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Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Reports and reaction from the 2010-11 season as Walsall finished 20th in League 1
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King Crimson
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Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:04 pm

latviancheese wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Cannock wrote:The most pleasing aspect of today was scoring two goals against the man monsters Plymouth employed at the back. They made proverbial brick houses look lightweight and we achieved it playing football - NOT hoofball. A lesson learned....

Spot on. Get the ball down and PLAY, lads! When you do, we look half decent.


And even when we played the long ball, they were down the line in behind the defence, instead of the useless hopeful crud.

Yep. Sick and tired of seeing the ball end up at the feet of our centre halves or full backs (normally because we've been chased down with it) and we go from possession to 50/50 long balls down the middle that we rarely win. As you say, at least if you aim for the channels you have a chance.

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Duke
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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:18 pm

very pleased with the result , what pleases me more is to read that so many fans are excited by the performance , my lad came home thrilled .

onwards and upwards

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:36 pm

Can't say much more than has been said previous but one thing that has been said that i want to re-iterate, what a performance by Matt Richards: superb and must have been close for MOTM

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:43 pm

A lot of the criticism in the first couple of games was about how weak we were in central midfield, and that Taundry and Richards were too weak as a pair. Today, the pair of them proved that was bollocks, they were both brilliant. Marshall slotted in equally well after Jones injury and Taundry went out wide. Richards passing was fitting of the league above and made one top class tackle in the first half just as the Plymouth player was about to pull the trigger.

I felt Lancashire was at fault for the goal, as he wasn't tight enough on the man who scored. However, he did make amends making three cracking blocks in the second half.

Reid looked like he'd mis hit the shot for the goal, I think if he'd struck it cleanly he'd probably have missed.

Weakest player was probably Lescott, although he was by no means poor.

Really pleased with the performance, and it was good that it was recognised by the fans, who cheered the team off at half time even though we were behind. Can't remember the last time that happened.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:52 pm

Well done the lads. :D

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:42 am

priestley_saddler wrote:A lot of the criticism in the first couple of games was about how weak we were in central midfield, and that Taundry and Richards were too weak as a pair. Today, the pair of them proved that was betties, they were both brilliant. Marshall slotted in equally well after Jones injury and Taundry went out wide. Richards passing was fitting of the league above and made one top class tackle in the first half just as the Plymouth player was about to pull the trigger.


Sorry, can't agree. Before Marshall came on, Taundry was totally and utterly hopeless. He gained possession of the ball on about four occasions in the half and duly squandered it cheaply every single time - passes that were poor, and being caught in possession twice. It would have been even worse if the referee hadn't blown twice for two 'nothing' challenges on him that got him out of jail when he had been dispossessed again. He redeemed himself in the second half to some extent with a great block and some good work when out on the right thanks to Marshall's introduction. But as I posted at half time, we played the first half with nine men: Nicholls and Taundry did absolutely nothing of merit.

So, I would argue that the criticism of our central midfield pairing hasn't been proved wrong in the slightest. The issue was rectified by putting in a third man. Hardly a ringing endorsement, is it? By contrast, Richards was outstanding all game - whether as part of a two or a three in the middle. Why? Because as I keep constantly banging on about, he has an excellent range of passes that he can execute with precision, his movement and reading of the game means he makes himself available to receive the ball and thus we retain possession, and he has the awareness to play other players in.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:20 am

King Crimson wrote:
priestley_saddler wrote:A lot of the criticism in the first couple of games was about how weak we were in central midfield, and that Taundry and Richards were too weak as a pair. Today, the pair of them proved that was betties, they were both brilliant. Marshall slotted in equally well after Jones injury and Taundry went out wide. Richards passing was fitting of the league above and made one top class tackle in the first half just as the Plymouth player was about to pull the trigger.


Sorry, can't agree. Before Marshall came on, Taundry was totally and utterly hopeless. He gained possession of the ball on about four occasions in the half and duly squandered it cheaply every single time - passes that were poor, and being caught in possession twice. It would have been even worse if the referee hadn't blown twice for two 'nothing' challenges on him that got him out of jail when he had been dispossessed again. He redeemed himself in the second half to some extent with a great block and some good work when out on the right thanks to Marshall's introduction. But as I posted at half time, we played the first half with nine men: Nicholls and Taundry did absolutely nothing of merit.

So, I would argue that the criticism of our central midfield pairing hasn't been proved wrong in the slightest. The issue was rectified by putting in a third man. Hardly a ringing endorsement, is it? By contrast, Richards was outstanding all game - whether as part of a two or a three in the middle. Why? Because as I keep constantly banging on about, he has an excellent range of passes that he can execute with precision, his movement and reading of the game means he makes himself available to receive the ball and thus we retain possession, and he has the awareness to play other players in.


