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Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Reports and reaction from the 2008-09 season as Walsall finished 13th in League 1
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Wyrley_saddler
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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:12 am

ShyTallKnight wrote:
Exile wrote:Nothing to play for, bit of an experiment, five goals and nowt riding on the result. Excellent way for Marty & Hutch to work out what doesn't work with the first team before trying the rest of the squad.


So what did he learn from his experiment/s? So what did he learn about his players that was new and not already apparent from the rest of the season? I am very angry at the manager who watched as the team completely disintegrated and did nothing for 30 mins. I am very angry with the players who simply collapsed at the first sign of pressure. Most of all I am very angry with myself for renewing my season ticket. That second half was a disgusting performance. For me the jury is still out on Hutch.



Hopefully he learnt
1) Gilmartin isn't good enough
2) Ricketts can't play in the AM role
3) We miss Mattis when he doesn't play
4) This dodgey formation leaves Weston exposed as we play with two CM's and one LM but no RM



Just seen the goals
First - Gilmartin should have saved with ease
Second - He should have come and claimed the cross (Ince would have)
Third - For a lad of his height, he should be doing better with it.

oh and congrats to Jabo for his 50th career goal

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Plastic Hawk
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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:58 am

geoffwhiting wrote:Well what a crazy result and a diabolical give-away - AGAIN ! :evil:

I've been listening in from Wales on Saddlers World, and the moment that Gilmartin dropped that awful clanger I said to my wife "watch now how that changes the game. Huddersfield have done nothing, and they'll be really lifted by the gift they've just been given."

Never a truer word. It's a diabolical surrender - AGAIN - and I was not surprised in the slightest !

What the hell was Gilmartin doing in goal when Ince was back and sitting on the bench? A ludicrous decision IMHO, and it's started the rot that cost us three points. :x


Showing what he can do (or not do) in a game with nothing at stake presumably. Better to find out that he's not good enough now, rather than next season when there's something to play for. No point bringing Ince back at this stage. In fact, I'd have rather seen several other kids in the side. We haven't seen much of Taundry or Sansara under Hutchings. Today was a perfect chance to give them 90 minutes more experience (and to have Craddock, Grigg, Davies etc on the bench to come on later and get a taste of league football).

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Plastic Hawk
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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:02 pm

King Crimson wrote:The brief second half 'experiment' of playing Ricketts in the middle, with Bradley out right and Deeney and Ibehre up front was bizarre, and cost us - but at least we changed back later on. Some players had good games, and didn't deserve to end up on the losing side. I thought Weston, Gerrard, Ibehre and Hughes were all good, Smith and Zaaboub OK. Palmer, Ricketts, Bradley and Gilmartin were less good.

Palmer went AWOL for their second, and didn't prevent the cross for the first. Gilmartin was shakey, Ricketts and Bradley just failed to get a foothold.

Good job nowt rested on it.


In fairness to Palmer, who was getting a lot of stick over that goal, I think (without having seen the replay) that, even though he was wandering about before the corner was taken, he was actually correctly positioned on the far post by the time the header came in and it went to his right side (i.e. not between him and the post). So, I'm not actually sure what he could have done differently given that the header was from point blank range. It was the keeper's ball and that should've been the end of the matter.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:28 pm

Wyrley_saddler wrote:
ShyTallKnight wrote:
Exile wrote:Nothing to play for, bit of an experiment, five goals and nowt riding on the result. Excellent way for Marty & Hutch to work out what doesn't work with the first team before trying the rest of the squad.


So what did he learn from his experiment/s? So what did he learn about his players that was new and not already apparent from the rest of the season? I am very angry at the manager who watched as the team completely disintegrated and did nothing for 30 mins. I am very angry with the players who simply collapsed at the first sign of pressure. Most of all I am very angry with myself for renewing my season ticket. That second half was a disgusting performance. For me the jury is still out on Hutch.



Hopefully he learnt
1) Gilmartin isn't good enough
2) Ricketts can't play in the AM role
3) We miss Mattis when he doesn't play
4) This dodgey formation leaves Weston exposed as we play with two CM's and one LM but no RM



Just seen the goals
First - Gilmartin should have saved with ease
Second - He should have come and claimed the cross (Ince would have)
Third - For a lad of his height, he should be doing better with it.

oh and congrats to Jabo for his 50th career goal


So he learned nothing that people with an average knowledge of the team/players didn't already know! Hutch should have either done the 'experimental' job properly and bloodied a few of the younger players etc or try to win the game per Tranmere/Huddersfield. Totally botched.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:57 pm

Wyrley_saddler wrote:Weston - 7 - Solid, but did struggle at times with us not having a right winger.
Palmer - 7 -Good again from him!!!

Bradley - 6 - Non existant
Hughes - 7 - Got in their faces but was caught for pace and out of position on a couple of occasions.
Ricketts - 4 - Woeful. He can't play in this role.
Jabo - 9 - MOTM. Big and strong upfront and deserved his 2 goals, constants threat.
Deeney - 7 - Struggled with a lack of service to him.

