Darlington (Home) Carling Cup 1st Round Tuesday 12/8/08.

[Walsall Loyal]

Well after their second goal I was discusted at the way one of our fans stood up by the wall having a go at Gerrard! Good on Gerrard having a go back.He won't stay with us now, and to be honest I wouldn't blame him if he went.

I wasnt there but have been told by three at the ground it was his fault. What should a fan do? "Oh well done Ant for throwing the game away"? :?
If he cant take criticism then tough luck. He's an arrogant barsteward anyway.

constructive criticism fine. but some idiot shouting abuse?!?! thats not on.

think cricket's more your game pal

Ok, we all pay to go and to give our opinion when we feel the need but when it clearly has an effect on a player, one who is key to any success this season, then for me i don't see the point in giving out abuse.

I actually agree with what you're saying, however I think some people would rather the game played in the atmosphere of a library. Football used to be about going down the match enjoying 90 minutes with your mates releasing a bit of tension etc etc, now you cant scratch ya plums without someone moaning.

[stefano123]

think cricket's more your game pal

:roll: :roll: :roll:

mate sit next to me at our next game then tell me im more for cricket... its one thing to wholeheartedly support your team, sing your heart out, and shout profanities in the direction of the ref, the opposition and occasionally at the team as a whole, but it is quiet another to stand there and blatantly abuse one of our more loyal and talented players calling him all the names under the sun...

[stefano123]

I actually agree with what you're saying, however I think some people would rather the game played in the atmosphere of a library. Football used to be about going down the match enjoying 90 minutes with your mates releasing a bit of tension etc etc, now you cant scratch ya plums without someone moaning.

So if people start moaning then thats ok because at least it doesn't sound like a library? Give me a break. There was very little atmosphere in the ground tonight but that wouldn't be put right, nor would it do the players on the pitch any good, if fans were to start hurling abuse at their own team!

[WFC_Rob]

Pedagogue - Considering the encouraging reports you've given on the majority of our players tonight, how do you account for such a shoddy performance and embarassing result?

[stefano123]

there keeper made at least 3 top saves and hughes missed a sitter if two had gone in i think you would be writing a different post-match report...
i dont agree we were out battled i think the lads held there own with 10 men - we were unlucky - but i do think that it is "still early in the season, still gaining full fitness, still getting to know each other,player sent off" were all massive factors
i do agreee that the game was crying out for ishmel and cover for the first 11 looks inexperienced and potentially weak.

I can never quite understand the "still gaining match fitness".
So cos Darlington won does that mean thev'e reached their match fitness and we haven't ?

i think you've been a little selective in what you have critiqued there mate... if you read the original post that wasn't cited as the only reason for the result.

[cyclothymic]

Pedagogue - Considering the encouraging reports you've given on the majority of our players tonight, how do you account for such a shoddy performance and embarassing result?

If I may answer for my fellow Block N supporter - we had ten men and they had eleven!

[Pedagogue]

Pedagogue - Considering the encouraging reports you've given on the majority of our players tonight, how do you account for such a shoddy performance and embarrassing result?

If I may answer for my fellow Block N supporter - we had ten men and they had eleven!

Thank you, Cyclo! :D

Rob - I was desperately trying to draw some positives from the game! :mrgreen: If you want the negatives:- indecisive performance from Roberts, ineffective contributions from Nicholls and Zaaboub, Ricketts being sent off but most of all - poor or non-existent finishing from Nicholls, Ricketts, Ibehre, Deeney and Zaaboub. Does that satisfy you? :D

[Sadders]

Incredible dissapointing.

