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Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Reports and reaction from the 2010-11 season as Walsall finished 20th in League 1
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Jorge14
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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:12 am

Some blinkered views on here. I thought we were strong and comfortable in possession, too often our final ball was lacking but I'd imagine that would improve when Jones returns and offers a bit more balance to the side. Reid and Macken looked impressive, until they tired. Unfortunately, we made three stand-out errors in the game and two were punished with goals. Brain shouldn't be beaten at his near post, but he made a couple of decent saves elsewhere in the game. Smith shouldn't have been turned so easily.

I wonder if some people actually watch the game. Taundry took a heavy knock early in the game and was covering wide on the right, is it any reason he was ineffectual? Early in the game, before he took his knock, he was linking up very well with the middle two and the front two. I think Smith and Lancashire have the prospect of becoming a decent partnership at the back as they get used to playing with each other; don't forget, they are both young and relatively inexperienced. Lancashire looks very comfortable on the ball for a centre back at our level - this is something McDonald could add to his game.

My read of the situation is that Hutchings wants Richards to be both midfield enforcer and aid to start our attacks. We lack that little touch of quality in the middle of the park, and have done for years.

As I've said elsewhere, the biggest disappointment of last night was the braindead 'supporters'. The loudest cheer of the night was when Lancashire went off. Yeah, good that - just what a 21 year old playing his sixth (?) game for the club needs and deserves. Ridiculous, and you all wonder why players turn around and flash the v. This was capped off by the second loudest noise of the night for Paul Marshall - yes, his corners were poor but the abuse he got clearly - as in, you could literally see his head go down straight away - was totally unwarranted and over-the-top, some of the stuff said was ridiculous for a young lad, again, playing at the start of his career. When he knocked a very good ball over the defence which Reid could have got to if he was a little shaper there was barely any acknowledgment for some impressive vision which betrayed the talent he clearly has. There is something there, and once he gets used to the pace outside of Premier League reserve sides, he'll be fine. Still, if he was from Walsall (or just chased the goalkeeper down all the time), doubtless he'd be exalted off as a hero, role model and great white hope.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:48 am

The fact is though Jorge that we were beaten comfortably at home by a league 2 side.
You can paper over the cracks all you like but it was poor.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:11 am

grigg and mcgivern both had to miss the game as they are not allowed to play competetively 4 days before an international game. frustrating as it is likely they both would have started or at least played a good part!!

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:14 am

Fair report Jorge but you are asking a left back to play a midfield come all role and he aint the man, this club has been crying out for decent central midfielders for five plus years and the team screams of that being missing.

For me upfront is strong, the back four is ok but we lack massively in the middle and that is where the runners are coming from and constantly putting us under pressure.

Pressue=goals we have all played enough to know eventually you will score

We depertaly need a Gavin Mahon type player who can put a foot in, control and bring others in

If Hutching can't see this then well......but enough said about that numpty cos he is pants!

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saddlerJP
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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:18 am

The fact is though Jorge that we were beaten comfortably at home by a league 2 side


AGAIN

P.S What's happened to the Deeney money???????????????????????????????????????????

Rich Evans
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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:18 am

It was a poor poor match played in front of a poor crowd.
Smith for the first goal looked to me like he thought about handling the ball cause he was flat footed on the line.
Of course the midfield looked comfortable on the ball, probably something to do with the fact they only ever went side to side or backwards.

And brains comments in the paper this week about not being worried about clean sheets says it all for me!

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:21 am

Jorge, the biggest cheer of the night wasnt for Lancashire going off, it was probably when we scored, or when Richards hit the post, or when we got a corner towards the end - but nothing like a bit of hyperbole to make your point, hey?

If you really think that Marshalls head went down after a bit of a groan following a bad corner then you're more naive than I thought - he's not a 12 year old girl, he's been in the game probably since he was 14 - he'll have got a rollocking for poor passes and poor performances from managers before now, he'll have heard groans from the terraces before now, and in fairness two of his corners in the second half were dire - they didnt even pass the first man - and Im sorry, but if we've got to the stage where we are employing PROFESSIONAL footballers who think they can knock in an awful corner and not hear any groans then where on earth is this club going?!

