Doncaster Rovers (H) League 1 New Years Day 1/1/08

[fensaddler]

'Twas clear we missed Mooney and Sweeney particularly badly, since despite his best efforts (and he was very good) Ricketts was often isolated and had no one to pass or nod the ball on to. We failed to retain possession or find our man on too many occasions, and the Donny midfield looked very effective. Wrack I thought had a good game, and Deeney looked decent when he came on. The back four were pretty good, but did get pulled out of shape. We missed some bite and creativity in midfield, and as many have noted, the shape seemed all wrong, and often ineffective. Demon flitted in and out, but did do some good work, Sonko tried, but is really out of sorts and low on confidence. Taundry looks to the manor born - another find. Today underlined the limits of our small squad - we were relying too much on younger players, with too little experience to hand. But given all that, against a Doncaster side who looked very useful, one of the best sides I have seen us play this season, a point was a creditable outcome. Today was perhaps a reminder of just how far we are punching above our weight in sixth place?

[tinned]

First half was fairly even. I just felt we needed to push up on them a bit more. We were sitting too deep and not stretching them. The first 15 minutes of the second half we were absolutely clueless. We were chasing shadows. We then settled down but almost appeared to be defending out the 1 - 0 defeat. Good end to the game in which we could've undeservedly taken all 3 points.

I bow to Bob's superior knowledge but I'm convinced 9 out of 10 other referee's would've awarded the penatly for the foul (for foul read assault) on Ricketts.

Thanks for your concern about my temper Goose :D That bloody useless prat in black really wound me up when he set the wall for the free kick. He paced out 9 paces and then when they stood at about 8 he tried to get them back but just gave up when they ignored him.

[Whitti Steve]

For those who missed DD on WM... Sweeney had sickness and squits (can't spell diorehea) :mrgreen:

[OldPenkSaddler]

If you feel you are such experts at that dead easy job of refereeing, then enrol on the next referees' course, at Rushall Olympic F.C. and see if you can improve the quality of the pool of referees in this country, or even just become a better informed spectator. Cynic that I am, I'm not expecting to be trampled to death, in the rush of volunteers. :twisted:

That's because the members of this message board are not attention-seeking, self opinionated, arrogant, blind, toss-pots.

Oh, hang on............................

I'm sure you'd only give a yellow card for the trampling to death offence, Bob. :mrgreen:

[cancol]

I think that Doncaster will see this result as a point gained and not 2 more dropped, for my part I am happy with a point
against a well organised team.

[Atomic Rooster]

This result at the start of the season we would have lost easy ie oldham and southend we battled and scrapped for a point today doncaster passed the ball better than us today and to be honest the only way we could have scored today was a set piece.I think it proved with the starting line up and 5 in midfield that dickie saw this as a 6 pointer and a game we must not lose and we must be happy with that

[WFC_Rob]

Today's referee was NOT a poor official. He had quite a good game, imho. He got one major decision wrong - Deeney did not deserve a yellow card. As for the alleged "penalty", Ricketts clearly pushed into the Doncaster defender first, "making a back" for him. The referee had an excellent, side-on view of the incident. Yes, the defender did, indeed, end up with his arms round Ricketts's neck and shoulders. He had very little choice, given what Ricketts was doing to him! What would you lot do if a bloke as big as Ricketts barged into you? I suppose you'd all be good Christians (sorry, Eddie) and turn the other cheek! Yeah, right! I would have loved it to have been a penalty but, sadly for us, the referee got it right.

Completely agree. If more referees were like the one we had today, football as a sport would be better for it.
The one thing which began to irritate me today was the groans people were making when the referee tried to play an advantage but ended up having to bring the game back for the offence. It was common sense refereeing from my point of view.
Why he didn't show Ricketts a yellow card at least for the one lunge, God only knows. Not that I'm complaining. :)

[geoffwhiting]

I also usually bow to Pedagogue's "superior" refereeing knowledge, but I'm sorry Bob, not on this one.

As far as I could see, Ricketts was using his muscle - he's a big strong bloke, it's what he's got, and he uses it well, but while he was "getting his hands a bit dirty" he was NOT committing any offence IMHO against their player. On the other hand, their player could neither cope with it nor make the decision to bail out and concede to the challenge. Instead he resorted to the arm lock around the neck, and in the 18 yard box that's a penalty.

