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Barnsley (a) - League - 28th March 2005

Reports and reaction from the 2004-05 season as Walsall finished 14th in League 1
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Cheesebag
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:03 pm

hullsaddler wrote:We should have gone in 0-0 at half time,it looked like pretty shoddy goalkeeping from where I was sitting,Oakes just didnt seem to get down to cover a 20 yd shot that went under him



Took a wicked deflection on the way through, Hull.

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Dave Gittins
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:06 pm

Cheesebag

It is all very good saying that a win is a must on Saturday, on current form I am struggling to see when we are going to win again. Apart from the obvious run of defeats one of the most annoying things is seeing us throw away points when they are there for the taking. While safety is only a couple of wins away, the drop is also only a couple more defeats away.

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Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:11 pm

Hate to be the purveyor of doom and gloom , but I think we're going down.

I can see Wrexham , in decent form , fighting like mad to correct the "injustice" of their position and with Ugarte scoring for fun , getting 4 wins out of their last 8 games , maybe a draw too , gives them 51 points .

As long as we dont lose against Torquay ( big if ) I dont see them overtaking us , so we need 52 points . ( Similarities with last season are frightening)

So 2 wins 2 draws from last 6 games? No chance. Down.

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Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:12 pm

Geoff, I thought that too - at Slough, against Oldham but we LOST. After being so disappointed at last seasons's disaster I am being realistic. We are quite cappable of losing to Torquay and Stockport. We are just cack at the moment.

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Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:30 pm

Dave Gittins wrote:Cheesebag

It is all very good saying that a win is a must on Saturday, on current form I am struggling to see when we are going to win again. Apart from the obvious run of defeats one of the most annoying things is seeing us throw away points when they are there for the taking. While safety is only a couple of wins away, the drop is also only a couple more defeats away.


I'm just calling it how I saw it. for 20 minutes in the second half we looked like promotion pushers.... it's just the other 70 minutes :cry:

Boris
 

Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:31 pm

I am really sorry to say this - but I said it shortly after Walker got sent off last season - this club has the smell of doom about it.

Usually one club falls quickly from relative safety and goes down. It was us last year and may be us again.

The last two defeats have confirmed what I think I knew about 3 weeks ago - we are in big trouble and probably likely to go down.

It is almost IDENTICAL to last season. With 8 games to go you think it can't possibly happen (remeber that fluky win away at Derby, dancing around the living room shouting "we are staying up", surely we are safe now...). Well, it can, and it very may will again.

This is unthinkable.

Got to back Merse now. I have come around to thinking that he is a disaster for this club, but its got to be 100% support from now on.

No more moaning, no more slagging off. Back the Saddlers. They need YOU.

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YGA Saddler
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:41 pm

Just got back from Barnsley and Im speechless.
We didnt play too bad once we changed the formation, just a question we have got so many central midfielders at the club why did Pead play there today?! I thought he was brought in to replace Wrighty? Pead looked out of place today got pushed off the ball so easy.
Darren Wrack was useless AGAIN. I agree with everything everybody says it could be so easy to jump on merson's back like we did with Lee last year but that made players play worse than they did throughout the season. I just think for the best interest of OUR club would be to stick by these players that dont care for OUR club and by a man that is dragging us down, JUST FOR 6 MATCHES. Once we are safe then show the club,players and manager how we feel.

Merse has got us in this mess now we are in it together, so lets get behind them. I dont think any of us deserve league 2 football.

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Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:50 pm

So thats another cup final out of the way isn't it Merse? It has now come to the stage where in the bookies, the safest bet is to back Chelsea, Celtic/Rangers and whoever Walsall r playing. We r guaranteed to lose whoever we play and if we play away then might as well put a big bet on
As usual our formation changed and as usual changes to the team. Can u think of any other football league club that approaching the end of the season, is still trying to find out its best team and to find out its best formation?

