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Sheff Wed (a) - Carling Cup - 25th August 2004

Reports and reaction from the 2004-05 season as Walsall finished 14th in League 1
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Sheff Wed (a) - Carling Cup - 25th August 2004

Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:01 pm

By rugeley (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 09:43 pm: Edit

Why did we field the reserves for this game? I had planned to go up to the match until I heard that Merson was going to drop 10 players. We are not playing well this season, but surely we might have won if we had played our first team.Some of my best Walsall memories are of the league cup run in 1984. Premiership teams field their reserves in these matches because they don't need the money that a run in the cup could bring, and because they think they can beat a team from the lower divisons with their second string team. We seem to deliberately try to lose.

By WSOne (81.178.240.56) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:16 pm: Edit

Because we need six points from the next two league games. What do you want: a few games in the Carling Cup or promotion? Merson wants the latter and so do the supporters!

By leedssaddler (62.252.224.12) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:44 pm: Edit

As we'd have got Coventry away if we'd won, can't say I'm too arsed.

By flownswift (82.10.32.200) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 10:59 pm: Edit

last season there were 7000 at bolton,we lost and probably broke even on appearance fees to gate receipts. I think that merson has
seen that unless we draw one of the top prem teams away in the latter stages, we will not gain finincialy. Perhaps under fat jan with lower expectations and a smaller budjet things were different but we all know we have moved on since then...

By rugeley (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:24 pm: Edit

WSOne do you really think that we can win promotion this season? I will be amazed if we finish in the top half with the set-up we have at present.

Sheffield Wednesday are not an unbeatable team. To send out a team expecting to lose to them is a disgrace.

Leedssaddler I remember going to Coventry in the league cup some years ago and beating them 3-0. They were in the top division and we were in the third. With our present set up I suppose that beating Coventry is way beyond our dreams.

Flownswift exactly how are we better than in the FatJan days? We are in the same division, with no prospect of getting out of it - except by relegation.


By hullsaddler (213.249.232.39) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:43 pm: Edit

Well that was pretty disappointing stuff.Had thought the first time I'd see the reserves was when they come to Hull in march.
I'd been really looking forward to it as first chance to see the saddlers this season,but we never looked like getting anything out of the game.Lot of steady performances but nobody struck me as likely to force their way in to the first team.Birch confirmed what I thought of him and Merson was very poor.Dont know whether he had the right studs in, as he seemed to slip over a lot, but some of his passing was pretty dire.
Thought Paston did pretty well,nothing he could do about a well taken goal.
Just hope the game at Doncaster is more inspiring.
Was introduced to Sheffield Saddler who I must admit looked totally different to the way I've always imagined him.

By SheffieldSaddler (172.186.12.148) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:48 pm: Edit

Well I think it was an absolute disgrace. One of the worst Walsall performances I have witnessed in 25 years of following them.
No shape. No formation. No effort. No responsibility.
Makes you laugh when WFC complain about having no money. Yet a competition that can generate money they not only treat the competition with contempt, but also treat the fans who went with even more contempt.
A man with a blind dog could have found a pass to a Walsall shirt with more frequency then Paul Merson. If Standing/Birch/Broad /Wright etc are footballers then I am the best thing that as hit hollywood since Tom Cruise.
We are a DISGRACE. A PATHETIC bunch of no hopers.
If I went to work and put in as much effort as that, I would be in my managers office at 5pm every day.
Sheffield Wednesday should be disgusted they have only managed to score 1 goal. The Dog and Duck would have stuck 5 away at least.

By dave burntwood (81.109.93.28) on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:54 pm: Edit

Just got back from Sheffield.
Cannot believe Merson thinks Walsall too big for Carling Cup.
Paston Good game 6
Willetts Started slowly, improved 7
K Taylor Got the run- around 4
Zigor MOM 9
Dakinah Solid 7
Standing OK 6
Broad OK 7
Wright played on left, I hoped he would play
right-back to replace Bazeley 6
Merson Crap, didn't look interested 3
Birch Very poor, didn't look interested 4
Atieno OK 6


By SheffieldSaddler (172.186.12.148) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:03 am: Edit

Paston - 6.
Willetts - 4.
Taylor - 4.
Zigor - 7.
Dakinah - 5.
Standing - 4.
Broad - 4.
Wright - 4.
Merson - minus 10.
Birch - 2.
Atieno - 3.
Now that is what you call reality.

By PGtips (62.31.219.89) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:40 am: Edit

Birch and Wright will be playing at conference level (or lower) within the next two years. Birch is going backwards rapidly and Wright just does not have the ability or physical strength to play league football. Plenty of willing though not like Birch who seems to have mastered the art of hiding behind three defenders when a team mate has the ball.

