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Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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Geordiesaddler
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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:33 pm

philthesaddler wrote:Nah percie, Kevin Harper didn't go to MK Dons mate, :lol:


Top post Phil, amazing how after such a resounding victory you can confine your match-thread post to 15 syllables completely unrelated to the match itself. But hey, let's not stifle the right to opinion, so like I say top post.

Anyway back on planet Earth, the thing that strikes me about this result and the manner in which it was achieved is that after the near tragedy of weed's last minute equaliser it would have been so easy to fall into the "after the lord's mayor's show" mode that can so often happen - especially against uninspiring opposition. Not this lot, they come out next game and batter the next opposition to the canvass in 45 minutes. Great attribute that, and something that really gets the cogs whirring when pondering how far we can go in the second half of the season.

Make no mistake, we are a very good League 1 team, and this League 1 isn't the greatest, very much of a muchness at the top end.

Two tough away trips now, Oldham looking particularly tough. Nice and interesting though.

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:12 am

Geordiesaddler wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:Nah percie, Kevin Harper didn't go to MK Dons mate, :lol:


Top post Phil, amazing how after such a resounding victory you can confine your match-thread post to 15 syllables completely unrelated to the match itself. But hey, let's not stifle the right to opinion, so like I say top post.


Christmas cheer from Geordie, still smarting because apparently the signings of Carneiro, Hall & Sonner were brilliant, and still thinking that nothing's changed since the start of the season except we just started getting lucky.

Drop it, you're begging to look a bit pathetic with your constant attempts to deride my comments, even though, they were right, and without the likes of me and mr Roe saying "hold on, something aint right here", we'd still be ****ing about in or around the relegation zone.

I didn't post on this game thread because I simply had nothing to add to what others had said. It was an excellent all round performance, tempered only by the fact I thought Millwall were probably the poorest side I've seen this season.

[post modded - language]

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:17 am

philthesaddler wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:Nah percie, Kevin Harper didn't go to MK Dons mate, :lol:


Top post Phil, amazing how after such a resounding victory you can confine your match-thread post to 15 syllables completely unrelated to the match itself. But hey, let's not stifle the right to opinion, so like I say top post.


Christmas cheer from Geordie, still smarting because apparently the signings of Carneiro, Hall & Sonner were brilliant, and still thinking that nothing's changed since the start of the season except we just started getting lucky.

Drop it, you're begging to look a bit pathetic with your constant attempts to deride my comments, even though, they were right, and without the likes of me and mr Roe saying "hold on, something aint right here", we'd still be ****ing about in or around the relegation zone.

I didn't post on this game thread because I simply had nothing to add to what others had said. It was an excellent all round performance, tempered only by the fact I thought Millwall were probably the poorest side I've seen this season.

[post modded - language]


Absolutely no chance. Why should i stop doing something I thoroughly enjoy??

Freedom of speach and opinion and all that, diversity, wouldn't life be boring if we all thought the same.... etc. etc etc.

I find it fascinating that you think posting your views on here has resulted in us going from relegation fodder to play-off contenders. How did you do that?

I suppose as a Walsall fan I should pass on my heart felt gratitude for your contribution to our season. I didn't realise that Dave Roe was one of your board alter ego's, infact having met Dave on numerous occasions I was convinced he was a real person, but hey ho what do I know about anything.

Its a pleasure and an education to be part of your world Phil. As a 40 year old human bing i thought I had a basic grip on reality, but then you come along, tear up the rule book, and away we go on this magical rolercoaster ride.

THanks again, the little paople inside your head are so lucky, one day i hope to be able to count myself amongst their number. Have you ever thought of becoming a religious cult??

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:38 am

Piss is a swear word now?!?!?! :shock:

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:44 am

Ive just lost what I said because I can't embed 3 quotes, but I said something like...

"no one is saying what you're claiming geordie.

however, at the start of the season there was clear disparity between those who could see there was something wrong, and those who were completely unwilling to admit that maybe, just maybe, DD wasn't the master tactician and manager you all thought he was. [Un-]Surprisingly, those are the same people who are completely unwilling to acknowledge the huge, huge difference that has been made by the changes on and off the pitch that the poor start to the season triggered.

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:54 am

My recollection of the start of the season is that the majority of people recognised that there were a few problems, not unreasonable when a club has just gone up a level.

Those people had faith, routed in the previous season's success, that the manager and his staff would get things right. That faith was supported by some excellent football against the likes of Carlisle and Orient (both still top five). A small minority of people wanted the manager removed after 9 games, and as recently as 2 weeks ago one of their number described us as "boresall" and went on to claim to be "ashamed" of the way e had played in beating Forest.

