Tranmere Rovers (H) Carling Cup Ist Round Tuesday 10/8/10.

[fatboyslim]

how did grigg and marshall do when they came on? nice to see some subs made prior to the last 2 minutes!!

[boringteacher]

Not quite sure where to start: the goodish bits: centre backs were generally Ok, thought that Lescott had a reasonable game. Grigg showed a football brain when he finally appeared. Westlake generally sound defensively, though his passing was poor.

The rest: Brain looked the mediocre div 4 keeper he is, Taundry (especially) and Richards were pathetic, neither winger managed to get a good cross in, despite having enough possession to have given some service to our mediocre "strikers".

Relegation team, needs 3 decent players to reach lower mid-table. I think I'm with the people who think that Hutchings would waste the cash if he actually gets it. Sack him now, but what mong would actually take the job on with Boner as owner?

[Pedagogue]

My first match of the season and what do I see - a dreadful game between two awful sides. If the Saddlers and Tranmere continue in this vein, put your money on both of them for relegation!

First impressions:-
Brain - how on earth people can say that he is better than Gilmartin is beyond me. Apart from one super save in stoppage time, he was poor.
Westlake - rarely tested, generally ok but his distribution is Weston-esque
Smith - generally good
Lancashire - the best of a poor bunch, imo.
Lescott - never tested but uncomfortable on his left foot.
Jones - no service and did nothing when he did get the ball
Taundry - worked hard but totally ineffective
Richards - see Taundry
Gray - see Jones
Nicholls - some sympathy as the quality of service was non-existent but he wasted our only clear-cut chance
Byfield - as Nicholls but he has lost his pace.
Marshall (on for Taundry) - never really got in the game
Grigg (on for Nicholls) - showed promise and should stay in side
McDonald (on for Westlake, although he played up front) - stoppage time desperate gamble by Chris Clueless.

The question remains - would you trust Hutchings to spend the money wisely? Does he have YOUR confidence?

[saddlerJP]

Worst walsall squad I have ever seen going into a season. 4-5 players needed or we'll go down.

use that money to pay Hutch off, only gonna be a few more games til the crowd turn on him big style.

[Goose277]

how did grigg and marshall do when they came on? nice to see some subs made prior to the last 2 minutes!!

I thought grigg looked ok to be fair. Showed a good first touch and was always aware of players around him, hopefully we'll see more of him but I wouldn't count on it.

Not really sure about marshall but I wasn't really concentrating that much to be honest.

[Exile]

Not really sure about marshall but I wasn't really concentrating that much to be honest.

Too busy necking in the back row? :wink:

[tinned]

Would I trust Hutchings with whatever money is made available? Not an effing chance! I wouldn't trust him with a tenner to buy a round at the boozer, he's probably come back with a cup of tea and a chocolate milkshake.

[priestley_saddler]

I suspect I may be in the minority here, but I thought we were the better side tonight. If Saturday's performance was 3/10, this was nearer a 6. Not great obviously, but an improvement, and better than Tranmere who were about a 4.

We started well and appeared more up for the game than they did. We had more of the posession but the obvious flaw was that we lacked any real penetration. The defence looks reasonably sound from open play (but hopeless at set pieces, more on that in a minute). We also seemed to have taken on board some of the failings from Saturday. The ball was moved around a bit quicker, and Jones and Gray saw much more of the ball than they did against the Dons. The problem, again, was that there wasn't really anyone up front for them to play in.

Nicholls proved once and for all tonight that he is not the man to replace Deeney. He may have replaced him on the team sheet but he certainly hasn't replaced him in the team. Bout 5 minutes after half time Byfield (who was the best player on the pitch by a mile) somehow won the ball from a Tranmere free kick and was through on goal. Just as he got to a shooting position two Tranny defenders came to close him down and he unselfishly played in Nicholls 8 yards out who couldn't miss.......he missed.