That summing KC is totally, utterly and exactly my opinion and view :D

What am I thinking about?

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:45 am

Richards - outstanding. reminiscent of a vintage Samways performance in the way he was always available for the pass and played simple, accurate passes. Several times he changed the direction of the play superbly and opened up huge amounts of space for our wingers.

Reid - excellent performance, loves the ball to his feet, makes good runs. Unlike someone above though, I would question whether he "chased and harried", but I'm not bothered by that when the quality going forward is there.

Jones and Gray - caused all sorts of problems for the opposition, hopefully Jones isn't too badly injured.

Lancashire - is he to become the next "boo boy"? He got turned for the goal, but I thought he had an excellent game generally. Until the last 15 minutes (when he was tiring) he won everything in the air, he made a superb goalline clearance and, most importantly of all, a lot of possession goes through him because he's comfortable on the ball. All those enjoying how much football we played, and yet saying McDonald should be in the team, THINK AGAIN! We'd have two "hoofers" at centre-back then and would have to resort to long balls.

Lescott - or is he the next boo boy? He was solid, did nothing wrong, got forward at times but stuck to his defensive duties as well. Suspect that was a decent player he had against him, and yet he kept him quiet. The danger, and the goal, came from the other flank, where McGivern wasn't close enough to stop the cross on several occasions.

Nicholls and Taundry - as KC says, they were passengers for much of the game. I can't be over the top in criticism because I genuinely feel they are both giving 100%. Neither, however, appears to have the footballing brain necessary for this level. Taundry was better out right because he gets a bit more time on the ball. I've said it before - I can see why he was a right-back through the youth team. Not a central midfielder at all.

A lot of scouts sitting in the stand by us - Plymouth players or perhaps Smith? I'd have said "solid, but prone to lapses, good offensively in the air, needs to learn from an experienced partner at centre-half...worth a bid for a lower championship club"

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:58 am

Great performance all round.
What concerns me is that now we have a replacement albeit on loan for Deeney who is better in all departments by the way.
Will the 500k be quietly forgotten and dissapear into the early morning mists of the Trudos mountains.

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Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:58 am

Not much I'd argue with there, Shrops.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:35 am

My impressions:

Brain is a strange goalkeeper. Supremely confident when the ball is near the edge of the penalty area, but confused and nervous if a ball is dropping on the six yard line.

Lescott - OK.

Lancashire - why is he preferred to McDonald?

McGivern - OK, but distribution a bit erratic.

Gray - fine.

Taundry - tries hard, but not having a great spell in midfield.

Richards - as usual another good performance.

Jones - fine, hope he is not out for long.

Nicholls - does not contribute anything as a striker apart from chase lost causes.

Reid - a touch of class.

Having seen the highlights their keeper should easily have saved Reid's goal, and the sending off was extremely harsh. Firstly the contact made was accidental as the two players chased the ball, and there was no way that Nicholls would have reached the ball even if no contact had been made.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:39 am

Pleased to read a positive view of Lancashire - we haven't had a centre-back who is comfortable with the ball at his feet since Dann left.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:23 am

NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD wrote:Great performance all round.
What concerns me is that now we have a replacement albeit on loan for Deeney who is better in all departments by the way.
Will the 500k be quietly forgotten and dissapear into the early morning mists of the Trudos mountains.


We won't for sure, get chapter and verse about what every penny was spent on. However, some marks for openness about the fee itself. The financial and business side of this club exists for one job - to provide the resources to put out the best side we can on the pitch. If it does that, most of us will be happy. Ergo, if the team does well, concerns over the finances of the club will dissipate. We don't know how much it has cost us to sign and pay the salaries of the two new players. Deeney was being paid circa £100k pa, so that will have freed some space in the wage budget, as will other summer departures, but even so our two new acquisitions will not be poorly paid - one is, after all, ex-Championship, and the other is on the books of a Premiership side. That sort of class will be costing us.

So its the old story - we won't have shelled out big money on signing fees (we're frankly too canny to do that, and always have been), but the investment will be going in on wages. Right now, that looks to be paying dividends - we've just beaten two decent clubs at this level. So credit where it is due - whatever the misgivings, a team has now been built which looks capable at this level. Lets see.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:28 am

Did Phil go yesterday, if so he has been quiet on Matt Richards :mrgreen:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:34 am

Bernie wrote:My impressions:

Brain is a strange goalkeeper. Supremely confident when the ball is near the edge of the penalty area, but confused and nervous if a ball is dropping on the six yard line.

Lescott - OK.

Lancashire - why is he preferred to McDonald?

McGivern - OK, but distribution a bit erratic.

Gray - fine.