Gerrard was good, but shouldn't be taking a pop at the fans.
Nicholls & Zaaboub both really failed to make an impact on the game, however Zaaboub's set piece delivery & shot near the end , showed again why he is highly rated in this league. Both palmer & sansara were poor for me, although palmer comfortable better out of the two. Taundry im afraid is not a central midfielde , nor aright back, im not sure actually if he cuts the grade anywhere on a football pitch. Roberts, looked very shakey to me & never seems to get afoot in before the opposition attacker does. Hughes was impssive & is a carbon copy ( if less attacking) then mattis, his distribution & general experience was impeccable, however the impact he made was only minor. i thought michael ricketts was impressive for the time he was on the pitch, we're always going to have the arrogance, but im sure he'll make up for it somewhere along the line. Specal mention to Jabo, who has already won me over, having seen him at worcestr & hednesford i thought instantly this bloke is of no use to this football club, however his fitess levels, movement,control,close body control, hustling effect, has a massive impact on the game, not only will he create for others, he'll create opportunites for himself. However his finishing it something that needs to be worked on. Thought clayton played well, & his run up the pitch and assist for the cross for the hughes sitter was the only amusing part of a frustrating evening. He still could use some time practising his kicking though, you'd think a proffessional goalkeeper would be able to kick a football to the halfway line in a straight line.

Upon reflection, we badly missed mattis tonight,& despite palmer / sansara's deent contributions so far, we're badly in need of the expeienced and reliable weston & boertien. A strikr is alos vital, after ricketts went off, we had absolutely no killer instict, i mean bless Jabo for runing himself into the ground, he will score a few & set some up, but if keeping michael ricketts fit is going to be a problem ( which no doubt it is) then we're going to have trouble scoring. Troy deeney is cack & simply will not cut the mustard, perhaps alex nicholls could be given a run, but im not so sure that will be prolific, We still have deawood, deeney, taundry, sansara simpy aren't good enough.

One other point, after seeing reich play for 15 minutes, its amazing that, reich isnt starting either on the wing or in the centre, as replacement for nicholls/taundry. Our managers tactical ineptitude might have cost us late in the game, isy should have been brought eve if just to scare the full back & reich brought at half time. Mullen out right ? :evil:


I'll gt my coat
* Door shuts


In all seriousness , im still hopeful but if we play like that on saturday, Scunthorpe's dreams will all have come at once.

[WFC_Rob]

Pedagogue - Considering the encouraging reports you've given on the majority of our players tonight, how do you account for such a shoddy performance and embarrassing result?

If I may answer for my fellow Block N supporter - we had ten men and they had eleven!

Thank you, Cyclo! :D

Rob - I was desperately trying to draw some positives from the game! :mrgreen: If you want the negatives:- indecisive performance from Roberts, ineffective contributions from Nicholls and Zaaboub, Ricketts being sent off but most of all - poor or non-existent finishing from Nicholls, Ricketts, Ibehre, Deeney and Zaaboub. Does that satisfy you? :D

:D
That's fair enough. I just thought I'd ask seeing as you'd missed those inadequacies from your original post. For a minute, I thought you'd been to a different game to me. :wink:

[Louise]

You will always get 'fans' at matches shout abuse at players, its something I personally would never do but it happens at every club and we are no exception.Gerrard should just walk away and behave professionally.If he really wants to play at a higher level then the miniscule criticism he might get directed at him at Walsall will be nothing in comparison to bigger clubs.
Beckham et al have vile things sung to them , but they get on with letting their feet do the talking and going home to their mansions.Gerrard should do the same and not get involved in a slanging match - its not worth it and he gets paid a lot of money to be above such things.
Footballers even at Walsalls level need to have discipline or you end up with what happened tonight aka Ricketts all the time.

So that makes it alright then does it? because 'you will always get it'? i think if i was earning as much as Beckham i could handle as much abuse as fans could throw because im goin home to a rather lovely wife! As much as it kills me, playing at the Bescot isnt as illustrious as Old Tradford, the Bernbeau or even the Home Depot Centre. BTW i dont think Gezza goes home to 'his mansion' like Becks and co. The reason 'you will always get' idiots is because they are tolerated and people accept it as 'part of the game'. just as racism was accepted as 'part of the game'; didnt make that right though did it? Again i reiterate and people wonder why our best talent leaves...

No of course it doesnt make it alright at all.What i actually said was it was something i would never do or condone but the reality is it happens at every level in football.
Yes it happens, no its not right, but how the footballer on the pitch deals with it is what we were talking about re Gerrard.The analogy i made with the likes of Beckham was more to do with the fact that they have to deal with constant abuse than how much money they made - but the two in the modern game go hand in hand. The wider point is about how the best players learn how to handle this type of thing and i repeat my main point that Gerrard needs to learn to walk away and not get involved.
Lets face it the one person who gets the most flack at all the games is the ref and they can somehow control themselves.
I think we are in agreement about what should and shouldnt be tolerated at games - verbal abuse whether on or off a pitch is not acceptable whether from a player or a fan.
Gerrard will eventually leave because he wants to earn more money and play in higher leagues , nothing to do with a few cretins off the pitch.