The thing is, from the miss to when he went off was probably his best spell of the game. He played a few passes and even won a couple of headers. The worry is that it shouldn't take a shocking miss like that to make him play. It wasn't our only chance either. Byfield should have done better when he snatched at one shortly after, Taundry put a well worked free kick over, Marshall had a tame long range effort saved. There was also a spell in the first half where the ball was bouncing around on the Tranmere box but would just wouldn't drop right for anyone to smack it.

A word on Hutchings. I actually think he got the substitutions correct tonight. With half an hour to go he brought off our worse two players on the night (quite why the substitution of Taundry was booed I have no idea, unless I misread and Taundry was being booed himself for being pap). Throwing McDonald on up front at the end was also not the worst thing he'd ever done, as was swapping Gray and Jones over to the other side. Ok, it didn't work but it did give us different options at least.

The two main problems though as I touched on earlier are the lack of quality up front, and our defending at set pieces. We actually haven't conceeded many chances from open play in the opening couple of games. But Saturday's winner came from a corner, their winner tonight was from a set play and they should have had a second just after Nicholls miss, when their player was in at least 8 yards of space and somehow headed over. There are also warning signs around Jonny Brain, who shows signs of not being able to cut it. Here's hoping he improves.

If no striker comes in before Saturday, and assuming he plays the same team (with the exception of McGivern coming back in for Westlake), I'd be tempted to swap Nicholls and Jones over. The problem we have is one of our strikers has to come back to look for the ball and link the play with the lead striker. At the minute it is Byfield feeding Nicholls. If Nicholls went wide right (which is looking more and more his better position) then Jones could drop deeper and link the play for Byfield. Might give us a different option.

So in summary, again the weaknesses are there for all to sea but nothing a couple of players can't put right. It wasn't THAT bad and I'm disappointed not to have won tonight.

[philthesaddler]

I said it then and i'll say it now... We are at least an experienced defender and three further quality additions from being able to compete this season. When I say compete, I mean to compete for points in the bottom half of the table.

We are so weak!

You're just copying what I said on fb! :D

[yoda]

People asking would you trust Hutch with the money? Maybe, maybe not. We know Byfield, Jones and Grey are not bad players, all brought in by Hutch. Its too early to judge the rest.

It seems to me the biggest issue is tactical.

[Sadders]

That was absolutely pathetic. Tranmere were absolute garbage, which is the most frightening thing. 3 or 4 chances? They had the goal, which was terrible marking by the centre backs and an absolute sitter of a header from a corner, bar that they struggled to pass a ball fo feet. Back to us, we were pathetic. Lumping it to two small strikers is just 'brainless'. The signings we have made look to have done nothing but make the side worse, particularly at the back. Lancashire's dodgy, fell over his feet twice tonight and his marking, particularly from set peicse is terrible, cant believe McDonald doesn't play. If someone is telling me Lescott, McGivern and Lancashire are better than Weston, Hughes and Vincent they need there eyes followed by brain testing. Coming onto Brain, he flapped for the goal tonight and dropped a couple of simple catches, he has a mistake in him.

Richards and Taundry have started the season very poorly, the latter going off after an hour tonight. Gray? who? Did nothing at vale in pre-season, even less saturday and he barely touched the ball tonight, if we're pinning our hopes on him on current form then we're heading for big trouble. Nicholls missed a sitter tonight and is better on the wing from what i've seen, he cant hold the ball up and style of play isn't really to break well.

Anyway onto some, performances.

Brain - Flapped at alot, especially at crosses and the goal.
Westlake - Solid but doesn't get forward at all.
Lancashire - Poor on the ball and his marking is and was terrible. Not as good as McDonald.
Smith - Decent again, becoming one of our best performers.
Lescott - Played okay, but didn't get forward enough and his size is a problem.
Gray - Anoymous, looks un-fit and un-interested. Barely touched the ball whole game
Taundry - Works hard but his passing was yet again terrible again, gave the ball away far too much.
Richards - Awful again, paceless and gave the ball away far too much. Needs a kick up the rear.
Jones - Probably the best player on the night, worked hard, put a few crosses in and have a decent chance in the second half.
Byfield - Did okay, broke away for the Nicholls chance cleverely, but he tends to do too much and his finishing is pretty poor. Attitude isn't great for a captain.
Nicholls - Missed our best chance very poorly, won a few more headers tonight, but looks more effective on the wing. Not a striker and certainly not in our tactics.