Was that really the Paul Merson of 20 odd England caps and championship medals out there tonight. Spent most of the match on his arse and unabe to play a simple 6 yard pass to a team mate immediatly next to him. A really dreadful performance and not something likely to inspire those around him. This guy is fading fast as a player and is a long way from arriving as a manager.

Standing anonymous. Broad nowhere near his pre season performances - but then he has a contract now. Paston looked dodgy at times despite what the commentary may have said. Dakinah also dodgy but improved as the game went on. Taylor wasted in defence.Is Leroy Williams being coached to simply jump into players?

Plus points were Willets who looked good on his debut. I never thought I would say it but Zigor looked like an accomplished defender out there. Talking to his team mates and reading the game well. Atieno looked enthusiastic but how many more kids can we throw into the mix?

Lets just not bother entering the competion next time around if this is how we are going to treat it.

By Near post header (80.47.210.103) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit

It was the chance for the fringe players to shine. Even you (who I now beleive to be the latest in a long line of pesimists) have taken positives from the game, and thats what merson used it for. A competitive outing for players to show him what they can do. Expect Zigor to start on saturday.

By SheffieldSaddler (172.186.12.148) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:05 am: Edit

NPH - Well what players do you think "showed Merson what they can do" tonight then?
Tell me.
Which players would you say earned there place in Saturdays line up?
Tell me.

By Near post header (80.47.210.103) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:12 am: Edit

Like I said above Sheff I couldnt make it tonight because Im busy keeping blighty safe from harm. However from what Pgtips has said Aranalde played well. However I didnt say after this game thier would be 10 new faces beating down the managers door, just that he used the game to give them an opportunity. Why are you so confrontational Sheff? Were you bullied as a child perhaps? Are you like this to peoples faces? If you are your either very big or long overdue a hiding! Or both!

By SheffieldSaddler (172.186.12.148) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:16 am: Edit

NPH - SO 1 player out of 11 earned a place for Saturday. What does that say about the other 10?
NPH - I say it as it is. I dont hide like you.

By Near post header (80.47.210.103) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:26 am: Edit

Whos hiding? In what way am I hiding? I can answer your original question as I wasnt at the game and so I would be calling the sky orange just to argue for the sake of it. And what do you mean "say it as it is"? That seems to imply that your infallable when really your opinions are contentious rubbish most of the time. However if you could explain how im hiding i'd be very keen to learn.

By Voice Of tReason (195.92.168.166) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:55 am: Edit

You're 'hiding' because you've said something that Mr Saddler doesn't agree with, and we all know how Mr Saddler hates those who don't leave their real name now don't we. Whats that? Mr Saddler doesn't have the first name Sheffield or the surname Saddler? NO surely not. You see I've had this argument with him already and it seems that what is good for the goose isn't good for the gander. Well Sheffield Saddler I for one have had enough of your ••••, this is a message board and people are entightled to use whatever name they want. It isn't hiding if they use a pseudonym. Do you really think that people on here will take their arguments any further than the messageboard or possibly the terraces? You see to me Sheffield Saddler is a faceless Walsall fan, and he can say whatever he wants to me on here, i'm not going to take it any further, and for all he knows im a 6ft 6 brick shithouse with a conviction for manslaughter. IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BIG MAN TO LEAVE YOUR REAL NAME, NEITHER DOES IT MAKE YOU PUSSY IF YOU HAVE A NICKNAME BECAUSE NO-ONE ON HERE, I HOPE, IS SAD ENOUGH TO TAKE WHAT IS SAID ON HERE SERIOUSLY ENOUGH TO HOLD GRUDGES.
I realise by the way,after reading what i have just typed, that I sound almost as bad as Sheffield.

By Exile (203.167.253.205) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 02:02 am: Edit

Almost, Voice, almost

Cheers,
Exile

(my real name is already taken on this board - what are the chances of that, eh?)

By concrete hippo (217.42.253.99) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 08:00 am: Edit

Paul Merson didn't treat the competition with contempt, he encouraged his team to play badly in an effort to p155 off SheffieldSaddler so much he'd turn into a Wednesday fan.

Such a shame it hasnt happened.

I thought Colin Lee was negative until I read some of your comments. Reading some of these posts is more depressing than watching most of last season's games.

By SheffieldSaddler (82.38.184.69) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 08:37 am: Edit

Concrete - Then ignore my posts. Simple. Have you not noticed that the author is at top of post? Simply use your mouse to move further down?

