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Doncaster (h)- League - 1st January 2005

Reports and reaction from the 2004-05 season as Walsall finished 14th in League 1
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YGA Saddler
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Doncaster (h)- League - 1st January 2005

Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:14 pm

A new year but still the same effortless display we saw throughout last year.

first half we wasnt too bad but yet again we was tirin near the end and he brings 2 subs on and they were both enforced, is Harry going to get a game?
Cracking goal by standing and if i asnt for murphy we could have lost 5.

Cant really say there was any positives apart from bennett looking better at left back than zigor but we need him in the middle with embo because mcshane doesnt fit the bill.

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Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:25 pm

Doncaster were a team not afraid to take a shot at goal, thankfully many went wide, and Murphy kept us well in the game with some super saves.
WE seem to want to walk the ball into the goal, or as soon as any players enters the box they have panick attacks,

"Oh my god I'm in the box HELP!!"

and kick the ball away from goal.

Thankfully we came back again from going down, and at the end were unlucky not to steal the 3 points, not that it would of really been deserved.

A point is better than nothing I suppose

philthesaddler
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Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:03 pm

Few thoughts.

Murphy, after a dodgy showing against tranmere, made several quality saves today. Doncaster tester our keeper at least a dozen times. How many saves did we force out of their keeper?

Mcshane, Emblen, Bennett and Wright. As a unit, not brilliant. individually:

Mcshane, i'd prefer him at left back and bennett in centre. good showing today tho.

Bennett. Same old Same old, solid, committed. unlucky.

embo: solid

Wright: Rubbish again. At fault for their goal, can't defend to save his life.

Midfield. Far too light weight. for a start as a defensive unit, we're one down cos merson doesnt defend. Osborne had another mare. Standing looks good going forward, but nothing at the back, and Broad worked his socks off but lacks quality.

for me, our midfield isn't pulling its weight. There is not enough quality in there, and they are not protecting the defence any where near enough. Osborne, Standing and Broad are too weak, and lost out on too many 50:50's.

Osborne is still an enigma. 99% awful. giving the ball away, slow, in another word. Then all of a sudden he'll do some magic. He did a zidane cameo today. Chested it down, first time one-two with merson, and then a lovely lofted ball for fryatt. Still most of the time, he's awful.

Jorge: Isn't fit. Too lazy.

Marv: lost his edge, but doesnt find it easy when the team struggle.

Fryatt. Changed things, and made a difference. Immediately his skill got us in to the box, but we're too slow, undecisive and scared in the box.

Referee: Hadnt got a clue. None whatsoever. Atrocious refereeing display today. Missed two clear cut, stone cold, obvious penalties, right in front of him. Firstly, think it was Broad [?] near post header, blatently pushed in the back. Absolutely blatent. No penalty. Their player didnt get anywhere near the ball, and pushed our player right over, how the ref missed that i shall never know.

secondly, fryatt, had gone past his man, and was clear, obviously, blatently pulled back. Their chap had a handful of his shirt and the ref and linesman still missed it! Utterly atrocious refereeing. Definately altered the outcome of the match.

Areas to improve / strengthen:

Wright, wouldn't mind if he never played for the club again. will never make a pro footballer.

Jorge, his only use now is as sub, last 20 minutes. Is too tired after half an hour.

Sort out the defence. Far too much faffing about with it.

Midfield: If mers is to play, and not pull his weight defensively, then we need better players than osborne, standing and broad to at least let us in with a chance of winning midfield battles.

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Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:13 pm

We need a fighting, ball winning midfielder who can spread the ball, Jorge has had his day, I'm afraid.

Effortless sums up the performance. too many times we are second to the ball. We should be more ruthless at home instead of letting the away side "Take charge"

And to make things worse, my Fave Pie girl wasn't there either :?

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Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:28 pm

TBH, i don't think either were penalties. The first one was just very lightweight play on our part, the 2nd was the bog standard challenge you see defenders do week in, week out including our own Julian Bennett. I'd have been disappointed had we been on the receiving end of either of those decisions.

