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Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 9:53 am

As he can't be @rsed to turn up to any of the last 7 or 8 A.G.M.s why should he bother with such trivia as football matches or end-of-season awards evenings?

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 10:00 am

He didn't make it to Notts County!!!

Good grief!

He makes Ken Wheldon look like a man of the people.

Do people honsetly wonder why, with such a passionless and disinterested figurehead, the club finds it so hard to constructively address issues of disinterest and lack of passion within the town, and even within the club itself??

In my experience businesses often mirror the personality and attitude of their leadership, Walsall FC is a perfect example.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 5:08 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:He didn't make it to Notts County!!!

Good grief!

He makes Ken Wheldon look like a man of the people.

Do people honsetly wonder why, with such a passionless and disinterested figurehead, the club finds it so hard to constructively address issues of disinterest and lack of passion within the town, and even within the club itself??

In my experience businesses often mirror the personality and attitude of their leadership, Walsall FC is a perfect example.


Exactly.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 5:21 pm

I dont understand the hatred for Mooney either.

For a player of his age, to put in a season like he has done is pretty impressive. Yes, he's stopped trying 100% since January, but why should he when he's been told he wont get a new contract despite being our only senior striker and top scorer? Why should he go out there and risk injury and the end of his career for a club that don't even want him around as player/coach next year. I know I certainly wouldn't be running my socks off - so I'm afraid I sympathise with him. The problem was caused by our attitude towards contracts.

The game was ok, played like a friendly. Dobsons goal was the culmination of a terific move started by Taundry, but I'm afraid after Mooneys goal we were simply awful and Hartlepool deserved something out of the game.

Great to see the banner.

Oh and 5021? Where were they all hiding? I know a few who were drinking in the Bonser suite, but that crowd was never over 5000 yesterday?

I'm really quite concerned now for next season. I think as a fan I'm at a very low ebb with the club, and the club are doing nothing to reassure me. Bonsers ramblings you must take with a pinch of salt. I'm just worried because we could go in to a very downwards spiral from here. We've all heard about the events last night at the awards ceremony.

TBH I can't see Gerrard starting next season with us, we've got no strikers, no midfield apart from Bradley and Ish. Weston, Taundry, Ince and Boertien.

I was worried with the standard of our squad at the start of this season, but my god, we've never ever [in my memory at least] needed to sign so many players capable of slotting straight in to the first team. I reckon, should Gerrard leave, we need 9 senior [I said senior, not OAP] players - and thats just to give us a squad of 16 for a matchday.

For the first time ever, I'm not looking forward to next season and kind of regretting spending £300 on a season ticket [especially after hearing some baggies fans have paid £299 for theirs!] - thats what Jeffery B has done to me, a 125% Walsall diehard.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 6:17 pm

So, Phil, it's acceptable for Mooney (club captain) to give up in January and not risk injury for the sake of his career as he'll be leaving soon, but it's not ok for JB to try to claw back as much of the money he's owed before a potential exit?

That's double standards for me. Neither is acceptable and one doesn't mitigate the other (actually JB's actions are marginally more tolerable as he doesn't have a contract obliging him to put in work in exchange for salary).

If the stuff that you believe about JB is true then he deserves much of the flak that he's receiving, but by the same token Mooney deserves everything he gets in the way of criticism as there can be no argument that he's stopped trying (his own statements to the press condemn him). And he deserves a guard of honour about as much as JB does - and far less than Ian Roper (or even Darren Wrack) would have done.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 7:00 pm

PH, the guard of honour thingy is typical of Walsall fans get their knickers in a twist about. You are of course technicaly right in what you say, but being right doesn't mean what you are on about doesn't provide a typical Walsall "lets get our knickers in a twist about this really important blah de blooh blah" scenario that perfectly deflects the attention away from where it should be.

We are complete, absolute rubbish, shamefully so.

I saw a Tommy Mooney (with hair) brush us aside in 93 whist in the Scarborough end, as I refused to pay their inflated prices for the away end that day. He has been a superb player throughout his career, and has done pretty well for us this season. You, who demands proof of every scenario, has no proof whatsoever that he "hasn't tried" since January, all you have is his record in a Walsall shirt that actually stacks up pretty well, and your opinion. Its about time that fans like yourself stopped talking about double standards and took a look at the standards you set yourself in your assesment of the bleeding obvious. You want proof of this that and the other when it comes to JB and the activity at Bescot, but are willing to accept any old heresay when it suits your argument about the likes of an individual player.