If you are telling me he got the decision right because Ricketts was doing something wrong to the Donny defender, then why did the Ref not penalise Ricketts for his challenge? Sorry, but you can't have it both ways mate.

Never for a moment did I consider that MR was committing a foul on their player, and I sit plenty close enough and at a good angle to have had a good view of it. Still a penalty all-ends-up as far as I'm concerned. I still believe, however, that the final outcome was a fair one, with Donny shading the possession, but us having the better chances.

As for the "chance" that someone mentioned Donny had in the final minute, it would have made NO difference whether the ball had ended up in the net or where it actually went, behind the goal. The linesman had his flag up quite clearly for an offence, and that's what the Ref awarded. So it was not a "chance" at all as it happens.

[geoffwhiting]

Today's referee was NOT a poor official. He had quite a good game, imho. He got one major decision wrong - Deeney did not deserve a yellow card. As for the alleged "penalty", Ricketts clearly pushed into the Doncaster defender first, "making a back" for him. The referee had an excellent, side-on view of the incident. Yes, the defender did, indeed, end up with his arms round Ricketts's neck and shoulders. He had very little choice, given what Ricketts was doing to him! What would you lot do if a bloke as big as Ricketts barged into you? I suppose you'd all be good Christians (sorry, Eddie) and turn the other cheek! Yeah, right! I would have loved it to have been a penalty but, sadly for us, the referee got it right.

Completely agree. If more referees were like the one we had today, football as a sport would be better for it.
The one thing which began to irritate me today was the groans people were making when the referee tried to play an advantage but ended up having to bring the game back for the offence. It was common sense refereeing from my point of view.
Why he didn't show Ricketts a yellow card at least for the one lunge, God only knows. Not that I'm complaining. :)

Spot on Rob about those "advantage" decisions. In that respect, the Ref did the right thing several times today, so I don't have a complete downer on him.

[Exile]

Hooray for the point - happy with that given the options Dickie Dosh had available at kick-off. Any major injury to a key player would expose the problems we've got in certain areas, so here's hoping we can put that right in the transfer window.

[yoda]

Very entertaining game, Doncaster are one of the better sides to visit the Bescot this year.

On the day a point was a fair result. Remember thinking the ref wasnt bad at all. Both sides had a go at him, so he must have been quite down the middle!

[Whitti Steve]

Today's referee was NOT a poor official. He had quite a good game, imho. He got one major decision wrong - Deeney did not deserve a yellow card. As for the alleged "penalty", Ricketts clearly pushed into the Doncaster defender first, "making a back" for him. The referee had an excellent, side-on view of the incident. Yes, the defender did, indeed, end up with his arms round Ricketts's neck and shoulders. He had very little choice, given what Ricketts was doing to him! What would you lot do if a bloke as big as Ricketts barged into you? I suppose you'd all be good Christians (sorry, Eddie) and turn the other cheek! Yeah, right! I would have loved it to have been a penalty but, sadly for us, the referee got it right.

Completely agree. If more referees were like the one we had today, football as a sport would be better for it.
The one thing which began to irritate me today was the groans people were making when the referee tried to play an advantage but ended up having to bring the game back for the offence. It was common sense refereeing from my point of view.
Why he didn't show Ricketts a yellow card at least for the one lunge, God only knows. Not that I'm complaining. :)

Spot on Rob about those "advantage" decisions. In that respect, the Ref did the right thing several times today, so I don't have a complete downer on him.

Made the same point whilst at the game... it was a pleasure to see a ref use that "x" seconds rule and if necessary bring it back. doesn;t happen often enough IMHO. Didn;t think ref was too bad today.

[Dave Gittins]

Apologies Geoff, I knew there was something I missed...

..the referee was a fanny.

Absolutely agree. We nearly lost a board member as I thought Tinned was going to jump over the rail to remonstrate with the ref, such was his anger and frustration :D

Worrying thing is that if he had jumped he would probably have taken me with him, I was two rows straight in front of him.

[Dave Gittins]

Very entertaining game, Doncaster are one of the better sides to visit the Bescot this year.

On the day a point was a fair result. Remember thinking the ref wasnt bad at all. Both sides had a go at him, so he must have been quite down the middle!

Thay are the only team to have visited us this year! This season on the other hand is a different matter........

[tinned]

Apologies Geoff, I knew there was something I missed...

..the referee was a fanny.