Strangely the same person never has anything to say on any thread following a good perfomance and result, of which this is the latest example, which is why I mention it, because I LOVE rubbing your snivelling, self-important nose in it. :lol:

Sorry, I just can't help myself - but it does pad out the match-thread posts for games we've won, otherwise there would be evidence that people only come on here for a moan. I mean that can't be the case can it??

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:01 am

Ah, 'faith' ... yes thats right, the faith that he had to get rid of his midfield lynch pin, split up his front two, drop his first choice winger, and get an assistant in. Wow, thats amazing faith, with faith in those kind of major changes being made, you should play the lottery.

Excellent football? Are we still talking about this season? Being out played and out thought at home? mistake after mistake at the back, combined with nothing up front. Ah yes, I remember that 'good' football.

At times under Money we have been 'boresall'. Away at Northampton we were yawnsome, at home to Northampton we were yawnsome, but you can forgive that on a cold night, at home to Forest we played well, but if we won every game in that manner, I would be very ashamed, because forest will have gone away from that game thinking "how the hell didnt we win that", and I don't really want that, I'd much rather see us losing 2 points at the death against Leeds whilst deserving the full 3 points.

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:55 am

Oh Phil, Why can't you stip being so fllipping negative?
Ok sometimes we don't play the most scintillating of football but I never thought we would be do as well as we are doing now and if that means its dour football but it gets us the results then so be it.
DD got rid of the bad influences in the club and we appear to be a more focused team with a really good team spirit.
Come on put a smile on your face and just enjoy life in the top six instead of constantly moaning.

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:19 pm

cal's a saddler wrote:Oh Phil, Why can't you stip being so fllipping negative?
Ok sometimes we don't play the most scintillating of football but I never thought we would be do as well as we are doing now and if that means its dour football but it gets us the results then so be it.
DD got rid of the bad influences in the club and we appear to be a more focused team with a really good team spirit.
Come on put a smile on your face and just enjoy life in the top six instead of constantly moaning.


Cal, I'm not, merely replying to Geordies comments, which is the least I can do

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:06 pm

philthesaddler wrote:
cal's a saddler wrote:Oh Phil, Why can't you stip being so fllipping negative?
Ok sometimes we don't play the most scintillating of football but I never thought we would be do as well as we are doing now and if that means its dour football but it gets us the results then so be it.
DD got rid of the bad influences in the club and we appear to be a more focused team with a really good team spirit.
Come on put a smile on your face and just enjoy life in the top six instead of constantly moaning.


Cal, I'm not, merely replying to Geordies comments, which is the least I can do


No, the "least" you could do would be to actually post something positive about Saturday's performance, which, as Geordie has quite rightly pointed out, you haven't. In fact, it seems that your posts have been considerably fewer after the Leeds game and after the Forest game I seem to remember you only came on to complain how lucky we had been. Funny, to misquote Gary Player, it seems the more we play the season, the luckier we get. As Cal says, how about being just a tiny bit positive for a change, or do you live in a world that is constantly black?

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:05 pm

philthesaddler wrote:Ah, 'faith' ... yes thats right, the faith that he had to get rid of his midfield lynch pin, split up his front two, drop his first choice winger, and get an assistant in. Wow, thats amazing faith, with faith in those kind of major changes being made, you should play the lottery.

Excellent football? Are we still talking about this season? Being out played and out thought at home? mistake after mistake at the back, combined with nothing up front. Ah yes, I remember that 'good' football.


Talk about history being re-written.

Midfield lynch pin - your words, nobody else's. Sonner came and Sonner went. The first of those decisions was wrong, the second showed typical DD decisiveness. Quite why anyone's surprised when not everything goes according to plan is a complete mystery to me.
Split up his front two - well, not quite. There was a lot of hot air about the Mooney/Butler partnership but clearly behind the scenes we were desperate to get in another striker. One of our top targets became available and then we acted, our hands were tied up to that point. Butler has gone now, hopefully for good, it's just a pity that couldn't happen in the summer. By the way, are you still campaigning for us to sign Spencer Weir-Daley?
Drop his first choice winger - rubbish. Sonko was first choice and came in as soon as he was fit. But then when Sonko lost form, he was dropped in favour of Deeney. Excellent management all round.

Excellent football as referred to by Geordie was against Orient and Carlisle. I remember it well - both times those of us who saw the bigger picture were told that those were the sort of teams we should be beating week in and week out because they'd be nowhere near promotion. Well, look who's right. I'll give you a clue - it's not the negative whingeing moaners.

We were rubbish against Oldham and Swansea but after those games faith in the management and patience were required. I don't know why some people were so quick to call for DD to go, are they prepared to admit they were a little hasty in their embarrassingly short-sighted over-reaction?