"hoist by your own petard", although hopefully not do ingraciously, it was afterall the last game of the season.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 7:11 pm

One we can see played out on the pitch every week (and lately in the papers), so we can all make our own minds up about without the need for further evidence. The other (which I accept will be scandalous if, as I now suspect, we don't invest sufficiently for next season) has largely been played out behind closed doors, so needs to be substantiated over a longer period (the truth is becoming more apparent and we'll know for sure by August) else it's just a whispering campaign.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 7:35 pm

philthesaddler wrote:I dont understand the hatred for Mooney either.

For a player of his age, to put in a season like he has done is pretty impressive. Yes, he's stopped trying 100% since January, but why should he when he's been told he wont get a new contract despite being our only senior striker and top scorer? Why should he go out there and risk injury and the end of his career for a club that don't even want him around as player/coach next year. I know I certainly wouldn't be running my socks off - so I'm afraid I sympathise with him. The problem was caused by our attitude towards contracts.


Oh come on Phil...if Westwood or Keates had have responded in the same way last season, you'd have hounded them out of the stadium. As he said when the thing first became an issue, "that is how Walsall do things, so I'll just have to prove to them I deserve a contract".

It isn't any 'lack of effort' that bothers me - he has scored as many goals as young players we'd snap up like Gillespie or Boyd - it is the constant bitching in the press long before the play-offs were gone that bothers me.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 8:31 pm

Plastic Hawk wrote:One we can see played out on the pitch every week (and lately in the papers), so we can all make our own minds up about without the need for further evidence. The other (which I accept will be scandalous if, as I now suspect, we don't invest sufficiently for next season) has largely been played out behind closed doors, so needs to be substantiated over a longer period (the truth is becoming more apparent and we'll know for sure by August) else it's just a whispering campaign.



Well not really. When you play football as a job, you automatically have 11 other people trying to stop you succeeding, to the extent that they chase you around, kick you, head-butt you, and try and break your legs. That doesn't happen in many other professions. Effort, or percieved effort doesn't therefore equate to achievement, especially when you are part of a team. When you own a football club, you have complete autonomy over the decision making. Although those decisions might be taken behind closed doors they are your decisions and you stand or fall by them as a n individual, there is nowhere to hide, although our owner tries very hard.

As for the press thing, I refer you to what JB has said in the press, its quite clear and undisputed, and only contradicted by himself.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 10:16 pm

Jorge14 wrote:It isn't any 'lack of effort' that bothers me - he has scored as many goals as young players we'd snap up like Gillespie or Boyd - it is the constant bitching in the press long before the play-offs were gone that bothers me.

I can appreciate that point, but I think he's been in the game long enough to know that there was no way we were ever going to make the playoffs. I think the likes of Bradley, Deeney and Nicholls knew that too. It's the likes of Holmes, Gerrard and Weston who I feel sorry for, as they'd basically been left to babysit the rest at the expense of the success they deserved.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Mon May 05, 2008 11:08 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:You, who demands proof of every scenario, has no proof whatsoever that he "hasn't tried" since January, all you have is his record in a Walsall shirt that actually stacks up pretty well, and your opinion.

Really, not true. Not by a long chalk. I don't know when you last went to a game but the Mooney of the last couple of months (in fact, almost to the day since his rant in the press about not getting a new contract) has been nothing like the Mooney up to that point. I agree with PH and to suggest our opinion counts for nothing is plain wrong. I've seen enough football and enough footballers to know when they are not trying and I'm sure PH does too. Mooney's captain. Mooney's influential. Get on with your job and if you don't want to do it then move to Spain and stop whingeing.

That said, if he can get away with it then, I suppose, who can blame him? But why wasn't he dropped? Why wasn't he stripped of the captaincy? Why wasn't he released on a free? Questions that can only be directed at his near-namesake.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 12:58 am

At The end of the day, i was prepared to give him a round of applause for 700 odd games in football, fair play to him for that.