[Exile]

All our players have faults, none are the finished article. That's why they ply their trade at Walsall, not (for example) Old Trafford. Our more vocal antagonistic supporters would do well to recognise this.

[Exile]

My pathetic piece of churnalism, masquerading as a match 'report' is now on the front page.
I bet the Express & Star don't crib this!

[ShropsSaddler]

Incredible dissapointing. Taundry im afraid is not a central midfielde , nor aright back, im not sure actually if he cuts the grade anywhere on a football pitch.

Roberts, looked very shakey to me & never seems to get afoot in before the opposition attacker does.

We still have deawood, deeney, taundry, sansara simpy aren't good enough.

Nice to see that the overblown, emotional drivel spouted during the summer has carried on into the first matches :roll: And sorry Sadders, not just having a go at you, but these are fine examples. How can anyone describe Taundry and Sansara as "deawood" (sic) and "simply not good enough"?!?! These are young lads learning their trade and showing some real potential. What they are not is the finished article but for goodness sake, give them a chance!

As for all the other comments, I felt we were neither awful nor great last night but, in the circumstances (playing with 10 men for so long), gave a good account of ourselves and showed some promise for the season. Darlington are no mugs and are one of the favourites for promotion this year. It was their "big game" coming here and they raised their standard of play for it. You only have to look at some of the other results last night to know that this does happen. If it had remained 11 v 11, I am comfortable that we would have won in the end. 10 v 11 for so long, with the player sent off being your "star" striker and we'd have done well not to lose. As it was, I thought we did a superb job of closing them down with the 10 men. They didn't really create a thing apart from the goal. The unfortunate thing was neither did we until the last seconds of the game!

Our big problem last night was the full backs. I've not been convinced by Palmer or Sansara in pre-season but am giving them the benefit of the doubt after good reports at Yeovil etc. However, last night, with two decent men against them they were really shown up. Weston and Boertien, with the experience and skill they have, would have known that it was vital to put pressure on the tricky wingers as soon as they got the ball and keep them facing away from the goal. Our full backs didn't do that. Once they were turned towards our goal, they caused all sorts of problems with their pace and trickery. In Sansara's case, that'll come with experience I'm sure. In Palmer's case, I think we saw why Wycombe decided to release him.

Elsewhere, I'm afraid I have to disagree about Roberts. Both he and Gerrard had excellent games and I didn't think we were ever in any danger through the middle of the park. I'm surprised that others didn't note the fact that he did get his foot in on a lot of occasions and he put that immediate pressure on his man so that they never did get to turn towards goal. My only doubt is whether he and Gerrard are too similar to form a really good partnership. We shall see. Oh, and I thought Smith did well when he came on, there was some real promise there.

Hughes - not as imposing as I;d like him to be yet but he did the simple things well and did get stuck in. Also struck one exquisite pass from a free-kick near the end. Real quality.

Zaboob - again, I disagree with most here. It all depends what you want him to do. I thought he had an excellent disciplined game, tracking back whenever he was needed to and getting through heaps of work. Going forward, he played simple passes and didn't look to take on his man but I get the impression that's not his game. Perhaps we should have brought Demontagnac on (I would have done so) to have a real go, but I was surprised that it was Zaboub and not Nicholls who was taken off.

Ricketts - I was watching the incident. For some reason, I tend to see these things when others don't. The referee was looking right at it from only 10 yards away or so. What he failed to do was take any action against the midfielder and the defender who, whilst the ball was still with Ince, both had handfuls of Rickett's shirt and one may have stepped on his foot, accidentally or otherwise. Initially, Ricketts shrugged them both off but then for some reason, he flicked out a hand at the midfielder and caught him in the head. It was NOT a punch and it was NOT an elbow. There was hardly any contact but of course the midfielder collapsed like a sack of spuds and needed treatment :roll: Unfortunately, the ref had no option but to send Ricketts off. It was a stupid petulant act. However, it does annoy me that the ref failed to take any action against their players for either holding Ricketts or play-acting, which the ref clearly saw.

Reich - his touch on the ball looks excellent and I can see games this season where he could make a real impression. However, for those who don't understand that football is a team game and wanted him on at half-time, Reich is NOT a worker it would seem and therefore to bring him on when we were down to 10 men would have been totally wrong. For all the skill he showed when on the pitch, there was an incident less than 5 mins from the end where he stood hands on hips (uh oh, where have I seen that before?!?) and let Jabo run further to chase a defender who had the ball despite the fact that Jabo must have been knackered. He'll have an impact this season though, I've no doubt.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

You are joking, of course, Roberts was dreadful! Agree with all of the comments about the weakness of both full backs and I still think central midfield was a major problem, with neither winger getting any decent possession from them all night,

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... flections/

[ShropsSaddler]

You are joking, of course, Roberts was dreadful! Agree with all of the comments about the weakness of both full backs and I still think central midfield was a major problem, with neither winger getting any decent possession from them all night,

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... flections/

Ha ha, we cross posted. I posted my thoughts on your "reflections" thread. No, sorry, I don't think Roberts was "dreadful" at all. I thought both he and Gerrard had good, solid games. No danger came through the middle, it was all down the flanks. You wrongly stated that Roberts didn't close down his man for the 1st goal - it was Hughes I'm afraid, not Roberts. That would make sense as well, since the scorer was a midfielder. Roberts was, quite rightly, marking the centre-forward. As I said on your thread, I'm not 100% convinced that Roberts and Gerrard will be a great partnership yet but I am concerned that there's a certain amount of bias against Roberts already. He's not Dann, that's for certain. What he is is a stopper, same as Gerrard but with slightly less pace, better positional sense and more level headed!! :D

I think your point about midfield not getting the ball wide is relevant. That said, when Nicholls did get possession, he was most disappointing. Zaboub, with having a stunning game, rarely wasted possession.

[Duke]

Incredible dissapointing. Taundry im afraid is not a central midfielde , nor aright back, im not sure actually if he cuts the grade anywhere on a football pitch.

Roberts, looked very shakey to me & never seems to get afoot in before the opposition attacker does.

We still have deawood, deeney, taundry, sansara simpy aren't good enough.

Ricketts - I was watching the incident. For some reason, I tend to see these things when others don't. The referee was looking right at it from only 10 yards away or so. What he failed to do was take any action against the midfielder and the defender who, whilst the ball was still with Ince, both had handfuls of Rickett's shirt and one may have stepped on his foot, accidentally or otherwise. Initially, Ricketts shrugged them both off but then for some reason, he flicked out a hand at the midfielder and caught him in the head. It was NOT a punch and it was NOT an elbow. There was hardly any contact but of course the midfielder collapsed like a sack of spuds and needed treatment :roll: Unfortunately, the ref had no option but to send Ricketts off. It was a stupid petulant act. However, it does annoy me that the ref failed to take any action against their players for either holding Ricketts or play-acting, which the ref clearly saw.

that pretty much ties in with what fans who attended last night are telling me at work.

[philthesaddler]

I thought Hughes, Gerrard and Jabo all looked good. Ricketts did his usual thing of being in the right place at the right time, with Jabo doing the running.

Roberts looked a bit iffy, off the pace, like an early season Roper. Lets face it though, he'll probably improve with his fitness levels.

Gerrard was superb, he's improved tremendously in the last 12 months.

Zaboob and Nicholls just dont see enough of the ball to do anything, Sansara looked out of his depth against their very good right winger. Palmer looked ok, but steadily got worse.

Looks like we've got another manager who will refuse to use Ishy, even though he could be a tremendous asset to us.

Referee was poor, but you can't argue with the sending off.

Attendance didn't surprise me one bit, FFS, if the club are giving its most loyal fans a free ticket, then it's giving it's loyal fans a free ticket, to put a sly little trip wire in there to catch people out and make them pay is very sly - yet typical - of WFC.

I understand there are FL rules about the timings of selling un-claimed seats, and knowing who exactly is where in the ground etc.,but the point is this was a free ticket for fans who have had the decency to buy a season ticket, they could easily have treated it in the same way as a league game and just let people rip out the voucher in their booklet.