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:54 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:Ah, 'faith' ... yes thats right, the faith that he had to get rid of his midfield lynch pin, split up his front two, drop his first choice winger, and get an assistant in. Wow, thats amazing faith, with faith in those kind of major changes being made, you should play the lottery.

Excellent football? Are we still talking about this season? Being out played and out thought at home? mistake after mistake at the back, combined with nothing up front. Ah yes, I remember that 'good' football.


Talk about history being re-written.

Midfield lynch pin - your words, nobody else's. Sonner came and Sonner went. The first of those decisions was wrong, the second showed typical DD decisiveness. Quite why anyone's surprised when not everything goes according to plan is a complete mystery to me.
Split up his front two - well, not quite. There was a lot of hot air about the Mooney/Butler partnership but clearly behind the scenes we were desperate to get in another striker. One of our top targets became available and then we acted, our hands were tied up to that point. Butler has gone now, hopefully for good, it's just a pity that couldn't happen in the summer. By the way, are you still campaigning for us to sign Spencer Weir-Daley?
Drop his first choice winger - rubbish. Sonko was first choice and came in as soon as he was fit. But then when Sonko lost form, he was dropped in favour of Deeney. Excellent management all round.

Excellent football as referred to by Geordie was against Orient and Carlisle. I remember it well - both times those of us who saw the bigger picture were told that those were the sort of teams we should be beating week in and week out because they'd be nowhere near promotion. Well, look who's right. I'll give you a clue - it's not the negative whingeing moaners.

We were rubbish against Oldham and Swansea but after those games faith in the management and patience were required. I don't know why some people were so quick to call for DD to go, are they prepared to admit they were a little hasty in their embarrassingly short-sighted over-reaction?


Probably so they can come on the board and say I told you so I was right you were all wrong.

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:41 pm

Exactly so.

The thing that amazes me about Phil is that in his ham-fisted attempts to be proved right all of the time, he makes a complete prat of himself, which I don't mind because its so scrabulously funny. Who can forget the "he's gone all negative" thread from Torquay away last season, started just moments before we roared into a 2 goal lead, Millwall away being described as a "blip" yes a blip that now reads 2 defeats in 18 games. the "we'll get found out against the better teams" mantra, just weeks before we took 4 and very nearly 6 points off Forest and Leeds. The micky-taking of injury-prone, Grandad Mooney before he'd kicked a ball in a Walsall shirt. The list is almost endless.

Which is where I find the irony, you see Phil can't allow DD to make a mistake, yet Phil himself makes the same mistake time afer time after time. Strange that?? I think its called HYPOCRISY, one of the least endearing human failings.

As for faith, maybe one day Phil, whether it be in a professional or personal circumstance you will find yourself in need of some from others, I hope you get it, and then go on to develop a sense of judgement and humility which will enable you to realise and admit when you are wrong. Until that day your attempts at serious analysis will continue to be a source of much amusement to yours truely.

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:09 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:Exactly so.

The thing that amazes me about Phil is that in his ham-fisted attempts to be proved right all of the time, he makes a complete prat of himself, which I don't mind because its so scrabulously funny. Who can forget the "he's gone all negative" thread from Torquay away last season, started just moments before we roared into a 2 goal lead, Millwall away being described as a "blip" yes a blip that now reads 2 defeats in 18 games. the "we'll get found out against the better teams" mantra, just weeks before we took 4 and very nearly 6 points off Forest and Leeds. The micky-taking of injury-prone, Grandad Mooney before he'd kicked a ball in a Walsall shirt. The list is almost endless.


I don't usually agree with Phil, but in my opinion Millwall away was a blip. We all saw how poor they were on Saturday, so a win against them early in the season doesn't demonstrate that we'd turned a corner. That result was followed by the Oldham debacle the next week, resulting in us going bottom of the league, and in turn by the exits of Sonner and Butler and the arrivals of Mattis and Mullen before the Hartlepool game. In my opinion that was the turning point and the Millwall result was down to them being even worse than we were at the time.

I agree with the rest of the things on your list though. :wink:

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:07 am

Plastic Hawk wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:Exactly so.

The thing that amazes me about Phil is that in his ham-fisted attempts to be proved right all of the time, he makes a complete prat of himself, which I don't mind because its so scrabulously funny. Who can forget the "he's gone all negative" thread from Torquay away last season, started just moments before we roared into a 2 goal lead, Millwall away being described as a "blip" yes a blip that now reads 2 defeats in 18 games. the "we'll get found out against the better teams" mantra, just weeks before we took 4 and very nearly 6 points off Forest and Leeds. The micky-taking of injury-prone, Grandad Mooney before he'd kicked a ball in a Walsall shirt. The list is almost endless.


