Hartlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday18/10/08

[geoffwhiting]

Just goes to show, one against-all-odds 9-man backs-to-the-wall triumph doth not a season make, no matter how heart-on-sleeve emotional he was afterwards!

Embarrassing is how it looks tonight, and the cheap option has been well and truly exposed over these two winnable home games. :x

[saddlerken]

Just goes to show, one against-all-odds 9-man backs-to-the-wall triumph doth not a season make, no matter how heart-on-sleeve emotional he was afterwards!

Embarrassing is how it looks tonight, and the cheap option has been well and truly exposed over these two winnable home games. :x

You dont go, how would you know?

[geoffwhiting]

Well there must have been a stark difference between the quality of Danny Wilson's half-time team talk and that of our own (cheap option) Jimmy Mullen. Seems we might now be in the middle of a run of four straight defeats, and not a lot of surprises for me in that.

I'm afraid not, it was down to us

Why are you not surprised? You dont go

If we had attacked 2nd half Hartlepool we won have walked it
Hartlepool are a very very bad team

Precisely, but we didn't did we? Half-time pep talk a bit lacking maybe? Who's job was that then?

And I'm not surprised because, although I don't go, I listen, I take notice, and I easily know a cheap option when one is put under my nose. :D

[Goose277]

Very, very disappointing. Both Mullen and the team ought to hang their heads in shame after that debacle. We weren't exactly great in the first half but we deserved to be in front at the break. What happened next was just a surrender, plain and simple. We seemed content to sit back and let them have as much possession as they wanted and you could actually see them growing more and more confident by the minute. We needed an outlet before they scored their first goal, someone to take the pressure off us and put them on the back foot, someone like Ishy. I told my lad that at least we'd see Ishy on the pitch after they scored their first but no, Mullen didn't seem to know what to do. I think he figured it out with 2 minutes to go but I was on my way to the car by then and I very rarely leave early.

[saddlerken]

smug and childish

Money for example would have sat back but would have had a better organised defence if Money is not a chaeap option, which, btw he was

If you are quite happy that we lost then continue to stay away

[caldy]

IMO there was only Taundry running in midfield. Will this finally make Mullen realise we need a centre half. For me the Manager threw away 3 points with bad tactics. They seemed stiffled second half as if they were told not to go over the half way line allowing them to just keep coming. If Kyle was a half decent striker it could have been a lot worse.

[motty]

fuming
few points before i drown my sorrows

Mullen tactically inpet

Palmer = rubbish, gorra gew
Roberts = as above
Mattis, what does he do exactly? I've been wondering for some time, someone tell me
The substitution were all wrong and all at the wrong time

We cannot defend under Mullen and Schofield so why we expect to keep ANYONE out if we sit back is absolutely amazing to me, if the only thing we can do is attack then thats what we must do

Utterly utterly diabaolical

the thought has crossed my mind many a time runs round like a prat making poor passes and occasionly tackling someone

[Four Oaks Saddler]

A defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. That is all, for now.

I need another drink.

[WFC_Rob]

Caldy - Taundry was doing a lot of running, yes. But what else did he contribute? In the first half, I thought he did OK. In the second half however, he was hiding for most of it. He's a good player and a decent lad to have around the squad, but I'm still not sure he's good enough to be considered an integral part of the first team, which brings me onto my main point regarding today's game....


Why are there some players in the first team who are untouchable no matter how badly they're playing? That's a rhetorical question of sorts because I know full well that the current squad is so weak it's unreal. We don't have enough to get by when we have 1 or 2 players missing.
Palmer was awful if you take away his deliveries from corners. Absolutely terrible. He never looked to get his foot on the ball, so just looked like a nervous boy playing amongst men.
Deeney looked like he hdn't got a clue what he was supposed to be doing in the second half.
We also missed Hughes big time. His sheer discipline means that we don't get hit so hard on the break when he's in the side. Without him, we look unbelievably vulnerable both with the ball and without it.

Rather than taking Weston off for Bradley and moving Taundry to right back, why didn't we just do a straight swap - Taundry off, Bradley on. Weston wasn't having the best game of his life by any means, but he's a lot better defensively than any of the other possible replacements.

Jabo was knackered with about 30 minutes to go. Given that he hadn't trained all week, that was always going to happen. Why was he not replaced when we were in a position of advantage?
And as we were hopeless down the left hand side, why didn't Ishmel come on before the 4 minutes of stoppage time?