Defensively again we were rubbish. Oakes made another blunder and if he isn't careful, will join the Walsall goalkeepers circus of clowns whose members so far include Petterson, Mckinney, Paston and Murphy. On average, a crap struggling team scores 1-2 goals per game against us, an average midtable team scores 2-3 goals per game against us and a decent team gets 3+ against us. Only Walsall can replace 2 crap players like Aranalde and Wright with a couple who r even worse in Pead and Perpetuni. Again, referee made a diabolical decision but has anyone noticed how often Emblem has given away free kicks and penaulties in the 2nd half of the season because he is too slow and lumbering. Like Bazeley and Osborn, this was a season too far for him. I was far more concerned that after they missed their penaulty, how the whole team fell asleep from the rebound and Barnsley scored their winner. Midfield wise apart from Merse we were useless, as usual. Wright as usual gave the ball away, crossed like a pub player and missed a great chance at the end. But don't worry we'll have Wright and Broad next season helping us avoid relegation to the Vauxhall Conference! Up front, no complaints. In Joachim, Jorge and Fryatt we have an above average strike force for this division and it was a superb finish by Joachim today. But i can't see him joining us to play division 2 football next season, can u?

Who on earth were these people phoning WM? After all that has happened, for them to say Merse sud stay on in the close season, shows how some people r living in a different solar system let alone planet. It looks like at least people on this site have looked at the table and realised what a huge mess we r in. Oldham had a great win today against Hull and will soon b out of sight. The Franchise had a great win at Bournemouth today and now only goal difference separates us from them and they r loking very hard to beat home and away. Wrexham r 6 points behind us but r not on a crap run like us, and have 2 games in hand on us and have a far better manager than us in Dennis Smith who has seen it all before and have the striker Ugarte who is scoring goals for fun. Some people have got it into their heads that if we beat a super crap Torquay team(who got thrashed again today) that this will b enough to stay up. No it won't. First of all we have failed recently to beat other crap teams like Franchise, Wrexham, Blackpool, Torquay, Port Vale and Oldham so what makes people think we will beat Torquay? Even if we do, we still need 4 further points to stay up. 1-2 wins will not b enough. One thing is for sure, if we draw or lose to Torquay then its game over whatever anyone says. Nothing less than 3 points will do on Saturday

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Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:18 pm

COXDRUMMIE wrote:Listened to the commentary and have just heard the most absurd thing i think ive ever heard. The travelling Walsall supporters clapped the team off for losing a game. I just can't believe that, i really can't. Especially after they completely threw the game away with rank bad lazy play.


Unbelievable it was Coxy. Its one thing to clap a couple of times but some people seemed overjoyed with yet another loss and were happy to sing Paul Merson's barmy army. One guy behind me walking down the steps was shouting "Unlucky Paul, unlucky, keep it up. F*** off ref you were crap"

Unlucky? Un-f******lucky? Open your bloody eyes you penfold lookalike. There was no luck about it. We let Barnsley cruise into a two goal lead then we get a lucky break and score a couple of goals and suddenly everyone forgets just how shyte we are and gets carried away. The players actually looked interested and inspired after we scored the second but it only lasted about 10 minutes before we slipped back into comfort zone and let Barnsley back into it.

Their first goal was a joke, we watched, and watched and watched a bit more...in fact we had time to post a letter inviting their defender to shoot and shoot he did. It took a couple of deflections so it would be hard to blame Oakes. I blame midfield for not doing their job and closing down.

Their second was also poor on our behalf. A good ball was played out to Merson who because of laziness waited for it to come to him instead of the meeting the ball like you should do (this happened 4/5 times today). So because he waited the defender nipped in took the ball away while Merson blames the pass, a blade of grass for slowing the ball or a worm for popping up and stopping the ball reaching him instead of what any fit worthwhile midfielder would do and chase the opposition player and win the ball back. Huh, some chance.

And so to the winner...

A penalty it definitely was and I'm fed up with people blaming the referee for our results. Geoff its one thing to blame the ref like in the game against Palace last year when the team had given 110% but I refuse to use poor refereeing as an excuse when the team actually only bothered to put in 100% for about 10/15 minutes. They play when they want to and it p1sses me off. It WAS a penalty. Full stop. The ball was going out for a goal kick so why Emblen felt the need to shoulder barge him only he will know. Yes the player went down easily but Fryatt has won several penalties himself this season doing the same thing, its part of the game. If Emblen had jockeyed the ball out he wouldn't have any reason to dive. Not only that but we had the fortune of Chopra missing his second penalty in a couple of days yet instead of taking advantage and regrouping and clearing the ball we dilly and dally and let them get the ball in the box and score a simple goal.