SUBS
Marshall - Didn't do much when he came on, other than a poor shot when we'd buily a reasonable attack.
McDonald - Didn't have chance to come on, but seeing McDonald playing upfront was funny.
Grigg - Did some decent things when he came on and it was a promising cameo for future reference.


It says alot when you have only a centre half to bring on and play upfront in the latter stages of a game isn't it. I'm going to stick by what i've been tihnking for a few weeks. Last season was a success and this season is going to underline that job. Plenty of teams that finished lower last season have strengthened, teams are alot stronger and have signed some big names for the size of their club. Unless we get a solid centre back, an attacking central midfielder and a big strong battering ram that'l score a few upfront i see a relegation fight ahead.

[Rich Evans]

My first match of the season and what do I see - a dreadful game between two awful sides. If the Saddlers and Tranmere continue in this vein, put your money on both of them for relegation!

First impressions:-
Brain - how on earth people can say that he is better than Gilmartin is beyond me. Apart from one super save in stoppage time, he was poor.
Westlake - rarely tested, generally ok but his distribution is Weston-esque
Smith - generally good
Lancashire - the best of a poor bunch, imo.
Lescott - never tested but uncomfortable on his left foot.
Jones - no service and did nothing when he did get the ball
Taundry - worked hard but totally ineffective
Richards - see Taundry
Gray - see Jones
Nicholls - some sympathy as the quality of service was non-existent but he wasted our only clear-cut chance
Byfield - as Nicholls but he has lost his pace.
Marshall (on for Taundry) - never really got in the game
Grigg (on for Nicholls) - showed promise and should stay in side
McDonald (on for Westlake, although he played up front) - stoppage time desperate gamble by Chris Clueless.

The question remains - would you trust Hutchings to spend the money wisely? Does he have YOUR confidence?

I'd agree with that Ped as I said Richards looked ok first half. The nicholls haters will be sharpening the knives when they see his only chance on the replays. Could Byfield have released it a moment earlier?
I have no idea what Brain was doing for the goal. All I know he was in no mans land. He seemed to dither. He also hot himself in a muddle under pressure in the second half.

[philthesaddler]

I'd agree with that Ped as I said Richards looked ok first half. The nicholls haters will be sharpening the knives when they see his only chance on the replays. Could Byfield have released it a moment earlier?
I have no idea what Brain was doing for the goal. All I know he was in no mans land. He seemed to dither. He also hot himself in a muddle under pressure in the second half.

Oh come on that is ridiculous! That was a sitter for Nicholls that any striker craves, and there you go criticising Byfield who did the right thing.

[Exile]

A candidate for rose-tinted glasses post of the year

:D

[worzel999]

My opinion on the shower tonight / Saturday:

Brain - Like the way he sweeps up behind the defence, but he isn't brave, which contributed to the goal, granted he was left very exposed.
Westlake - Tidy, tried to get forward OK.
Smith - Good, nice run in the second half.
Lancashire - Looks useful, steady and unspectacular, like a good centre back should be.
Lescott - Should not be on the left.
Jones - Improved when swapped to the left. He is a year older, are we going to get lasyt year's vintage? He needs to get more involved.
Taundry - AWOL.
Richards - Not brilliant but he does want the ball and keeps going.
Gray - Not interested at the moment. Missing the bulk of pre season is showing.
Nicholls - Should have scored,not taking his chance, granted service he has is shocking.
Byfield - Running the channels well, but he isn't going to score a hatful of goals. Should have hit the target in the second half.
Marshall (on for Taundry) - OK but not the chance to dictate,
Grigg (on for Nicholls) - Promising run out, linked up play well and got up first after the class with the giant centre back. Fair play.
McDonald (on for Westlake) - Last throw of the dice, too late.