They didn't advertise the fact you had go early to pick up your ticket - I didnt see it anywhere, and I know many others who didn't know either. It's just another case of the club shooting itself in the foot, just like only opening one bar in the F2G will put people off getting a pint, thus generating less revenue for the club... etc.

[ShropsSaddler]

Looks like we've got another manager who will refuse to use Ishy, even though he could be a tremendous asset to us.

It's surprising. But, in the end, when it's "another" manager, as you rightly state, you must come the conclusion that the managers are seeing things that we don't which suggest that he shouldn't be used.

We can only speculate - is it his attitude in training? Is it his attitude around the club? Is he still having temper tantrums that we don't see? Is he showing a lack of respect to the manager and his staff? Is he "misbehaving" on the bench? All these questions are raised in my mind. There's surely no doubt that, despite being rather erratic, he can bring a little bit of magic to a game and therefore ought to be used in certain circumstances, such as last night. The fact that he is continually getting left as an unused sub suggests there is more to this than meets the eye.

[philthesaddler]

Looks like we've got another manager who will refuse to use Ishy, even though he could be a tremendous asset to us.

It's surprising. But, in the end, when it's "another" manager, as you rightly state, you must come the conclusion that the managers are seeing things that we don't which suggest that he shouldn't be used.

We can only speculate - is it his attitude in training? Is it his attitude around the club? Is he still having temper tantrums that we don't see? Is he showing a lack of respect to the manager and his staff? Is he "misbehaving" on the bench? All these questions are raised in my mind. There's surely no doubt that, despite being rather erratic, he can bring a little bit of magic to a game and therefore ought to be used in certain circumstances, such as last night. The fact that he is continually getting left as an unused sub suggests there is more to this than meets the eye.

Those questions are raised in my mind too, but they're not new questions. We've kept him on for a reason, to use him. He'll scare the crap out of defences in this league with his pace and trickery, if we're going to refuse to use him regularly for reasons we dont see then its a waste of a wage,

[tinned]

Incredible dissapointing. Taundry im afraid is not a central midfielde , nor aright back, im not sure actually if he cuts the grade anywhere on a football pitch.

Roberts, looked very shakey to me & never seems to get afoot in before the opposition attacker does.

We still have deawood, deeney, taundry, sansara simpy aren't good enough.

Nice to see that the overblown, emotional drivel spouted during the summer has carried on into the first matches :roll: And sorry Sadders, not just having a go at you, but these are fine examples. How can anyone describe Taundry and Sansara as "deawood" (sic) and "simply not good enough"?!?! These are young lads learning their trade and showing some real potential. What they are not is the finished article but for goodness sake, give them a chance!

In Palmer's case, I think we saw why Wycombe decided to release him.

Priceless!

[ShropsSaddler]

Priceless!

:lol: Nice one tinned. Looks like I got me a forum stalker :wink:

To defend myself, the players who were being criticised as being "not good enough" by others were youngsters. It really is too soon to say. They certainly showed inexperience last night, but that does not mean they are failures!! For what it's worth, I can see plenty of promise in Sansara, Taundry, Smith and even Deeney. What they all need to do is work hard, learn from more experienced people and perform to the best of their abilities. It remains to be seen whether that happens in time, but you certainly can't write them off after a poor night against Darlington!

Whereas Palmer is more of an "established" player. Others seem to like him though, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Interesting to see people talking about his "pace". 2nd half, he chased one ball with their winger and lost the race by a couple of yards. Hughes had a chase with the same winger....and matched him! That really surprised me.

[tinned]

Priceless!

:lol: Nice one tinned. Looks like I got me a forum stalker :wink:

:mrgreen:

I'll be there all season looking for every contradiction you make.

Just ignore all of mine though

:wink:

[Ned_Kelly]

Priceless!

:lol: Nice one tinned. Looks like I got me a forum stalker :wink:

:mrgreen:

I'll be there all season looking for every contradiction you make.

Just ignore all of mine though

:wink:

Deffinition of contradiction..... Someone who doesn't want a chairman to get any more of his money, and then buy's a season ticket :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: