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Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Reports and reaction from the 2008-09 season as Walsall finished 13th in League 1
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WFCNIL
 
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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:27 pm

For a team who have hardly played together,missing 4 first team players, and with one or two players playing catch up fitness wise, I think we just about got away with it.

I think some of the comments about the younger players Taundry, Nicholls and Smith are very harsh. They are young lads learning there trade. They are going to make mistakes, but looking at all the teams we have played so far I would not swop any of them for there players. Taundry for me once he gains experience is going to be a realy good player and I hope he gets 10 to 15 games this season.

On the downside I hope JM,s hesitancy in playing two strikers against 10 men, was just ultra cautious. At the end of the day he has got the result and the points on the board.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:38 pm

jabo played well, defence poor, 11 against 11 we would of lost, but i will be there next week :)

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:15 pm

Plastic Hawk wrote:Up front Ibehre was the clear man of the match. An absolute revelation. He looks like he'll need a lot of chances to score a single goal, but he's so awkward and worked so hard chasing things down that he'll never have to wait long for another chance. He'll score his share of goals this season and make plenty of chances for his partner. Which brings me to another problem with our tactics today: he didn't have a partner. Reich seemed to be playing much deeper - and was lost as he didn't get anywhere near enough of the ball there. Whether that was down to him or to his team mates not being used to looking there I don't know, but either way it wasn't working and should have been changed - especially after the sending off. Playing 75 minutes against ten men with only one out-and-out striker was ludicrous.


Exactly what I said in my post. Reich was anonymous because he's not a forward, and was playing 'in the hole', and with our one dimensional tactics of hoofball, he was rarely touching the ball.

I said as early as the 20th minute that we should have either swapped him and nicholls, or got Nicholls off, Deeney on (up front) and Reich on the right.

I agree also about Nicholls, he doesnt really know how to play as a winger, he doesnt know when to cross, or how to cross. There was one point this afternoon, in the 2nd half, where he broke in to the penalty area, the left back was chasing him down, one centre back was coming across to close the angle, and the other centre back was covering jabo in the middle. Now, I can play as a winger, and I know there's 2 things you can do in that situation, and one thing you certainly shouldn't. These are his options:

a) Hit a low cross early (when he's just entering the penalty area, or earlier) so that it goes in between the centre back and the keeper, the idea being the striker coming in meets it in the middle as he should be attacking it...

b) Continue dribbling to the goal line, drawing the left back and centre back to him, and cut the ball back towards the penalty spot where there should be a midfielder coming in to attack it, giving him an easy finish.

What Nicholls did was the easiest to defend against, which was to try and cross it once he'd got 5 yards in to the area. Whatsmore, its not the first time he's done it. He's just not a winger.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:23 pm

Have you thought about contacting Schofield to give him some coaching tips?

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:24 pm

WFCNIL wrote:For a team who have hardly played together,missing 4 first team players, and with one or two players playing catch up fitness wise.

that's an excellent and valid point . its easy to forget we have a virtually new starting line up , key players not match fit , injured or suspended it will take time we will get better .

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:02 pm

retired wrote:IWhere is Bradley??? has he upset someone at the club

If he is injured why are they not saying and if Jimmy does not think he is good enough then he is daft.

Today really has me wondering whether there has been a bit of a fallout there.
I like Taundry - his determination and heart mean that he'll always give 110%. The problem I have with him is that he doesn't get involved enough. Next time we have the ball at the back, watch Taundry and you'll see that more often than not, he's jogging along, ball watching. I'm sure someone will get hold of that part of his game at some point and make him a better player for it, but Bradley's certainly the best option at the moment. Having Hughes sitting in the middle gives Bradley that license to support Ibehre.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:50 pm

Average performance, deserved it though in the end. Very ,very shaky at the back. Like i said last week this defence will concede goals. Jabo was awesome, reich was good to, although he drifted in and out of the game far to often. I thought alex nicholls was a little better than everyone has suggested, after watching most of pre season, i'd have said this was going to be his season, i just hope he pulls through now. I feel a little sorry fo chris palmer, because he has a brillant dead ball, but some of his defence is awful, hesistant, slow to react, its probaly because he's playing next to manny smith, who is the worst centre back to wear the shirt in years, regardless of his age.Gerrard was ok, but is in desperate need of roberts, weston & a flly fit boertien. H esimply cannot hold the back line on his own. Zaaboub got a little more involved today, i like thebloke & his left foot is a gem. Mullen's tactics, and ineptitude towards subsituton was incredible, why didnt we see ishy after an hour? Why didnt we start 4-4-2 with nicholls nex to jabo & reich on he wing? Why taundry & no bradley. One other thing, if weston is fully fit again, i'd give palmer a run in the midfield, the bloke looks half decent.

We badly miss mattis, as hughes does the holding role perfectly, put taundry is just not the player to bomb on. Get rid of taundy & smith now. Things could be decent, as soon as we have, mattis,weston,boertien,ricketts,a fully fit hughes,reich & roberts.