EDIT: As for the tactics, why the hell do we have a left winger but not a right winger???


I'm just going to pick up on a few things from there to make a wider point.

Weston - 7? Did well coming forward in the first half, linking well with Bradley, Hughes and Ricketts. He did this by playing short, simple passes along the floor. It isn't as if he can't do it, but he seems to panic when the game is going against us. As soon as we conceded, he resorted to type and started launching hoof-balls up-field which took Bradley, Ricketts and Hughes out of the game totally, and meant that Deeney and Jabo couldn't continue with the same verve they had in the first half. Also, he was caught out often by balls over the top, and this seems to be an increasingly common occurence. He didn't struggle not having a right winger, because when he was playing it short he had Ricketts, Bradley, Jabo and Deeney all pulling shifts on the right flank. But by knocking it long he exposed this space. 8 for the first half, 4 in the second.

Palmer - 7? See Weston. But I'll let him off, he's not a full-back.

Bradley - 6 and Hughes - 7? Bradley wasn't non-existant. He worked very hard on the right getting forward in support of the strikers and in defence in the first half, but again, he was exposed by the change in tactics. Hughes look good when the defence bring him into the game. The onus is on them to see him in the space he creates for himself. Again, I thought he was excellent in the first half and was by-passed in the second half by the shift in tactics.

Ricketts can play in this role. He isn't lazy. He is made to look lazy when we play long balls to a front three when they have shown their strengths in other positions in the first half. He came deep often, and took a centre half with him every time which opened the space for Jabo and Deeney to expose the other centre back and the full backs. He was a threat arriving late in the box, and this caused a few half chances to be created and confusion to be caused. You can't play long balls towards him - when will we learn? He brought so many players into the action in the first half, and I'd love to see the statistical difference between first half and second. In the first half, Ricketts' free role gave Bradley and Zaboob in particular the opportunity to drift inside and outside. I'm afraid I think the majority opinion of Ricketts yesterday is totally wrong.

Jabo showed something I haven't seen him do since Yeovil on the opening day - he played right on the shoulders of the opposition and gave the centre backs and left back a torrid time. It is the first time since August I have seen a defence scared of him, and he needs to do this more often. Again, the shift in tactics in the second half took this from his armoury, and it is no coincidence that he did nothing in the second half.

Deeney worked hard and harried well. He took a leaf from Ricketts book and dropped deep, taking a defender with him opening up more space in the middle of the pitch.

Please Hutch - persist with the tactics in the first half, and get rid of the full backs in they can't play a simple pass on the grass not in the air. As Cloughie said, if God had wanted us to play football in the air, he'd have put grass there.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:08 pm

Our full backs are definitely our weak points, even if Weston and Boertien are playing there. Fed up with older players seeing out their years and playing like they don't care. Either put some effort in or pee off.

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geoffwhiting
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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:38 pm

Plastic Hawk wrote:
geoffwhiting wrote:Well what a crazy result and a diabolical give-away - AGAIN ! :evil:

I've been listening in from Wales on Saddlers World, and the moment that Gilmartin dropped that awful clanger I said to my wife "watch now how that changes the game. Huddersfield have done nothing, and they'll be really lifted by the gift they've just been given."

Never a truer word. It's a diabolical surrender - AGAIN - and I was not surprised in the slightest !

What the hell was Gilmartin doing in goal when Ince was back and sitting on the bench? A ludicrous decision IMHO, and it's started the rot that cost us three points. :x


Showing what he can do (or not do) in a game with nothing at stake presumably. Better to find out that he's not good enough now, rather than next season when there's something to play for. No point bringing Ince back at this stage. In fact, I'd have rather seen several other kids in the side. We haven't seen much of Taundry or Sansara under Hutchings. Today was a perfect chance to give them 90 minutes more experience (and to have Craddock, Grigg, Davies etc on the bench to come on later and get a taste of league football).


Excuse me for expecting better, but don't I recall Hutch saying he wanted to finish the season well and put as many points on the board as possible? I don't think this is the way to go about it, and I'm glad I'm not wasting my money these days on watching us putting out understrength sides and frustrating the hell out of a good proportion of the fans. Happily I was able to listen in on Saddlers World while basking in the sun at my place near Conway, and as far as yesterday's debacle is concerned, I can console myself quite nicely with that! :D

Meanwhile, Hutch and Co are giving us a whimpering faltering end to the season, which is not what the fans need to give them encouragement that better things lie ahead next season.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:09 pm

We are definetely going out with a whimper - two home defeats with no fight in the team,hardly a great end to a mediocre season.

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:19 pm

Louise wrote:We are definetely going out with a whimper - two home defeats with no fight in the team,hardly a great end to a mediocre season.


