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Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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cyclothymic
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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:24 pm

Ned_Kelly wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:Its interesting to read from those that were there how well the likes of Mooney and Betsy played today, and how well the crowd responded to their effort, and also DD's comments (apology). Maybe the realisation is belatedly hitting home that a Walsall crowd will respond to players clearly giving their all, and also if said players had given their all in the previous 2 months instead of barely going through the motions, we would now be nailed on for a play-off spot and in contention for automatic promotion.



Chicken or egg ?


Although I have said it elseware I will repeat myself - after all - this is UTS :wink:

I am sure that each player in our squad wants to be promoted and that each was disappointed that our squad was not strengthened when it should have been.

Today I think they fought against that disappointment and that gave the fans something to shout about.

As fans we need players to perform if we are to shout - if it was the other way round then they should be paying us.

Play-offs are a slight chance IMHO - but today gave us hope

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:25 pm

despite the best efforts of some to destabalise the club i thought today was mighty fine.

Goal was sloppy, but it was a good ball in to the box and if was a good finish. sometimes you have to hold your hands up.

Despite that we held our own at 11 v 11 and even looked the better team.

When we went up to ten, fair play we took to charge - it can be harder against 10 sometime.

Taundry deserves a run at full back now.

Ndour showed signs of real quality and intelligency as a player.

I was embaressed the way Betsy was flinging himself around at times ... but it was the best we've seen from him yet.

Roper and Gerrard not really tested on the ground, but when strikers run at them there is pandemonium. That stems from Ropers lack of ability. But never mind.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:34 pm

Ned_Kelly wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:Its interesting to read from those that were there how well the likes of Mooney and Betsy played today, and how well the crowd responded to their effort, and also DD's comments (apology). Maybe the realisation is belatedly hitting home that a Walsall crowd will respond to players clearly giving their all, and also if said players had given their all in the previous 2 months instead of barely going through the motions, we would now be nailed on for a play-off spot and in contention for automatic promotion.



Chicken or egg ?


Players are paid to play, end of argument IMO.

THis whole discussion about "atmosphere affecting players performance" is the biggest "crock of" I've ever known.

Take the Leeds game, Fans were superb, big stage, TV coverage - where were the players??

Every single player that pulls on a Walsall shirt should be giving 100%, they are after all being paid four figure/week wages to do so, its an absolute minimum standard.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:37 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:
Ned_Kelly wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:Its interesting to read from those that were there how well the likes of Mooney and Betsy played today, and how well the crowd responded to their effort, and also DD's comments (apology). Maybe the realisation is belatedly hitting home that a Walsall crowd will respond to players clearly giving their all, and also if said players had given their all in the previous 2 months instead of barely going through the motions, we would now be nailed on for a play-off spot and in contention for automatic promotion.



Chicken or egg ?


Players are paid to play, end of argument IMO.

THis whole discussion about "atmosphere affecting players performance" is the biggest "crock of" I've ever known.

Take the Leeds game, Fans were superb, big stage, TV coverage - where were the players??

Every single player that pulls on a Walsall shirt should be giving 100%, they are after all being paid four figure/week wages to do so, its an absolute minimum standard.


You sound like my echo :lol: Tha ammount of times i've used that Leeds line on people recently. It was also the opposite for them, fans were pretty silent but they played ok and won 2-0

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:53 pm

Burnside wrote:Goal was sloppy, but it was a good ball in to the box and if was a good finish. sometimes you have to hold your hands up

No you don't. It was Sonko and Weston's job to stop the cross and neither of them did. It was then Taundry's job to stop his man getting a free header in on goal. He failed.
Had their goal been a 35 yard wonder strike where there appeared to be little threat then I'd agree with your argument. I can't agree with you on their goal today though. Shambolic defending throughout, which I'm sure Money will have commented on by now.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:04 pm

Ned_Kelly wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:Its interesting to read from those that were there how well the likes of Mooney and Betsy played today, and how well the crowd responded to their effort, and also DD's comments (apology). Maybe the realisation is belatedly hitting home that a Walsall crowd will respond to players clearly giving their all, and also if said players had given their all in the previous 2 months instead of barely going through the motions, we would now be nailed on for a play-off spot and in contention for automatic promotion.