There was a sarcastic "waheey" when Hutchings finally made a substitution after 70 odd minutes - but that was aimed at Hutchings because of his total lack of ability or willingness to change things, which you might not appreciate having been away. This reaction is perfectly acceptable considering we were trailing and hadn't mustered an attempt on goal since the first half. I wonder if in your world football games are just places where you never hear a groan or a moan, cos of course, Walsall is the only club that has fans who are disappointed to lose to a team below them in the league for the nth time in 2 years. Maybe the players should have been given a standing ovation last night?

I have no faith in Lancashire and Smith as a pairing, this is why I've been saying for weeks that we need an old head in defence. If you watch Lancashire and Smith, they are constantly drifting miles apart - at some points there was 30 or 40 yards in between them and their marking is shocking.

Last night we were not aided either by having Lescott on the wrong side - his left foot is quite poor so he struggled, and having a very poor looking Westlake on the other getting destroyed by Davies and that chap who used to play for Luton.

Our other problem is in central midfield - has anyone ever seen Richards behind the ball? Granted, his distribution can be half decent at times, but a central midfield isn't only about what he does on the ball, it's what he does when the team hasn't got it thats also important, and Richards never ever gets behind the ball, he's always chasing play, he never harries or hassles, he get's turned by average league 2 sloggers, his heading is awful - the list of bad things about him goes on. Marshall on the other hand has got potential, he's definately not the finished article, but he will be one day.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:26 am

I agree that Lancashire and Smith always drift apart. Lancashire seems to rush into tackles, instead of backing off until the time is right to close his man down.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:45 am

I didnt know the result until this morning and im shocked and appalled that we are out at the first hurdle again, however we played really well against Plymouth and showed some positive signs against Brighton.

A poor performance in a mickey mouse competition shouldnt cloud judgement on our recent good performances in the league

................Im now off to search the cupboard for my tin hat

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:52 am

Jockey wrote:I didnt know the result until this morning and im shocked and appalled that we are out at the first hurdle again, however we played really well against Plymouth and showed some positive signs against Brighton.

A poor performance in a mickey mouse competition shouldnt cloud judgement on our recent good performances in the league

................Im now off to search the cupboard for my tin hat


Agreed. Let's stay positive, we've had a decent start (In my opinion) in the league and despite the Brighton loss we played well and could of been 2-3 goals up before that sending off. It 'ay all doom and gloom!

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:21 am

Decent first half, poor second half and even worse defending. We need to tighten up at the back soon. I think someone mentioned it's been 17 competitive games since our last clean sheet? That's truely shocking!

I thought Brain was poor. First goal I think he should have come out and caught the cross. I have no doubt that Ince would have done. Brain just doesn't command his area. I don't think he had much chance with the 2nd goal to be fair. As for the 'fantastic save' that lead to the miss of the season. It wasn't fantastic as he failed to clear the ball. Instead of punching it over the bar he put it straight up in the air! That's not good goalkeeping at any level.

When McDonald came on I thought the defence looked a lot more solid.

Reid looked dangerous most the night. Macken looked decent as well.

Special mention to Jamie Paterson who looked promising when he came on. He looked a bit shy at first, but grew in confidence and looked dangerous.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:36 am

Agree about paterson. Looked good on the ball, but like magivern needs to make the team aware of him. Plenty of time they'd both be on the flank in acres of space. By the time the ball would come across the opportunity would be missed.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:48 am

Wyrley_saddler wrote:Decent first half, poor second half and even worse defending. We need to tighten up at the back soon. I think someone mentioned it's been 17 competitive games since our last clean sheet? That's truely shocking!

I thought Brain was poor. First goal I think he should have come out and caught the cross.


Im not sure about that assessment of the first goal, the major mistakes were IMO:

- Letting their winger get in behind us with time to cross (it's bad enough letting someone get round the back, but normally you've got a man on top of him ready to stop the cross)

- When the cross came over Chesterfield had one player in the box, neither Lancashire nor Westlake got anywhere near him

- Brain couldnt have come to collect it because it was a looped cross that went over his head towards the back post

- When the player headed it towards goal Manny Smith was not proactive, I think he tried to let it go wide, but instead it hit the post and went in, he should have just booted it.

So all in all, I dont think the keeper was to blame, he was stranded by the fact a man got in behind and put in a cross over his head.

