Doncaster Rovers (H) League 1 New Years Day 1/1/08

[tinned]

...If you feel you are such experts at that dead easy job of refereeing, then enrol on the next referees' course, at Rushall Olympic F.C. and see if you can improve the quality of the pool of referees in this country, or even just become a better informed spectator. Cynic that I am, I'm not expecting to be trampled to death, in the rush of volunteers. :twisted:

Do you cover how to count up to ten?

Or in the absence of that, how to impose yourself on players so you can get a defensive wall to retreat from 8 yards to 9 yards without 5 minutes of argument?

You're right mate. That was just lazy, couldn't-be-***ed, clueless refereeing of the highest order. If they don't go back to the (incorrect as it stands) distance show a yellow card or two, don't just give up you prize pillock!

[geoffwhiting]

...If you feel you are such experts at that dead easy job of refereeing, then enrol on the next referees' course, at Rushall Olympic F.C. and see if you can improve the quality of the pool of referees in this country, or even just become a better informed spectator. Cynic that I am, I'm not expecting to be trampled to death, in the rush of volunteers. :twisted:

Do you cover how to count up to ten?
Or in the absence of that, how to impose yourself on players so you can get a defensive wall to retreat from 8 yards to 9 yards without 5 minutes of argument?

Only up to nine apparently, because that is the number of paces he took, and even then he left the defenders a yard ahead of that, plus the extra that they took as the kick was about to be taken. Quite pathetic really !

[Plastic Hawk]

...If you feel you are such experts at that dead easy job of refereeing, then enrol on the next referees' course, at Rushall Olympic F.C. and see if you can improve the quality of the pool of referees in this country, or even just become a better informed spectator. Cynic that I am, I'm not expecting to be trampled to death, in the rush of volunteers. :twisted:

Do you cover how to count up to ten?
Or in the absence of that, how to impose yourself on players so you can get a defensive wall to retreat from 8 yards to 9 yards without 5 minutes of argument?

Only up to nine apparently, because that is the number of paces he took, and even then he left the defenders a yard ahead of that, plus the extra that they took as the kick was about to be taken. Quite pathetic really !

Maybe his paces are a bit more than a yard - and nine of them equal ten yards?

My issue was that the guy in the wall blocked the free kick with his hand after all that. He's not allowed to do that even if he's twenty yards away!!

[Rushall Saddler]

If you feel you are such experts at that dead easy job of refereeing, then enrol on the next referees' course, at Rushall Olympic F.C. and see if you can improve the quality of the pool of referees in this country, or even just become a better informed spectator. Cynic that I am, I'm not expecting to be trampled to death, in the rush of volunteers. :twisted:

I'm already qualified thanks. :mrgreen:

[Magic Man Fan]

...If you feel you are such experts at that dead easy job of refereeing, then enrol on the next referees' course, at Rushall Olympic F.C. and see if you can improve the quality of the pool of referees in this country, or even just become a better informed spectator. Cynic that I am, I'm not expecting to be trampled to death, in the rush of volunteers. :twisted:

You won't get many takers. The only people interested in refereeing are those who don't know much about the game and aren't interested in playing or watching it. ;)

PS - Do you know a Joe Clarke, young referee star in the making?

[Ned_Kelly]

...If you feel you are such experts at that dead easy job of refereeing, then enrol on the next referees' course, at Rushall Olympic F.C. and see if you can improve the quality of the pool of referees in this country, or even just become a better informed spectator. Cynic that I am, I'm not expecting to be trampled to death, in the rush of volunteers. :twisted:

Do you cover how to count up to ten?
Or in the absence of that, how to impose yourself on players so you can get a defensive wall to retreat from 8 yards to 9 yards without 5 minutes of argument?

Only up to nine apparently, because that is the number of paces he took, and even then he left the defenders a yard ahead of that, plus the extra that they took as the kick was about to be taken. Quite pathetic really !

Quite a good summing up of yesterdays officials. Some of the decisions were ludicrous. The muppet on the oap side gave their player offside in the 2nd half when 3 of our backline were playing him on :roll:

[Ned_Kelly]

Useful point against an accomplished team. But this run we're on now, all credit to the players and the management team for a job well done. The youngsters have really grabbed the opportunity and its really pleasing to see our team sprinkled with products of the youth side instead of just random journeymen. Haven't seen Taundry before, but again he looks like he has a bit of potential to become a regular for us.

As a side note, Wellens for Donny, complete shitbag. Mouthing off all the time at the ref, irratating gimp.

