Leeds United (H) League 1 Tuesday 18/8/09.

[Welsh_Saddler]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but perhaps someone can enlighten me as to why Richards was substituted so early in the game - is he injured, do we know?

I think it was after 29 minutes or so.

[Asps]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but perhaps someone can enlighten me as to why Richards was substituted so early in the game - is he injured, do we know?

I think it was after 29 minutes or so.

Yes he was injured.

[SCHOLAR SADDLER]

not a bad game but it was obvious that leeds are stronger this season than last and we are not as strong as last season . what worries me is we dont seem to be able to create chances , till has done nothing in 2 games and to be honest he is not good enough. the central midfield were also lacking badly in the 2 games .defensivly we are sound and some of the performances from smith especially have been superb.
the quicker we sign a quality midfielder and striker the better because i dont think we will win many games if we dont.

on an other issue why does smith stand by the corner taker when taking corners when he seems to win more headers than any one else on the pitch ?

[Jorge14]

All in all a pretty enjoyable night, especially with us nicking it right at the end. My only problem was your stewards pre-match, they were shockingly poor and didn't seem to have a clue what they were doing.

Is that why your fans ripped out and broke hundreds of seats? And of course, it'll be Walsall reported for YOUR pitch invasion. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Walsall fans to have the passion to bring nearly 4000 people to a place like Walsall on a Tuesday night (I'd love them to bring 400 on a Tuesday night! :wink: ), but what makes you think you can go around damaging other teams stadia?

I think Leeds will go up this season, the difference in class told with the late winner. Before then, two average sides had fought a fairly even contest with just a couple of players on either side (Beckford and Becchio, Smith, Hughes and Jones from Walsall) standing out. We lack that touch of class in the centre of midfield (it might have been a different game had Richards stayed on - it was the first time I've seen him and he was composed on the ball and had a good left foot, being at the heart of everything good we did in a decent first half hour. We became scrappier once he went off) and pace and poaching ability up front. I'd like have seen Nicholls given half an hour up top last night. For what it is worth, this isn't a slight on Parkin or Deeney - both worked their socks off and gave the centre-halves a tough going over. I'm certainly not going to join the anti-Parkin camp at this stage, I think he has something about him but it too alike Deeney.

A great save from Incey was met by a prolonged ovation from the home fans, who I'm afraid I must criticise again. Cast your minds back, even to when Bolton played us in the League Cup a few years ago, when we used to concede a late goal in a big game there would be a crescendo of noise, willing the lads to pull it back. Last night, as deflated as we all felt when Leeds scored, everyone just got up and left "because of the traffic". Not good enough, Saddlers fans.

So many more positives than negatives last night. Were I Hutch, I'd have sat the players down and told them that they have outbattled and outperformed the biggest and best side in the division (and they are, comfortably) for 75 minutes. It is a big achievement for a team who is only in its third game together. There is nothing to fear in this division, and I am still absurdly confident about our chances this season. A classier midfielder who knows when to hold on to the ball and a pacy striker (who we might already have) would have been the winning difference for us last night.

[Whitti Steve]

All in all a pretty enjoyable night, especially with us nicking it right at the end. My only problem was your stewards pre-match, they were shockingly poor and didn't seem to have a clue what they were doing.

Is that why your fans ripped out and broke hundreds of seats? And of course, it'll be Walsall reported for YOUR pitch invasion. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Walsall fans to have the passion to bring nearly 4000 people to a place like Walsall on a Tuesday night (I'd love them to bring 400 on a Tuesday night! :wink: ), but what makes you think you can go around damaging other teams stadia?

I think Leeds will go up this season, the difference in class told with the late winner. Before then, two average sides had fought a fairly even contest with just a couple of players on either side (Beckford and Becchio, Smith, Hughes and Jones from Walsall) standing out. We lack that touch of class in the centre of midfield (it might have been a different game had Richards stayed on - it was the first time I've seen him and he was composed on the ball and had a good left foot, being at the heart of everything good we did in a decent first half hour. We became scrappier once he went off) and pace and poaching ability up front. I'd like have seen Nicholls given half an hour up top last night. For what it is worth, this isn't a slight on Parkin or Deeney - both worked their socks off and gave the centre-halves a tough going over. I'm certainly not going to join the anti-Parkin camp at this stage, I think he has something about him but it too alike Deeney.