But even if he was tiring, and a full season as a 36 year old is tough, i can still see if a player is trying. And the fact is he wasnt even bothering. Lots of people can see that.

If he put half as much effort into his playing that he doeshis geeing up the crowd stunt, then we wouldnt mind.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 9:48 am

My last game was Leeds away, when Mooney was atrocious.

I honestly don't care whether his poor performances are as a result of "not trying" since our season was destroyed by those behind the scenes. Its abundantly clear that the whole football club is in a state of self-induced disarray, and the Mooney situation is but an insignificant sideshow within that process. My point is how Walsall fans will latch on to any old scapegoat with vehemence, yet will tolerate any old guff from the powers that be unless unequivical proof is provided to the contrary. Its a remarkable phenomena, one that I've witnessed many times up and down the years.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 9:51 am

Ode to Finishing Twelfth
(Trad. English Arr. Johnny Mathis Lyrics: King Crimson)

(to the tune of 'Twelfth of Never')

You ask me how it happened, must I explain?
We needed you, Fox and Dann, to keep clean sheets again
You ask what about Ricketts, I'll tell you true
Down to the Twelfth of League One, our goals they dried up too.

We came close, but we let it go
We came close, but that we all know

I'll love you 'til the Baggies win the FA Cup
I'll love you 'til the Dingles sing "We are gooin' up!"
I'll love you 'til the Villa in Europe again play
Down to the Twelfth of League One and that's a long, long way

Down to the Twelfth of League One and that's a long, long way.


[/season]

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 10:19 am

Geordiesaddler wrote:My point is how Walsall fans will latch on to any old scapegoat with vehemence, yet will tolerate any old guff from the powers that be unless unequivical proof is provided to the contrary. Its a remarkable phenomena, one that I've witnessed many times up and down the years.

With respect, I couldn't disagree more. The only phenomena I've witnessed down the years is the ease with which any failing is blamed on Bonser.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 10:27 am

Registered Saddler wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:My point is how Walsall fans will latch on to any old scapegoat with vehemence, yet will tolerate any old guff from the powers that be unless unequivical proof is provided to the contrary. Its a remarkable phenomena, one that I've witnessed many times up and down the years.

With respect, I couldn't disagree more. The only phenomena I've witnessed down the years is the ease with which any failing is blamed on Bonser.


Me also.

I do find it strange that posters who are happy to jump up and down about Bonser's perceived lack of commitment seem to see criticism of anyone else for basically the same thing as scapegoating or merely a sideshow. I can see what happens of the pitch - and Mooney hasn't been trying. He's also badmouthed the club in the press. That's not compatible with his position as club captain. I've no idea what happens in the boardroom. That tends to emerge over time (and what's emerged in the last four months or so makes me progressively more concerned, but I'm not prepared to jump to conclusions).

Bonser's not some messiah without whom the club wouldn't exist, but he's not the devil incarnate either. I'm sure that he's made mistakes and deserves some of the blame for us not reaching the play-offs this season, but I remain convinced that if DD and the players had done their jobs properly since March that we could have picked up the 12 extra points that would've seen us into the top six, regardless of what JB got up to in the background (and we'd actually only have needed ten extra points if one of them had come against Southend or Leeds).

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 11:06 am

Well we clearly have different experiences on this issue, but there is no way JB could have enjoyed such a charmed 20 years on the board where the only tangible mutterings of discontent were 200 people chanting "Bonser Out" at Grimsby away in 1997, followed 11 years later by a banner at a home game! Ditto, the charmed life he gets in the press.

The longevity of the Merson era, and how JB escaped any tangible blame for that, ditto the CL fiasco (including the Ritchie situation), the raising of the rent from £30k per year to a whopping £379k per year during his ownership of the freehold, the fact that he gets away year after year with not turning up to the club's AGM, or games, or other key events.

You described on another thread how you weren't concerened with Bonser not turning up for games because you weren't interested in whether he was a fan. Sorry but its nothing to do with being a fan, fans pay to get in - its everything to do with being a Chairman. The chairman of a football club should be at the games representing the club, he should also be at the AGM, and the annual presentation evening. Its a disgraceful abdication of his responsibility as chairman to fail to turn up to such things, and by comparison a tee'd off 36 year old player asked to play on his own up front, one who was only ever going to last half a season, looking like he isn't trying for a few games is not even a drop in the ocean.