Chicken or egg ?

Poached or half-baked? :wink:

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:45 pm

Thought it was an ok performance today, nothing better. We at least showed some passion. The BIG BIG difference was the midfield. Two players in N'Dour and Dobson who were prepared to make themselves available for the ball, then pass, move and ask for it back.

Betsy had a superb game up front, really worked the channels. I thought it was a major mistake putting him onto the right wing when Deeney came on, It invited pressure onto us and didn't give us the outlet of his pace. Deeney, with his workrate, would have been far better employed on that right side.

Ince - a bit slow for the goal? It seemed to at the time to me, and I'm not one to usually criticise him

Weston - one of his poorer games I thought, in an otherwise excellent season
Taundry - yes, at fault for the goal but why did we leave him, a shortish player, against their tall player at the far post? After that, I thought he had a good game and it's incredible to see a player who has only just come into the team asking for the ball and being comfortable in possession of it. Needs to learn that sometimes you DO hoof it rather than playing football!
Gerrard - excellent game as usual
Roper - solid enough

Sonko - in and out of the game. Victim of a reckless challenge which the bizarre ref didn't even give a foul for
Holmes - very poor game I thought and, most worringly, didn't look interested at times
Dobson - superb. Does all the "dirty work" for which some fans never give him the praise but also plays some really good passes at times. It's a myth that he can't pass. He has the ability to play a superb 30 yard ball whilst at the same time having the ability to misplace a 5 yard pass! Yes, he's a donkey and too slow to turn....but he gives 100% and is a darn sight better than Wrack has been for most of the season
N'Dour - I was pleasantly surprised. I thought he had an excellent game and showed some real class at times

Mooney - woeful for a fair part of the match. Pretty awful penalty. And then he came alive late on. Great header for the 2nd goal. I think most of the crowd groaned when the cross went in, Mooney made it into something. Still looking like a player who's had it now.
Betsy - as noted above, superb, Caused all sorts of bother for the Tranmere defence, got both crowds going, won the penalty and the sending off and generally worked the channels brilliantly.

Deeney - worked hard as usual, about as effective as a chocolate teapot as usual
Bradely - certainly contributed when he came on
Demontagnac - brought some pace to the game and certainly worried the Tranmere defence. Great shot for the goal. But, as usual, threatened to ruin it with his petulance including swearing at the linesman from less than a yard away, could easily have been another sending off.

Mr Money - plenty of waves at the fans to keep the mob happy. Wrong tactics to switch Betsy to the wing and I was really surprised that he couldn't see that. We also sat too deep considering we were playing 10 men but I don't know whether that was orders or not

Referee - bizarre!! Truly bizarre. Penalty? Probably. Sending off? I guess so if it was a penalty. But then proceeded to have a 'mare. Definite pen for them 2nd half when their centre half was caught late. Not a single yellow card shown despite clattering challenges on Mooney, Ishmel and, worst of all, Taundry. No card for a challenge on Ishmel when the ball was 10 yards away. No yellow card or even a foul for a reckless kick at Sonko. By the same token, no yellow for Taundry 1st half for a nasty kick at their player. And then the "stamping" incident by their player, for which he awarded Tranmere a free kick!!! Bizarre!!

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:39 pm

Football seasons are full of turning points, and perhaps today's red card incident was one of them. I thought we were generally very poor until then, but it seemed to galvanise us and even though we were playing ten men we were battling and committed, and that's all one can ask of the players. Lots of players did well, but nice to see some of the much-maligned ones being the pick of the bunch - Roper, Dobson, Betsy.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:13 am

ShropsSaddler - you saw the game as I saw it. A really good summing up, in my view.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:04 am

First the crowd , superb thats all DD has asked for that what he got today amazing atmosphere i really believe we played a massive part in the victory .
The game , enjoyed it we made a bright enough start but gave away a sloppy goal 10 minutes before our penalty there was a deafening sound of "Saddlers Saddlers Saddlers " to which DD responded to by engourging the players it gave us the lift we needed from then on there's was only going to be one winner .

The midfield looked miles better N'dour nothing spectactular but helped us keep the ball much better then off late nice touches at times impressive,Dobson was excellent very unlucky not to get MOTM , Besty looked a differnt player full of running caused Tranmere problems all afternoon Mooney didn't do a lot to be honest other than set up Ishmel's winner . at the back Roper and Gerrrad very solid , Weston not his best game but stready enough , Taundry got hinself in trouble a couple of times but to be fair to the lad he got himself out trouble through good battling play

I don't know how Ince as been a keeper 15 to 20 years i guess , but you'd think by now he'd know how to kick a ball .

all in all a much needed win and hopefully a big confidence boost to take to Cheltenham.

UP THE SADDLERS

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:03 am

Duke wrote:I don't know how Ince as been a keeper 15 to 20 years i guess , but you'd think by now he'd know how to kick a ball .


Duke, while I'd agree his kicking was poor on a couple of occasions, there are 2 points I'd make in his defence;

i) The ball was bobbling quite badly for two of his "poor" kicks and, as we know from the time "Saint Jimmy" did it against the Wolves, it's easy to make a real mess of it in those circumstances, so perhaps some credit to Ince for at least clearing the ball

ii) I always ALWAYS think this when I see keepers making so called "blunders" kicking - the one SURE way to make sure it doesn't happen is for the outfield players, whose job it is to kick the football, to take responsibility themselves instead of passing to the last man back!

King Crimson - I try to give a realistic assessment and not allow my dislike of certain players who are no longer in the team so can now concentrate on their testimonial events to cloud my view :wink: By the way, I've asked a question in "Off Topic" which I am sure you can answer!

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:07 am

ShropsSaddler wrote:
Referee - bizarre!! Truly bizarre. Penalty? Probably. Sending off? I guess so if it was a penalty. But then proceeded to have a 'mare. Definite pen for them 2nd half when their centre half was caught late. Not a single yellow card shown despite clattering challenges on Mooney, Ishmel and, worst of all, Taundry. No card for a challenge on Ishmel when the ball was 10 yards away. No yellow card or even a foul for a reckless kick at Sonko. By the same token, no yellow for Taundry 1st half for a nasty kick at their player. And then the "stamping" incident by their player, for which he awarded Tranmere a free kick!!! Bizarre!!


Even when Taundry was "clothes-lined" and virtualy unconsious in front of me, the ref didn't even speak to the lad who did it !!!!!

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:15 am

Great result for us. After going 1-0 down with in 3 minutes most people one thought, here we go again. But no, the fans got behind the te4am and sang constantly. The fans were the 12th man. Mooney missed a penalty, and usually people would be like, "it's just not our day" but the fans kept behind the team, and it's true what they say, fans score goals. In my opinion if the fans weren't as vocal then we wouldn't of won. I would just like to give a mention to Al N'Dour, first half, what a performance from him. He faded in the second half as he doesn't look fully fit. If we can get him fully fit, he could look like a good signing.


Onwards and upwards. Up The saddlers

The Play-off push is back on

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:26 am

ShropsSaddler wrote:
Duke wrote:I don't know how Ince as been a keeper 15 to 20 years i guess , but you'd think by now he'd know how to kick a ball .


Duke, while I'd agree his kicking was poor on a couple of occasions, there are 2 points I'd make in his defence;

i) The ball was bobbling quite badly for two of his "poor" kicks and, as we know from the time "Saint Jimmy" did it against the Wolves, it's easy to make a real mess of it in those circumstances, so perhaps some credit to Ince for at least clearing the ball

ii) I always ALWAYS think this when I see keepers making so called "blunders" kicking - the one SURE way to make sure it doesn't happen is for the outfield players, whose job it is to kick the football, to take responsibility themselves instead of passing to the last man back!