Taundry - tries hard, but not having a great spell in midfield.

Richards - as usual another good performance.

Jones - fine, hope he is not out for long.

Nicholls - does not contribute anything as a striker apart from chase lost causes.

Reid - a touch of class.

Having seen the highlights their keeper should easily have saved Reid's goal, and the sending off was extremely harsh. Firstly the contact made was accidental as the two players chased the ball, and there was no way that Nicholls would have reached the ball even if no contact had been made.


It was not harsh it was entirely correct, he knew what he was doing. He pulled back Nicholls, and tried to do it on the sly. They had been getting away with niggly crap like holding and backing in all afternoon. Finally the Ref didnt let them get away with it. Whether he would have reached the ball is irrelevant.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:43 am

Spot on Shropshire - that is as I saw the game as well. Great to see the comments regarding Richards, I just get the feeling that as we bring better quality players into the team we will start to see the best of Richards, some of his passing yesterday was of a top level and he is the one player with the ability to pick out the correct pass most of the time.

There are some definite parts of Lancashire's game that remind me of Scott Dann, always looking to receive the ball and comfortable in possession, not as good in the air as Dann, however, can see why he currently has the shirt and hopefully will only get better with experience. Having Lancashire as one of the centre halves will help to allow us to play better football from the back, no criticism of the other two but that is not the strongest part of their game.

Not going to comment on Taundry and Nicholls as much has been said already, lets hope they both are able to contribute more in the coming weeks.

In summary, came away from the game feeling much more positive, and with the introduction of one new key midfield player we could have a squad capable of giving us a successful season.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:47 am

latviancheese wrote:It was not harsh it was entirely correct, he knew what he was doing. He pulled back Nicholls, and tried to do it on the sly. They had been getting away with niggly crud like holding and backing in all afternoon. Finally the Ref didnt let them get away with it.
Did you see the highlights? Arnason was looking at the high ball coming from his right and would have not been able to see Nicholls running behind his back until Nicholls ran right in front of him and brushed against him. There was no way that Arnason could avoid him. Since Nicholls could see Arnason and ran into him, if there was a foul it was committed by Nicholls.

latviancheese wrote: Whether he would have reached the ball is irrelevant.
Not true. Unless Nicholls had a clear goal scoring opportunity then it was not a sending off. Since the ball was clearly always going to be the goalkeeper's then even if Nicholls was fouled it was not a sending off.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:12 pm

latviancheese wrote:Did Phil go yesterday, if so he has been quiet on Matt Richards :mrgreen:


I spoke to Phil at half time, when he said what a good game Richards was having!

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:14 pm

Bernie wrote:
latviancheese wrote:It was not harsh it was entirely correct, he knew what he was doing. He pulled back Nicholls, and tried to do it on the sly. They had been getting away with niggly crud like holding and backing in all afternoon. Finally the Ref didnt let them get away with it.
Did you see the highlights? Arnason was looking at the high ball coming from his right and would have not been able to see Nicholls running behind his back until Nicholls ran right in front of him and brushed against him. There was no way that Arnason could avoid him. Since Nicholls could see Arnason and ran into him, if there was a foul it was committed by Nicholls.

latviancheese wrote: Whether he would have reached the ball is irrelevant.
Not true. Unless Nicholls had a clear goal scoring opportunity then it was not a sending off. Since the ball was clearly always going to be the goalkeeper's then even if Nicholls was fouled it was not a sending off.


Yes i did, and i also saw it at the time. And both times it was a sending off.

Brushed up against? He clearly grabbed him when he realised Nicholls was in front of him!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Episode_3/

48 minutes 11 seconds in.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:31 pm

latviancheese wrote:
Bernie wrote:
latviancheese wrote:It was not harsh it was entirely correct, he knew what he was doing. He pulled back Nicholls, and tried to do it on the sly. They had been getting away with niggly crud like holding and backing in all afternoon. Finally the Ref didnt let them get away with it.
Did you see the highlights? Arnason was looking at the high ball coming from his right and would have not been able to see Nicholls running behind his back until Nicholls ran right in front of him and brushed against him. There was no way that Arnason could avoid him. Since Nicholls could see Arnason and ran into him, if there was a foul it was committed by Nicholls.

latviancheese wrote: Whether he would have reached the ball is irrelevant.
Not true. Unless Nicholls had a clear goal scoring opportunity then it was not a sending off. Since the ball was clearly always going to be the goalkeeper's the
n even if Nicholls was fouled it was not a sending
off.




Yes i did, and i also saw it at the time. And both times it was a sending off.

Brushed up against? He clearly grabbed him when he realised Nicholls was in front of him!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Episode_3/

48 minutes 11 seconds in.