Next week is make or break. I'm not writing Wrexham off yet as they have more quality than us but we really can't afford to lose to Torquay or we will go down as I predicted over a month ago now whil many more were still supporting Merson.

Not to worry, no doubt Merson will convince himself and many gullible fans that we were unlucky today. The ref, fate and everything was against us which is complete rubbish. The team played to their potential for 15 minutes like we have on so many occasions this season and you don't deserve to win on that basis.

You create your own luck through hard work Mr Merson and the sooner you realise it the better.

PS - Wright missed a great chance at the end but overall looked great to me. If only he'd played in that position all season, a real attacking threat, cutting in and getting some shots it.

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Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:46 pm

Well. Spent the day on autopilot watching Bath City. Unfortunatley I was being constantly texted about what was going on at Oakwell. I was not planning to come up for the match next week but I will be now. This is a time to put aside what we think about Merson and BACK THE TEAM. This is a must win game, but as I figure if we cannot garner at least 7 points from Torquay, Peterborough and Stockport then we do not deserve to stay up.

Heres's to Saturday....

Ace
 

Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:02 pm

Boris wrote:No more moaning, no more slagging off. Back the Saddlers. They need YOU.


We've been backing them since the first match of the season and it clearly didn't help then, how's it going to help now?

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:31 pm

Having seen the goals on Sky, I do have to say their second was a cracker. I know Merson gave the ball away cheaply (Osborn haters, please note), but the move was very, very slick.

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tinned
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:46 pm

AC_Loyalist wrote:
Boris wrote:No more moaning, no more slagging off. Back the Saddlers. They need YOU.


We've been backing them since the first match of the season and it clearly didn't help then, how's it going to help now?


Exactly, Andy. They talk about the need for us to vocally back the team as if it's cure to all ills. 'Cause if we shout and sing enough we just can't possibly lose can we ?

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:17 am

Magic Man Fan - a brilliant post. Is it bad luck that we are 19th, no its because we are shite.

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geoffwhiting
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Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:44 am

MMF, I saw the Emblem challenge just once on Sky tonight, and my first thought would definitely have been a penalty, so fair enough.

I'd like to see it again though, the two players closed in on one another from about a 45 degree angle, so which one was most entitled to get the ball I'm still not 100% sure.

Either way, the penalty was missed, and the play that followed took much longer than was suggested on WM, so I'd say we had ample chance to clear the ball before the cross into the box that left their man totally unmarked in the centre of goal - rank poor defending, at a time we should have been concentrating hard.

Must agree their second goal was pure quality.

Joachim's goal too, absolutely brilliant finish, and he turned away from his marker so-o-o-o-o well - pure class !

Someone on here has described our two goals as "lucky", well that is rubbish frankly, Joachim's was full of pace and a great strike - Jorge's was from a precision cross from a Merson free kick that exposed their defence just as much as ours was exposed for their winner.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:45 am

Again, thanks to Sky Sports News, you're right, MMF, penalty it was.

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:03 am

If you take away Wrexham and Northwich, who have both had points deducted, then across all the leagues that Statmail covers (Prem, FL, Conf, SPL), only Farnborough have a worse current form than us.

17 Port Vale 8 2 3 3 8 9 -1 9 L L W L D D W D

18 Chesterfield 8 2 3 3 12 15 -3 9 L W L D W D D L

19 Hartlepool United 8 2 1 5 11 14 -3 7 W L L L L W L D

20 Stockport County 8 2 0 6 11 17 -6 6 L W L W L L L L

21 Peterborough United 8 1 2 5 7 18 -11 5 L L W L D L L D

22 Torquay United 8 0 3 5 8 23 -15 3 D L L D L L D L

23 Walsall 8 0 2 6 4 12 -8 2 D L D L L L L L

24 Wrexham 8 2 4 2 15 15 0 0 D D L D D W W L

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 am

Sorry Geoff, wasn't having a go at you personally! I'm just fed up with people using the referee as an excuse. We're not good enough and Merson should take ALL of the blame.

It was also me who said the goals were lucky but I didn't mean it in that way. Joachim's goal was quality, he was patient ignored the defenders around him and finished like no one else we have in the squad could. The second goal was also quality, a great ball from Merson and a good header from Jorge although unmarked.

What I meant about being lucky Geoff is that we were lucky Barnsley took their foot off the pedal for a while. If they'd have kept the pressure on we'd have got beat 4 or 5.

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:02 am

I don't understand this argument that it would be folly to change the manager now. To me a change of manager now would guarantee we stay up, and if Merson is going after the season (please God) then what's the point in gambling the future of the club by keeping him in charge and inviting the possibility that we might go down?
Give me Ray Lewington until the end of the season, Chris Nichol, anyone whose imediately available. The only possibility of us getting relegated is if Merson remains in charge.

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Re: Barnsley (a) - League - 28th March 2005

Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:14 am

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:Match preview now on line. I've gone for a defeat, as every time I say win, we lose.


... And when you go for 'lose' we lose anyway. Think your on a hiding to nothing there neil.

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:08 am

Geordiesaddler wrote:I don't understand this argument that it would be folly to change the manager now. To me a change of manager now would guarantee we stay up, and if Merson is going after the season (please God) then what's the point in gambling the future of the club by keeping him in charge and inviting the possibility that we might go down?
Give me Ray Lewington until the end of the season, Chris Nichol, anyone whose imediately available. The only possibility of us getting relegated is if Merson remains in charge.


I do think there is a valid reason for getting rid now, that being the introduction of the transfer window.

We've got 8 or 9 players in contract for next season, so we've got to find another 12-14 at least to beef up the squad and get a reserve team. And as the transfer window will close on 31st August and the season starts in August, there isn't much time. Bearing in mind most clubs are probably talking to and narrowing down who they want to sign already, we need to move quick.

If Merson is to be sacked, it needs to be within a week of the season ending, if not before. As we need to appoint a new manager, he'll want to bring the team in early to see who stays and who goes, who he needs to sign and who he doesn't. Appointing somebody in early June would give just 8 weeks to assess the squad, get rid, bring in and complete pre-season before season starts. With another 3/4 weeks to then decide what else he needs.

I'd expect Bonser to announce either his departure, or his signing of a 6 month contract till Xmas, within a week or 2 of the season ending. I think it'll be a 6 month contract till Xmas, giving him a full pre season with his players and the chance to prove himself. If it doesn't work, he goes at Xmas when we can still turn it around and he can find another club in the transfer window.

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:32 am

That is a very real possibility Stu, but I dont think Merson will accept it.

The club constantly talks of supporting its manager etc. What message would it send out if we offered him a 6 month contract?

"We don't really have confidence in you, so we're giving you a last chance saloon style-chance, with a get out clause at the mid season point"

We've all known he aint good enough for a while now, some more than others, and Merson's excuses have worn out on us - so the board of directors, remember, theyre not stupid, they can see what we see, they hear what we hear.

My belief is that post - colchester, the board didnt seriously considered the resignation offer, as they thought it was a blip, a learning curve so to speak, and refused to offer out of hand saying "we're fully behind you paul"

Moving forward a bit, since colchester, P 11, W 2, D 3, L 6, Pts 9 [from a possible 33].

Since Colchester it has become apparent to even the most ardent Pro-PM fans that the man has very very little ability to coach and manage a football team.

The board have listened to PM's complaints, ie, not my players, bad luck etc, and since then, we have signed 5 players on loan, and one permanently.

Any complaints PM has now will surely fall on deaf ears with the B.o.D. Theyve backed him, theyve supported him, and the run of form since xmas has been atrocious to put it mildly.

Now, I believe that he has lost his job already. I really do believe that. From my opinion of the way things have gone since his resignation offer, to the way Whalley reacted to the "new contract" question on WM on saturday, they wont offer him a new contract.

Torquay is a must win, and i will be 200% behind the lads, as i am every match, but i really hope my faith in Jb is justified and that they wont offer the worst manager we've had in recent history a new contract.

When Bonser said a few weeks ago 'the only way he wont be manager next season is if we are relegated', that statement is based on confidence that we wouldn't be in such trouble at this stage of the season - now that we are, it's a different issue. Whalley's interview on WM the other day confirmed that.

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:01 pm

When you step back from the situation we are in and imagine that its happening to someone else it really is unbelievable. I just can't believe after what I've watched this season that I'm sitting here going into April and he's still in charge, with the possibility he couild be in charge next season. The respective boards at MK Dons, Barnsley, Oldham etc. have all acted to rectify their managerial failings and moved on yet we go on and on tolerating the unacceptable just for no logical reason whatsoever.

How the hell did JB contrive to knock back his resignation after Colchester? Even Barry Fry is about to do the decent thing and he's bleedin self-employed!

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:28 pm

Stu, just to correct a small point, Mick Halsall said at the Meet the Manager Evening (sic) we probably won't be running a reserve team next season.

David Potter
 

Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:50 pm

Does anyone remember what happened last Easter weekend? Totally switched off against Burnley and Gillingham which led to our demise.

It'a painfully obvious the Merson is dragging this club into the football abyss. What's even more painful....the owner is doing nothing about it.
We have people on here actually wanting him back next season...absolutely astonishing!
I hear folks saying give him a few more months. If we all lived for eternity, Merson would never be a successful manager...he doesn't have what it takes!!

I agree we all need to get behing him and the team until the end of the season. Then we need to push his behind out of the club!

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:31 pm

My view almost precisely David. I think it is too late to change NOW - it would not have been too late 3 to 4 weeks ago, but I fear the disruption of a change going into these last six matches would be more harmful than chancing PM against Torquay, Peterborough and Stockport. Mind you if we lose on Saturday my last remnants of faith will probably disappear, and I don't know, I just might change my mind and support bringing in Chris Nicholl immediately. That's on the basis that if we can't beat Torquay at Bescot, we ain't gonna pick up any more points before match no. 46, and however we look at it, that would be much too little much too late.

Either way, once the season is out, it should IMMEDIATELY be made clear to PM that he is not getting a new contract, not until August, not until Christmas, NOT AT ALL. As Stu says, we can't afford to waste time in recruiting the right players for 2005/06. If it ain't going to be Merson's team (as I hope it won't) then he shouldn't be left in charge long enough to start thinking about recruiting any more.

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:42 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:Stu, just to correct a small point, Mick Halsall said at the Meet the Manager Evening (sic) we probably won't be running a reserve team next season.


Really? Is that wise move? Does that mean we're going to push out all up and coming youngsters straight into loan deals, eg, start them off at Bromsgrove and work them up the ladder if they're good enough?

Is there any chance of full (or nearly full) minutes from that Q&A session.

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:20 pm

Agree that it would be stupid to get rid of reserves even if there is a cost saving.It would be a false economy.Where are fringe players/those returning from injury etc meant to hone their match fitness other than in a reasonably competitive situation? Presumably the only place to impress the manager (whoever it is) would be in training.

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:27 pm

I'm not so sure Hull.

Mick Halsall said that they get offers from clubs every day to play behind closed doors friendlies at Bescot so we would greatly reduce costs and be able to pick our opposition which would hopefully be to a better standard than the reserves so we can have a better idea as to whether players on the fringe of the first team are up to it.

Its not brilliant but I can see the logic in it.

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:44 pm

It was on WM for an hour from 9 til 10. Mick Halsall came over as a man that new what he wanted for our club but was too afraid to do it. He said Wrighty shouldnt be played as a right back and he was a good athlete that deserved to play in a more attacking role. He also made an interesting point that IT was the older pl,ayers that have let the club down and that we should give merson another chance. Although when Mark Regan asked if merson should be given another chance the majority of the room said no.
It was interesting but would have been better if merse had faced the fans. Good to see in the paper merse said saturday might be his last as manager of this club.

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