On the two showings we. are in for a long season. They were shocking last year and have turned us over. We must improve fast. This is Hutch's squad, rebuilt twice, is it better than when he joined? Definately not.

We can't carry 4 players in midfield week in week out. We haven't got enough football from pre season and messing with the formation to 4-3-3 hasn't helped the preparation.

No fire in our bellies, team and manager. No leader showing, team and manager again.

A win Saturday, or Jeff can use some of the £500K to pay him off.

[priestley_saddler]

A candidate for rose-tinted glasses post of the year

:D

I was expecting that sort of response, but not from a bloody stay away :wink:

[DanWalsallFC]

If the Saddlers and Tranmere continue in this vein, put your money on both of them for relegation!

I do remember this being said when we drew 0-0 with Gillingham at home.. :roll:

[Exile]

If the Saddlers and Tranmere continue in this vein, put your money on both of them for relegation!

I do remember this being said when we drew 0-0 with Gillingham at home.. :roll:

...and we shouldn't be able to say the same things each time:

So much for early season optimism. We've gone from needing a creative midfielder/striker who can put it away to needing creativity, passion, belief and some basic ball skill.

It's deja vu all over again!

[fensaddler]

I suspect I may be in the minority here, but I thought we were the better side tonight. If Saturday's performance was 3/10, this was nearer a 6. Not great obviously, but an improvement, and better than Tranmere who were about a 4.

We started well and appeared more up for the game than they did. We had more of the posession but the obvious flaw was that we lacked any real penetration. The defence looks reasonably sound from open play (but hopeless at set pieces, more on that in a minute). We also seemed to have taken on board some of the failings from Saturday. The ball was moved around a bit quicker, and Jones and Gray saw much more of the ball than they did against the Dons. The problem, again, was that there wasn't really anyone up front for them to play in.

Nicholls proved once and for all tonight that he is not the man to replace Deeney. He may have replaced him on the team sheet but he certainly hasn't replaced him in the team. Bout 5 minutes after half time Byfield (who was the best player on the pitch by a mile) somehow won the ball from a Tranmere free kick and was through on goal. Just as he got to a shooting position two Tranny defenders came to close him down and he unselfishly played in Nicholls 8 yards out who couldn't miss.......he missed.

The thing is, from the miss to when he went off was probably his best spell of the game. He played a few passes and even won a couple of headers. The worry is that it shouldn't take a shocking miss like that to make him play. It wasn't our only chance either. Byfield should have done better when he snatched at one shortly after, Taundry put a well worked free kick over, Marshall had a tame long range effort saved. There was also a spell in the first half where the ball was bouncing around on the Tranmere box but would just wouldn't drop right for anyone to smack it.

A word on Hutchings. I actually think he got the substitutions correct tonight. With half an hour to go he brought off our worse two players on the night (quite why the substitution of Taundry was booed I have no idea, unless I misread and Taundry was being booed himself for being pap). Throwing McDonald on up front at the end was also not the worst thing he'd ever done, as was swapping Gray and Jones over to the other side. Ok, it didn't work but it did give us different options at least.

The two main problems though as I touched on earlier are the lack of quality up front, and our defending at set pieces. We actually haven't conceeded many chances from open play in the opening couple of games. But Saturday's winner came from a corner, their winner tonight was from a set play and they should have had a second just after Nicholls miss, when their player was in at least 8 yards of space and somehow headed over. There are also warning signs around Jonny Brain, who shows signs of not being able to cut it. Here's hoping he improves.

If no striker comes in before Saturday, and assuming he plays the same team (with the exception of McGivern coming back in for Westlake), I'd be tempted to swap Nicholls and Jones over. The problem we have is one of our strikers has to come back to look for the ball and link the play with the lead striker. At the minute it is Byfield feeding Nicholls. If Nicholls went wide right (which is looking more and more his better position) then Jones could drop deeper and link the play for Byfield. Might give us a different option.

So in summary, again the weaknesses are there for all to sea but nothing a couple of players can't put right. It wasn't THAT bad and I'm disappointed not to have won tonight.

Well that wasn't pretty, but actually I read the game much the same. We weren't dire (but neither were we much good), we had a lot of possession, we did get the ball out wide on occasions, and we botched a set piece to go one down, whilst failing to convert a lot of half-useful possession. Central midfield is woeful - Richards lacks pace and Taundry can't find his own players to save his life. I've never been convinced of Nicholls as a striker, and my view was further confirmed tonight - Grigg was far better. Brain shouts a lot, flaps sometimes, and is not too hot at present, but the defence was too often exposed by poor passing in midfield. I'd still be inclined to play McDonald, however. We could easily have come out of this game with a better result, but it was one of those nights when we looked doomed not to score, and weren't good enough to shape our own fate. Needs a midfield general, and a big lad up front to make the ball stick, at very least.

A word for Enoch Showumni, and not just because of his name. He is huge, he is not very good. He plays football like a carthorse tap dances. Losing to a team with him up front hurts. Tranmere were not very good at all, and on another day we'd probably have got something from this. But we are looking dangerously under cooked at the moment, and we need to get some shape, some conviction, and some reinforcements.

[ShropsSaddler]

I find the "I'd bring McDonald in" comments very, very strange. Our problem is not in defence where, as some have pointed out, we're not conceding from open play.

I thought you could see quite clearly tonight why the manager is favouring Lancashire over McDonald. A lot of play went through him and he looked comfortable on the ball. He played sensible passes, forward, to feet mixed in with a few directed longer balls. Neither Smith nor McDonald has that ability. If we play Smith and McDonald, we will end up resorting to "hoof it" football.

As the more sensible, rational posters have said, we weren't that poor first half tonight, but we are lacking any sort of a threat up front and one of the midfielders was pretty clueless in terms of playing football (if you don't know which one I mean, I'll give you a clue - I don't mean Richards!).

As for the changes, Grigg did enough to deserve another go. Especially when the alternative is Nicholls who, despite not having any great service, doesn't bother to offer himself for the ball and only seems to put any effort in once he's lost possession and is chasing a lost cause.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

There isn't much point in doing a big analysis post on that performance, it was just bad. If you want an idea in your head of the performance, think Kenny Hibbitt's first season. We had one clear chance all game, which seemed easier to score than miss. Tranmere were no better, they scored what I would describe as an "odd" goal, and missed a sitter from a free header with no defender any where near the bloke who missed it.

Grigg looked like he could be useful, but I am sure we will drag him down to our level. Taundry and Richards in midfield is just laughable. Gray looked like he would rather be somewhere else, and Jones looks like he is out of form, low on confidence or what ever. It's only one game I have seen, but on what I have seen tonight , we wont be far away from the relegation zone come the end of the season, if we don't bring in at least a couple of players better than we have in midfield, and more importantly if we keep Hutchings, who is quite frankly clueless.

Relegation isn't so bad, the away games are so much better in division 4 anyway.

[swiftyboy]

What was the attendance?

[tinned]

What was the attendance?

2,255 or something like that, with 300 odd from Plastic Scouseland.

[Stu]

I find the "I'd bring McDonald in" comments very, very strange. Our problem is not in defence where, as some have pointed out, we're not conceding from open play.

I'd potentially argue otherwise to be honest... Open play is about defending as a team, even more so, as one or two out of position means you're immediately on the backfoot... From a set piece, everyone is in place, you expect your centre halves to dominate, attack and lead the defence. We've now conceded three goals in two games, all set pieces, all of which saw nobody take command of the penalty area or attack the ball. To me, that immediately says you question your centre halves and/or your keeper.

[swiftyboy]

What was the attendance?

2,255 or something like that, with 300 odd from Plastic Scouseland.

Cheers mate. I know cup matches are low, but that seems very low if there were 300 Scousers! Below 2000 Saddlers? That's bad

[Bristol Fan]

I suspect I may be in the minority here, but I thought we were the better side tonight. If Saturday's performance was 3/10, this was nearer a 6. Not great obviously, but an improvement, and better than Tranmere who were about a 4.

No, I thought the same. We weren't exactly awful - the problem is that we're pretty unlikely (unless we get a non-league side in the FA Cup) to face a worse side this season than Tranmere, and we still managed to lose.

I'm not sure we've got the players to play 4-4-2. Nicholls is not good enough to play centre forward (a decent enough squad player for this level, no more) and Taundry's lack of skill and intelligence (for all his hard work) leaves Richards too exposed. I thought Richards was all right tonight, apparently everyone else thought he was pap, but he was playing by himself in midfield - Taundry just runs off whichever direction he's facing, Gray is a luxury and Jones didn't get involved enough. Until we sign a central midfielder and striker I don't think there is much option but to change to 4-5-1. I daresay we won't do that, but I hope Grigg gets a chance from the start on Saturday alongside Byfield - he looked quite promising when he came on.

[TomSaddler]

Was our illustrious owner there tonight? :twisted:

yeah he was. I was going to say even he cant have missed the fact that we need a couple of players desperately....

But then i remembered who i was talking about.

[DanWalsallFC]

I find the "I'd bring McDonald in" comments very, very strange. Our problem is not in defence where, as some have pointed out, we're not conceding from open play.

How is defence not our problem because we're not conceding from open play? I think we have 3 problems.. Defence, Midfield and Attack. It's that simple.
If you watch Lancareshires positioning in each and every one of MK Dons attacks he is pulled out of position.
Oh also, MK Dons scored 1 goal from open play.

[ShropsSaddler]

I haven't seen any replays of the goals so I may be proved wrong, but at the time of the goal, it seemed to me that there were 2 big men for Tranmere at the far post and only Lancashire marking them. That suggests it's not Lancashire at fault and, if we only look at the centre-halves, it would be Smith who was "missing"....but of course we can't criticise him!

Dan - defence is not our "problem" as such because during open play, the defenders are proving themselves more than capable. Set pieces should be worked on at the training ground, in terms of whether we man-mark or zone-mark and in terms of what role the keeper plays in defending them. We were spoiled by Ince, he took great command of the situation. We now have a keeper who shouts a lot when the plays not near, but seems to not want to take the same control when the balls around the 6 yard box. I'll give him a chance though.

Bristol - spot on with your assessment of Taundry. When I first saw him play for the youth team, I thought we had a potential superstar on our hands. We can now see why he's at Walsall and not a premier club! You can't help but like him for being a 100% trier and a local lad, but his footballing brain is miles behind and I don't think that's something you can teach. I pointed out at one stage last night that, whereas Tranmere's midfield was in a line across the pitch, ours had 3 players in it and Taundry seemed to be part of the back 4, having collapsed his position. And you're quite right about Richards, so no you're not the only one. He played some good football at times, he always asked for the ball and made himself available, and he made some good forward runs. A shame that he then wastes that half of the time with a sloppy pass or by wimping out of a challenge, but you can't ahve everything.

[King Crimson]

Okay we put McDonald up front at the end but what the hell is the point (as we did) of having an injury time corner and leaving 3 fecking players back, marking their one player?

Maybe they sensed what the quality of the delivery would be like. Like the game itself, we went out with a whimper.

I'm not sure whether we've ever had a subs bench with fewer first team appearances between them (not even just for WFC, but for anyone). Hutchings has depleted our squad and as such our options.

Positives: Finding a decent parking space and getting away from it after the match has never been easier.

Negatives: Queues for a pint, and no creative or incisive football worth watching (which presumably is why fewer than 2000 folks from Walsall can be bothered).


Still, there's more important things in life, as our Captain Marvel's tweets about his quest for a new girlfriend a couple of hours before kick-off would show. :?