Until then we need to battle on.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:42 am

I didnt think the performance was very good tbh. The one dimensional and negative tactics especially after the interval led me to be a bit perplexed. Playing 70 minutes against ten men at home is very odd and negative. But in the end we won, however im pretty sure we would not have if they had all their quota of players. Reich is a class act, could be the key to our season. Jabo has won me over, brilliant today.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:28 am

SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We WON the game but still the most negative match reports...

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:57 am

Its only fair to say how well Scunthorpe adapted to the sending off , they knew and used every trick in the book and in particular gave Jabo a very hard time which resulted in him being very unfairly booked, Gerrard very nearly got into to trouble for receiving the same treatment.
We didn't react very well to going down to 10 men in midweek but I'm delighted we didn't resort to the tactics Scunthorpe used .

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:06 pm

Having seen the goals on the TV, I have got to disagree with the majority viewpoint. It was terrible defending from Boertien for the goal - got caught completely under the ball at the back post with no idea where his man was, similar to one of the Brighton goals last season. Also our winner was nowhere near offside, I cannot fathom what game the people were watching who thought that.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:12 pm

Have you ever wondered that the fans chanting a subs name to be bought on makes managers dig their heels in and adopt an they wont tell me what to do attitude.
We all know both Tuesdays and yesterdays game was crying out for Ishy to come on but Tuesday Mullen kept him on the bench and yesterday took him an age to bring him on.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:19 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:Having seen the goals on the TV, I have got to disagree with the majority viewpoint. It was terrible defending from Boertien for the goal - got caught completely under the ball at the back post with no idea where his man was, similar to one of the Brighton goals last season.

But the point I originally made was that regrdless of how poor Boertein's defending was once the cross was thrown in, it's so much easier just to stop the cross in the first place. As soon as that ball is crossed, the attacker running onto the end of it will always be favourite to get there ahead of the defender because of sheer momentum. Smith let the cross come in far too easily - I just hope he's told where he went wrong and learns from it.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:26 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:Having seen the goals on the TV, I have got to disagree with the majority viewpoint. It was terrible defending from Boertien for the goal - got caught completely under the ball at the back post with no idea where his man was, similar to one of the Brighton goals last season. Also our winner was nowhere near offside, I cannot fathom what game the people were watching who thought that.


our defence as an whole were to blame for the first goal , Smith , Boertien and Gerrard were all caught out of position , Ince hardly move a muscle,the fact we were caught napping so early in a game is something that needs looking at on the training ground.
Agreed about the winner nowhere near offside , a very well worked goal.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:13 pm

im worried that we dont have someone good enough to partner gerrard at the back, Smith doesnt have it for me but i will say he is better than roberts from what ive seen of him, Taundry does make excellent runs at times but he also ball watches aswell we need mattis in the team or bradders (is he injured or what), if there man hadnt of been sent off i personally think we wuld of lost by some margin because they looked very comfortable with 10 men up until the 85 mins mark when thre players understandably started to tire out, the idiot behind me who was blamin boeriten for the goal needs a reality check lil paul trying to beat a 6ft 2 dude in the air well its just not gunna happen mate, smith could of and should of easily stopped there man from getting the cross in and there striker giving Ince no chance too stop his bullet header, all in all we are going to need to improve defensivly for the next game and for god sake mullen stop playing nicholls on the right and get the lad upfront with jabba!!!

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:45 pm

I'm surprised that people are saying JM got his substitutions wrong, or made them too late.

The acid test is what impact did they have on the game.

As one of them made a significant contribution to the scoring of the winning goal, I'd say that JM is completely vindicated in his timing and selection of substitutes.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:46 pm

bleed_red_n_white wrote:the idiot behind me who was blamin boeriten for the goal needs a reality check lil paul trying to beat a 6ft 2 dude in the air well its just not gunna happen mate

who is the idiot? Garry Thompson, who scored, is 5ft10, the same height as...er...Paul Boertien.
WFC_Rob wrote:But the point I originally made was that regrdless of how poor Boertein's defending was once the cross was thrown in, it's so much easier just to stop the cross in the first place. As soon as that ball is crossed, the attacker running onto the end of it will always be favourite to get there ahead of the defender because of sheer momentum. Smith let the cross come in far too easily - I just hope he's told where he went wrong and learns from it.

I don't think it is necessarily easier to stop the cross, Smith was dragged out wide when it should have been Palmer, who (I presume) was caught upfield. That left us exposed in the centre but Boertien didn't take up a great position to mark the man or head the cross clear. No one was faultless, but no one man was to blame either. That said, I've not been hugely impressed from the little I've seen of Smith and the sooner Weston returns, the better. In addition, from what I've heard and seen - I'd go and beg Villa for their young centre-back Nathan Baker.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:48 pm

WarsawPact wrote:As one of them made a significant contribution to the scoring of the winning goal, I'd say that JM is completely vindicated in his timing and selection of substitutes.