Beauty right at the end when he went crashing into the wall right infront of us. Got up as if he never felt a thing, wandered off and hardly stopped messing with his arm and wrist for the rest of the game. It deffinately did hurt :lol: :lol:

[Pedagogue]

Here we go again! :D Regarding the 9.15 metres (10 yards) that players must retreat, at the taking of a free-kick, I would agree that many players get away with less than that (including Walsall players, I might add!). The referee's remedy is simple - do what the referee did at Highfield Road, several years ago, and caution the ALL the players in the wall - after all, failure to retreat the full 9.15 metres is a mandatory caution offence. The referee will then, of course, be widely slagged off by the players, manager and spectators for being too fussy about trivial matters! :twisted:

As Plastic Hawk quite correctly notes, how do you know whether the referee's 10 strides cover 9.15 metres? One of the basic skills that we now attempt to teach new referees is how to estimate 9.15 metres. We lay out a measuring tape on the ground and get each trainee referee to pace out 9.15 metres, USING THEIR NORMAL STRIDE PATTERN. The resulting number of strides varies from person to person. For example, someone like Geoff Whiting might need eleven normal strides to cover that distance whereas Metfan would need only nine.

Regarding last Tuesday's incident, the referee had already taken two strides before the ASBO-TO-GO Stand started counting! I think that the previous evening's festivities may have numbed their brains, a little. :lol: :lol:

I know that I am never going to convince the budding 'Alan Wiley's on this board but that will not stop me trying! :P :D

MMF - Yes, I do know Joe Clarke (a Florist fan, like his referee father, Mike) - I trained and assessed him! He is a 17 year-old sixth-former at Aldridge and is destined to go right to the top in refereeing providing that he doesn't become big-headed, like some previous promising young referees have.

[Magic Man Fan]

MMF - Yes, I do know Joe Clarke (a Florist fan, like his referee father, Mike) - I trained and assessed him! He is a 17 year-old sixth-former at Aldridge and is destined to go right to the top in refereeing providing that he doesn't become big-headed, like some previous promising young referees have.

Not sure his dad will allow that. Is he one of your protege's?

[Pedagogue]

MMF - Yes, I do know Joe Clarke (a Florist fan, like his referee father, Mike) - I trained and assessed him! He is a 17 year-old sixth-former at Aldridge and is destined to go right to the top in refereeing providing that he doesn't become big-headed, like some previous promising young referees have.

Not sure his dad will allow that. Is he one of your protegé's?

No, his father qualified elsewhere, I believe. I think, and hope, that you are right and will keep young Joe's feet firmly, on the ground, so to speak. Much will depend upon whether Joe goes off to University, next October.

[geoffwhiting]

As Plastic Hawk quite correctly notes, how do you know whether the referee's 10 strides cover 9.15 metres? One of the basic skills that we now attempt to teach new referees is how to estimate 9.15 metres. We lay out a measuring tape on the ground and get each trainee referee to pace out 9.15 metres, USING THEIR NORMAL STRIDE PATTERN. The resulting number of strides varies from person to person. For example, someone like Geoff Whiting might need eleven normal strides to cover that distance whereas Metfan would need only nine.

Regarding last Tuesday's incident, the referee had already taken two strides before the ASBO-TO-GO Stand started counting! I think that the previous evening's festivities may have numbed their brains, a little. :lol: :lol:

I know that I am never going to convince the budding 'Alan Wiley's on this board but that will not stop me trying! :P :D

That may be true Pedagogue, but nevertheless most refs you see WILL count out ten strides. I trust you WILL concede to that, as it happens on nearly every occasion.

This Ref was not one of the taller ones you'll see, nor did he take extended strides, and I would not therefore expect that nine of his strides would cover the ten yards (or 9.15 metres as we have, apparently to stupidly convert into such a meaningless distance).

I can also estimate ten yards mate, and that was nowhere near it. Whatever slant you want to place on it or excuse you want to make for him, he DID NOT move that line back the required distance, and I was in a very good seat to assess that. We have an 18 yard penalty area do we not? That means the free kick distance is a little more than a half of the distance from the goal-line to the edge of the penalty area. When a free kick takes place near or into the penalty area, the box itself is a great guide to that ten yards distance, and the Ref could have used that too as a guide, but he failed dismally to get it right.

In actual fact I believe he was still trying to move the line back and the line was not moving for him, when he suddenly gave up, broke away and ran across towards the centre/edge of the penalty area, before blowing the whistle and Ricketts took the kick.