Exactly Louise, and I doubt if the majority of fans see it as a plus, even though some people on here have the view that it's giving Hutch the chance to give some fringe players/youngsters some first team experience. It's a view which I respect, but don't actually agree with, as I think the fans want to see us go out with a bang, not a whimper and a whole list of excuses for a closing run of poor results.

Frankly, Hutch should be sufficiently qualified to judge his players from day-to-day contact and training sessions and make his decisions on his retained list from there. Then, the players that he judges to be good enough will be there next season with the knowledge that they are uppermost in his thoughts, and they can play in a (hopefully) successful, motivated and confident team that can give them the experience they need, maybe from the bench at first but that's the way it is.

I don't think that youngsters and fringe players benefit much from being thrown into games like yesterday. It hardly builds morale or confidence to know that you were involved in a game that was won after 42 minutes and then thrown away thereafter through self-inflicted errors. Yet there are those who want to see even more youngsters in the composition of the side. Well I'm sure that no player enjoys or benefits from getting stuffed out there on the pitch, and that's what you're asking for if you resort to a "nothing to play for so send out the kids" attitude. :?

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:40 am

geoffwhiting wrote:I think the fans want to see us go out with a bang, not a whimper and a whole list of excuses for a closing run of poor results.

That's possible, if you're a fan who turns up for that 90-minute weekly fix and expects the team to be there, regardless. Haven't seen the club make any excuses for Saturday though, only people here.

geoffwhiting wrote:Hutch should be sufficiently qualified to judge his players from day-to-day contact and training sessions and make his decisions ... from there

Also possibly true, but surely there is no substitute for game time - the only opportunity all our players have to display their skills in the fighting environment.

geoffwhiting wrote:It hardly builds morale or confidence to know that you were involved in a game that was won after 42 minutes and then thrown away thereafter through self-inflicted errors

Depends how responsible you feel, how guilty you feel, how hard-done by you feel and certainly on how you were debriefed after the game by The Boss. On the one hand, Geoff, you say you want the best team possible fielded, yet on the other you expect that if the kids should play they must be hung out to dry after a defeat, affecting their morale or confidence. How about letting them decide how they've played, or letting the manager decide if they're good enough - he does, after all, see them all week in training.

Appreciate you weren't there, but did you see the team sheet for Saturday?....

geoffwhiting wrote:no player enjoys or benefits from getting stuffed out there on the pitch, and that's what you're asking for if you resort to a "nothing to play for so send out the kids" attitude.

and
geoffwhiting wrote:some people on here have the view that it's giving Hutch the chance to give some fringe players/youngsters some first team experience

Look at Saturday's starting XI and tell me that was a kids/fringe/weak team by Walsall standards? No way:
21 Gilmartin
5 Gerrard
7 Palmer
20 Smith
2 Weston
11 Zaaboub
12 Bradley
6 Hughes
9 Ibehre
19 Deeney
10 Ricketts
subs: Ince Taundry Boertien Mattis Nicholls

All the starters and bench have had experience this season - shedloads in most cases.

The team we sent out lost fair and square in their Walsall shirts, not because they were fringe, or second best, or young, but because on the day they weren't good enough, or didn't follow tactics, or thought themselves it was a nothing game. I sincerely hope the players involved really didn't enjoy getting "stuffed", as I know the fans (self included) didn't. That's the part I'm disappointed in, personally. All of them have had enough game time to know they ought to harden up and bounce back though.

In the next few games I'd love to see some of our "younger", "weaker" "fringe" players on the pitch - they can't do worse than Saturday. :wink:

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Re: Huddersfield Town (H) League 1 Saturday 18/4/09.

Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:01 pm

I've been on holiday, so I've only just had chance to read the post match comments today.
For what it's worth, I agree with the general consensus on here - the manner in which we've been beaten in the last 2 games is unacceptable, no matter what stage of the season we're in.

We showed just how soft we were on Saturday. A side striving for success at this level would have had that killer instinct and seen the result through when we were 2-0 up and cruising. Instead, we gave away two hurrendously awful goals in the space of a couple of minutes and from that point on, there was only going to be one winner. When Jabo scored his second goal, we were cruising and they were all over the shop. Yet again, individual mistakes from players who shouldn't be near the first team gave them the belief that they could get something, and rightly so.

Gilmartin isn't good enough. He's a decent lad, really wants to be a pro footballer and tries his best. Unfortunately however, he just isn't good enough. In our last 2 games he's made 2 errors. That's unacceptable. The only plus point I can see from Saturday's game is that I'd rather surrender 3 points and learn that he's not good enough now, rather than go into next season with him as the number 1 choice. We'll be in big trouble if that's the case.

The new system worked a treat in the first half, but not in the second. Why? Probably because they changed things around to reduce the amount of space we had in midfield, while we did nothing. Hutchings should probably look back on that and wonder if he could have changed things to salvage at least a point from the game.

In terms of contracts for next season, Jabo is a must-keep. He gives defenders nightmares as long as you give him the service.

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