I think you're right. As I suggested in my original post however, it was touch and go as to whether Mullen would be rated or slated for his substitutions because many people in the stands could see the game was crying out for an injection of pace (aka Ishmel) long before it came. Had Jabo put that effort wide, I think we'd be reading a lot more comments along the lines of 'Mullen got it wrong today'.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:14 pm

Every point is a bonus 4 in 2 games when you bring in so many new players and change the system of playing.I think This team will get better when they play more together,jabo is a handfull and a second striker will score a few goals feeding off him,taundry was impressive second half , i thought we struggled through the centre of defence first half and it was not only manny smith gerrard got pulled out of position to easly tightened up second half,As for mullen keeping 451 was right against 10 men they played 441 so we still had the extra man in midfield the fault was the midfield did'nt support jabo quick enough, ishy should have been bought on earlier but apart from that job done we need a good start to keep the mullen haters off his back and stop the boo boys putting pressure on the team

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:34 pm

WarsawPact wrote:I'm surprised that people are saying JM got his substitutions wrong, or made them too late.

The acid test is what impact did they have on the game.

As one of them made a significant contribution to the scoring of the winning goal, I'd say that JM is completely vindicated in his timing and selection of substitutes.

It is a fallacy (technically called "post hoc ergo propter hoc") to suggest that because we won the match it proves that Mullen made the right decisions in the timing of the substitutions.

On Saturday I wore my lucky underpants, so I suppose the acid test about whether or not they brought Walsall luck was whether or not we won the game. The fact that we won proves that it was the wearing of the underpants that made all the difference.

It would make just as much sense (i.e. not much) to say that because we did not score the winning goal until after the substitution of Ishmel that proves that it was a mistake not to bring him on sooner.
Last edited by Bernie on Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:36 pm

Just in case though, could you not change your undies before Crewe please Bernie.

Cheers. :D

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:47 pm

Cannock wrote:Just in case though, could you not change your undies before Crewe please Bernie.

Cheers. :D



Why don't you do a swap, Cannock? :?

That way, Bernie's lucky pants will still be at Crewe, but he'll have changed them. Job done. 8)

Couple of seats spare in the car btw, if you're going. Offer is withdrawn if you take the Bernie's undies option, though. :lol:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:57 pm

It could be far worse Willy. Just imagine Asps undies !!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:01 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:I've not been hugely impressed from the little I've seen of Smith and the sooner Weston returns, the better.


Anyone gunning for Smith & Weston? :D

IGMC.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:03 pm

Bernie wrote:It is a fallacy (technically called "post hoc ergo propter hoc") to suggest that because we won the match it proves that Mullen made the right decisions in the timing of the substitutions.

On Saturday I wore my lucky underpants, so I suppose the acid test about whether or not they brought Walsall luck was whether or not we won the game. The fact that we won proves that it was the wearing of the underpants that made all the difference.

It would make just as much sense (i.e. not much) to say that because we did not score the winning goal until after the substitution of Ishmel that proves that it was a mistake not to bring him on sooner.

I agree. But it is also true that if you get results consistently over a long period, then the continual pointing out of individual errors or perceived mistakes is rendered a redundant piece of petty point-scoring. That could be, I dunno, say, complaining about not playing Ishy for more matches if we've won the championship. Off the top of my head. Results are the name of the game and if you get enough of them then how you got them is largely immaterial. I wouldn't recommend it, but he could play Ishy in goal for every match as far as I am concerned if we ended up in the top six.

This is from the same school of thought that says Paul Merson is not a good manager just because he happened to sign Gerrard and Fox.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:55 pm

Wasnt the best of games, but we won. Didnt understand the tactics but like others have said we won so we can keep the criticism to a minimum.
I said to a few people at Yeovil, Mullen doesnt like to use his substitutes. It took him until 80 mins to use one then. Be interesting to see how early he makes one when we are losing.

5th after two games, I didnt think we would get anything from them.

Banks's looked so empty especially for the first home game. Maybe a win might tempt others back but unless Asps gets me a few more hospitality tickets :wink: I wont be going.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:07 pm

I think we missed Ricketts today.Jabo was upfront on his own which is why we weren't affective going forward. Even though Jabo played superbly, I believe if we had another out and out striker to play in place of Ricketts we would of scored several more yesterday.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:11 pm

Exile wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:I've not been hugely impressed from the little I've seen of Smith and the sooner Weston returns, the better.


Anyone gunning for Smith & Weston? :D

IGMC.


That's a pistol poor joke, Exile.

Really scraping the barrel.


As an aside, Smith and Wesson was acquired (at some point, I believe) by F H Tomkins (or their parent company), who are situated just a pistol shot, or a Clayton Ince kick, away from the Bescot/Banks's.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:39 pm

Willy Nilly wrote:
Exile wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:I've not been hugely impressed from the little I've seen of Smith and the sooner Weston returns, the better.


Anyone gunning for Smith & Weston? :D

IGMC.


That's a pistol poor joke, Exile.

Really scraping the barrel.


I expected a better retort from a man of your calibre, Willy.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (Home) League 1 Saturday 16/8/08.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:40 pm

Cannock wrote:It could be far worse, Willy. Just imagine Asps' undies !!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:


Why? He never wears them to away matches - ask Kiansmom! :D

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