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Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Reports and reaction from the 2009-10 season as Walsall finished 10th in League 1
ShyTallKnight
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:46 pm

Bangor Cymru Saddler wrote:
matt-thesaddler wrote:Coming into it alot more in the last 5 mins.


Bit pointless when you're 2-0 down isn't it ?


Comment of monumental stupidity.

m&m
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:07 pm

Bangor --i'm sure your a nice guy.Unfortunately we seem to disagree fundamentaly about our striking problems.Last season Troy Deeney scored 12 league one goals.Your man Sam Porkin scored how many and appears to be the preferred option.Amazing!I bet if someone gets droped it's Troy not Pork.
Also the same can be said about the Till/Nicholls contest.A player released by a league 2 club ()and that's only because 2 other clubs were deducted massive points) who did nothing last season as opposed to a 6 goal winger played out of position.
I am becoming increasingly alarmed about team selections.Just because you brought these deadbeats in Hutch you need to big enough to admit that they are not as good as what you had.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:27 pm

Surrey Saddler wrote:Just got back and not a happy man. We used the same tactics in the first half as we employed at Brighton. Then, we kept the ball, today, Charlton kept the ball and eventually scored...so the plan did'nt work. What troubled me though was the total lack of any pressure on the opponents goal in the first half. The goal was a scrambled affair and Jones had a right "go" at Ince. Jones was taken off at half time. I wonder whether further words were exchanged in the dressing room? There was some attempt in the second half to retrieve matters but to no effect. Gloom :evil:



jones, parkin and richards all gave ince a load of f and b`s

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Wyrley_saddler
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:49 pm

We never wanted it at all. Every time we got the ball it was hoofed up. When we did get it down, it went outwide and then straight back into a conjected middle of the park. One of our worst performances in a long time.


Upfront and midfield we offered nothing. Deeney tried and tried so did a few others but there was no creativity what so ever until Richards switched to LM. Everytime we got it on the wing we didn't try to take the man on, we tried to pass it inside, which chanegd when Richards went on the left.

On the positive side, the defence was pretty solid again. Clayt was the weak point. He should have come out and caught/punched the flick on for their first goal. Smith and Hughes were solid at CB along with Westlake and Vincent at fullback.

It could have easily been a different story though. At 1-0, we had a goal dissallowed for offside. Which from my angle was hard to judge.

We also hit the post via Parkin (who, yes won a header!).

I was impressed by Charlton. They played some decent football at times and deserved the win.

Overall, we were poor going forward. We're lacking creativity and a goal scorer. If we don't start to create more chances we will be in trouble this season.

BathSaddler
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:00 pm

It was men against boys. The first half was very poor - we gave them far too much respect. We barely got a kick most of the time and created absolutely nothing. The second half was an improvement, but that would not have been hard. Parkin was unlucky with his header that hit the bar, but other than that, was a complete liability. If he is the answer to our goalscoring problems, then the question must be 'a cast off striker that comes cheap'.

Other negatives:

Till - a complete waste of space. His shot over the bar just before his substitution was his only contribution.

Richards - I was looking forward to seeing him, but he had all the creativity of a mop in the first half. An improvement in the second, when he moved to the left, but seemed to lack belief.

Nicholls - he came on in the second half for Till and was very poor IMO. It was his loss of possession that led to the second goal which effectively killed it off as a contest. A complete powder-puff performance.

Overall, no penetration and no creativity. We are desperately short on quality in midfield and upfront - if we don't strengthen in those areas we will struggle and the future looks grim.

Positives:

Hughes/Smith coped manfully.

Mattis was gritty in the middle and never gave up.

Deeney improved as the game wore on. He has potential, but needs somebody decent with him who he can learn from.

Jones - I thought he was our one attacking outlet in the first half, and I was surprised he was taken off.

Charlton were good - light years away in quality from us.

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SheffieldSaddler
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:09 pm

When will people realise that you have to spend money to get a decnt creative midfield player and a decent striker.
ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IS IT?

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:12 pm

Entirely expected defeat, so no surprised, or too bothered. Next, please!

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:28 pm

As regards today's result, I'm another in the "get it into perspective" camp. Did anyone REALLY expect us to go to The Valley and come away with points? I'd put the chances somewhere lower than the expectation of a point at home vs. Leeds, and we didn't get that either! More worrying (and unexpected) was the failure to build on the opening day win at Brighton by taking 3 points at Bescot vs Southend, and that failure was surely as much self-inflicted as it was down to the skills of the opposition. We did, after all, appear to have the game comfortably in our grasp until the red card incident, if reports are to be believed.

Having said that, the general concensus appears to be that we have little creativity in midfield and we are weak and lacking quality up front, and if those features are not corrected - hopefully but not expectedly by additions to the squad before the "window" closes - I suppose we shall continue to struggle, no matter what opposition is put before us.

It's my view that the lack of investment continues to hold us back, though a number of UTSers will say we can't afford additions with so many fans staying away. I would respond to that by saying it is up to the club to dig deeper and attract us back by putting a decent and effective squad out on the pitch. The argument that it's the fans' fault is a bit like me saying to my clients that I'll get a decent computer system to service their needs more effectively if they'll cough up their fees in advance. The reality is that I have to show I have the skills and resources to provide the service, before they'll appoint me to work for them. Rocket science it ain't, business know-how it certainly is.

Of course I haven't seen a game yet, so I have to rely on what I hear and what I read, so I could be totally wrong, but the weight of numbers is certainly suggesting that quality problems are holding us back, even at this early stage of the season.

To some extent I agree with Jockey that we should wait ten games and see what develops before we really start to worry. I also agree we've played two games that we didn't honestly expect to get any points from. Sadly though, the reality is that ten games into the season will be too late to get players in, and that could be serious if we continue to slip down the table and have only the present squad to choose from.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:51 pm

Exile wrote:Entirely expected defeat, so no surprised, or too bothered. Next, please!


You may have thought differently if you had seen how poor we were in the first half today.

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belgiansaddler
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:52 pm

we have a team (squad) of promising kids with a few experienced heads. We don't have to play Leeds or Charlton every week and I am sure there are plenty of worse teams than us in this league. That said the lack of creativity and pace is what worries me, we have not really looked threatening in the matches I have seen and this is apparently also the case in the matches I have missed judging by the commentary and the comments on here. Jones looks like potentially the most creative player so lets hope he has a blinder between now and the end of the season. Gillingham next week is an important match.

I am not expecting any amazing signings, as a Walsall fan that would be rather silly. I just hope that what we have got can grow into a team unit a la Sir Ray's teams. Time to step up to the plate boys, and time for Hutch and MoC to prove their worth. UTS

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:13 pm

I think we have big issue's.

We have no pace, no cutting edge and no creativity.

Its going to be a long season unless we bring in some quality to at least replace what we have lost (Jabo & Ricketts)

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belgiansaddler
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:03 am

I agree we miss ricketts, despite his ridiculous suspensions. Apart from Jones who has showed some promising signs we are sadly lacking in creativity. Still onwards and upwords at least no-one to my knowledge fell down any stairs today :D

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:46 am

Looking at the goals Clayton was clearly at fault for the first. He should have had an easy catch as the gentle cross floated in. We were stretched at the back for the second, and that one does not look too good either.

We have now played five matches. Two against good sides, Leeds and Charlton. One against an average side: Southend, they may have been fancied for promotion, but have yet to win in the league. And two against very poor sides, Accrington and Brighton. We have managed one win, one draw and three defeats. There is nothing to be optimistic about so far.

But since our squad is certainly weaker than it was this time last year it is hardly surprising that we are not doing as well as we did then. I do not blame Hutch for this, but when you have good players leave and only the budget to replace them with players who are a lot cheaper then what can he do?

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:43 am

larryhaggler wrote:I think we have big issue's.