PH, if you think that I "jump up and down" about Bonser, then clearly you havn't read many of my posts on here over the years, which on the subject of JB have been largely in his defence. Its not about "jumping to conclusions", its about having a considered opinion, just like you have about the percieved lack of effort of the players and manager - despite the fact that to the best of my knowledge you have not actually spent any time in the dressing room or on the training ground. You might regard it as circumstancial evidence that since we got rid of most of our best players the team nosedived - and with it went the confidence, team-spirit, etc etc. You may regard what Mooney said as being Incompatible with being club -captain. Personally I was gratful for his opinion, it shed further light on our club's demise, and it was said on the eve of the (meaningless) last game when he was already on his way out.

Tommy Mooney has gone, his time in a Walsall shirt contained some good and some bad, his contribution to our much vaunted re-establishment at this level was significant given that he was top-scorer by a country mile, contributed many a key assist to result changing goals (Hartlepool away, Luton away, and last Saturday for example), and his attitude and leadership in the first half of the season was key to the process of us going from bottom place to top six.

That in itself doesn't warrant a "guard of honour", but the fact that this was his last game in an illustrious career maybe does, and that is that's what his fellow professionals thought about him, and irrespective of your opinion as a fan, they are entitled to express their personal admiration in that way if THEY think its appropriate.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 12:11 pm

There were never 200 people at Grimsby! Although in fairness I've wiped that day from my memory - apart from the obligatory fish and chips afterwards.

As you say, we are not going to agree so I won't labour the point. But I think the people getting things out of perspective are those playing the Bonser blame game. Sadly, that now seems to include the players who are happy to abdicate their responsibilities once they've found a suitably easy scapegoat for their own inadequacies over the last couple of months. It is to Money's credit that he didn't jump on that bandwagon once he'd left although I suggest he takes a look in Southend's direction for a praisee of where we went wrong. They were able to bring in canny loanees at the right time - Mulgrew, Walker, Clarke etc - who all made a contribution. Oh, and they pay at least £400,000 in rent.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 12:42 pm

I'm sure he did take (a rather envious) look in Southend's direction. No doubt they were able to make such signings because they the ability to do so within their playing budget. As a result they played better football, and won more games, and finished the season consistently getting around 2000 more people through the gate than during the winter months.

Now they have a full house to look forward to, maybe a trip to Wembley, and maybe promotion.

We finished 12th and have new sprinkler system at the training ground, doesn't really capture the imagination in the same way does it?

Still at least this discussion has the match thread edging towards 80 posts, even if we're not actually talking about the match.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 1:09 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:There were never 200 people at Grimsby! Although in fairness I've wiped that day from my memory - apart from the obligatory fish and chips afterwards.

As you say, we are not going to agree so I won't labour the point. But I think the people getting things out of perspective are those playing the Bonser blame game. Sadly, that now seems to include the players who are happy to abdicate their responsibilities once they've found a suitably easy scapegoat for their own inadequacies over the last couple of months. It is to Money's credit that he didn't jump on that bandwagon once he'd left although I suggest he takes a look in Southend's direction for a praisee of where we went wrong. They were able to bring in canny loanees at the right time - Mulgrew, Walker, Clarke etc - who all made a contribution. Oh, and they pay at least £400,000 in rent.


If people find themselves failing in any line of work they will look to other things to blame. This is the essence of good management, you don't give them anything else they can blame. Then where the source of blame lies is not open to debate and people know they have to work.

The bottom line for me is who made the decision to sell Scott Dann? If it was Money then fine let's blame him, but how many ambitious managers think, "Wow I've got a winning / successful team here, let's break it up in the last hour of the transfer window!"

If it wasn't money then who was it?

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 1:16 pm

PJD wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:There were never 200 people at Grimsby! Although in fairness I've wiped that day from my memory - apart from the obligatory fish and chips afterwards.

As you say, we are not going to agree so I won't labour the point. But I think the people getting things out of perspective are those playing the Bonser blame game. Sadly, that now seems to include the players who are happy to abdicate their responsibilities once they've found a suitably easy scapegoat for their own inadequacies over the last couple of months. It is to Money's credit that he didn't jump on that bandwagon once he'd left although I suggest he takes a look in Southend's direction for a praisee of where we went wrong. They were able to bring in canny loanees at the right time - Mulgrew, Walker, Clarke etc - who all made a contribution. Oh, and they pay at least £400,000 in rent.