DanWalsallFC
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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:10 am

All in all we need an old head, experienced centre back.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:46 pm

Jorge14 wrote:Some blinkered views on here. I thought we were strong and comfortable in possession, too often our final ball was lacking but I'd imagine that would improve when Jones returns and offers a bit more balance to the side. Reid and Macken looked impressive, until they tired. Unfortunately, we made three stand-out errors in the game and two were punished with goals. Brain shouldn't be beaten at his near post, but he made a couple of decent saves elsewhere in the game. Smith shouldn't have been turned so easily.

I wonder if some people actually watch the game. Taundry took a heavy knock early in the game and was covering wide on the right, is it any reason he was ineffectual? Early in the game, before he took his knock, he was linking up very well with the middle two and the front two. I think Smith and Lancashire have the prospect of becoming a decent partnership at the back as they get used to playing with each other; don't forget, they are both young and relatively inexperienced. Lancashire looks very comfortable on the ball for a centre back at our level - this is something McDonald could add to his game.

My read of the situation is that Hutchings wants Richards to be both midfield enforcer and aid to start our attacks. We lack that little touch of quality in the middle of the park, and have done for years.

As I've said elsewhere, the biggest disappointment of last night was the braindead 'supporters'. The loudest cheer of the night was when Lancashire went off. Yeah, good that - just what a 21 year old playing his sixth (?) game for the club needs and deserves. Ridiculous, and you all wonder why players turn around and flash the v. This was capped off by the second loudest noise of the night for Paul Marshall - yes, his corners were poor but the abuse he got clearly - as in, you could literally see his head go down straight away - was totally unwarranted and over-the-top, some of the stuff said was ridiculous for a young lad, again, playing at the start of his career. When he knocked a very good ball over the defence which Reid could have got to if he was a little shaper there was barely any acknowledgment for some impressive vision which betrayed the talent he clearly has. There is something there, and once he gets used to the pace outside of Premier League reserve sides, he'll be fine. Still, if he was from Walsall (or just chased the goalkeeper down all the time), doubtless he'd be exalted off as a hero, role model and great white hope.

Exactly how I saw the game too, Jorge. I was starting to think I was the only one.

We weren't brilliant last night, but I thought the main absence was a bit of pace and a quality final ball. We rely too much on Gray (who was poor) & Jones (who was injured & didn't play).
Lancashire doesn't deserve a reception like he got las night. Any mistakes he made were no worse than both fullbacks being completely done for the goals or Smith maing In Roper's forward passing look good.
Criticism of Brain is wide of the mark too. I'm not sure many 'keepers would have saved the second goal, front post or not.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:06 pm

DanWalsallFC wrote:All in all we need an old head, experienced centre back.


And i agree, Thats the one place every team needs experiance in my opinion. If your going to have a young team, you tend to have an experienced leader in defence.

I dont see any of our defenders as "an old head on young shoulders" either.

That said the knee jerk reactions on here are ridiculous.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:23 pm

Personaly I would play Mcdonald alongside smith but i agree Lancashire has been getting some unfair stick. Hasn't done to much wrong since the start of the season and the fact that we have 3 good young centre backs at the club is one of the positives I've been able to bring from the first few weeks of the season.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:31 pm

Lancashire got stick last night!!! :shock:

Is this the same bloke that blocked three goal bound shots Plymouth had on Saturday??? Jesus ....Walsall fans are pathetic.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:37 pm

Jockey wrote:Lancashire got stick last night!!! :shock:

Is this the same bloke that blocked three goal bound shots Plymouth had on Saturday??? Jesus ....Walsall fans are pathetic.


You see this is how it starts!

I was sitting near the tunnel last night and the only "abuse" I heard was aimed towards Hutchings in a sarcastic manner! I didnt hear any booing of Lancashire or Brain - there was a boo at the final whistle, and sarcastic jeering when Hutching finally made his sub.

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Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:47 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
Jockey wrote:Lancashire got stick last night!!! :shock:

Is this the same bloke that blocked three goal bound shots Plymouth had on Saturday??? Jesus ....Walsall fans are pathetic.


You see this is how it starts!

I was sitting near the tunnel last night and the only "abuse" I heard was aimed towards Hutchings in a sarcastic manner! I didnt hear any booing of Lancashire or Brain - there was a boo at the final whistle, and sarcastic jeering when Hutching finally made his sub.