A great save from Incey was met by a prolonged ovation from the home fans, who I'm afraid I must criticise again. Cast your minds back, even to when Bolton played us in the League Cup a few years ago, when we used to concede a late goal in a big game there would be a crescendo of noise, willing the lads to pull it back. Last night, as deflated as we all felt when Leeds scored, everyone just got up and left "because of the traffic". Not good enough, Saddlers fans.

So many more positives than negatives last night. Were I Hutch, I'd have sat the players down and told them that they have outbattled and outperformed the biggest and best side in the division (and they are, comfortably) for 75 minutes. It is a big achievement for a team who is only in its third game together. There is nothing to fear in this division, and I am still absurdly confident about our chances this season. A classier midfielder who knows when to hold on to the ball and a pacy striker (who we might already have) would have been the winning difference for us last night.

That happened last night?

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Reaction:

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... -answered/

[saddlerJP]

Not sure what people thought of Bradley but I think he's a coward and should be dropped from the whole squad on that performance. He spent most of this time trying to hide from the ball, he didn't want it and was making sure it wasn't given to him, wimped out of tackles and if the ball did land at his feet he just got rid with his first touch.

[Duke]

Put Saturday's and last nights game together and you can count the number of chances we created on one hand , that my big concern.
Leeds hardy caused us any problems in the first half otherthan one superb finger tip save by Ince . it was a complete different story in the second time and time again they tore us apart .

Both goals came from defensive errors Westlake and Smith which is a real shame as both players were superb,
Up front Jones was our only threat , Parkin is no more a centre forward than ny Granddaughter Bradley was very disappointing in midfield and i felt the game passed him by.

Effort and comittment cannot be faulted but will than be enough to keep us out of a relegation battle ?

[King Crimson]

An enjoyable, open game. One thing's for sure, the course of our season won't be determined by how well we do against Leeds. I think they'll finally make it up to The Championship this time around. Excellent vocal support too.

For me, the key difference is creation of chances. In the Premier League, you give a top notch striker one clear chance and they'll more often than not take it. At this level, even some of the better strikers (like Beckford) may need seven or eight attempts to score one goal. It therefore stands to reason that if we only create one or two chances in a game, we're unlikely to score many goals from open play.

Leeds created loads more chances than us, despite us having our fair share of possession. As said above, we need more creativity in the middle, and for me only Jones really looked threatening from the flanks. Bradley looked poor, Taundry is 'workmanlike' at best. The worrying thing is that even had Mattis been playing and Richards not been injured, I couldn't see much creativity coming from midfield.

The other way to create chances, aside from passing through balls, is raw pace. We have none (not real pace - although Nicholls can run a bit). Leeds' right-back was faster than Deeney and Parkin has nowt (he actually reminded me a lot of a second-half-of-the-season Tommy Mooney: lots of running, little product).

I don't share some of the optimism above based on 'battling' and 'matching' Leeds. Neither of those two things get you goals. We need: a natural finisher who can score from a small number of chances, some midfield creativity - a player who can run at defenders from midfield or play a defence-splitting ball, or some raw pace that will terrify defenders and make a long ball a genuine option.

Can't see much of that in our squad, or much chance of us getting that in before the window closes. I hope I'm very, very wrong.

[philthesaddler]

Put Saturday's and last nights game together and you can count the number of chances we created on one hand , that my big concern.
Leeds hardy caused us any problems in the first half otherthan one superb finger tip save by Ince . it was a complete different story in the second time and time again they tore us apart .

Both goals came from defensive errors Westlake and Smith which is a real shame as both players were superb,
Up front Jones was our only threat , Parkin is no more a centre forward than ny Granddaughter Bradley was very disappointing in midfield and i felt the game passed him by.

Effort and comittment cannot be faulted but will than be enough to keep us out of a relegation battle ?

You can battle all you like, but if you don't score goals, you dont win games.

[Duke]

Put Saturday's and last nights game together and you can count the number of chances we created on one hand , that my big concern.
Leeds hardy caused us any problems in the first half otherthan one superb finger tip save by Ince . it was a complete different story in the second time and time again they tore us apart .

Both goals came from defensive errors Westlake and Smith which is a real shame as both players were superb,
Up front Jones was our only threat , Parkin is no more a centre forward than ny Granddaughter Bradley was very disappointing in midfield and i felt the game passed him by.

Effort and comittment cannot be faulted but will than be enough to keep us out of a relegation battle ?

You can battle all you like, but if you don't score goals, you dont win games.

Agreed something has to change qiuckly

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Put Saturday's and last nights game together and you can count the number of chances we created on one hand , that my big concern.
Leeds hardy caused us any problems in the first half otherthan one superb finger tip save by Ince . it was a complete different story in the second time and time again they tore us apart .

Both goals came from defensive errors Westlake and Smith which is a real shame as both players were superb,
Up front Jones was our only threat , Parkin is no more a centre forward than ny Granddaughter Bradley was very disappointing in midfield and i felt the game passed him by.

Effort and comittment cannot be faulted but will than be enough to keep us out of a relegation battle ?

You can battle all you like, but if you don't score goals, you dont win games.

And, worse than that, it's not a matter of not scoring goals, it's that we aren't creating chances. I think Parkin, by the way he's taken those two pens, can put the ball away, but he'll never create the chances for himself and no one else is doing it. Creativity, creativity, creativity.

[philthesaddler]

Put Saturday's and last nights game together and you can count the number of chances we created on one hand , that my big concern.
Leeds hardy caused us any problems in the first half otherthan one superb finger tip save by Ince . it was a complete different story in the second time and time again they tore us apart .

Both goals came from defensive errors Westlake and Smith which is a real shame as both players were superb,
Up front Jones was our only threat , Parkin is no more a centre forward than ny Granddaughter Bradley was very disappointing in midfield and i felt the game passed him by.

Effort and comittment cannot be faulted but will than be enough to keep us out of a relegation battle ?

You can battle all you like, but if you don't score goals, you dont win games.

And, worse than that, it's not a matter of not scoring goals, it's that we aren't creating chances. I think Parkin, by the way he's taken those two pens, can put the ball away, but he'll never create the chances for himself and no one else is doing it. Creativity, creativity, creativity.

But chances are made through a variety of ways, not just midfield. A long ball and flick on can create a chance if you have pace up front, if you dont its a waste of time.

I agree with what you say in the reaction piece that its that we're not 'stretching' teams, but we're not stretching teams because we have no pace upfront - ie. I dont think you stretch teams with pace or creativity in midfield. You could have Gareth Barry playing in midfield for us, but his 'creativity' and through balls etc would be useless with our front line because they simply wouldn't have the pace to get on the end of them quick enough to cause problems.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

But we have plenty of pace on the wings, whose job is to get behind the defence and get crosses in and they are just not doing it, mainly because they are starting too deep. How many times did a winger get a cross in from the byline in either game? I suspect the answer is none.

[Fray Bentos is God!]

But we have plenty of pace on the wings, whose job is to get behind the defence and get crosses in and they are just not doing it, mainly because they are starting too deep. How many times did a winger get a cross in from the byline in either game? I suspect the answer is none.

I only see them as deep when they're defending from a goal kick or a throw in where they "doubled-up." I think we're trying to play one-touch-football and this means that the wingers, full-backs, central midfielders and strikers (that are on the same side of the pitch as the winger) are quite close. I like that way we play but it would help with variation if the wingers went on their bike once in a while.

[Bernie]

Not sure what people thought of Bradley but I think he's a coward and should be dropped from the whole squad on that performance. He spent most of this time trying to hide from the ball, he didn't want it and was making sure it wasn't given to him, wimped out of tackles and if the ball did land at his feet he just got rid with his first touch.

I usually defend our young players, and would certainly not agree with the word "coward", but I have to agree with you. It hard to see what Bradley contributes to the side. I am afraid that I have seen enough over the last year to say that he is very likely to be a young player who has not fulfilled his early promise. A midfield with Bradley is practically a man down because he is just not involved enough. He seldom wins the ball and rarely breaks up the opposition play. On the rare occasions when he has the ball he does not use it particularly well.

He should go out on loan to a team at a lower level to see if he can find again the form that he showed when he made his first appearances.

But we have plenty of pace on the wings, whose job is to get behind the defence and get crosses in and they are just not doing it, mainly because they are starting too deep. How many times did a winger get a cross in from the byline in either game? I suspect the answer is none.

Jones got in a few crosses, but he is very right footed, so his crosses from the by-line with his left foot were weak and stopped by the first man. He did put across a few early crosses with his right foot, but we seem to be short of forwards who are good at attacking crosses, because they were all (like the corners) dealt with easily.

[bangsection]

I think Leeds will go up this season, the difference in class told with the late winner. Before then, two average sides had fought a fairly even contest with just a couple of players on either side (Beckford and Becchio, Smith, Hughes and Jones from Walsall) standing out. We lack that touch of class in the centre of midfield (it might have been a different game had Richards stayed on - it was the first time I've seen him and he was composed on the ball and had a good left foot, being at the heart of everything good we did in a decent first half hour. We became scrappier once he went off) and pace and poaching ability up front. I'd like have seen Nicholls given half an hour up top last night. For what it is worth, this isn't a slight on Parkin or Deeney - both worked their socks off and gave the centre-halves a tough going over. I'm certainly not going to join the anti-Parkin camp at this stage, I think he has something about him but it too alike Deeney.

A great save from Incey was met by a prolonged ovation from the home fans, who I'm afraid I must criticise again. Cast your minds back, even to when Bolton played us in the League Cup a few years ago, when we used to concede a late goal in a big game there would be a crescendo of noise, willing the lads to pull it back. Last night, as deflated as we all felt when Leeds scored, everyone just got up and left "because of the traffic". Not good enough, Saddlers fans.

So many more positives than negatives last night. Were I Hutch, I'd have sat the players down and told them that they have outbattled and outperformed the biggest and best side in the division (and they are, comfortably) for 75 minutes. It is a big achievement for a team who is only in its third game together. There is nothing to fear in this division, and I am still absurdly confident about our chances this season. A classier midfielder who knows when to hold on to the ball and a pacy striker (who we might already have) would have been the winning difference for us last night.

A good summary Jorge.

Positives for me: the back four look solid - Smith in particular looks like he will have an excellent season and could be the next chunk of Jeff's loan to get repaid. Jones was excellent in the second half - how refreshing it is to see a Walsall winger running at a fullback, better crossing and he could be a real threat this season.

Negatives: Till contributed little and, as Neil has said, we do seem to struggle to create chances. However, as Exile pointed out further up the thread we've played the title favourites and two games with ten men so we may need to wait for a larger sample of games before we can make a more informed judgement.

Fans seem keen to get on Parkin's back already which baffles me. He's a classic target man whose entire raison d'etre is to make the ball stick up front, bring other forwards into the game and get on the end of chances in the box. He does the first two pretty well and we'll have to reserve judgement on the third because we simply aren't getting the ball to him where he needs it i.e. about 6 yards out. Deeney has never really played with someone like Parkin before and will take time to build up an understanding with him. At Accrington I actually felt that Nicholls and Parkin looked to have a better understanding until we went down to 10 men so perhaps this is an option that should be looked at, much as I like Deeney as a player.

[Asps]

All in all a pretty enjoyable night, especially with us nicking it right at the end. My only problem was your stewards pre-match, they were shockingly poor and didn't seem to have a clue what they were doing.

Is that why your fans ripped out and broke hundreds of seats? And of course, it'll be Walsall reported for YOUR pitch invasion. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Walsall fans to have the passion to bring nearly 4000 people to a place like Walsall on a Tuesday night (I'd love them to bring 400 on a Tuesday night! :wink: ), but what makes you think you can go around damaging other teams stadia?

I think Leeds will go up this season, the difference in class told with the late winner. Before then, two average sides had fought a fairly even contest with just a couple of players on either side (Beckford and Becchio, Smith, Hughes and Jones from Walsall) standing out. We lack that touch of class in the centre of midfield (it might have been a different game had Richards stayed on - it was the first time I've seen him and he was composed on the ball and had a good left foot, being at the heart of everything good we did in a decent first half hour. We became scrappier once he went off) and pace and poaching ability up front. I'd like have seen Nicholls given half an hour up top last night. For what it is worth, this isn't a slight on Parkin or Deeney - both worked their socks off and gave the centre-halves a tough going over. I'm certainly not going to join the anti-Parkin camp at this stage, I think he has something about him but it too alike Deeney.