All these questions come as a result of occurrences in today's game which were beyond belief, frankly.

[boringteacher]

complete and utter poo. I was ashamed to be a Saddler by the end of the game. Gutless (team) and inept (Mullen). He hasn't got a clue on how to change the course of a game - I give him until Easter if he's lucky. Time for another Grolsch

[bleed_red_n_white]

IMO there was only Taundry running in midfield. Will this finally make Mullen realise we need a centre half. For me the Manager threw away 3 points with bad tactics. They seemed stiffled second half as if they were told not to go over the half way line allowing them to just keep coming. If Kyle was a half decent striker it could have been a lot worse.

Got to disagree, taundry, ok he battles, he makes a few challeneges but to what effect nothing, which is no good to us, Deeney was/is terrible, palmer as mentiond somewhere above is like having a 13 yr old on the pitch, surely with reich on we couldnt of done any worse.

[ShropsSaddler]

Pretty much agree with the fact that we lost it, they didn't win it. Absolutely shocking performance second half and Mr Mullen did little to try and change things around. To say he is "out of his depth" is just stupid because he has clearly managed at this level before. But he was tactically inept today.

Just a few points to make;

Deeney v Ricketts - one of these has that extra little bit of pace when it REALLY matters and the other has it only when it doesn't matter! Fairly obvious which is which I think?!?
Ricketts and Ibehre - the loss was as much down to them as anyone else in the team. They switched off 2nd half having "done their bit". Consequently the ball never stuck up front and pressure was invited upon us.
Taundry AND Mattis - both did plenty of running, both to little effect and with little shape to their play
Weston - a shocking performance (although he was not supported by Deeney at all!) culminating in his apparent mistake for the 2nd goal when it certainly seemed to me that he failed to give Roberts a call and tell him to leave the ball.
Roberts - of course, everyone's on his back again! Not one of his better games for us but he was not directly at fault for any of the goals. Both he and Gerrard were left exposed by poor defending from the full-backs and midfield.
Demontagnac - the farce regarding his appearance is unforgiveable. We KNOW the lad has a suspect temperament. So WHAT purpose could it possibly serve to keep him waiting and waiting, sit him down, get him back up again and then finally ask him to go on and change the match in injury time? I've not had much sympathy for the lad in the past but that was downright insulting and if he'd gone on and got himself sent off, for once the blame would have been solely with the manager.

[tinned]

To say he is "out of his depth" is just stupid because he has clearly managed at this level before.

That's like saying Thatcher wouldn't be out of her depth as PM now because she's done it before.
Just face it, Whatever Mullen has dome is a very long time ago, and he ain't got a clue how to find it now.

[BEIRLYND]

Mullen said on WM Monday that loans players would expect to play. Well he has an excuse to drop any of our players now. Bring-in 3 defenders quickly. Weston, Roberts, Palmer & Boertien could all be relaced following their performance today and against Peterboorough

[ShropsSaddler]

Mullen said on WM Monday that loans players would expect to play. Well he has an excuse to drop any of our players now. Bring-in 3 defenders quickly. Weston, Roberts, Palmer & Boertien could all be relaced following their performance today and against Peterboorough

But then again, perhaps the players in bold would be absolutely fine if they were to be at all protected by the feeble midfield we put out today. You can't blame poor defending just on defenders. It starts with the attackers, who failed to put in a shift after half-time, and continues through the midfield, who failed to mark and close down their men.

Goal 1 - Weston left totally exposed with a 1 v 2 situation

Goal 2 - mistake by Weston in not giving Roberts a call

Goal 3 - no protection from the midfield in the build-up

[Asps]

Mullen & Deeney to blame.

Everyone in the ground could see what was happening: Pool all over us and Mullen did nothing about it until it was too late.

Deeney missed that absolute sitter to make 3-0 and that would have been game over. He can run around & huff & puff all he wants but he cannot score goals. 1 goal in 50 appearances is shocking for predominantly a player in a striking role.

His not good enough, he's had time enough, get rid now. Loan him out until his contract expires, he's a waste of space.

Lets get some quality loan players in quick to refresh things,

[Plastic Hawk]

My God - that was an absolutely shambolic display tactically. Hartlepool were rubbish and gifted us a two goal lead. We really should have gone on to win more comfortably, but instead contrived to throw it away.

Selection was a joke today: the midfield made me laugh when I heard it before the game, all three subs were totally wrong and it's simply inexcusable for a professional side to throw a two goal lead away so late in the game (even to draw, let alone to lose).

Can someone tell me what Palmer actually does except take corners? He's a shocking full back at League 1 level and didn't look to offer anything at all on the wing today. Yet he seems to be immune from being dropped or subbed. He was shifted into midfield today when Ishmel deserved a chance to prove himself - and then moved back to full back when Ishmel eventually came on.

Is Troy Deeney really our best option on the right? If so, then why? The lad is a raw, young centre forward. He surely can't have been pencilled in even to be the second choice in that position at the start of the season. What's happened to the players who should have been ahead of them?

Why leave Jabo on when we're 2-0 up at half time, he's not trained for most of the week and we have a ready-made replacement on the wing? We didn't need three strikers on the pitch second half. He should have put Bradley on, shifted Deeney up front and Taundry to the right flank (where you know he'll support Weston and keep possession for the side). We must have known that Hartlepool would come out all guns blazing, yet we did nothing at all to prepare for that.

Why take Weston off? Bring Bradley on by all means, but just take a central midfielder off. Weston is a far better right back than RT, especially in the air, so leave him there - don't haul him off. If anyone can suggest one sensible reason (long throws isn't sensible) for preferring Taundry to Weston then I'd be interested to know what they are.

Why take Deeney off for Nicholls at 2-1? Deeney is better defensively than Nicholls and he's a factor from set pieces at both ends. The winning goal came from a header on the far post after the manager had removed two players who are strong in the air from our right flank and replaced them with dwarves.

Why leave Ishmel standing kitted up and ready to go in the dug out for five minutes when time is running out? There were several chances to get him on sooner, but it was left until there was barely any time at all left. Did he even touch the ball?

Why have we only got two senior centre backs? Roberts is generally solid, but incredibly gaffe prone. Yet we can't take him out because Smith is far too inexperienced.

Why don't we have a sensible option to Hughes in central midfield (one that can actually have an impact on the game, rather than running around a lot, tackling anything that moves but generally being passed by by the game)? Remember Hughes was signed incredibly late - so what was the plan if he'd chosen someone else.

All managers have "favourites" - it's inevitable as everyone sees players differently. But not only are Mullen's favourites (Palmer, Taundry, Sansara) weaker than the players who he has routinely preferred them over (Weston, Boertien, Bradley), but he's also preferred to shuffle several players around just to accomodate a place on the pitch for Palmer. Further, Weston and Boertien especially are model pros with experience at a higher level - exactly the players that he ought to be looking at to be leaders, not alienating by mucking them about.

Why did our pre-season leave us looking like a pub team for the first few games of the season? I'm still not convinced that fitness is sorted. We take a long time to get going (admittedly today was an exception with the early goals) and don't tend to finish strongly either. Do we do anything other than practice set pieces in training?

All of the above are the responsibility of the manager. Mullen appears to be a good motivator (we've got a reaction after every defeat so far this season - and the first half today was no exception). But that's not enough. To be a manager you need some degree of tactical awareness. So far I'm yet to see that JM has this. We always set up the same way, we don't make game changing subs (either to hold a lead or to save a game we're losing) and we don't react to the opposition's changes.

[Plastic Hawk]

fuming
few points before i drown my sorrows

Mullen tactically inpet

Palmer = rubbish, gorra gew
Roberts = as above
Mattis, what does he do exactly? I've been wondering for some time, someone tell me
The substitution were all wrong and all at the wrong time

We cannot defend under Mullen and Schofield so why we expect to keep ANYONE out if we sit back is absolutely amazing to me, if the only thing we can do is attack then thats what we must do

Utterly utterly diabaolical

the thought has crossed my mind many a time runs round like a prat making poor passes and occasionly tackling someone

Surely, that's Taundry, isn't it?

Or is criticism of him still banned because he's a local lad?

[Plastic Hawk]

Oh, and for the second week in a row, why on Earth was Jabo man of the match? He's won it in every single home game except the one when Ishmel scored a hat-trick. Now, he's had a good season - but not that good. He was the worst player on the pitch last week and this week he was good, but not outstanding, first half and poor after the break.

We might as well just give him the Player of the Season award now... :roll: :roll:

[Whitti Steve]

Really struggling to be bothered tonight... possibly the worst second half display I have seen in years. Shambolic capitulation!

[Duke]

Didn't ,make the game today struggling to shake off a stinking head cold , can't comment on the performance but to throw away a 2 lead is very very disappointing and unforgivable .

The warning signs are there for all to see .

[King Crimson]

I think PH has it spot on for me. This game has crystallised my thoughts about Mullen, the squad and why we're set for an average but not great season.

Mullen - No 'Plan B', he's never had one, since the last time Hartlepool rolled into town and we conspired to draw from a 2-goal advantage to today. He seems paralysed when the game changes around him. Everyone could see the game changed from half time, drastically so from about 55 minutes, and irreversably so (without changes) by 70 minutes. All those around me were screaming for changes - any changes - to freshen things up, or shore things up. None were forthcoming. He may as well give the team sheet to Stafflers and get back in his car and listen to the game on WM. He does nothing.

For the Taundry apologists, I'd love to know in what way he meaningfully contributed today. I await answers involving phrases like 'runs his socks off', 'he's only learning his trade', 'there were worse players out there'. At the moment, he ain't good enough and, as WFC Rob says, he seems almost immune from substitution by Mullen.

On the subject of not good enough, add other kids who are makeweights to the side - Deeney and Nicholls. Deeney's miss in the second half was the defining moment. At 3-0 we were home and dry.

Mattis did OK, good assist, but the game went away from him. Boertien was OK too. Jabo and Ricketts have quality. But the kids aren't alright. We are poorly balanced and poorly led.

One manager earned his salary this afternoon. It wasn't ours.

I am not happy.

[Duke]

What's the news on Hughes , injured , dropped or rested for Leicester ?

At least we made Jeff Stirling's day , that was only Harlepools 3rd away win in 23 attempts.
says it all

[Exile]

That result was shameful.

[cal wfc fan]

Ok, I dont confess to being an expert of the game of football, (I am a female afterall), but even I can not understand some of the selection choices being made.
When we played Southend and Ishy was in the starting line up we won with Ishy scoring a hat trick, since then I don't think JM has started him, why not? I know he has a reputation of being a bit hot headed and I have thought in the past that he is slightly over rated, however, I have also come to the conclustion that he may be so fed up of being left on the bench until the last few mins of every game, and then bought on and then expected to be a hero and change the game, that he never gets chance to get into the game and prove himself. I also have to agree with everything PH wrote earlier.

[Neuromantic]

I have been critical of Ishmel in the past but to play a right back on the left wing instead of him is truly horrific. To not play Marco Reich; and play Troy Deeney for me is an absolutely ridiculous way of going about things. Please tell me if im being an idiot... but is:

Ishmel Bradley Mattis Reich

better than:

Palmer Mattis Taundry Deeney


Am I missing something ????? :evil:

[belgiansaddler]

possibly Bangor, but you weren't the most qualified person for the job :wink:

onwards and errrr upwards?? :?

We'll stuff Leicester :wink:

[moaning saddler]

Absolute cack - the 3rd successive game in which we have been a total embarrassment in the 2nd half.

One particular passage of play summed up exactly why Taundry is currently way out of his depth : Saddlers corner in the 2nd half, cleared to the half way line.Taundry had stayed back and took the responsibility for dealing with the clearance. Inevitably, he contrived to lose possession. Moments later, the ball had been worked down the gaping hole on our right hand side and Ince was picking the ball out of the net. 2-1, and the game had completely swung to Hartlepool.
He has the makings of a decent player, but at the moment he is a liability on the pitch.

[Plastic Hawk]

I have been critical of Ishmel in the past but to play a right back on the left wing instead of him is truly horrific. To not play Marco Reich; and play Troy Deeney for me is an absolutely ridiculous way of going about things. Please tell me if im being an idiot... but is:

Ishmel Bradley Mattis Reich

better than:

Palmer Mattis Taundry Deeney


Am I missing something ????? :evil:

I'm not sure if you've been getting back for the games since going to Uni, but Reich can't have any complaints about being dropped after last week's performance. He was a disgrace: couldn't be bothered to run or to show for the ball. Basically as lazy as I've ever see a professional footballer.

Your basic point is right though: if a raw young centre forward is our best option on the right then something is badly wrong.

(And Ishmel should clearly have played ahead of Palmer.)

[Chomper]

So, in summary...


Not too bad - we're almost there

:wink: :wink: :roll: :roll: :shock: :? :cry: :cry: :cry: