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Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:25 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
BathSaddler wrote:The fact that we have scored only three goals in the last six games without any input from midfield and upfront tells its own story :cry: .

0-1.


You're wrong bath. It's all about us weakening the defence...apparently.


Canuck on the 'Isn't it Funny?' thread wrote:We've allowed 80 shots in the last 7 games (41 in the last 3 - ouch). Would that have happened had Fox and Dann stayed? Of course the answer is that we'll never know, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that the number would have been significantly less had they stayed. Our defence was our strength. Our only strength, one could say.

Prior to the F&D sale we had 15 clean sheets in the previous 27 games (55.5%)
Since F&D left we've had 3 clean sheets in 11 games (27.2%)


I agree we're poor up front, but times were that we had every chance of a point even if we didn't score. Now, we basically need at least one goal to get anything from the game. It makes a big difference.

EDIT: So a 'rough and ready' calculation is that we would have achieved three more clean sheets with F and D (at around 55% of games) had they stayed. Even if we hadn't scored, that's an extra three points on where we are now. That would put is a better postion.

All statistical mumbo-jumbo, I know - but it is a hypothesis that has some credence, in my view.


Of course it does. But the point remains, missing chances has cost us as much, if not more than the defence which everyone wants to blame because that relates to selling players and they can then blame the club.

The poor form was started when Ricketts stopped playing before Fox and Dann were sold.

Even if you consider the defence needed strengthening, can you explain why DD didn't do that but instead bought in Betsy and Moore who had been outed by fans of all their previous clubs as lasty wasters but without the class and goalscoring or creativity of Ricketts. Unless I'm much mistaken I think the fans of previous clubs were right. As I've said all along we bought in players we didn't need.

One decent centre half but most importantly one decent striker could have been bought in for the money we've spent on the other wasters. That's Money's decision completely.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:46 pm

Agree with all that.

On the 'Bumbper Crowd' thread, I wrote:At the risk of repeating what I wrote elsewhere (which was actually a paraphrase of MMF anyway):

N'Dour + Betsy + Moore + Brown = a very decent striker's salary.

Why is the above a message to JB rather than RM?


See? I even mentioned the source of my inspiration. :wink:

I placed the same sentiment in another post prior to this, and again credited you for the point:

On the 'Anyone still supporting Bonser?' thread, I wrote:Third, I'm sure Bonser did/does want an exciting strike force. What do you expect him to do? Sign players himself? Of course not - that's the manager's job. What you expect him to do is ensure that sufficient financial backing is in place to support the manager in delivering this ambition. What evidence do you have, from anywhere, that funding has been a problem? As MMF wrote, Betsy + Moore + N'Dour + Brown = a very decent striker. If the manager chooses to spend money on duffers and crocks, what can the owner do, other than sack him? Money has never claimed that he's been denied funds, Merson always said Bonser was 'golden' when it came to backing him (as we know to our cost!). Lee and Bonser fell out partially over funding but also over business organisation and personality clashes (doesn't bear thinking about with Bonser and Lee, I know). Who knows whether Bonser would have dealt with the Lee situation differently if it had been purely about team strengthening that January?


It is totally validto say that money has been spent on quantity rather than quality. Can I explain it? I wish I could.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:13 pm

King Crimson wrote:Agree with all that.

On the 'Bumbper Crowd' thread, I wrote:At the risk of repeating what I wrote elsewhere (which was actually a paraphrase of MMF anyway):

N'Dour + Betsy + Moore + Brown = a very decent striker's salary.

Why is the above a message to JB rather than RM?


See? I even mentioned the source of my inspiration. :wink:

I placed the same sentiment in another post prior to this, and again credited you for the point:

On the 'Anyone still supporting Bonser?' thread, I wrote:Third, I'm sure Bonser did/does want an exciting strike force. What do you expect him to do? Sign players himself? Of course not - that's the manager's job. What you expect him to do is ensure that sufficient financial backing is in place to support the manager in delivering this ambition. What evidence do you have, from anywhere, that funding has been a problem? As MMF wrote, Betsy + Moore + N'Dour + Brown = a very decent striker. If the manager chooses to spend money on duffers and crocks, what can the owner do, other than sack him? Money has never claimed that he's been denied funds, Merson always said Bonser was 'golden' when it came to backing him (as we know to our cost!). Lee and Bonser fell out partially over funding but also over business organisation and personality clashes (doesn't bear thinking about with Bonser and Lee, I know). Who knows whether Bonser would have dealt with the Lee situation differently if it had been purely about team strengthening that January?


It is totally validto say that money has been spent on quantity rather than quality. Can I explain it? I wish I could.