By PGtips (213.48.64.15) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 08:58 am: Edit

nph - I'm not always a pessimist. I'm just pissed off that I raced out of work early, raced up the motorway, raced through a crap and overpriced pie instead of my usual evening meal and then had to watch a cup competition that has produced some of our finest moments treated like a sunday morning kick about. We have discovered what we already knew - merson is past his sell by date, compared to the kids Zigor looks like an experienced defender and our fringe players are just fringe players. Meanwhile sheff weds proceed to the next round of a national cup competion without breaking into a sweat.

By Near post header (80.47.192.135) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 09:53 am: Edit

Ok Pg, didnt take into account the rushing and unnutrious meal factor. But he still had his reasons thats all Im saying.

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:09 pm: Edit

I think Merson embarrassed himself, Birchy stuck two fingers up at fans like me who have supported him to people and Kris Taylor was proved that he isn't half the player people think he is. Willetts showed that he isn't ready, Zigor and Kofi impressed, Standing impressed, didn't really see much of Broad.
Wrighty is too weak by far and his only asset is his pace. Can't put a final ball in. Taiwo isn't ready, and the Junior Saddlers came on as substitutes.

Over analysed Geordie?

In short, it was crap.



By Near post header (80.47.203.24) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 06:42 pm: Edit

Birchy stuck two fingers up? What literally or because he played badly? If its the latter you may want to look at your own evaluation of the widemen for his shortcomings.

By Sam Jones (195.92.168.173) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 08:09 pm: Edit

Not just Walsall but all clubs that play below strength in the league cup to me is bad, they are insulting to Alan Hardacker the former league sec who was the instigator of the League cup.

Also it is insulting to the sponsors of the League Cup, if it,s worth entering then at least play to try and win a game.

I made the effort to go to Hillsborough and see my team, can't say the same for the club.

By Pedro (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:35 pm: Edit

Load of crap last nite. Ok we not going to win the cup , but what has happened to all those cup runs we use to enjoy taking on the big teams and beating them.

The players last night showed no interest what so ever.

As for Birch he was a complete joke. How he earned a contract and still gets picked I cannot understand. Maybe it time for Merse to give him a bollocking and send him out on loan somewhere.

Sheff you gave Birch 2 - is that because he put his shirt on the right way round



By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 11:07 pm: Edit

Metaphorically NPH.

I agree with you that the service he got leaves alot to be desired, but the fact that in 4 appearences this season, he has only looked trully bothered in one game at Bournemouth. That game is why I defended him NPH, but unless he starts getting service he is going to look bad, and when he looks bad he can't be bothered to do something about it, because he just doesn't care that much.

By jolly johnny (195.93.34.9) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 12:04 am: Edit

I agree with your analysis of last night Jorge.

I myself belted to get to hillsborough and missed the first few minutes, burnt the roof of my mouth on a hotdog at £2.20 (although it was quite tasty!) and then endured 90 minutes of crap. This is p155 poor football and after going to Oldham, seeing crap against Barnsley and then this I am cheesed to say the least - I'm just lucky I couldn't go to Bournemouth as i'd be feeling even worse now.

Only Zigor, Paston and Standing came out of this game with any credit.

Paston - did okay - claimed more in the box.
Willets - looked dodgy early and played suicide balls across own box but got better and involved.
Kofi - okay and quite good on the deck.
Ziggy - did very well - back into first 11 please.
K Taylor - dissapointing tonight and got mixed up with Wright on who had to cover who.
Wright - rubbish other than shot against post - no strength or desire to close down players.
Merse - why does EVERY pass have to be played with outside of right foot. Only 1 out of 10 passes were successful - did play 3 gems but this isn;t enough over 90 mins. Stick to home matches Merse.
Standing - did okay but chasing the ball like a school kid at times.
Broad - okay but didn't do much to grab attention.
Birch - Had his last chance for me - hardly chased or wanted to know in the game.
Atieno - Didn't do much better than Birch to be honest - couldn't get past players and didn;t really know what to do with the ball.

Leeroy - since Port Vale he has been woeful. Can't get the ball out from under his feet and just thinks he can get past players all the times and play tricks. Hold the ball up and bring in other players Leeroy.
McDermott - how small is he?! Youth FC versus...

More glaring things came out after last night's match.

1) We had nothing coming forward. Even with 3 or 4 forwards on we didn't look like scoring or being dangerous. We attack but don't know what to do with the ball as we approach their area. We have gone with kids too early - they need to spend a season playing the game in a less pressure situation than the first team. letting Mcsporran and Bradbury go now looks a bit hasty - Bradbury has to be better than Birch.

2) "We are playing a high tempo game and attack with pace" - well, whenever the ball came out of our defence the midfield passed it sideways, no-one really ran at their defenders with the ball and they were able to get lots of players behind the ball in virtually all our attacks .