Absolutely agree. We nearly lost a board member as I thought Tinned was going to jump over the rail to remonstrate with the ref, such was his anger and frustration :D

Worrying thing is that if he had jumped he would probably have taken me with him, I was two rows straight in front of him.

Were you there fust half? I day see you if you were :?

[Dave Gittins]

Absolutely agree. We nearly lost a board member as I thought Tinned was going to jump over the rail to remonstrate with the ref, such was his anger and frustration :D

Worrying thing is that if he had jumped he would probably have taken me with him, I was two rows straight in front of him.

Were you there fust half? I day see you if you were :?

In the same seats the whole match mate.

[Magic Man Fan]

Why did we miss Mooney? I can only assume people who didn't go to Oldham are saying that.

I can understand the comments but if we'd played Deeney from the start today I don't think we'd have missed him.

Good point today against a good side. Pity we didn't get 3 points with the way the results went and the chances we missed in the first half and the obvious (in my eyes) pen we should have had with McCammon fouling Ricketts but the unbeaten run continues and that was important against sides around us.

[WFC_Rob]

Why did we miss Mooney? I can only assume people who didn't go to Oldham are saying that.

I can understand the comments but if we'd played Deeney from the start today I don't think we'd have missed him.

Te second bit of that makes sense. Ricketts likes to drop deep, to get involved, even drifting wide at times. There was one cross in particular in the first half which fizzed across the edge of the six yard box. Had we been playing another striker alongside Ricketts, I'd like to think we'd have scored. At home, I don't think Ricketts is the ideal man to play as a lone striker.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing though. I expected better performances from Ishmel and Sonko, so arguably would have selected the same team as Money did following the Oldham result.

[Plastic Hawk]

I must come back to the subject of the referee. Now, I know that many think that I am just an apologist for the men in black but, as an F.A. Assessor, I can assure you that I have seen (and still see) more rubbish officials than you lot have had hot dinners. I DO know a poor referee when I see one.

Today's referee was NOT a poor official. He had quite a good game, imho. He got one major decision wrong - Deeney did not deserve a yellow card. As for the alleged "penalty", Ricketts clearly pushed into the Doncaster defender first, "making a back" for him. The referee had an excellent, side-on view of the incident. Yes, the defender did, indeed, end up with his arms round Ricketts's neck and shoulders. He had very little choice, given what Ricketts was doing to him! What would you lot do if a bloke as big as Ricketts barged into you? I suppose you'd all be good Christians (sorry, Eddie) and turn the other cheek! Yeah, right! I would have loved it to have been a penalty but, sadly for us, the referee got it right.

I thought that was actually the lesser of our two penalty claims this afternoon. What did you make of the handball incident from Ricketts' free kick? To my mind the defender in the wall jumped with his hand extended well above his head. The ball hit the arm above the level of the guy's head and that stopped it travelling towards the goal. To me, that was a better penalty shout than the pull on Ricketts (which we'd have been pretty upset about being given at the other end).

[Plastic Hawk]

As for the rest of the game (apart from the penalties), I thought we looked like the games may have caught up with us a bit against a very strong Donny side and should probably be grateful for the point.

Sweeney was missed and I hope he was just ill and not on his way elsewhere. Presumably Deeney was left out simply because too many games on the spin at his age might do more harm than good in the long term (and I'd guess that was the reason the excellent - again - Taundry was taken off too), but it cost us as Sonko was awful. Ishmel wasn't much better with the ball on the other side (first half especially) but at least he was willing to track back and do his defensive duties. Sonko, as usual, wasn't and got his now customary bollocking off the defence as early as the 12th minute today - a new record!!

Defence was a bit more sloppy than normal I thought, but that's probably just because they're normally excellent. The goal was a bit simple for my liking - we've not been caught out by a long ball over the top often this season. Midfield was missing in the first half (Bradley had his worst game for a while, but it's asking a lot of the kid to play so many games in such a short time) with the exception of Taundry. Wrack and Ishmel brightened up second half and Deeney turned the game when he came on - with help from Nicholls joining Ricketts up top. Speaking of Ricketts, I thought he was very good today - played a lot higher up than he does when Mooney's on the pitch and showed some excellent link up play.

[Registered Saddler]

As for the "chance" that someone mentioned Donny had in the final minute, it would have made NO difference whether the ball had ended up in the net or where it actually went, behind the goal. The linesman had his flag up quite clearly for an offence, and that's what the Ref awarded. So it was not a "chance" at all as it happens.

Had his flag up for the goal kick I think. The only other indication could have been offside, which it wasn't - because the ref didn't give an indirect free kick. The match reports on the Walsall and Donny sites both report it as a genuine chance.

[Plastic Hawk]

As for the "chance" that someone mentioned Donny had in the final minute, it would have made NO difference whether the ball had ended up in the net or where it actually went, behind the goal. The linesman had his flag up quite clearly for an offence, and that's what the Ref awarded. So it was not a "chance" at all as it happens.

Had his flag up for the goal kick I think. The only other indication could have been offside, which it wasn't - because the ref didn't give an indirect free kick. The match reports on the Walsall and Donny sites both report it as a genuine chance.

I thought he'd given a foul on Ince (which I didn't think it was). However, I might not be the most credible witness as I didn't realize that the ball had missed the target until I read it one here - thought it was a disallowed goal... :oops: :oops:

[Pedagogue]

If you are telling me he got the decision right because Ricketts was doing something wrong to the Donny defender, then why did the Ref not penalise Ricketts for his challenge? Sorry, but you can't have it both ways mate.

Erm, ever heard of applying the advantage clause, Sir Geoff? He awarded a goal-kick to Donny. It is generally accepted that it is marginally better to award a goal-kick, rather than a free-kick to the defence in its own goal-area (You can be offside from a free-kick but not a goal-kick, if the ball is kicked, long, upfield).

[Neil Ravenscroft]

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... -review-2/

[King Crimson]

Another step in the right direction for my favourite walsall player ishy, ...

You are joking, right? If ever there was a game to show why Ishmel is best used as a 20-30 minute sub, this was it.

Agree particularly with Priestley Saddler and WFC Rob's appraisals. I too would have taken a point against a good side.

I do worry how the team will respond when the run inevitably ends. I also worry in the meantime that we could end up content with draws to sustain the run rather than pushing to win every game. That wasn't the case today, but the longer we continue without loss, the more pressure could come to bear. It does happen.

[Duke]

I was a little disappointed when i saw the final result , more so when sides around dropped points , after speaking to my 2 lads who went to the game a draw appeared to be the correct outcome.

the run continues , onward and upwards.

[Magic Man Fan]

Another step in the right direction for my favourite walsall player ishy, ...

You are joking, right? If ever there was a game to show why Ishmel is best used as a 20-30 minute sub, this was it.

I agree.

baz, I can only assume you drunk far too much NYE if you think yesterday was a good performance by Ishy.

[derbysaddler]

Useful point against an accomplished team. But this run we're on now, all credit to the players and the management team for a job well done. The youngsters have really grabbed the opportunity and its really pleasing to see our team sprinkled with products of the youth side instead of just random journeymen. Haven't seen Taundry before, but again he looks like he has a bit of potential to become a regular for us.

As a side note, Wellens for Donny, complete shitbag. Mouthing off all the time at the ref, irratating gimp.

[geoffwhiting]

As for the "chance" that someone mentioned Donny had in the final minute, it would have made NO difference whether the ball had ended up in the net or where it actually went, behind the goal. The linesman had his flag up quite clearly for an offence, and that's what the Ref awarded. So it was not a "chance" at all as it happens.

Had his flag up for the goal kick I think. The only other indication could have been offside, which it wasn't - because the ref didn't give an indirect free kick. The match reports on the Walsall and Donny sites both report it as a genuine chance.

Definitely not. A linesman indicates a goal kick with a horizontal flag pointing towards the goal area, not an upright flag which was what he was showing. From well down towards the home end in the Text Stand I couldn't tell if it was for an offside, for a handball or for a foul on Ince, but it must have been one of these, and it was already raised when the ball was hit wide of the net.

[WarsawPact]

...If you feel you are such experts at that dead easy job of refereeing, then enrol on the next referees' course, at Rushall Olympic F.C. and see if you can improve the quality of the pool of referees in this country, or even just become a better informed spectator. Cynic that I am, I'm not expecting to be trampled to death, in the rush of volunteers. :twisted:

Do you cover how to count up to ten?

Or in the absence of that, how to impose yourself on players so you can get a defensive wall to retreat from 8 yards to 9 yards without 5 minutes of argument?