King Crimson - I try to give a realistic assessment and not allow my dislike of certain players who are no longer in the team so can now concentrate on their testimonial events to cloud my view :wink: By the way, I've asked a question in "Off Topic" which I am sure you can answer!



i also try to give a realistic account of games i go to , i've never said i dislike any WalsalL player i rate some players more than other players i simply don't rate Wrack as much as other fans , i'm sorry if that offends anyone .
finnaly i have know knowledge of the music of King Crimson and Ince's kicking for a player of his experience is poor .FACT

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:39 am

Duke - I think you've taken my post the wrong way!! I was only replying with some observations regarding Ince. The rest of the post was aimed at KC's comment earlier on that I'd summed the game up well. It's ME who doesn't like Wrack. And yep, it sometimes clouds my judgement :wink:

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:41 am

ShropsSaddler wrote:Duke - I think you've taken my post the wrong way!! I was only replying with some observations regarding Ince. The rest of the post was aimed at KC's comment earlier on that I'd summed the game up well. It's ME who doesn't like Wrack. And yep, it sometimes clouds my judgement :wink:



Wires crossed . my opolgies .

we both argreed on Dobson and N'dour :wink:

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:34 pm

Inces kicking isnt poor. Its diabolical.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:18 pm

WFC_Rob wrote:Considering how poorly we started, the fact that we really dug in and clamied the three points was as pleasing an aspect of a performance as I've seen for weeks.

Let's make no mistake, the manner in which we conceded the goal was an absolute shambles. They were allowed to get a cross in despite us having at least 2 players in close 'blocking' proximity, and Taundry just seemed to watch the ball being diverted into the net by his man. It couldn't really get much worse.

In fairness, the defence looked alright without being anything more, and the front two showed signs of linking up well in the first half. I thought N'Dours vision and ability on the ball gave us something we'd been lacking for a couple of months. He definitely has a streak of quality about him, almost like a more dynamic Vinny Samways. He got caught out a couple of times when taking too long on the ball, but that can be improved upon with more match fitness and a better understanding of his team-mates. Dobson complimented him really well by having another one of those games where many won't have noticed him at all, but those who did will have seen the number of key tackles and interceptions he made throughout the game. Even in the dying minutes, his balls into the channels rather than through the middle made a difference.

I felt we got a bit lucky today in that they were down to 10 men before half time, we scored a heavily deflected equaliser, and Zola missed a golden chance to level the scores close to the end. That said, you make your own luck, and it was arguably Betsy's movement up front which forced their defender into a position where he got himself sent off. To be honest, Betsy looked a real threat at times, particularly in the first half when he seemed to be right on the same wavelength as Mooney. That's where he should play from now on.
If I'm honest, I wasn't too impressed with Mooney until after his penalty miss. He was showing signs of the player he was before Xmas, but seemed to have a habit of getting in the way and over-complicating things. When he really got stuck into the game trying to make amends for the penalty miss, he was impressive.

The substitutions all worked to be fair to Money. Deeney held the ball up really well, Ishmel got the winner, and Bradley bascially just had to win his headers and play percentage football, which he did.
My man of the match was probably N'Dour because he brought a welcome change to the previous formula of our midfield. He's a rare breed within our squad in that he'll put his foot on the ball and look for a quality ball, rather than rushing things like so many others tend to. It's worth mentioning Gerrard and Roper for their combined solidarity at the back, and Dobson as I said earlier.
I'm still not convinced we have the ability, depth or goals in the squad to make the playoffs come the end of the season, but at least we've put ourselves back in the race, which is all the manager and this group of players can do now.

This post is spot-on! I agree with everything in it. Certainly N'Dour could be a real find. His vision and creativity were superb, although I think that his defensive qualities are somewhat fragile.

[post modded - quote corrected]

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:55 pm

Top result yesterday. Well done team and management. Keep this up, don't give up on what could be achieved this season, please.

Fair play to N'dour geeting off the mark too.

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Re: Tranmere Rovers (H) League 1 Saturday 5/4/08

Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:15 pm

Stalky wrote:Certainly N'Dour could be a real find. His vision and creativity were superb, although I think that his defensive qualities are somewhat fragile.

Which is why you pair him with someone with a more defensive mindset, like Dobson. It's no coincidence that Dobson's best performances come when he has sole responsibility for the defensive duties in midfield and nothing more.
You can tell by the way N'Dour passes the ball that he has quality. The key to getting the best out of him will be to ensure he gets up to speed with the English game as soon as possible. If he continues to impress in midfield though, we'll all be asking the question of why he wasn't in the side sooner.

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