more teams are playing 4-3-4. Chelsea being perhaps the best case in point.


Yes, but they play with 1 or 2 defensive midfielders to cover for the full backs. We don't even have one.


That's not McGivern's fault. He's been coached and trained well for the Prem and served his apprenticeship in The Championship. If team orders mean we need a full back who doesn't provide an attacking option, we (a) will have to resign ourselves to the fact that we will have zero width whatsoever, and (b) may as well play someone like Lancashire there.


You're arguing the wrong point - Hutchings should have given him proper instructions about what he should/should not be doing.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:58 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote: In a 4 3 3, with no wingers, you do not bomb forward the way he was doing, as all he achieved was to leave huge gaps I could have exploited. To make things worse, he then hit the first man with almost every cross.

Agree about not getting the cross in, but as for "not bombing forward", that's exactly what full backs should be doing. Otherwise you've no width at all. Look at why full backs are such a premium these days - Ashley Cole, Glen Johnson, Balletti - because more teams are playing 4-3-4. Chelsea being perhaps the best case in point.


Yes, but they play with 1 or 2 defensive midfielders to cover for the full backs. We don't even have one.


That's not McGivern's fault. He's been coached and trained well for the Prem and served his apprenticeship in The Championship. If team orders mean we need a full back who doesn't provide an attacking option, we (a) will have to resign ourselves to the fact that we will have zero width whatsoever, and (b) may as well play someone like Lancashire there.


You're arguing the wrong point - Hutchings should have given him proper instructions about what he should/should not be doing.


No - you're not being realistic. He's played a handful of games for us, and in between those few games he's been away on international duty. To expect Hutchings to say "don't cross the half way line" and for him to stop doing what's become instinctive from all last season at Leicester and his training prior to that is daft.

Anyway, I thought Marshall was the answer to our 'put your foot in'/robust/combative midfielder worries. Not quite worked out that way. Still, he watches Richards run around a lot - which is nice.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:27 pm

No, I don't think we have an answer to my 'put your foot in'/robust/combative midfielder worries", that's the point I'm making. Neither was Mattis, nor Bradley. However, all of them would have benifited from having a "minder", as witnessed by Bradley and Mattis's arguably best games for us being in a 4 5 1, whcih the much maligned Dobson playing the holding role. Oh for the assistant manager 20 years younger.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:35 pm

I wont go into detail about the performance as im sure its pretty clear what occured by now. Reading this thread, i do have some observations to add though.

- Byfield's one of the only players willing to run, work hard and looks generally like he can be arsed to play for WFC.
- What's the obsession with Lancashire? His positiong is absolutely dreadful, the defence looks the same if not more vulnerable with him in, look at the marking for the goals at Brighton. The only quality he adds is that he can give a 10 yard pass to a midfielder coming to pick the ball up from defence, his defensive abilities are poor.
- Gray is not even 1/10th of the player he looked towards the end of last season, whether its confidence of attitude, i'd drop him for a few games.
- Hutchings was never going to drop Brain, fair enough he made 2 pathetic mistakes, but strikers get away with murder when they miss simple chances, like the simple goalkeeping tasks brain failed to deal with. I do agree though that he is cack.
- Both our fullbacks can attack, but cant defend all that well and neither are defensively as good as either Vincent or Weston.
- Not sure why everyone's getting so excited about Macken, dont think he's done that much if im honest, even if he got involved a little more than he has in previous games yesterday. I expected better.
- Marshall is crap. No better than O'keefe or Bradley, perhaps even worse.
- Not sure why Richards gets so much stick, he keeps the ball most of the times, picks the ball up from defence and generally starts most of our attacks.
- This side badly misses the pace of Jones.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:30 pm

PT wrote:
mel58 wrote:We didn't get our act together until 60 minutes into the game. I think the only decent chance we had in the first half was when Macken headed over from a good left-wing cross.


I think that sentence sums up some people's determination to watch our team through crud tinted spectacles.

In the first half their keeper made brilliant saves, firstly from Davies after a fantastic move down the right. He then bettered that saving low at his near post from a Mannie Smith header. Mcgivern also had an effort from 5 yards well blocked by a defender.

The selective labotomy service that obliterates anything positive the team did seems to be doing a roaring trade.


Yes, you are right. I was wrong. We did put Swindon under pressure a number of times during the first half in addition to the chance Macken had.

If I was going to have frontal lobe surgery perhaps I should have had it done 40-odd years ago and maybe then I would never have started following WFC in the first place!

I don't have a "Determination to watch our team through crud-tinted spectacles" - there's enough of the real stuff around to make the use of such a device unnecessary.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:50 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:Oh for the assistant manager 20 years younger.

Neil, you've just reminded me of a point I've been meaning to raise for a while with that line.

For the best part of three years now, we've had a midfield/group of midfielders who get overrun in more matches than they don't. Given that a certain Mr O'Connor is on the coaching staff, you'd have thought this would have been picked up on by now, wouldn't you?
O'Connor can't honestly think that the standard of midfield play at the Banks's is good enough, surely?

It's all very well justifying our ineffectual performances in the middle of the park by saying that the likes of Taundry and Marshall are young and still learning their trade, but the facts speak for themselves more often than not. We're not good enough and the management team have to realise that inexperience is a reason, but not an excuse.

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:49 pm

mel58 wrote:
PT wrote:
mel58 wrote:We didn't get our act together until 60 minutes into the game. I think the only decent chance we had in the first half was when Macken headed over from a good left-wing cross.


I think that sentence sums up some people's determination to watch our team through crud tinted spectacles.

In the first half their keeper made brilliant saves, firstly from Davies after a fantastic move down the right. He then bettered that saving low at his near post from a Mannie Smith header. Mcgivern also had an effort from 5 yards well blocked by a defender.

The selective labotomy service that obliterates anything positive the team did seems to be doing a roaring trade.


Yes, you are right. I was wrong. We did put Swindon under pressure a number of times during the first half in addition to the chance Macken had.

If I was going to have frontal lobe surgery perhaps I should have had it done 40-odd years ago and maybe then I would never have started following WFC in the first place!

I don't have a "Determination to watch our team through crud-tinted spectacles" - there's enough of the real stuff around to make the use of such a device unnecessary.


Great response - nice one! :D

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Re: Swindon Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/9/10.

Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:19 am

WFC_Rob wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:Oh for the assistant manager 20 years younger.

Neil, you've just reminded me of a point I've been meaning to raise for a while with that line.

For the best part of three years now, we've had a midfield/group of midfielders who get overrun in more matches than they don't. Given that a certain Mr O'Connor is on the coaching staff, you'd have thought this would have been picked up on by now, wouldn't you?
O'Connor can't honestly think that the standard of midfield play at the Banks's is good enough, surely?

It's all very well justifying our ineffectual performances in the middle of the park by saying that the likes of Taundry and Marshall are young and still learning their trade, but the facts speak for themselves more often than not. We're not good enough and the management team have to realise that inexperience is a reason, but not an excuse.


I hate to say it, but O'Connor is as much part of the problem as Hutchings

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