Dont worry mate i agree with you and so did the rest of the floors to go, he definatly pulled him back, it was a definate sending off, the camera anle doesnt show it, you had to be sitting in the floors to go to see it.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:34 pm

Bernie wrote:Nicholls - does not contribute anything as a striker apart from chase lost causes.

I note from the highlights that it was he that seized on the Plymouth players mistake to start the move for the 2nd goal. That must have been one of those lost causes that you mention.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:45 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:I note from the highlights that it was he that seized on the Plymouth players mistake to start the move for the 2nd goal. That must have been one of those lost causes that you mention.
If you look again you will see that in fact Nicholls latched on the mistake well but then made a poor break-leg pass to Gray which Gray could not take, but fortunately the defender intercepting put the ball into the path of Reid. So if making an incomplete pass cut out by the opposition counts as starting an attack then credit to Nicholls.

Anyone watching Nicholls over the whole 90 minutes will see that the number of positive contributions he makes as a striker is minimal. But why are we arguing about this? Surely we all have seen Nicholls enough over the last five years during one hundred and thirty one appearances to know his limitations. He has pace and some footballing ability so he could do well at a lower level, and every now and then he does kick the ball in the right direction. We could go to the conference and pick out dozens of forwards who could do the same; they are semi-professional footballers so they would sometimes win the ball and complete a pass - but that does not mean they are good enough to be worth a place at this level.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:45 pm

not that it means a lot but Lescott made the league 1 team of the week on the NOTW

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:21 pm

Duke wrote:not that it means a lot but Lescott made the league 1 team of the week on the NOTW

I hadn't noticed that, and he's the only one of our players in there.

However, there player ratings give 6 to Brain and Nicholls, 8 to Gray, and 7 to everyone else.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:10 am

Really pleased when I checked the result on Sat but logging onto UTS this morning and reading all the reports has made my day. Great to hear not only are we winning but we're doing it playing good positive football. Long may it continue!

UTS!!

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:11 am

Just got round to commenting on this game.

Thought we played well and deserved the win over all.

Im still very worried about our defence though, we concede every single game, and that needs to be stopped.

I thought Richards had probably his best game in a Walsall shirt, but those kind of performances are far from the norm yet, hence Neil using the phrase "unrecognisably excellent" in the match report.

Thought Reid was excellent, and Nicholls poor again.

Another very poor attendance, with a large following from Plymouth to have the attendance below 4,000 was frankly embarassing.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:03 pm

philthesaddler wrote:Another very poor attendance, with a large following from Plymouth to have the attendance below 4,000 was frankly embarassing.


Take away the Plymouth fans and there was almost less than 3k Saddlers.
Don't worry though. We're a well run club! :mrgreen:

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:55 pm

philthesaddler wrote:Just got round to commenting on this game.

Thought we played well and deserved the win over all.

Im still very worried about our defence though, we concede every single game, and that needs to be stopped.

I thought Richards had probably his best game in a Walsall shirt, but those kind of performances are far from the norm yet, hence Neil using the phrase "unrecognisably excellent" in the match report.

Thought Reid was excellent, and Nicholls poor again.

Another very poor attendance, with a large following from Plymouth to have the attendance below 4,000 was frankly embarassing.


I think that's down to the central midfield as well, though, to a certain extent, in that they are not giving the defence enough cover. That's the one are that still neds to be strengthened, for me.

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:01 pm

moanin old git wrote:Just a thought from someone who can't get to many home matches any more, I noticed from my position in Mid F2G that compared to recent seasons, the 'gaps' in our ground apear to be most prominent in ... the OAP stand.

Perhaps our core supporters are simply dying off? Would be an interesting study to do an average age comparison between now and 5, 10, 20 years ago. It has to be hard to attract youngsters when you're (historically) one of the least successful clubs in the country!

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Re: Plymouth Argyle (H) League 1 Saturday 21/8/10.

Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:19 pm

Pleased to hear positive views of the game. The goals were certainly very well taken and from what I've seen & heard, we have something resembling a cutting edge for the first time in a while.

With regards to the point made about the goals we keep conceding, all I'll say is that you defend and attack as a team. We still give teams too much of the ball in our half, which makes it easier for them to create chances. That's as much to do with the likes of Nicholls and Gray as it is Lancashire and Lescott, for example.

The comments on Richards are interesting. Now he has a handful of good players playing alongside him, he'll shine. The ability and willingness has always been there, despite what some people persist in saying. I'm pleased that Marshall came on and grabbed himself a goal, as I think he's probably a bit frustrated sitting on the bench, watching Taundry give the ball away too easily a lot of the time.

Fingers crossed, we'll be able to build on this with a return from Brighton. Looking at the fixtures, now really is the time to get as many points on the board as possible.

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