3)We don't have any strength in depth at all. If these players are pushing for 1st team then that's worrying. Merse keeps saying he wouldn't swap any players for any other in this division. Well I'd take at least 7 or 8 of Sheffield Wednesday's after last night. Peacock looked like a proper striker and even Proudlock looked useful when he came on second half.

Finally, there were two 'veteran' midfielders on show last night, one for us and one playing in the middle of the park for SW - guess which one bossed the midfield, had a presence and chased and talked? Mmmmm

I look forward to writing more positive things after the weekend and hopefully 6 points.


By Geordiesaddler (195.92.67.74) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 10:10 am: Edit

Not over-analysed Jorge, very much spot on. It was an embarassing shambles of the first order.

Entertaining? Attacking? We were ripped apart by a slightly above average division 2 team, as we have been by several others who probably are no better than average. I actually heard someone say "well at least its not as bad as Saturday", how bad was Saturday exactly? 5 games in, I've been to three, seen three cr*p performances, and apparently missed the worst of the season. This is very very poor, and very worrying. People need to wake up to how bad things are at the moment and fast, and by that I mean this weekend's games are massive. If we carry on with this standard of performance week in week out we will in a relegation scrap, and from what I've seen these players wouldn't be able to scrap their way out of a wet paper bag. If anyone who has been to matches this season can tell my reasons why we wont be then I'm all ears, but that's my opinion based on what I've seen. We need to improve 300% in all aspects of our game, urgency, closing down opponents, passing, creating chances from open play, defending crosses, marking, goalkeeping, talking to each other, shooting, you bloody name it. People have likened this to the BFJ era, Sheff Wed and Oldham have had more in common with the Hibbit era. SORT IT OUT MERSON, starting Saturday.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 10:18 am: Edit

Careful, mate, you're close to committing heresy, apparantly.

By Ian Gittins (213.165.1.175) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:20 am: Edit

The people who were clapping their hands with glee like Marco from Big Brother when Colin Lee was fired, and who predicted we would obviously walk this league because Big Famous Paul Merson was managing us, are now getting the cold dose of reality they were always going to get. We had a good manager. We kicked him out. Now we have chaos. Are you happy, chaps?

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:49 am: Edit

To be fair, Ian, there were only few of those and they did get jumped on. I trust they now realise they were talking through their a r s e s. Also, with the benefit of hindsight, we might have been better off if Lee had gone earlier, it's impossible to say. The point is that it is a completely sterile argument anyway, as what's done is done.
Merson may yet get this right and I hope he does, but I do think he's cocked up by not getting an experienced (in management or coaching) number two and, unlike some people, I don't think the club can waste an entire season if he doesn't get it right, hence saying he should be given a time limit to pull things round before the season is, in effect, all over. That is not, as some people seem to think, the same thing as calling for his head.

By Ian Gittins (213.165.1.175) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:57 am: Edit

I entirely agree. Wolves fans aren't going down a notch and saying they don't care whether they go back up this year, and nor did Baggies fans. But I think it was utter stupidity for Merson to drop an entire team against Sheff Wed - does he think we are Manchester United, able to pick and choose our competitions as we see fit? Much as I like the man, I am finding it hard to see rhyme or reason in many of his actions right now.

By Near post header (80.47.195.214) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 02:42 pm: Edit

He chose to play a "weakened" side so he could see what he has on offer for the league programme. He needed to see them in a competitive setting and despite all, in terms of goals conceeded thats our best defensive performance of the season.

By Jolly Johnny (82.108.114.170) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 04:26 pm: Edit

...a defence which didn't have Bazeley, Bennett or officers plod and dibble in it NPH!!!!

To be fair to Baze, Willetts doesn't look ready to come in a replace him and Merse has already said he wants to see Kofi at right back, which will surely be in a reserve game first so I think he's safe at the moment.

I ranted on in my earlier long post above but I can see why he played a weakened team, it's just that it was so weakened it didn't even compete. How the hell the reserves won 7-2 the other day I don't know as we didn't look like getting one at Sheffield. There isn't much there to challenge the first team either for places, which is also a bit worrying.

Ziggy should come back in to the side, even if only the bench for Saturday. If we are doing okay, bring him on at left back and push bennett inside to centre half to see what he's like there. Although, this is probably wishful thinking as we won't make it easy for ourselves I feel!

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 04:49 pm: Edit

That's what I mean about strange decisions. If he's said he wants to see Kofi at full back and is determined to make all these changes (although I admit I didn't see that), why not play Dann at centre half on Wednesday and Kofi at right back in a competitive fixture? It surely makes more sense, especially when he's going to play Kitamirike in the reseves next week?

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