Bury (H) J P Trophy 1st Round Tuesday 1/9/09

[Whitters]

Many thanks to the people who went to the game and left comments on here - they're much appreciated.

[WFC_Rob]

For the second match in 4 days, I've come away completely baffled by just how it's come to this.

I can't remember ever seeing any team with such a blatant lack of any sort of creative spark. To be fair, we do look reasonably solid at the back, and McDonald certainly looks like he could well be a useful signing. That said, we don't seem to carry any sort of flair, improvised skill or creativity.

Byfield was our best player by a long way tonight, and that's despite him not really looking fit.
Deeney was garbage for the second game in a row (I didn't see him against Leeds or Charlton). The things Deeney gave us during his good spell last season were hard work, a fighting spirit and an eagerness to get on the ball. For 2 successive games now however, he's looked almost the exact opposite. 7 games into the season and he looks lackluster, with little desire to change that. Not acceptable for me.

Till is alright, but nothing more. He's no better than Nicholls really. All too often his runs down the wing are intercepted without too much difficulty, and I think he only managed to get 1 good cross into the box in each of the last 2 games. Again, that's not good enough.

Some players have looked alright, but that's what makes things even more frustrating. The likes of Mattis and Richards look comfortable in terms of their ability, but seem to have little cutting edge.
It would be all too simple to say that the likes of Parkin aren't contributing, but we probably can't be sure whether or not he's got 'it' until we're putting the ball in the right areas.
I remember a 3-4 years back when we signed Eric Skora on loan and that signing seemed to completely change the way we played for the better. That sort of signing is exactly the sort we need imminently. If not, I fear a dramatic slide.


(And thst discussion comes before any of the off-pitch activities!)

[Sadders]

It might be to early to say, but on the early signs i'd say this side is almost as bad as the side the merscum took us down with a few years back. Its not looking good at all.

[Asps]

SSSSHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walsall fans overreacting ridiculously early? That doesn't sound right? We are usually such an optimistic bunch!

Some of you seriously need to get a grip. OK things with the club aren't great, but talk about getting caught up in the moment!

Or we could all pretend everything is fine. We could also wait until February and fake sock that we're points adrift at the bottom of the table. "How did we get here?" we could all ask.

Ignore the post Tinned, this idiot works for the club.

[Bristol Fan]

It might be to early to say, but on the early signs i'd say this side is almost as bad as the side the merscum took us down with a few years back. Its not looking good at all.

It's clearly better than the Merson side defensively. But for half that relegation season, we had Leitao and Fryatt up front. Yikes.

[Bernie]

The biggest mistory of the night for me..WHY DID ALEX NICHOLLS NOT START?..never mind only have the insult of 2 minutes, he should be starting, till is absolutely crud. I just cant understand it, i can only imagine how alex feels.

Nicholls started 40 matches last season. I wonder what he did to upset Hutchings during the close season? His freezing out is nowhere near as incomprehensible as that of Ishmel for two and half years, but it is still a bit odd. I don't imagine that Nicholls has any of the baggage that Ishmel carried around with him, so why has he suddenly become persona non grata?

[Fray Bentos is God!]

The biggest mistory of the night for me..WHY DID ALEX NICHOLLS NOT START?..never mind only have the insult of 2 minutes, he should be starting, till is absolutely crud. I just cant understand it, i can only imagine how alex feels.

Nicholls started 40 matches last season. I wonder what he did to upset Hutchings during the close season? His freezing out is nowhere near as incomprehensible as that of Ishmel for two and half years, but it is still a bit odd. I don't imagine that Nicholls has any of the baggage that Ishmel carried around with him, so why has he suddenly become persona non grata?

Young, gifted and white? :wink:

It's a sodding mystery.

[WFC_Rob]

The biggest mistory of the night for me..WHY DID ALEX NICHOLLS NOT START?..never mind only have the insult of 2 minutes, he should be starting, till is absolutely crud. I just cant understand it, i can only imagine how alex feels.

Nicholls started 40 matches last season. I wonder what he did to upset Hutchings during the close season? His freezing out is nowhere near as incomprehensible as that of Ishmel for two and half years, but it is still a bit odd. I don't imagine that Nicholls has any of the baggage that Ishmel carried around with him, so why has he suddenly become persona non grata?

I don't think it can be that dramatic, can it?
Fair enough I'd have him in the side ahead of Till, but there isnt' that much to choose between them.

[stefano123]

SSSSHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walsall fans overreacting ridiculously early? That doesn't sound right? We are usually such an optimistic bunch!

Some of you seriously need to get a grip. OK things with the club aren't great, but talk about getting caught up in the moment!

Aren't great??-talk about the understatement of the century.

I can't see the way out of this at the moment. Was hoping that Grigg might have got a chance tonight but instead we plundered the same halfwits that didn't perform saturday and surprisingly, they didn't perform again.

It's going to be a long old winter!

How are you measuring the clubs (mis)fortunes? Agreed, the start has been average at best/worst but we are only a handful of games into the season. If we are bottom approaching xmas i would agree that it would be hard to optimistic but come on.... There is plenty of time for the team to get better. I am by no means a happy clapper, as others will know, but i find the continual pessimism expressed by some on this board to be tremendously tiring.

Same old Walsall fans, if things aren't going our way immediately we wildly overreact. Here's a thought how about getting behind the team instead of huffing and puffing everytime we dont win by 6 or 7 goals (that comments not aimed at you deano but at moaning fans more generally).

There's a difference between objective concern and irrational and emotional overreaction! Perhaps the difference is that as apposed to some I am not wholly outraged by a mid-table finish this year; I am simply happy my team is Walsall FC. I find it refreshing that in an age of Arab investment my club remains little ould Walsall whose fans are not from Manchester or London, who never attend games; i like the fact i can turn up on a match day and get a ticket without any problem. I like the fact other people find my allegiance to a lower league club to be odd (especially living in Leeds) etc.

I fall into the anti-Bonser camp but i think we all need a hearty dose of REALISM every now and again.

[stefano123]

SSSSHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walsall fans overreacting ridiculously early? That doesn't sound right? We are usually such an optimistic bunch!

Some of you seriously need to get a grip. OK things with the club aren't great, but talk about getting caught up in the moment!

Or we could all pretend everything is fine. We could also wait until February and fake sock that we're points adrift at the bottom of the table. "How did we get here?" we could all ask.

Ignore the post Tinned, this idiot works for the club.

Erm... i think you'll find i do not.

And who the hell are you to insult me? Very bad form mate.

[Sadders]

The biggest mistory of the night for me..WHY DID ALEX NICHOLLS NOT START?..never mind only have the insult of 2 minutes, he should be starting, till is absolutely crud. I just cant understand it, i can only imagine how alex feels.

Nicholls started 40 matches last season. I wonder what he did to upset Hutchings during the close season? His freezing out is nowhere near as incomprehensible as that of Ishmel for two and half years, but it is still a bit odd. I don't imagine that Nicholls has any of the baggage that Ishmel carried around with him, so why has he suddenly become persona non grata?

Nicholls comes across as a hard working young lad, doens't seem to have anythink bad about him infact. Not only that but he has a lot of potential and quality. When he seems to play well, the team seems to win. He can beat most full backs in this league with his pace, he has a better final product than till as well. I understand we have options upfront ( which is obviously nicholls favoured position) BUT i'd still rather play him over till even if its out of position. The game needed something like him from the start tonight, his pace causes problems against teams in this league, never mind poor league 2 sides. Hope he starts a game soon, it would be a waste of potential for him to turn into another mark bradley and just fade out without any fight.

[Whitters]

stefano, I think the wild overreaction is just an immaturity thing.
Then you've got the folks who don't go to games but like to have a dig but you won't see these posters when the boys have a win.
It's a messageboard so you get all sorts of posts and like it or not that's the idea of it.

[Asps]

stefano, I think the wild overreaction is just an immaturity thing.
Then you've got the folks who don't go to games but like to have a dig but you won't see these posters when the boys have a win.
It's a messageboard so you get all sorts of posts and like it or not that's the idea of it.

If the pair of you had actually been to the match and witnessed what I've seen tonight, maybe you would understand why posts on here tonight are full of emotion and despair. This club is in freefall, on and off the pitch.

Stefano, I apologise for my earlier post. I don't happen to agree with you, but I shouldn't have posted that.

[stefano123]

SSSSHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walsall fans overreacting ridiculously early? That doesn't sound right? We are usually such an optimistic bunch!

Some of you seriously need to get a grip. OK things with the club aren't great, but talk about getting caught up in the moment!

...... and some people are unbelievably complacent, and THEY need to get a grip too.

This is serious you know ! This doesn't sound like bad luck, these are poor performances I'm hearing and reading about, and something serious needs to be done to change the whole mindset of the players at the Bescot.

I agree Geoff some are too complacent. I try to fall somewhere in between overreaction and complacency.

But to predict doom and disaster after only a few games cannot be considered as anything but an overreaction. Expressing Objective concern however is quiet rational. I am not for one moment suggesting that the team is strong enough to compete for the playoffs but what good is huffing and puffing (and staying away from home games for that matter) helping the team?

Some people (not directing this at you Geoff) should not consider themselves Walsall 'supporters' but Walsall 'berate-ers'. Afterall, aren't supporters supposed to support?

By all means berate the idiot that is Jeff Bonser and co. but show support for Hutchings and the team when they need it, which is now. Hutch has put a reasonable squad together on a pathetic budget. Its not his fault, or the players for that matter, that they are acting on behalf of a business which happens to also double as a football club. Telling them how useless they are does nothing for the club as a whole. The phrase don't cut off ya nose to spite ya face comes to mind.

[stefano123]

stefano, I think the wild overreaction is just an immaturity thing.
Then you've got the folks who don't go to games but like to have a dig but you won't see these posters when the boys have a win.
It's a messageboard so you get all sorts of posts and like it or not that's the idea of it.

If the pair of you had actually been to the match and witnessed what I've seen tonight, maybe you would understand why posts on here tonight are full of emotion and despair. This club is in freefall, on and off the pitch.

Stefano, I apologise for my earlier post. I don't happen to agree with you, but I shouldn't have posted that.

Thanks for the apology Asps. I have been to all the games this year, apart from tonight, and am more than aware of our (numerous) failings as a team. I can also accept that after a game emotions run very high. I have tried to justify my earlier post above which was in itself a little subjective, admittedly.

[King Crimson]

I saw the same game as most others on here. Very worrying indeed. I'd also go for Nicholls ahead of Till, but I don't think he's that much better - certainly not good enough on his own to turn us into a creative side (his decision-making isn't good enough for that), but he does have some pace and a reasonable shot.

I'd still like to see Jones paired up front with Byfield. Either that, or stick Roberts at the back and put our new bohemoth McDonald up front as a massive target for midfielders and Byfield to play off. We need to try something to get the forwards involved.

"Concentrate on the league now. Yadda, yadda..." :(

[Bernie]

Those who say "Don't Panic" are just the latest version of "Stop Moaning and Get Behind the Lads." All through the Merson era some of us were pointing out that we were being led downhill fast while lots of others could not see that there was anything to worry about. There was so much support for Merson from the majority of the fans that he was allowed to carry on damaging the club long after the problems became obvious. Too much support for the club authorities can be counterproductive

Two years ago we made an even worse start to the season than we have this year after Richard Money made a complete mess of his summer signings. Money acted just in time, got rid of Danny Sonner and Carlos Carneiro, and suddenly things changed round very well. We all want to see Hutchings take decisive action before it is too late - but pretending that everything is just fine is not going to help.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

SSSSHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walsall fans overreacting ridiculously early? That doesn't sound right? We are usually such an optimistic bunch!

Some of you seriously need to get a grip. OK things with the club aren't great, but talk about getting caught up in the moment!

...... and some people are unbelievably complacent, and THEY need to get a grip too.

This is serious you know ! This doesn't sound like bad luck, these are poor performances I'm hearing and reading about, and something serious needs to be done to change the whole mindset of the players at the Bescot.

I agree Geoff some are too complacent. I try to fall somewhere in between overreaction and complacency.

But to predict doom and disaster after only a few games cannot be considered as anything but an overreaction. Expressing Objective concern however is quiet rational. I am not for one moment suggesting that the team is strong enough to compete for the playoffs but what good is huffing and puffing (and staying away from home games for that matter) helping the team?

Some people (not directing this at you Geoff) should not consider themselves Walsall 'supporters' but Walsall 'berate-ers'. Afterall, aren't supporters supposed to support?

By all means berate the idiot that is Jeff Bonser and co. but show support for Hutchings and the team when they need it, which is now. Hutch has put a reasonable squad together on a pathetic budget. Its not his fault, or the players for that matter, that they are acting on behalf of a business which happens to also double as a football club. Telling them how useless they are does nothing for the club as a whole. The phrase don't cut off ya nose to spite ya face comes to mind.

I have no problem with anyone berating JB, It is common place now. Hutchings shouldn't escape from it all though. Terrible signings, and a team that has no idea what it is supposed to be doing. Worst Walsall side I have seen for years. He wont turn it round, he didn't turn anything round last season after Mullen, there was no progress, and I can't for the life of me see him salvaging anything out of this season. I never thought for a moment we would go down, but at this moment in time, I think it's almost a certainty

[Exile]

Gilmartin...did well when needed

What? By letting in 5 penalties? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

The above is tongue in cheek - I am not one to bag a keeper after his ten outfield mates have let him down, but in all seriousness, I am disgusted at tonight's result.

I don't need to know the performance improved - I'd be surprised if we didn't look better against lower league opposition - all I see right now is that we were on the end of a defeat.

Taking a positive away from that? It must be time to concentrate on the League, and get a good run in the only real cup competition with no distractions!. :wink:

[Duke]

hope we don't draw a non league team in the F A Cup

i feel a Slough coming on :(

[SheffieldSaddler]

Having read the messages above, I am stunned that we have a few people saying last nights performance was an improvement.
These people are obviously totally devoid from reality and are the sort of people that would find good in the total bad. PATHETIC you are.
All this rubbish about us playing 2 promotion favourites, yet look at the other teams we have played!
Look who we have been knocked out the cups by!
We are a 4th division outfit with a conference division management duo (at best).
Oh, and believe me, finally the fans who have attended matches and stuck by this joke of a boardroom set up, have also at last realised the club couldnt give a sh*t about them.
I and many others realised many moons ago, but hey, it final is getting there with others!

[Duke]

From what i'm told we did create 3 chances in the first half thats an improvement from sarturday.

still nowhere near good enough

[Asps]

hope we don't draw a non league team in the F A Cup

i feel a Slough coming on :(

Me too. We would lose heavily to a non league team and live on the tellie. Hope we get Leeds away and it will be over and done with the result slipping under the radar.

[PeruSaddler]

At the risk of upsetting many posters on here I thought Byfield was rubbish.

He has not changed since his last spell here, frequently offside, no sign of a shot remotely near the target, a seeming inability to bring a colleague into the game and regular "falling" over. Sure he's got pace and scored a legendary goal in the Play-Off final, but he adds nothing to the team; he's a bit like Jabo, but without the goal threat :wink:. He also doesn't have the strength Jabo had to barge people out of the way when he runs down yet another blind alley. To some degree this is about poor tactics, as all second half he was out on the left and he only can only kick with his right foot, making it easy for the Bury defenders to shepherd him towards the edge of the pitch before he gave it away. Sadly, he was one of the better players last night, but outside of the back five that ain't saying much is it?

Our big problem is creativity. We played with two wide men who barely crossed the ball all night, albeit that Till at least had it at his feet frequently during this game as opposed to being invisible for the rest of the season. Did sod all with it though! How did he get the Manny of the Match award? The central midfielders have NO creativity whatsoever. For them, raking pass = hoof. For all the talk of us needing a striker, I couldn't see even the return of Matty Fryatt improving us upfront unless there is some service.

Gloomy days and the future does not look at all good.

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Having read the messages above, I am stunned that we have a few people saying last nights performance was an improvement.
These people are obviously totally devoid from reality and are the sort of people that would find good in the total bad. PATHETIC you are.
All this rubbish about us playing 2 promotion favourites, yet look at the other teams we have played!
Look who we have been knocked out the cups by!
We are a 4th division outfit with a conference division management duo (at best).
Oh, and believe me, finally the fans who have attended matches and stuck by this joke of a boardroom set up, have also at last realised the club couldnt give a sh*t about them.
I and many others realised many moons ago, but hey, it final is getting there with others!

So you were there last night and Saturday then?

[Mirek]

I had the chance of a freebie tonight and stopped at home instead. I think I made the right decision.

At the moment I'm not sure when I will be going again. I could use the fact I am visiting my dad in hospital most nights and weekends as a reason but in all honesty why waste £30 plus two or three times a month when getting no enjoyment in return? The only thing I think I will miss is the pre match pint in the Saddlers Club.

You got there eventually Dave, even if it took you 17 months more than me (in fairness, it took ME two years after my older brother gave up!) :)

Hope your Dad will be OK mate.

Someone else has smelled the coffee at long last.

[King Crimson]

We are a 4th division outfit with a conference division management duo (at best).

Those two blokes who used to be your avatar?

:wink:

[stefano123]

I keep hearing about the "lack of creativity" and "bad signings" but seriously how can Hutch bring in quality players with the awful budget he is given? Those who are that naive are the ones devoid from reality not those who chose to be objective in their judgement of the current squad.

[PeruSaddler]

I keep hearing about the "lack of creativity" and "bad signings" but seriously how can Hutch bring in quality players with the awful budget he is given? Those who are that naive are the ones devoid from reality not those who chose to be objective in their judgement of the current squad.

It's not just "bad signings", it is the inept use of the talent at hand. Keeping Nicholls on the bench when it was crying out for some spark is criminal. That has nothing to do with the budget.

[BathSaddler]

I keep hearing about the "lack of creativity" and "bad signings" but seriously how can Hutch bring in quality players with the awful budget he is given? Those who are that naive are the ones devoid from reality not those who chose to be objective in their judgement of the current squad.

It's not just "bad signings", it is the inept use of the talent at hand. Keeping Nicholls on the bench when it was crying out for some spark is criminal. That has nothing to do with the budget.

I certainly agree that Nicholls is a better option than Till, but that is far more to do with how poor Till is than how good Nicholls is.

The fact that there is a groundswell to get Nicholls in the side [and I mean this with respect] is more a reflection of the paucity of talent available than it is the footballing ability of the player concerned.