We have no pace, no cutting edge and no creativity.

Its going to be a long season unless we bring in some quality to at least replace what we have lost (Jabo & Ricketts)



totally agree , we are conceding goals at the rate of 2 a game and never look like scoring ourselves.

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myleftknee
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:49 am

Sign of a bad side I'm affraid, can't keep clean sheets and can't score, worrying times.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:54 am

289 Walsall fans officially at The Valley, which was probably about right.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:02 am

I was disappointed at yesterday's display. We rarely pressured Charlton - apart from Hughes' disallowed effort and Parkin's header which hit the post - and they barely needed to get out of second gear to beat us comfortably.

I thought Ince could have claimed the ball to prevent the first goal and we were easily overwhelmed by a couple of quick, accurate passes for the second.

I appreciate that we played one of the best teams in the division but I thought we played without momentum or belief, which is disappointing at this stage of the season.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:07 am

People prattle on about LeEds & Charlton being the best teams in the League, but they ain't.

There are in this league on merit. Leeds are been in this League for 3 season, so are an established Div 1 team.

Nothing to be scared of!!! Just crap like us.

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caldy
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:45 am

There are many teams in this division this season who are "promotion favourites". This is a tough league this year. Teams such as Norwich, Southampton, Charlton, Millwall, Leeds, MK Dons, Huddersfield, Bristol Rovers will all be there or there abouts at the end of the season. We need to be able to compete with these teams because if we don't take any points off them we are really going to struggle. There is a maximum of 48 points there, points we need. The management knew who were in the division when putting the side together so we should be closer in terms of competing than we are. Something needs to be sorted on the training ground, it may be a small change but whatever it needs it needs to be done sooner rather than later.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:47 am

I dont think we'll go down but were gunna flirt with the relegation pack all season imo.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:16 pm

I was disturbed to note the foul-count for the game:
17 by Walsall, 4 (four!) by Charlton.
Can someone who was at the game tell me whether this was:
- a sign of desperation
- simple lack of skill
- crAp refereeing
- due to the opposition diving around
- all of the above
:?:

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:53 pm

SWS1 wrote:I was disturbed to note the foul-count for the game: 17 by Walsall, 4 (four!) by Charlton. Can someone who was at the game tell me whether this was: - a sign of desperation - simple lack of skill - crud refereeing - due to the opposition diving around - all of the above :?:


Good question.

One other possible reason - If you have already got the ball you are not very likely to commit a foul.

Anyone who was at the game who can answer SWS1's question?

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Wyrley_saddler
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:03 pm

SWS1 wrote:I was disturbed to note the foul-count for the game:
17 by Walsall, 4 (four!) by Charlton.
Can someone who was at the game tell me whether this was:
- a sign of desperation
- simple lack of skill
- crud refereeing
- due to the opposition diving around
- all of the above
:?:


I would say it was desperation, frustration, lack of skill, being slow to the ball, stupid tackles and the occasional crud decision

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:24 pm

they were just better at everything , including not giving free kicks away


BUT i dont think it was all that bad ............

I was there with a neutral who - although admitting there was no doubt that the best time won - thought that until their 2nd goal we were very much in it - and the disallowed goal and Parkins header that hit the post then went across the line seemed to indicate it wasnt our day ..

I would disagree with some previous comments and ask some questions of the defence - both goals we gifted them on a plate . Whether the first was Ince or woeful marking maybe only the back 4 truly know , and why oh why did their sub have the freedom of Greenwich to decide what to do and pick his spot for the 2nd? Was Vincent on a tea break? And Westlake in brutal truth was done for pace / found out of position a few times , although this is only to be expected against probably the best team he has ever faced .

If we could have gone in at HT at 0-0 I have a feeling that we had it in us to get something , but you just cant gift goals away. That said , considering the pressure we found ourselves up against for long periods , it was a big ask for our defence .

Felt sorry for Parkin and Deeney as they had precious little service or support , and didnt think they did badly when we did have a little decent spell in the 2nd half - i thought we had a goal in us in that spell..