Bit harsh on Osborn, wasn't as good as vs Tranmere but was decent enough. Worthy of keeping his place, although i guess Kinsella will come back in to keep legs fresh. Still not sure what purpose Broad serves, can't see him keeping a spot unless Wrack is actually injured.

McShane @ left back? He is right footed, can't do that.

Jorge & Marvin look poor together. Jorge just isn't a striker anymore, have you ever seen a more harmless looking striker apart from Dale Banton. Marvin just looks thick, no brain in his head and just not very good.

All the good work has gone to waste now we've played a couple of teams above and around us. The false dawn before Xmas was exactly that, we'll do well to get out the top half, unless this South African knows how to put the ball in the net.

all very disappointing.

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Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:42 pm

spot on phil
thought broad wright and leitao were atrocious.
robinson needs to be judged when we put a ball on his head as he seems to have leitaos feet
we should take a lesson from doncasters if in doubt put it out approach to defending.
but once again another poor display with a lack of effort from some of the team.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:19 pm

BEACON SADDLER wrote:robinson needs to be judged when we put a ball on his head as he seems to have leitaos feet


I was in hospital and missed the game (what a way to spend New Year's eve, especially when they couldn't find anything wrong), but I will say about that quote, the best way to do that is with WINGERS.
Last edited by Neil Ravenscroft on Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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WSOne
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:08 am

Murphy made some great saves today. Kicking was poor but the awful conditions didn't help.
Wright just isn't good enough; never has been, never will. He's not a defender simply because he can't tackle!
Bennett's much better in the middle and he does struggle further up the park. Not bad today though.
Emblen was solid again but still unconvinced about McShane. Perhaps too short to play centre-half?
Agree Standing's good coming forward but he has to work harder on his defending. Brilliant goal mind!
Osborn needs to keep it simple and make less mistakes. Broad really can't run and is very much a squad player.
Leitao seems finished but I hope I'm wrong. Robinson didn't play well but maybe it's because he's up front with Jorge?
Merson was fairly quiet; some stuff worked and some didn't. Thought Fryatt was quality when he came on.

Average performance. Two clear cut penalties not given by terrible referee. Draw's fair result.

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:10 am

Guest - the two penalties were absolutely clear cut.

The first one wasnt a lightweight header. Whichever player of ours it was, got to the ball first with his head, but was clearly chuved from behind, meaning he couldn't direct his header. Absolutley no doubt about that one, definate penalty.

Second was was a stone waller as well. Fryatt had got past their defender and was tugged back.

The ref was scared tho, if that had occured outside the area, he'd have given it.

If you watch the match of the day last night, and some proper refs, there were several decisions of penalties similar to ours that were given. Its just in this league the referees are of an awful standard, and yesterday proved that.

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Stu
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:52 am

I was too busy recovering from New Years Eve to go, but according to Merson he only thinks one was clear cut. My brother said the 2nd was more a penalty than then first, but he didn't think either were stone wall. On SaddlersWorld, Mick Kearns said he felt neither were penalties.

Personally, I'd rather concentrate on why we're having to question a dodgy Ref after a 1-1 draw with Doncaster. I'd rather concentrate on why we have no Plan B if Merson is having an off day or what it will take for Merson/Barlow to realise that we are susceptible to attacks down the flank.

We've got away with our fair share of decisions this season and we've earnt our fair share because of Merson's influence. So I don't think we can complain too much. We should be more worried about the performance.

That upturn in form can now quite clearly be put down to playing some cack teams, not because we've turned the corner. Yet, thanks to the abysmal standard of this division, we're still nearer the Play Offs than relegation.

I don't think the standard of Refs has been abysmal. To be honest, its been better than I thought. Refs make the same amount of mistakes as players do, which is to be expected. No Ref will be perfect, just as no player is perfect. Some Refs are better than others, some are more consistent than others, some are inconsistent over the course of 90 minutes. They're human, its to be expected, just as players making mistakes is to be expected. To blame Refs is poor in my view.