Sorry KC, as you know I haven't had much time to read many threads recently.

It's all back on if we win tomorrow. :shock:

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:18 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:Sorry KC, as you know I haven't had much time to read many threads recently.

It's all back on if we win tomorrow. :shock:


No problem. Just start your own. :wink:

Strangely, a win tomorrow and it could be 'back on'.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:55 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:Sorry KC, as you know I haven't had much time to read many threads recently.

It's all back on if we win tomorrow. :shock:


No problem. Just start your own. :wink:


I'm working on it. I've got 48 hours to do it apparently. :roll: :mrgreen:

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:17 am

King Crimson wrote:
latviancheese wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
latviancheese wrote:Hate Tranmere.

ill go for the 1-1 draw too.

Moore to score. :lol:


April Fools jokes should be played before noon, latvian. :wink:


Okay okay. Back to seriousness.


Betsy hat trick, all being brave headers


You've more chance of Ince scoring! :D


Walsall 0-1 Tranmere (Ince o.g.)

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:02 pm

Team for today:

01 Ince
02 Weston
05 Gerrard
06 Roper
26 Taundry
22 Sonko
04 N'Dour
08 Dobson
16 Holmes
10 Mooney
28 Betsy

Substitutes
12 Demontagnac, 17 Nicholls, 18 Bradley, 19 Deeney, 20 Smith

No Boertien - out injured or caught the flu the others had?? Are we playing 442 or 451? If 442 then N'Dour and Dobson in the middle appears a bit slow and lacking in creativity. Guess we'll see what happens. Lots of kids on the bench, even Ishy is there!! Be great to see him come on and make a difference today.

0-0 or 1-1 for me still though.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:34 pm

Well we were losing after 3 minutes. so, glad i havent gone.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:46 pm

Mooney misses pen, what a suprise.


Theyre down to ten men.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:55 pm

latviancheese wrote:Mooney misses pen, what a suprise.


Theyre down to ten men.


Don't worry, N'Dour has made up for it!!

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:15 pm

Jolly Johnny wrote:
latviancheese wrote:Mooney misses pen, what a suprise.


Theyre down to ten men.


Don't worry, N'Dour has made up for it!!


Very close to half time, too. 7 Seconds away, probably :wink:

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:24 pm

IISHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYY

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:24 pm

ISHY ISHY ISHY!

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:00 pm

ft 2-1 !!

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:24 pm

Just got in, something very strange happened today, the club united and became as one.

Over the moon, Kevin Betsy - Stand up and take a bow - awesome.

All the Mooney haters can apologise to him.

Roper didn't get turned and did very well!

N'Dour proved he is a footballer.

But Deeney Didn't score so still some room for improvement.

Talking of improvement, we will need to if we want to win the last 5. We were good today, but we were not great.

Up the Saddlers!

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:29 pm

Glad to hear Mooney is back to what he was at the start of the season.

A bit of luck, and our season may just not be over.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:29 pm

Splendid result, that just about equates to an opportunity knocking. Let's hope this time we are brave enough to try and take it. We have handed Leeds our hard earned play-off spot on a plate in the last 2 months.

We probably need 5 wins out of 5, certainly 4, and the only way we will achieve that is by being positive from the first minute of every game. If we sit back and wait for something to happen then it probably wont.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:37 pm

Wednesbury Saddler METFAN wrote:Just got in, something very strange happened today, the club united and became as one.

Over the moon, Kevin Betsy - Stand up and take a bow - awesome.

All the Mooney haters can apologise to him.

Roper didn't get turned and did very well!

N'Dour proved he is a footballer.

But Deeney Didn't score so still some room for improvement.

Talking of improvement, we will need to if we want to win the last 5. We were good today, but we were not great.

Up the Saddlers!


Great to hear so many positives from a Walsall match for the first time in a while.

How about Ishy? He came on and scored which was great, but was he effective for the duration he was on the pitch? Did he prove to be the impact player we hoped he could be?

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:40 pm

Jolly Johnny wrote:
Wednesbury Saddler METFAN wrote:Just got in, something very strange happened today, the club united and became as one.

Over the moon, Kevin Betsy - Stand up and take a bow - awesome.

All the Mooney haters can apologise to him.

Roper didn't get turned and did very well!

N'Dour proved he is a footballer.

But Deeney Didn't score so still some room for improvement.

Talking of improvement, we will need to if we want to win the last 5. We were good today, but we were not great.

Up the Saddlers!


Great to hear so many positives from a Walsall match for the first time in a while.

How about Ishy? He came on and scored which was great, but was he effective for the duration he was on the pitch? Did he prove to be the impact player we hoped he could be?