If people find themselves failing in any line of work they will look to other things to blame. This is the essence of good management, you don't give them anything else they can blame. Then where the source of blame lies is not open to debate and people know they have to work.

The bottom line for me is who made the decision to sell Scott Dann? If it was Money then fine let's blame him, but how many ambitious managers think, "Wow I've got a winning / successful team here, let's break it up in the last hour of the transfer window!"

If it wasn't money then who was it?


But the sale of Scott Dann on its own shouldn't have derailed the season as spectacularly as it did.

And it's not as if Dann just left for no compensation. We had all of this stuff surrounding the Fryatt and Bennett sales too, with many people saying that Merson couldn't be to blame as he wouldn't have sold his top scorer when we were likely to need him to score the goals to keep us safe. Of course, it later transpired that it was PM who wanted them to leave so that he could use the money received to get in a number of loanees and (in theory) strengthen the team across the board.

Just saying that it's implausible that DD was the driving force behind the transfer isn't even close to convincing me that he wasn't fully behind the decision at the time. (Equally, I have no reason to suspect that he advocated the sale.)

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 1:22 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:I'm sure he did take (a rather envious) look in Southend's direction. No doubt they were able to make such signings because they the ability to do so within their playing budget. As a result they played better football, and won more games, and finished the season consistently getting around 2000 more people through the gate than during the winter months.

I would bet all the money in the world that Clarke + Barnard + Mulgrew cost (much) less than N'Dour + Holmes + Moore + Brown.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 1:37 pm

PH, why not duck out of the speculation and messageboard hyperbole and listen to what the players themselves are saying?

Mooney's interview has been as good as dismissed due to sour grapes. hmmm, what about the Dobson interview? Now Anthony Gerrard's comments both at the presentation night and in the press???

There is a growing tide of first hand accounts as to how our team, our season, and if we're not too careful our club is coming apart at the seams.

It seems to be emerging that The "three scousers" were the rock upon which our last two seasons were built, defensively, and in terms of dressing room and team spirit, we didn't get Fox on a longer term contract when according to Mooney, we could have done.

Dann was allowed to rip up his contract and walk without even a fight, and now Gerrard looks like he wants to follow suit ASAP.

If the club owner had shown some faith and ambition in what was a very good team up until January how different things could have been.

I felt robbed when we sold Fryatt, because I wanted to see more of him in a Walsall shirt but understood at the time that finances dictated the sale. The gut feeling when we sold Dann was almost indescribeable, I just couldn't believe it, because up until that moment I honsetly thought he would be a player I would see lead us into the Championship either this season or next.

I realised at that moment in time, that I had been sold down the river, there was no "3 year plan", no tangible ambition to build a team around our best young crop since the 80's- it was first come first served to anyone who wanted to cherry pick our youngsters. The sale of Scott Dann, for me, and it would appear also for our manager, many of the players, and many fans, was a defining moment in the recent history of our club.

I honestly believe it is the beginning of the end for JB, because his usual strategies simply arn't going to work this time. He needs some rapid, positive, decisive action - and I just don't think as a human being he has that in his locker, he's had it far too easy too long to reinvent himself.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 1:48 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:I'm sure he did take (a rather envious) look in Southend's direction. No doubt they were able to make such signings because they the ability to do so within their playing budget. As a result they played better football, and won more games, and finished the season consistently getting around 2000 more people through the gate than during the winter months.

I would bet all the money in the world that Clarke + Barnard + Mulgrew cost (much) less than N'Dour + Holmes + Moore + Brown.


Would you really? Based on what exactly??

Also you conveniently miss out James Walker, Robson Kanu, and Tony Grant who have also been on loan at Southend in the latter part of the season from Championship or Premiership clubs.

I havn't a clue what the financial situation is regarding those players, but I do know that most of them would have walked into our team in recent months, and that the transfer dealings of Southend (as one example) have shown ambition to get into the top 6 of our league. Holmes (who was already with us pre January sales) and maybe Betsy apart, ours didn't.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 1:54 pm

I wouldn't dispute that morale is at a very low point now. I'd expect some recriminations from within the club after such a disappointing end to the season. And I'd expect such a tight bunch as our players were before Christmas to feel disappointed that two (three with Ricketts) of the group had left in January. But players leave football clubs for sides in higher divisions all the time - and that situation should have been anticipated and then could have been managed in such a way that morale didn't collapse. That it did is, in my view, an issue for the team manager alone (at a stretch for influential senior players also).

In any case, morale amongst the players is something that can be solved by a decent break, fresh team mates in July, a change of manager and a good pre-season. I'm not remotely concerned that what the players that are going to be retained feel now will have an effect on their performances next season.

Finances didn't dictate the sale of Fryatt by the way (hence the money - and more - being spent on the loanees). To claim that they did is to try to rewrite history. In fact, given the level of our loans from JB in the last accounts and the fact that we've had to go outside of the directors for financing in that period, I'd say the financial situation was more critical when Dann was sold.

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Geordiesaddler
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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 2:16 pm

PH, sorry, our best player is about to embark on a holiday with the last two players who were sold from the club!!!! So I hardly think he will return refreshed and with all talk of a transfer erased from his mind.

Secondly, you are completely wrong to say that the morale factor is the responsibity of the team manager if it is not him (and it isn't in our case) that decides who gets a contract and who doesn't.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 2:22 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:PH, sorry, our best player is about to embark on a holiday with the last two players who were sold from the club!!!! So I hardly think he will return refreshed and with all talk of a transfer erased from his mind.

Secondly, you are completely wrong to say that the morale factor is the responsibity of the team manager if it is not him (and it isn't in our case) that decides who gets a contract and who doesn't.


Actually, that's a fair point! :wink:

Which is a further reason why STM should be asked not to darken our door again. His meddling (even with the manager's consent) can undermine a lot of the work that the manager goes to in order to build team spirit.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 3:09 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:I'm sure he did take (a rather envious) look in Southend's direction. No doubt they were able to make such signings because they the ability to do so within their playing budget. As a result they played better football, and won more games, and finished the season consistently getting around 2000 more people through the gate than during the winter months.

I would bet all the money in the world that Clarke + Barnard + Mulgrew cost (much) less than N'Dour + Holmes + Moore + Brown.


Would you really? Based on what exactly??

Also you conveniently miss out James Walker, Robson Kanu, and Tony Grant who have also been on loan at Southend in the latter part of the season from Championship or Premiership clubs.

I havn't a clue what the financial situation is regarding those players, but I do know that most of them would have walked into our team in recent months, and that the transfer dealings of Southend (as one example) have shown ambition to get into the top 6 of our league. Holmes (who was already with us pre January sales) and maybe Betsy apart, ours didn't.


Registered..., I think Sothend paid in the region of 70-80 grand for Bernard for Tottenham. I doubt Clarke was cheap wages wise whilst he was on loan

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 3:39 pm

derbysaddler wrote:Registered..., I think Sothend paid in the region of 70-80 grand for Bernard for Tottenham. I doubt Clarke was cheap wages wise whilst he was on loan

Stand corrected on Barnard, thought he was a freebie. I doubt Clarke was on more than Holmes
Geordiesaddler wrote:Also you conveniently miss out James Walker, Robson Kanu, and Tony Grant who have also been on loan at Southend in the latter part of the season from Championship or Premiership clubs.

I also conveniently missed out Betsy, Mattis and Brittain and the contracts paid up for Sonner and Carneiro! I don't believe the budget was as tight as people like to make out. And if we're relying on quotes to the press, then what Money has said has backed that up. I don't believe the budget was well spent and a bit more thought into what we actually needed would have helped.

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Re: Hatlepool United (H) League 1 Saturday 3/5/08

Tue May 06, 2008 3:47 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
derbysaddler wrote:Registered..., I think Sothend paid in the region of 70-80 grand for Bernard for Tottenham. I doubt Clarke was cheap wages wise whilst he was on loan

Stand corrected on Barnard, thought he was a freebie. I doubt Clarke was on more than Holmes


Barnard's down as a free transfer on Soccerbase (it usually says "Signed" if it's an undisclosed fee, it says "Free" for DB).

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