A great save from Incey was met by a prolonged ovation from the home fans, who I'm afraid I must criticise again. Cast your minds back, even to when Bolton played us in the League Cup a few years ago, when we used to concede a late goal in a big game there would be a crescendo of noise, willing the lads to pull it back. Last night, as deflated as we all felt when Leeds scored, everyone just got up and left "because of the traffic". Not good enough, Saddlers fans.

So many more positives than negatives last night. Were I Hutch, I'd have sat the players down and told them that they have outbattled and outperformed the biggest and best side in the division (and they are, comfortably) for 75 minutes. It is a big achievement for a team who is only in its third game together. There is nothing to fear in this division, and I am still absurdly confident about our chances this season. A classier midfielder who knows when to hold on to the ball and a pacy striker (who we might already have) would have been the winning difference for us last night.

That happened last night?

Seats broken?

I smell business

Cash up front though

:mrgreen:

[Wyrley_saddler]

I'd give Grigg a run out at Charlton. We need a cutting edge upfront. I don't think we're suffering from a lack of creativity. More of a lack of getting someone on the end of the chances. The amount of times last night that Jones got the ball in the box to find no one there but Till coming in too late was frustrating.

[Macca]

Last night was the first time ive seen any of the team this season.

It's quite evident that were going to be ok at the back but lack that extra something upfront.

I was very impressed by Westlake, Smith, Hughes and Jones.

We missed Mattis in the middle badly last night and when richards went off. Bradley just isn't going to make the grade im afraid, the game just passes him far too much.

Parkin sometimes needs to look around him more often, on a few occastions he had a couple of yards space but just decided to flick it onto nowhere instead of bring the ball down and playing it to someones feet.

Nicholls needed to be brought on earlier than he did for Till instead of Jones. Till just ran into blocked lanes all night and never used the space that was there. I was also dissappointed by the lack of support from the fullbacks given to the wingers. On a number of occasions there was a chance of them to go on the overlap but they never moved and we ended up going in field and losing the ball.

The ref bottled a few decisions aswell. First half there defender hacked denney down and was last man, never gave anything. And also was i the only one that saw Beckford kick out at Jones when they both went down and again did nothing.

Overall decent performance, we just lack that cutting edge yet again!!

[Stan Bennett]

I agree that I felt the ref missed a few things last night. I think it was Parkin who was bundled over in the first half- from the FTG stand it looked like it was by the last man - had they been down to 10 men then it would have been very different. Parkin won a great deal more last night but I am still unconvinced. I have not been that impressed by Till this season, he works hard, puts in lots of effort but I have not seen that much end product, with chances at such a premium, we have got to make sure our attacking players really add. Manny, Jones, Hughes and Westlake all did really well, and also Deeney ran his socks off.

[sid swifty]

This is it my fellow Saddlers our cup final :roll:

our Visitors start to the season.

Exeter - home- won 2-1- L1
Darington - away - won 1-0 - CC
Wycombe- away - won - 1-0 - L1


Prediction 1-1

Deeney on target .

It was our cup final Dave,and it will be our biggest attendance of the season,why do you think there were so many people there last night,to see Walsall?.... :D ....could do with another 8 or 9 of those pay days mate.

[scott_powell]

I've been reading a few posts and people seem to think we deserved something out the game :? I don't think we did. Yes we held our shape well at times but we were outplayed and on chances they deserved to win. (i hate to say it)

But i thought there were many positives to take out the game .... Firstly being manny smith and hughes. I couldn't fault them tonight. After seeing 3 league games now i am pretty confident with our defence. Very solid.

Another positive was jones and till. They have that pace we have really been lacking in recent seasons and like to run at defenders which is good to see.