An ovation of applause and cheers greeted the announcement of his imminent substitution from the Floors2Go Lower, phil.
As a paying punter on nights like this it appears your choice of neighbours for your viewing pleasure is:
A) no one ( family stand)
B) the flaccid and comatose (txt 666 oap stand)
C) the chavtastic and inebriated (Floors2Goo Lower, ay it?)

As a visitor in C) I even found myself seeking solace in a momentary conversation with FBIG. Desperate times indeed. :(

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:42 pm

King Crimson wrote:I even found myself seeking solace in a momentary conversation with FBIG.


Have you no pride? There's desperation - and then there's desperation! :mrgreen:

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:15 pm

Pedagogue wrote:
King Crimson wrote:I even found myself seeking solace in a momentary conversation with FBIG.


Have you no pride? There's desperation - and then there's desperation! :mrgreen:


Worst of all, it looked like he enjoyed it.

Agree mostly with Jorge's view... Taundry got his arse wiped by their player - if he was that injured he'd have been taken off.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:50 pm

philthesaddler wrote:What a pee poor performance. Defensively shocking, poor upfront and in midfield.


Like the majority of performances under Hutchings .

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:59 pm

Win or lose, all I care is that the players wearing the shirt actually tried their best. I don't mind it if they try, and we can be as bad as we usually are as long as it looks like they're making an effort. There's no 'lazy so-andso' comments about anyone so I have to assume they did their best, but didn't win. Shame, but we tried. Didn't we?

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Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:57 pm

Cannot understand what some people's problems are with Lancashire I feel he'll turn into a decent player for us and did not deserve the stick he got last night, but that some Walsall fans for you never give a player a chance.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:27 am

Pedro wrote:Cannot understand what some people's problems are with Lancashire I feel he'll turn into a decent player for us and did not deserve the stick he got last night, but that some Walsall fans for you never give a player a chance.


I agree. Personally, for me the damage was done down the right - Taundry and Westlake simply couldn't contain them.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:23 am

King Crimson wrote:
Pedro wrote:Cannot understand what some people's problems are with Lancashire. I feel he'll turn into a decent player for us and did not deserve the stick he got last night, but that's some Walsall fans for you - never give a player a chance.


I agree. Personally, for me the damage was done down the right - Taundry and Westlake simply couldn't contain them.


I also agree. Lancashire's positional play sometimes goes astray but I thought he had a decent game. He is a "footballing" centre-back who likes to play the ball out of defence instead of the "win it and launch it" style, so beloved of many at this level.

Some of the criticism aimed at Westlake is also unjustified. He was frequently left exposed by lack of support in front of him, on our right. Chesterfield's second goal was down to Taundry and Smith (not Westlake) being "skinned" by Morgan(?) and then Brain being beaten at his near post.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:36 am

It was the lowest home crowd for a competitive match since the 1780 v. West Brom, Football League (North) in April 1945.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:30 pm

Percie wrote:Brain can take a lot of blame for our loss tonight.

You watch that first Chesterfield goal again, their player got his header off from what? 6 yards out? Why the hell was he able to do that when you have a 6'4 bloke in goal that can use his hands? crud keeping.

As a goalkeeper you should not be getting beat at your near post, its basic school boy stuff. Yet Brain was beat AGAIN at his near post for the second goal.

This keeper conceded just over 80 goals for Maccelsfield last season, what did the management team see in him to sign him? Oh yeah, thats right, hes cheap.....

Get Bevan in, Brain is not good enough!

Brain was not at fault for either goal. He is not 6'4", but even if he was 7'4" he could not have reached the cross that came over before the first goal. As for the second goal, he was beaten at the near post by a rocket shot from about 10 yards that no keeper could have saved. The cause of that goal was Westlake losing a boot just when he needed to close down the attacker. With only one boot he could not stop him getting a free shot past Brain.

Where do you get the 80 goals from? According to Soccerbase Brain conceded 58 goals last season at Macclesfield and kept 11 clean sheets.

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Re: Chesterfield (H) JP Trophy Tuesday 31/8/10

Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:44 pm

Has anyone missed the most obvious clue?

He was playing for Macclesfield, surely that counts for at least 30 of the goals...

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