I thought it had hit the Donny man in the face, but others with a better angle on the kick say it was clearly a hand-ball. If that is true, he missed TWO penalties - great bl**dy performance!

[sj]

Geoff-- I love you-- because that's how I saw it

[tinned]

As Plastic Hawk quite correctly notes, how do you know whether the referee's 10 strides cover 9.15 metres? One of the basic skills that we now attempt to teach new referees is how to estimate 9.15 metres. We lay out a measuring tape on the ground and get each trainee referee to pace out 9.15 metres, USING THEIR NORMAL STRIDE PATTERN. The resulting number of strides varies from person to person. For example, someone like Geoff Whiting might need eleven normal strides to cover that distance whereas Metfan would need only nine.

Regarding last Tuesday's incident, the referee had already taken two strides before the ASBO-TO-GO Stand started counting! I think that the previous evening's festivities may have numbed their brains, a little. :lol: :lol:

I know that I am never going to convince the budding 'Alan Wiley's on this board but that will not stop me trying! :P :D

That may be true Pedagogue, but nevertheless most refs you see WILL count out ten strides. I trust you WILL concede to that, as it happens on nearly every occasion.

This Ref was not one of the taller ones you'll see, nor did he take extended strides, and I would not therefore expect that nine of his strides would cover the ten yards (or 9.15 metres as we have, apparently to stupidly convert into such a meaningless distance).

I can also estimate ten yards mate, and that was nowhere near it. Whatever slant you want to place on it or excuse you want to make for him, he DID NOT move that line back the required distance, and I was in a very good seat to assess that. We have an 18 yard penalty area do we not? That means the free kick distance is a little more than a half of the distance from the goal-line to the edge of the penalty area. When a free kick takes place near or into the penalty area, the box itself is a great guide to that ten yards distance, and the Ref could have used that too as a guide, but he failed dismally to get it right.

In actual fact I believe he was still trying to move the line back and the line was not moving for him, when he suddenly gave up, broke away and ran across towards the centre/edge of the penalty area, before blowing the whistle and Ricketts took the kick.

I thought it had hit the Donny man in the face, but others with a better angle on the kick say it was clearly a hand-ball. If that is true, he missed TWO penalties - great bl**dy performance!

What was that you were saying on New Years Eve about you being more leniant with referees this season? :wink:

[geoffwhiting]

As Plastic Hawk quite correctly notes, how do you know whether the referee's 10 strides cover 9.15 metres? One of the basic skills that we now attempt to teach new referees is how to estimate 9.15 metres. We lay out a measuring tape on the ground and get each trainee referee to pace out 9.15 metres, USING THEIR NORMAL STRIDE PATTERN. The resulting number of strides varies from person to person. For example, someone like Geoff Whiting might need eleven normal strides to cover that distance whereas Metfan would need only nine.

Regarding last Tuesday's incident, the referee had already taken two strides before the ASBO-TO-GO Stand started counting! I think that the previous evening's festivities may have numbed their brains, a little. :lol: :lol:

I know that I am never going to convince the budding 'Alan Wiley's on this board but that will not stop me trying! :P :D

That may be true Pedagogue, but nevertheless most refs you see WILL count out ten strides. I trust you WILL concede to that, as it happens on nearly every occasion.

This Ref was not one of the taller ones you'll see, nor did he take extended strides, and I would not therefore expect that nine of his strides would cover the ten yards (or 9.15 metres as we have, apparently to stupidly convert into such a meaningless distance).

I can also estimate ten yards mate, and that was nowhere near it. Whatever slant you want to place on it or excuse you want to make for him, he DID NOT move that line back the required distance, and I was in a very good seat to assess that. We have an 18 yard penalty area do we not? That means the free kick distance is a little more than a half of the distance from the goal-line to the edge of the penalty area. When a free kick takes place near or into the penalty area, the box itself is a great guide to that ten yards distance, and the Ref could have used that too as a guide, but he failed dismally to get it right.

In actual fact I believe he was still trying to move the line back and the line was not moving for him, when he suddenly gave up, broke away and ran across towards the centre/edge of the penalty area, before blowing the whistle and Ricketts took the kick.

I thought it had hit the Donny man in the face, but others with a better angle on the kick say it was clearly a hand-ball. If that is true, he missed TWO penalties - great bl**dy performance!

What was that you were saying on New Years Eve about you being more leniant with referees this season? :wink:

Well, these things happen, and this guy ballsed up TWO major decisions, no matter what Bob says. To justify that, everyone knows that all referees make mistakes. Bob is/was a referee, so he'll make mistakes too, and I forgive him for that, but on this one he's quite simply WRONG.

I'd say 75% of refs would have (correctly) awarded at least one of those two penalties.

However, the result was fair IMHO taking the game as a whole.

[Exile]

The result was fair IMHO taking the game as a whole.

So, tell me again - why are you moaning? :lol:

[Magic Man Fan]

I thought the referee was good until about the last 20-25 mins. The counting of steps is a red herring because the crowd only ever start counting when he's already made one step.

The decision that got me annoyed was the clear pen with McCammon holding/strangling Ricketts, stopping him from jumping in the box. How any ref could not give that is beyond me, especially as 10 mins later he gives a foul against Ricketts for a similar yet hardly noticeable offence.

Having said that, we've hard far, far worse refs and he's not one that sticks out who you wouldn't want again like one arm/one eye and Grant Hegley etc.

[geoffwhiting]

The result was fair IMHO taking the game as a whole.

So, tell me again - why are you moaning? :lol:

I'm NOT moaning Exile, merely making the point that the ref was wrong, and our own ref Mr Pedagogue is wrong on this occasion too! :D Even the newspaper reporters seem amazed that we got neither of those decisions. :?

However, despite the fact we got what we deserved with the draw, I wouldn't have refused the extra two points that might have come via those penalties.

[tinned]

I was over in Block 1 on Saturday. To those closer to the other side of the pitch, did the ball go out for a throw in in the lead up to their goal? It looked that way from where I was sitting but that could be down to the distance (or the red and white spectacles I was wearing 8) ).

[redsaddler]

I was over in Block 1 on Saturday. To those closer to the other side of the pitch, did the ball go out for a throw in in the lead up to their goal? It looked that way from where I was sitting but that could be down to the distance (or the red and white spectacles I was wearing 8) ).

You're not the only one! Someone sitting in front of me shouted to the linesman that the ball had gone out of play. Looked a tight one IMO.

[Gaz the Train]

I must come back to the subject of the referee. Now, I know that many think that I am just an apologist for the men in black but, as an F.A. Assessor, I can assure you that I have seen (and still see) more rubbish officials than you lot have had hot dinners. I DO know a poor referee when I see one.

Today's referee was NOT a poor official. He had quite a good game, imho. He got one major decision wrong - Deeney did not deserve a yellow card. As for the alleged "penalty", Ricketts clearly pushed into the Doncaster defender first, "making a back" for him. The referee had an excellent, side-on view of the incident. Yes, the defender did, indeed, end up with his arms round Ricketts's neck and shoulders. He had very little choice, given what Ricketts was doing to him! What would you lot do if a bloke as big as Ricketts barged into you? I suppose you'd all be good Christians (sorry, Eddie) and turn the other cheek! Yeah, right! I would have loved it to have been a penalty but, sadly for us, the referee got it right.

I thought that was actually the lesser of our two penalty claims this afternoon. What did you make of the handball incident from Ricketts' free kick? To my mind the defender in the wall jumped with his hand extended well above his head. The ball hit the arm above the level of the guy's head and that stopped it travelling towards the goal. To me, that was a better penalty shout than the pull on Ricketts (which we'd have been pretty upset about being given at the other end).

Good shout actually about that penalty, did anyone else see the ball go out for a throw in the build up to their goal? as the ball was taken round foxy it was hooked back in mid air and seemed very much out from my position in the bottom left of the gilbert alsop

[Gaz the Train]

I was over in Block 1 on Saturday. To those closer to the other side of the pitch, did the ball go out for a throw in in the lead up to their goal? It looked that way from where I was sitting but that could be down to the distance (or the red and white spectacles I was wearing 8) ).

Very much so, i was in block 6 right level with the touchline and it looked very much out and the ball got hooked back in, it was one of those that as soon as that happened you knew they were going to score

[Neil Ravenscroft]

I thought the referee was good until about the last 20-25 mins. The counting of steps is a red herring because the crowd only ever start counting when he's already made one step.

The decision that got me annoyed was the clear pen with McCammon holding/strangling Ricketts, stopping him from jumping in the box. How any ref could not give that is beyond me, especially as 10 mins later he gives a foul against Ricketts for a similar yet hardly noticeable offence.

Having said that, we've hard far, far worse refs and he's not one that sticks out who you wouldn't want again like one arm/one eye and Grant Hegley etc.

That's how I read it as well. I turned round to my mate just before the end and commented that the ref's game seemed to have fallen apart in the last five minutes.