There were also some negatives. First being parkin.(enough said) Second being our midfield. When richards was on i thought we looked decent in midfield. He was fighting for everything and not giving them a sniff(thats where we missed mattis too), but bradley offered nothing there. No creativity. No fight. No desire to keep the ball. We really missed mattis and richards

Overall it was a decent game, but you could see what we are lacking. A goalscorer and a midfielder

As for people saying that the ref missed a few things :? What exactly? He refereed the game superbly i thought. Take the walsall glasses off

[Wyrley_saddler]

I've been reading a few posts and people seem to think we deserved something out the game :? I don't think we did. Yes we held our shape well at times but we were outplayed and on chances they deserved to win. (i hate to say it)

But i thought there were many positives to take out the game .... Firstly being manny smith and hughes. I couldn't fault them tonight. After seeing 3 league games now i am pretty confident with our defence. Very solid.

Another positive was jones and till. They have that pace we have really been lacking in recent seasons and like to run at defenders which is good to see.

There were also some negatives. First being parkin.(enough said) Second being our midfield. When richards was on i thought we looked decent in midfield. He was fighting for everything and not giving them a sniff(thats where we missed mattis too), but bradley offered nothing there. No creativity. No fight. No desire to keep the ball. We really missed mattis and richards

Overall it was a decent game, but you could see what we are lacking. A goalscorer and a midfielder

As for people saying that the ref missed a few things :? What exactly? He refereed the game superbly i thought. Take the walsall glasses off

People like you forget that football isn't just about attacking and scoring goals. Just because Leeds had more possesion doesn't mean they deserved to win. Our defence was fantastic most of the night last night. Most of the shots from Leeds were from miles out because we stopped them getting close to the goal.

[scott_powell]

I've been reading a few posts and people seem to think we deserved something out the game :? I don't think we did. Yes we held our shape well at times but we were outplayed and on chances they deserved to win. (i hate to say it)

But i thought there were many positives to take out the game .... Firstly being manny smith and hughes. I couldn't fault them tonight. After seeing 3 league games now i am pretty confident with our defence. Very solid.

Another positive was jones and till. They have that pace we have really been lacking in recent seasons and like to run at defenders which is good to see.

There were also some negatives. First being parkin.(enough said) Second being our midfield. When richards was on i thought we looked decent in midfield. He was fighting for everything and not giving them a sniff(thats where we missed mattis too), but bradley offered nothing there. No creativity. No fight. No desire to keep the ball. We really missed mattis and richards

Overall it was a decent game, but you could see what we are lacking. A goalscorer and a midfielder

As for people saying that the ref missed a few things :? What exactly? He refereed the game superbly i thought. Take the walsall glasses off

People like you forget that football isn't just about attacking and scoring goals. Just because Leeds had more possesion doesn't mean they deserved to win. Our defence was fantastic most of the night last night. Most of the shots from Leeds were from miles out because we stopped them getting close to the goal.

Well if you read carefully i praise the defence. We didn't deserve to win. It's a fact. I hate to say they deserved it because i can't stand Leeds but sometimes you just have to say so.

[addo]

But we have plenty of pace on the wings, whose job is to get behind the defence and get crosses in and they are just not doing it, mainly because they are starting too deep. How many times did a winger get a cross in from the byline in either game? I suspect the answer is none.

Didn't Jones do that 3 or 4 times last night ?

[addo]

I also am not sure exactly what Bradley gives us - apart from energy.

To be fair to him last night though it did look like he had a tooth knocked out in a challenge during the first half -around the same time that Richards went off.

[scott_powell]

But we have plenty of pace on the wings, whose job is to get behind the defence and get crosses in and they are just not doing it, mainly because they are starting too deep. How many times did a winger get a cross in from the byline in either game? I suspect the answer is none.

Didn't Jones do that 3 or 4 times last night ?

He put in some decent balls yesterday. Shame we don't have a goalscorer

[saddlerJP]

jones was getting to the byline looking up to see no walsall players in the leeds box at all. Very impressed with jones, the only attacking player to try to take the game by the scruff of the neck and have a go. Got some pace for an old bloke as well!!!

[Duke]

But we have plenty of pace on the wings, whose job is to get behind the defence and get crosses in and they are just not doing it, mainly because they are starting too deep. How many times did a winger get a cross in from the byline in either game? I suspect the answer is none.

Didn't Jones do that 3 or 4 times last night ?

he did ,problem is no shirts were at the end of them