Dissapointing day and am a quarter of a ton poorer , but at least we didnt end up with 10 men i suppose

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:34 pm

right here goes

i didnt go to brighton but ive been to the other games and i went to charlton today.

firstly on todays performance we looked very poor right from the kick off.
charlton very easily took control of the match and it looked like it was going to be an avalanche but in fairness we huffed and puffed but didnt look like blowing any houses down.
it was no shock that charlton took the lead but was probably in a bit of a spell when we looked like we might somehow see it out until half time.
players that were very inaffective would include peter till and sam parkin.
i think there is already a pattern emerging with 2 scapegoats maybe 3 with how poor ince has been in recent matches as well.
second half was a little bit better but we never looked like creating any chances of getting back into the match and was no surprise when charlton doubled the lead.
they sat back a bit for final 10 minutes where we did string a few passes together and nearly scored with a sam parkin header which in itself was the only constructive think he did in whole 90 mins but it would have only have been scant consalation as charlton always were in control in defence.
we played very deep form the off which we also seem to have done in the 2 home games and i would like to see us a little bit more adventorous at times especially out wide.

it$ reminded me of some performances when we were in the championship against some good teams when we looked beat after 10 minutes.

make no bones about it charlton will be promoted this season so well write this one off but the home game against gillingham will tell us a lot about what will happen this season.

as i said to my mate who went you cant expect hutchins to make a gourmet meal with 2 eggs a lump of cheese and branston pickle which is what is really being asked of him this season.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:52 pm

wednesburysaddler wrote:as i said to my mate who went you cant expect hutchins to make a gourmet meal with 2 eggs a lump of cheese and branston pickle which is what is really being asked of him this season


Cheese omelette with relish not good enough for you? Snob! :D

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:24 pm

Exile wrote:
wednesburysaddler wrote:as i said to my mate who went you cant expect hutchins to make a gourmet meal with 2 eggs a lump of cheese and branston pickle which is what is really being asked of him this season


Cheese omelette with relish not good enough for you? Snob! :D


Im quite hungry now, sounds good.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:25 am

Albeit after only four games a major point to consider in our start to the season is the teams we have played - defeats against the current top two teams, a point when down to 10 men to middle of the table Southend and 3 points against lowly Brighton, this suggest we are exactly as we were last season a mid table team.

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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:18 am

Exile wrote:
wednesburysaddler wrote:as i said to my mate who went you cant expect hutchins to make a gourmet meal with 2 eggs a lump of cheese and branston pickle which is what is really being asked of him this season


Cheese omelette with relish not good enough for you? Snob! :D



"Oh for Go' Sake, I'll maeke ye a courgette frittata"

leics_saddler
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.

Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:22 am

Disclaimer: this was my first match of the season and so I can only say it how I saw it, certainly not how any journalist saw it. I have not watched the TV highlights.

Make no mistake, this was a poor effort. Charlton were able to brush us aside without breaking sweat. It's only their utter complacency that saved us from a mauling. The E&S has it spot on and the static first half was a shameful display. We played better in the second half and still could have come away with a scarcely deserved point.

Another thing that has become apparent is the excellent points made by a number of individuals from previous games, Neil regarding formation and MMF's comparison of Parkin and Ricketts to name but two. I'll do player by player first though:

Ince: standard

Westlake: struggled
Hughes [c]: excellent
Smith: excellent
Vincent: abysmal

Till: Adrian Thorpe
Richards: poor
Mattis: contributed
Jones: blameless

Deeney: excellent
Parkin: statuesque

Subs:

Taundry: contributed
Nicholls: didn't

Going, from the back:

To me Ince was pretty blameless for both goals. His kicking was suspect as ever and Charlton (including the crowd) soon twigged it. The opening goal has caused some debate (even amongst the players it appears) but the fact remains that if there are two players unmarked at the far post to bundle the ball in, it's unfair to expect Ince to deal with that, even discounting that one of them appeared to jump on him. I was surprised to see the goal stand.