I don't usually agree with Phil, but in my opinion Millwall away was a blip. We all saw how poor they were on Saturday, so a win against them early in the season doesn't demonstrate that we'd turned a corner. That result was followed by the Oldham debacle the next week, resulting in us going bottom of the league, and in turn by the exits of Sonner and Butler and the arrivals of Mattis and Mullen before the Hartlepool game. In my opinion that was the turning point and the Millwall result was down to them being even worse than we were at the time.

I agree with the rest of the things on your list though. :wink:


Best attempt at board suicide ever PH, agreeing with me.

Even when I do say 'positive' things, like I did about the Leeds and Millwall games, I still get labelled negative, but hey, thats why they call it 'being tarnished'.

I still maintain we were bloody awful at the start of this season, and yes, we have improved beyond my wildest dreams, but for the likes of Geordie and co to say "nothing was wrong" is just as ridiculous as my calling for DD's head was. Simple as. There was plenty wrong, whether it was a matter of budget, or simply DD being too faithful in the likes of Hall, Sonner and unkowns such as Carneiro is a matter of conjecture. One thing is for sure, that the start to our season was awful, no amount of geordie using the phrase "excellent football" to describe our early games will change that.

The turning point came with the pivotal week of Sonner and Butler leaving/being dropped, Hall being dropped & Mullen being brought in, yet many still say nothing happened that week. :roll:

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:51 am

First of all merry Christmas Phil.

I'll be brief.

1) Well done for finaly admitting that it was ridiculous for you to call for DD's head - albeit 3 months later.
2) Nobody said there was "nothing wrong", everyone accepted that there were some problems at the start of the season.
3) Loyalty to the players you mention?? Sonner was gone before September was out, Caneiro played because of injuries, was dropped and then got rid of, Hall is still here and doing a reasonable job.
4) Excellent football - undoubtedly yes. We were as good in the second half against Carlisle and against Orient (generally) as we have been at any time since save for maybe the second halves against Doncaster and Leeds.
5) The turning point at this football club arrived when DD walked through the door, since then we have lost 12 league games in a year and a half. he has done a superb job with the contraints he has had to work with, often against a backdrop of the chuntering "experts" such as yourself, who have frankly been collectively embarrassed by your calls for his removal from our football club in the midst of said success (and there have been a few on here and at games, remember "resign man" v southend?). But like I say well done for finally admitting how wrong you were. Maybe next time we lose a couple of games it would be nice if you could put it into context.

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Re: Millwall (H) League 1 Saturday 22/12/07.

Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:31 pm

philthesaddler wrote:Ah, 'faith' ... yes thats right, the faith that he had to get rid of his midfield lynch pin, split up his front two, drop his first choice winger, and get an assistant in. Wow, thats amazing faith, with faith in those kind of major changes being made, you should play the lottery.

Excellent football? Are we still talking about this season? Being out played and out thought at home? mistake after mistake at the back, combined with nothing up front. Ah yes, I remember that 'good' football.

At times under Money we have been 'boresall'. Away at Northampton we were yawnsome, at home to Northampton we were yawnsome, but you can forgive that on a cold night, at home to Forest we played well, but if we won every game in that manner, I would be very ashamed, because forest will have gone away from that game thinking "how the hell didnt we win that", and I don't really want that, I'd much rather see us losing 2 points at the death against Leeds whilst deserving the full 3 points.


Christ you'd argue black was white Phil, if you could get away with it.

OK, we played badly against Northampton, so badly we're in the next round, after a replay that the Cobblers dominated and failed to score against the best defence in League 1. We've now played 21 league games plus 3 in the FA Cup and a few in other cups, and we've had a handful of poor performances - so name me the team that doesn't have a bad game here and there, can you?

We beat Forest fair and square, even their manager admitted his team got it wrong second half and failed to respond to our pressure - we would have won 2-0 actually, but for a refereeing howler. Then Leeds deserved to be beaten, but got a very lucky last minute break. Why do you decry these results and say you'd rather see us losing 2 points at the death whilst deserving the full three points? Do you actually have any idea in that head of yours of the difference in the budgets of us, Forest and Leeds? We have no right to be competing, let alone beating them/deserving to beat them, yet we have and we are performing at that level. But that does not mean we have to adopt suicidal tactics just to entertain certain super-critical elements in the crowd. Few of us would have thanked DD for beatings against Forest and Leeds, but our super-tactician got it sorted, supplied the motivation, and we took 4 unexpected points that could yet help us into the play-offs.

Shame on you DD, adopting tactics just to gain points, it's just so unfair. Anyone would think this is a professional game that we're involved in! :?

Unbel-oody-lievable!

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