Ah so , so with Ishmel, his goal was a touch of clas showever he didn't really do a lot except give needless free kicks away, but he scored the goal, so hopefully his confidence will improve.

Oh yeah and MIchael Dobson was superb again today, held his position well AND made forward runs! Superb performance, my motm along with Betsy.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:42 pm

Jolly Johnny wrote:Lots of kids on the bench, even Ishy is there!! Be great to see him come on and make a difference today.


I really can't see that happening

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:48 pm

I thought we did well and deserved the win today. We bossed the first half without creating too much, second half we did well but did sit back a little too much when they started going for it. I thought Betsy had his best game so far (that I have seen) and Dobson did well. I agreed with the sponsors that chose N'dour for MOTM, he didn't do much spectacular, but held the ball well and didn't give it away, making the midfield that much more solid. Roper and Gerranrd did well, I was disappointed with Taundry (esp for their goal!), but he was poor most of the game IMHO.

A HUGE well done the the small group at the front of the Asbo who kept the atmosphere going. It was great today!

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:54 pm

Whitti Steve wrote:A HUGE well done the the small group at the front of the Asbo who kept the atmosphere going. It was great today!


Was DD happy then?!! Did he wave or come on and applaud the fans at the end?!! :wink:

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:56 pm

An unexpected win, and it gives us a half-chance of getting back into the Play off picture. However, Southend, Forest and Leeds are all running into form at the right time and I personally think we have lost our chance. Four points at this stage is a lot to make up, even though we have three out of the last four matches at home.

I still stand by my feelings from last week. I will not be visiting the Banks's again this season, but I'm chuffed to bits that the players have found some fighting spirit in the midst of all the 'punching above our weight'/'miracle' nonsense over the last few of weeks. If we had been more positive on and off the pitch a bit earlier then who knows what we might have achieved. Still, you never know.
Last edited by BathSaddler on Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:00 pm

Really pleased with today's game. The football wasn't brilliant but it was better than it has been. The atmosphere was as good as it's been all season (bar Leeds), and for the first time in ages I enjoyed it.

Special praise for the midfield. N'Dour and Dobson seemed to click in the middle. I said after the Crewe game that N'Dour looked like he might have a bit of quality, and Dobson really looked up for it. If N'Dour can keep improving he might be worth keeping next season.

Betsy also showed some quality today. Is he finally gaining his match fitness? Had we written him off too soon? He also managed to really annoy the Tranmere fans (more on them later) Mooney started to give a cack again too, could have scored in the first half and drew a good save from their keeper for the penalty.

Roper and Gerrard looked as solid together as I've seen them since Dann left (apart from one instance in the first half where they both went for the same ball). Taundry recovered well from being beaten to the ball for the first goal. Weston was his usual reliable self and Clayton could do nothing about the goal.

Holmes and Sonko didn't set the world alight but did their bit. Ishy came on and scored the winner but didn't do a lot else, although I wont complain if he scores the winning goal in every other game and does nothing else. Deeney was Deeney, hard working but never looked like scoring, and Bradley helped steady the ship at the end.

And finally the fans: First Tranmere; what a bunch of idiots they are! One Tranmere fan ran on the pitch, their keeper tried to get rid of him, Mooney tried to head it over him and he managed to get back to turn it round for a corner. The ref, bizzarely, gave a drop ball.

Our fans were great, singing non stop through out the game, something which seemed to be much appreciated by DD. Will be interested to know what he said to WM about it.

Renewed my confidence, but still worry it might be a case of to little too late. But at least we've put ourselves back in the race.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:02 pm

Jolly Johnny wrote:
Whitti Steve wrote:A HUGE well done the the small group at the front of the Asbo who kept the atmosphere going. It was great today!


Was DD happy then?!! Did he wave or come on and applaud the fans at the end?!! :wink:


Yes, came right over the the F2G to applaud the fans :mrgreen: He even waved during the first half too :mrgreen:

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:13 pm

priestley_saddler wrote:The ref, bizzarely, gave a drop ball.

Our fans were great, singing non stop through out the game, something which seemed to be much appreciated by DD. Will be interested to know what he said to WM about it.


1) The referee's decision was correct, in law. When an "outside agent" enters the field of play then play stops and is restarted by a dropped ball.

2) When asked about his criticism of the Saddlers' fans, DD said on BBC Radio Dingle "I'm an emotional guy. Sometimes I say things and then regret them later - but that's the way I am. May be I should have bitten my lip and said nothing.".

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:05 pm

Considering how poorly we started, the fact that we really dug in and clamied the three points was as pleasing an aspect of a performance as I've seen for weeks.

Let's make no mistake, the manner in which we conceded the goal was an absolute shambles. They were allowed to get a cross in despite us having at least 2 players in close 'blocking' proximity, and Taundry just seemed to watch the ball being diverted into the net by his man. It couldn't really get much worse.

In fairness, the defence looked alright without being anything more, and the front two showed signs of linking up well in the first half. I thought N'Dours vision and ability on the ball gave us something we'd been lacking for a couple of months. He definitely has a streak of quality about him, almost like a more dynamic Vinny Samways. He got caught out a couple of times when taking too long on the ball, but that can be improved upon with more match fitness and a better understanding of his team-mates. Dobson complimented him really well by having another one of those games where many won't have noticed him at all, but those who did will have seen the number of key tackles and interceptions he made throughout the game. Even in the dying minutes, his balls into the channels rather than through the middle made a difference.

I felt we got a bit lucky today in that they were down to 10 men before half time, we scored a heavily deflected equaliser, and Zola missed a golden chance to level the scores close to the end. That said, you make your own luck, and it was arguably Betsy's movement up front which forced their defender into a position where he got himself sent off. To be honest, Betsy looked a real threat at times, particularly in the first half when he seemed to be right on the same wavelength as Mooney. That's where he should play from now on.
If I'm honest, I wasn't too impressed with Mooney until after his penalty miss. He was showing signs of the player he was before Xmas, but seemed to have a habit of getting in the way and over-complicating things. When he really got stuck into the game trying to make amends for the penalty miss, he was impressive.

The substitutions all worked to be fair to Money. Deeney held the ball up really well, Ishmel got the winner, and Bradley bascially just had to win his headers and play percentage football, which he did.
My man of the match was probably N'Dour because he brought a welcome change to the previous formula of our midfield. He's a rare breed within our squad in that he'll put his foot on the ball and look for a quality ball, rather than rushing things like so many others tend to. It's worth mentioning Gerrard and Roper for their combined solidarity at the back, and Dobson as I said earlier.
I'm still not convinced we have the ability, depth or goals in the squad to make the playoffs come the end of the season, but at least we've put ourselves back in the race, which is all the manager and this group of players can do now.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:46 pm

It has been a few matches since I have seen the Saddlers as I have been on child-care duties and for the first 10 or so minutes of the match it seemed as if everything I had been hearing was going to be true today. We looked all at 6s and 7s, lack-luster and outclassed.

But then a number of incidents seemed to pump up the Saddlers and from then on we were full of spirit and fire. Their fan on the pitch (and the rediculous drop-ball rather than corner), their fans' booing of our players - this got us (the crowd) going and the players going to.

There are quite clearly weaknesses in our side both in class and in depth of squad - but with performances like we saw today then we should see the end of the season out with a number of wins (and maybe that 6th spot, although another 5 or 6 teams have their eye on it too).

I thought N'dour was class today - his passing at times was beautiful.

Back four were solid (after some awful marking for their goal) - in fact I think Gerrard and Roper are developing a workable rapour.

When Ishi came on we saw he best of him (a lovely goal) and the worst of him (lashing out at a player after being tackled)

Not sure we really needed to use the two other subs when we were 2-1 up and looking good for a third, but I am not going to question DD today.

Ince today showed me why he will never be better than Jimmy - his ball distribution was very very poor.

DDs comments on WM after the match - something along the lines of "I know that I have said things in the past when I hould have bitten my tongue - but that is just not me" are enough of an apology for me.

So Well Done DD, Well Done the small but vocal crowd ... and mostly Well Done to the players.

As I watched the match today I suddenly realised that each of our players will be as disappointed as we are that we have had a drop in form - and todays performance showed them rallying against their disapointment.

Come On You Saddlers

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:05 pm

Its interesting to read from those that were there how well the likes of Mooney and Betsy played today, and how well the crowd responded to their effort, and also DD's comments (apology). Maybe the realisation is belatedly hitting home that a Walsall crowd will respond to players clearly giving their all, and also if said players had given their all in the previous 2 months instead of barely going through the motions, we would now be nailed on for a play-off spot and in contention for automatic promotion.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:13 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:Its interesting to read from those that were there how well the likes of Mooney and Betsy played today, and how well the crowd responded to their effort, and also DD's comments (apology). Maybe the realisation is belatedly hitting home that a Walsall crowd will respond to players clearly giving their all, and also if said players had given their all in the previous 2 months instead of barely going through the motions, we would now be nailed on for a play-off spot and in contention for automatic promotion.



Chicken or egg ?

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