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:17 pm

Absolutely agree about the penalties. Considering that several times in the game the Ref managed to interpret perfectly good ball-winning challenges as fouls, I fail to see how he could possibly have judged that those two were not fouls. Outside the box he would have given them, so why should they be judged differently in the penalty area - what's the difference?

He was frankly awful at times, totally inconsistent, stopped play in "advantage" situations and let it go on when there was no advantage, gave free kicks for perfect tackles, missed numerous elbows and shirt-pulling incidents; he even watched from close-in as Jorge got kicked in the head on the ground right in front of me. The Donny player's legs were flailing around kicking out at anything and everything in sight to prevent Jorge getting up and away with the ball, but still the Ref saw nowt wrong - unbelievable. Jorge ends up with blood running down his face from what appeared to be a cut on his temple, and for two or three minutes we're down to ten men - cheers Ref, you're a star!

For the second game running I could not believe that no substitutions were happening - OK on this occasion we did finally get Matty on in place of the ineffective Robinson ( though to be fair to him did we ever put a cross in to take advantage of his main strength? ) - but why did we wait so long.

Any why, with Jorge missing the chances that came his way, and clearly not at his best, did Herivelto not get a run in the second-half. When we finally got on top late-on, Donny were kicking the ball anywhere in desperation (anyone count how many balls went out of the ground over the stands? It seemed like I'd never seen so many in one game ). Harry's pace and trickery might just have made that difference - it certainly seemed worth a try - but no!

Four games in eight days, Merson concerened about players getting tired, but once again we fail to use the full quota of substitutes - OK it was better than Tuesday, but still well short of good tactical nous. Can't Merse and Barlow sort this out between themselves?

Now - the old Osborn chestnut again - somebody above said "99% awful again". All I can say to that is "rubbish and nonsense" - he had a decent game again, though not as good as against Tranmere. Give the guy a break and get off his back - there were a number of players that were not committed enough and/or played poorly yesterday, but Ozzie wasn't one of them. At least I didn't hear anyone booing him though, which made a pleasant change.

Unless we show an unexpected and drastic improvement tomorrow I can only see a defeat at Griffin Park - so it looks like being 1 point from 12 over the festive period. Disastrous really, and for me any serious chance of the play-offs has been chucked down the drain in 8 days following a good run that had brought us within striking distance. It's a dream that's turned into a nightmare - NO chance now IMHO. :cry:

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Mike T.
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:30 pm

Missed Tranmere but went yesterday. I thought it was an entertaining game with a draw a fair result allowing for the fact we were hanging on for dear life at times. Murphy earned his wages with that double/triple save in the second half.
I dont understand how the team could be described as effortless - 3 games in 6 days caught up with certain players which was to be expected and indeed was predicted by many on the message board. However Standing, Osborne, Broad, Emblen, and the defence in general gave it their all. Whether it was good enough is a matter of opinion but I dont think they should be criticised for a lack of effort.
Mark Wright seems to have come in for a fair bit of blame but McShane seems to need an eternity to clear the ball. I believe it was his clearance which was charged down leading to the cross for Bennetts own goal. Then again I think it was Wright who played the ball back to McShane - perhaps just poor defending overall.
I thought whilst we finished quite stongly with the introduction of Fryatt there was a number of tired players at the end. Not too sure if there is the possibility of resting/dropping individuals - is Wracky available and can Bennett play? Did he have to go off because he needed stitches?

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:47 pm

Why have we signed Harry? If he can't get a kick when we play 3 games in 6 days when will he?
Once again Merson has talked the talk but when it has come down to it he doesn't deliver. Like Stu says there is a total lack of a plan B and THAT is the problem. Merson is like an office manager who employs staff but then does all his own filing, answers the phones, makes the tea...that is not management.
He isn't getting anything like the best out of these players. The underpinning of the revival was Merson having several good games with god knows how many assists to his name. That is plan A, when it doesn't work we have nothing else to offer, and against the better teams it doesn't work.
I'll back PM so long as he is at Walsall as I would any other manager who is doing his best - but I have a different tack on the rest of this season being a write off, which it will be soon I fear. Lets get a proper manager in and give him 20 games to get things ready for next season instead of wasting any more time and money. Bonser has backed Merson, the fans have supported him. Make no mistake this is Merson's team playing to Merson's plan. Why is it going to get better with time? As Merson gets older and slower we will go down the pan with him if we carry on with this nonsense. We undoubtedly have the players to play a different system although lacking on the left side, if he hasn't got the wherewithalls to at least try it he will never make a manager.

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:57 pm

Mike T. wrote:Missed Tranmere but went yesterday. I thought it was an entertaining game with a draw a fair result allowing for the fact we were hanging on for dear life at times. Murphy earned his wages with that double/triple save in the second half.
I dont understand how the team could be described as effortless - 3 games in 6 days caught up with certain players which was to be expected and indeed was predicted by many on the message board. However Standing, Osborne, Broad, Emblen, and the defence in general gave it their all. Whether it was good enough is a matter of opinion but I dont think they should be criticised for a lack of effort.
Mark Wright seems to have come in for a fair bit of blame but McShane seems to need an eternity to clear the ball. I believe it was his clearance which was charged down leading to the cross for Bennetts own goal. Then again I think it was Wright who played the ball back to McShane - perhaps just poor defending overall.
I thought whilst we finished quite stongly with the introduction of Fryatt there was a number of tired players at the end. Not too sure if there is the possibility of resting/dropping individuals - is Wracky available and can Bennett play? Did he have to go off because he needed stitches?


Mike, merse cannot use the ballshit of 3 games in 6 days. EVERYBODY else in the league are faced with the same problem. But the same effortless display from certain players is what we have come to expect from the so called pros this season. Time and time again they show theyre consistently inconsistent, before the festive period we had a chance to push up the league but we have faced 3 decent teams and have failed to match them. The only time we have showed promise is when we have played below average teams and even in some of them games we struggled. Mid Table mediocrity this season, lets just hope merse can ship out the so called pros and get the battlers back that over the years we have come to expect from a Walsall side.

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:22 pm

You miss the point - it's him that wants them! He talked about changes after the Tranmere game of dropping those who let their heads drop and what happened? Aranalde got dropped (Wrack was injured). As Geordie said, the whole problem is no plan B and he's also right that this is Merson's team playing Merson's tactics. The engine room yesterday was him, two players he brought in and Osborn, who he obviously rates, as he picked him ahead of Kinsella, even with a broken nose. Up front we had one player he brought in, plus the man who he said was "first on" his team sheet! At the back, we had one he brought in (on loan) and two he gave chances to, including the player he said was "different class" as a right back. IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM IT IS OF HIS MAKING AND NO ONE ELSES! If he does decide to "ship out the so called pros and get the battlers back that over the years we have come to expect from a Walsall side", any idea who he'd bring in? Presumably the same sort of players he has so far!

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:33 pm

neil I wont defend merse if i dont think hes right BUT the same players let lee down last season and alot are losin merse down aswell.
all of the players below sometime this season or all season have showed effortless displays like they did last, and I fail to realise ho both Lee and Merse can be at fault for this.
Bazeley-
Zigor-
Ozzie-
Wrack-
Jorge-
Birch-

I hope by the start of next season everyone mentioned is at another club. Obviously apart baze and birch that have already gone.

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:27 pm

i totally agree with the notion that we have no tactical nous. We don't seem to have a clue.

Firstly we play with very little width, the only time we use the wings are when bennett and wright finally got up that far from defence. By then, every one has got back and are facing out waiting for the cross, making it easier to defend. If we had wingers, we'd be able to play them out wide earlier, get an early cross in to forward moving forwards, giving the defence trying to get back a much harder task to defend.

Our only outlet going forward is down the middle whilst Jorge and Marv are on. When fryatt comes on, he makes excellent diagonal runs, and causes problems.

It's hard to put my finger on it, but we simply have no idea from a tactical point of view. Our substitutions seem planned, or forced. That game was screaming out for a change upfront - so why when we've got two strikers on the bench, do we only use one of them.

Mers is still not a good manager.He's slowly improving the playing XI [marvin and mcshane] but we're still losing matches for very simple footballing reasons.

we pack 4 men in to the midfield. not one is a winger. At least 3 of them, you have to question their input. You choose which three [mers, broad, standing or osborne] but each one doesn't quite pull their weight in some way or another. Merson can create a bit of magic, but the rest of the time, we might aswell have ten men on the field. They're all too small and weak, not one of them commands the midfield. If you pack 4 men in the central area of midfield, you'd expect to run the middle of the park, and be exposed on the flanks, but we're not even running the middle of the pitch. We lost out on 50:50's, and far too often we give the ball away.

There is still far too little movement from our players. Too often our players are flat footed, too slow, second to the ball e.t.c. This can be worked on in training.

Whatsmore, Merson still doesn't know what his best side is. For me it would not include either osborne or Wright. For me, those are the two biggest liabilities in the squad. Jorge has done nothing of late to prove he's worth his place, and you'd have thought with harry coming in, if jorge had a poor game, harry would be given his chance.

What really depresses me is when i was the championship on a sunday morning, the teams you see on that program play proper football. each player knows his role, and they work as a team.

For us, most of the time it's just hit it and hope.The lack of movement upfront gives merson nothing to work with, the liabilities in defensiveness are exploited every match, yet the only all we've done since the start of the season is sign an 18 year old man utd youngster on a one month deal.

We did not once defend a corner convincingly yesterday, and although we should have had two penalties, we only had one shot on target and that went it.

The team performances have got to improve. We need to sign a strong defensive midfielder to sit in front of the defence [osborne and kinsella obviously arent good enough], we must sign a right back, preferably one who weighs more than 6 stone, can head the ball, and has the slightest modocom of defensive nous. Upfront, Leitao for me is too unfit, fryatt and marv should be the starting too, i think given time, fryatts movement and trickery coupled with marv's strength and presence would flourish.

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:41 pm

i understand what people say about osborne & kinsella (who i think has to be the most dissapointing signing we have ever made). How about this for an idea (probably to be shot down in flames). Why not play mcshane, roper or bennett as a middle 2 at the back, and think about playing neil emblen as the holding midfield player in front of them? he is strong, puts himself about,decent in the air, and is not a bad user of the ball. Would give us a bit mor strength in the midfield, hopefull yto allow the likes of Merse & Standing to use their undoubted skill futher up the pitch.
Just another quick pojnt, i have a friend of darren wrack,s who tells me that he has been out on the p!ss all week, and this so called injury/flu (merson excuse) is all b0ll0cks!!! Anybody know anything????

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Stu
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:56 pm

Emblen has no agility or mobility, i think its the daftest idea possible yet folk keep saying it.

He'd be completely swamped playing there. There is a reason he hasn't played there for over 3 years.

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:27 pm

One step forward, two steps back.

That just about sums up our season so far, and (if you like) our history!

Like most of us, I though twe had turned the corner before the Wednesday game and was looking forward to the club climbing the table.
One point from nine, not much hope of getting any tomorrow, has ruined all the progress we have (I thought) made.

For someone who has been playing this game as long as Merson has, you would think he would know something about tactics. Most of the time he has'nt got a clue. As a team we rely too heavily on him, he can't or won't defend, accuses others of dropping their heads and does precisely the same thing himself
We have the weakest full backs in the league, the slowest midfield and nothing consistent up front.
We don't utilize the pace we have at the club, Harry, Taylor, Fryatt, Robinson and the new signing. I'd like to see Taylor and Harry on the flanks, taking on defenders and supplying crosses to Matty and Marvin.

I just don't think that Merson is right for the job. Talks a good game, doesn't deliver! Way too soft. Tactically inept, doesn't know when to substitute and, worst of all, has totally lost the players respect. It's difficult, if not impossible, to do a good job when you don't repect your boss.

There is still a lot of dead wood at this football club. Players going through the motions and not contributing, not guilty about picking up their wages and knowing that this manager is not going to replace them.

One of my biggest fears before the season began is exactly what is happening now, mediocrity! We would be doomed to this league for years.
Everyone expected at least the playoff's, anything else would be abject failure. We had to get promoted quickly.
Given the way we are playing, can anyone see the playoff's, or better?

I'm afraid that I can't

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Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:33 pm

Anonymous wrote:Just another quick pojnt, i have a friend of darren wrack,s who tells me that he has been out on the p!ss all week, and this so called injury/flu (merson excuse) is all b0ll0cks!!! Anybody know anything????


Darren Wrack is often drinking when he's not chain smoking but he was genuinely ill yesterday.

David you mention the 1 point from 9. I thought all of those games were easily winnable if the team had shown just a little determination and effort.

Look where would have been if we had taken all the points. Right where this team should be.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:48 pm

wfc, look at yesterday's team:-

Murphy - bought in by Merson, Wright - given a chance in the squad by Merson, McShane - brought in by Merson, Emblen - a Lee signing, but blameless, Bennett - given his chance by Merson, Broad - brought in by Merson, Osborn - picked by Merson ahead of his own signing Kinsella, Standing - brought in by Merson, Leitao - "the first name on" Merson's team sheet, Robinson - brought in by Merson and Merson himself. How could that have been remotely anything to do with the "players who let Lee down last season"? IT WAS MERSON'S TEAM AND MERSON'S TACTICS yesterday, and it must be his fault, pure and simple! I'm getting tired of people keep finding yet another excuse for him.

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Mike T.
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:19 pm

Wfc - I am not aware of Merse using 3 games in 6 days as an excuse/reason that was just me. I interpreted your opening message as a criticism of the whole team for a lack of effort. This also now seems to have been repeated by MMF. You now seem to have added "by certain individuals" as the thread has continued. Only 2 of the players you listed actually played yesterday which was all I was commenting on and whilst I agree with you about Jorge who just doesn't seem to be the same player, I cant agree about Ossie on yesterday's game.

My concern was always how Merse would cope with 4 in 8 days because as Geordie and no doubt others have said he was the "creative" source behind the pre Christmas upturn. Maybe tomorrow is a chance to try out a plan B - if it exists - and give Harry a run. But didn't we all used to criticise him for his lack of defensive qualities?

I know Neil, we are back to the balance of the squad. However I would go with Robinson and Fryatt up front and "rest" Jorge.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:55 pm

As you know, my two biggest criticisms of him have to be the lack of balance in the squad and the total lack of a plan "B". We are suffering more and more from both.

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Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:36 pm

And the problem will only get worse.
As Merse continues his building of the squad to play this absurd 4-4-1-1, he continues to show signs of his age.
If, as some believe, we will be better next season when Merse has had the chance to get rid of the dead wood and bring in new, will we still be relying on him to provide all the creativity?
Will he even still be playing?

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Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:41 pm

He's not playing 4-4-1-1 phil.

If he was we wouldn't have many problems. He's playing 4-3-1-2 which is causing all our problems because our midfield is always overun and has no width so we get killed in midfield just like we are again today at Brenford according to commentary.

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Stu
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:16 pm

Hang on, your just freely admitting that our midfield is over-run and has no width, hence we're always killed. Yet you give Simon Osborn a lot of stick for being crap, yet your saying he is in a midfield thats over-run.

Otherwise, I agree and your right. They mullered us today, their bald headed No 7, Eddie Hutchinson, was all over the place.

If Osborn had put in that performance that Kinsella did, then Osborn would have been lynched before he got off the pitch.

My old man is usually quite level headed, whilst driving me home this afternoon on his way back, he actually said he felt that relegation was still a real problem. Worryingly, I think we have less points than we did at this stage last season.

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Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:34 pm

The only saving grace is that the teams below us in this division are poor and aren't good enough to capitalise on our poor results. Last year the teams below us always had enough about them to catch us up, overtake us.

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