Hughes and Smith were excellent and it's their partnership that will stop us from sliding all the way down the league this season. They put in countless blocks, tackles and headers. Hughes took his 'goal' superbly for a defender.

The fullbacks were a different story however as they came up against a team with ideas out wide. Westlake is a young lad and will have learned a lot. He must take some of the blame for the opener with a cross coming in from the Charlton left. Vincent is certainly old enough to know that he was roasted time and time again. Had he put in any tackles, he might have had more success. It wasn't as if he held play up at all by jockeying their winger Sam. Both goals were finished from the inside right position with players completely unmarked. If anyone can actually name a player Vincent marked or tackled I will give them five new English pounds. Let's be charitable and suggest the opening goal came because an offside trap went wrong. Where the hell was he for the second then?

In midfield, we have a bit of a problem in Richards, who looked like he'd just been given a 2yr contract. I would expect a midfielder at this level to be able to do two out of three of passing, running and tackling. He did none in the first half. His second half display was better with one or two crosses put in but that was it all game. Mattis consequently ended up chasing shadows for a lot of the game. He stuck to his game very well and looked a good player today.

Out wide, Till is exactly the sort of player I expected him to be. He flatters to deceive in patches, looking dangerous, but ultimately going through the motions with little sense of purpose. He faded today and I would expect this to be one of two stock performances with the other being the 'headless chicken' option. Jones looked to have a sense of purpose and in a poor first half looked our biggest threat. He is a winger/striker and spent most of time in the first half trying to back up Vincent. As Richards is better suited to this task, I would suggest his substitution was ultimately tactical, even if there were some words exchanged.

Deeney is a shining beacon is a sea of toss. Some posters have suggested he is of limited ability but willing and should be dropped. This is absolute horse plop. His attitude is not just good, it is absolutely outstanding. He was the one who led the attacking threat and workrate. At the end of the game he was the one player who led in applauding the away support, who rose to applaud him in turn. He ran himself ragged doing two people's work, harrying defenders and making the most of nothing in very Jorgesque way. He certainly has enough ability for this league and in a better team, I'd suggest he'd flourish.

Parkin could only be a shining beacon if he was set alight. Yes, he's scored two goals this year and hit the post yesterday, but that was strictly the sum total of his contribution. He is either unfit, extremely lacking in sharpness or lazy. His movement off the ball was nil and his inclusion leads to the chasm between forwards and midfield. I don't know if all of his early career goals came about as a result of golden chances presented on a silver platter, but he won't be getting that here. For the News of the World to award Deeney and him 5&6 is an absolute joke - 8&4 is far more accurate, as Vincent got 4.

Taundry did a lot to stiffen up midfield when coming on, despite taking an early knock. Nicholls did himself no favours and won't displace Parkin with this display. He lacked conviction after a bit of early huffing and puffing. A lazy last minute volley that ballooned over summed up his contribution.

The management do appear to have a bit about them and did make a good tactical change at half time to the team's benefit. However, this rigid 4-4-2 with two wide men isn't going to work with this personnel and there is little movement off the ball to give the required fluidity of play.

The officials were mediocre to poor, with one particularly impotent linesman. Baywatch blue showed of the referee's manly gut - er physique - and black culottes were very slimming to his fat ass.

Some people have questioned whether it is appropriate to expect anything from the game. This attitude isn't good enough from supporters or team alike. Should we just donate three points to save costs? The very least we can expect is a spirited and professional performance. One should compare this performance with that at Leicester 12 months ago. Deeney performed in a similar way to Jabo. Vincent and Westlake performed like Boertein and Palmer against good wingers. The difference is that between Ricketts and Parkin. Ricketts almost played a free role and linked up midfield and forward play by walking around and taking up intelligent positions, using the ball effectively.

Ultimately, little will matter when we finish in a mid-table position, but such a submissive display is very difficult to take and not likely to have anyone flooding back in a tearful homecoming.

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