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Leeds United (H) League 1 Saturday 15/12/07.

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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Fray Bentos is God!
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:18 am

Registered Saddler wrote:
tinned wrote:So we were right to say DD ballsed up the team strengthening pre-season?


IIRC, in the summer we brought in Paul Hall, Danny Sonner, Rhys Weston, Tommy Mooney, Carlos Carneiro, Junior, Eddy Sonko and Paul Boertien.

Weston, Mooney and Boertien are all good signings (so those who criticised them were wrong). Sonko and Hall are ok-ish, not my dream right wing combination but they are doing the job. Carneiro wasn't up to it but anyone who judged him on a handful of stats pulled off the internet is an idiot. Junior seems to be a waste of a contract - but was only on a short-term deal so no real harm done. Sonner was a big mistake as everyone agrees. I'm glad we managed to get shot of him so quickly.

In an ideal world, we would have shipped out Butler during the summer and brought in Michael Ricketts. That wasn't to be, however once we did get that deal done then Carneiro was on his way too.

So of the seven summer signings, three were good, two were ok and three were pretty poor - all those three will soon be off the books. If you define that as 'ballsed up' then so be it, but I think it's very harsh. I know that some people seem stunned by the fact that Richard Money can make a mistake, but I take it as read that as he is a human, these things will happen from time to time. More so, as he is a football manager at a third division club. All we can hope is that he makes as few mistakes as possible and puts right anything he does get wrong.

It seems to me that people are itching for him to make a mistake. He will do eventually, so if you criticise him enough then sooner or later you'll be proved right one way or another. And then those same people will call Richard Money over-sensitive for thinking our fans can be hyper-critical.

I guess someone will print another photo of a guy with a fishing rod or indeed a big fish in response to this, just so another UTS clique-joke can get another laughless airing.


Image

There you go :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I actually agree with you, but id do anything to post a picture of fishermen or Gary Neville.

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Geordiesaddler
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:55 pm

[
tinned wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:DD is an excellent football manager, part of his excellence involves the ability to realise when he has made a mistake and go ahead and rectify it.


So we were right to say DD ballsed up the team strengthening pre-season? Admit to that and I may just concede that you were right in allowing him more time to put right the problems :wink:

I think this is where the argument diverts into cross-purposes. I'm happy to admit DD has made mistakes, how ever I don't feel the need to condemn him for them (as some very clearly do), nor do I feel the need to condemn players before they have even kicked a ball, and then when they turn out to be duff signings revisit the situation with a barrage of "I told you sos". My reasoning for this is simple, I have seen many apparently questionable signings - on the grounds of age, record at other clubs, attitude, fitness etc. turn out to be excellent signings for Walsall FC.

Likewise looking at managers, no manager of Walsall FC will get every decision right. f they were that good they would be managing eleswhere, while it is also an inherant part of the job at Walsall that the manager has to take gambles and juggle resources. That is not, and never will form a backdrop for sure-fire success in the transfer market. I therefore find it ludicrous that supporters were so quick to condemn this season, especially when we are talking about a manager who had proven his ability last season and had therefore earned the right to expect a little more patience from the "budding Alex's".

People also have a tendancy to be very selective in their definitions in order to prove themselves right.

So what consitutes "team strengthening" as you put it??

Just the signings that are brought in? Hardley, that is just one aspect.
Re-signing of existing top players is another (Clayton Ince, Scott Dann, Ishmel...etc etc.). Imptovement of existing players is another (Fox, Gerrard etc.). Development of young players (Dann, Ishy, Deeney, McDermott, Bradley etc.) Good use of the loan system when the time is right (Ricketts, Mattis, Sweeney - added to those from last season), and lastly the installation a "strength" of spirit and a collective ethic that makes it better than the sum of its parts.

That to me is a rounded definition of "team-strengthening", and if you can honestly look at all of those aspects and conclude that DD has ever "ballsed things up" during his 18 months at Walsall FC then there's no point in me trying to convince you otherwise.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:38 pm

Rob_Walsall wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
tinned wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:DD is an excellent football manager, part of his excellence involves the ability to realise when he has made a mistake and go ahead and rectify it.


So we were right to say DD ballsed up the team strengthening pre-season? Admit to that and I may just concede that you were right in allowing him more time to put right the problems :wink:

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:And, for the benefit of both Phil and Bernie (neither of whom seem to let what people actually write affect their prejudices whatsoever)


Post of the year, nay, decade. And the last time you let others opinions invade your own "I'm always right" stance was ....... ?


But the difference is I actually read what people write - as well as being always right anyway.


No-one likes a smarty pants, bet you've worked that out already tho ;)

Just how far up your backside is your head?


Oooohhh! Get her. Sense of humour transplant alert.

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RobboH89
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:18 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Rob_Walsall wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
tinned wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:DD is an excellent football manager, part of his excellence involves the ability to realise when he has made a mistake and go ahead and rectify it.


So we were right to say DD ballsed up the team strengthening pre-season? Admit to that and I may just concede that you were right in allowing him more time to put right the problems :wink:

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:And, for the benefit of both Phil and Bernie (neither of whom seem to let what people actually write affect their prejudices whatsoever)


Post of the year, nay, decade. And the last time you let others opinions invade your own "I'm always right" stance was ....... ?


But the difference is I actually read what people write - as well as being always right anyway.


No-one likes a smarty pants, bet you've worked that out already tho ;)

Just how far up your backside is your head?


Oooohhh! Get her. Sense of humour transplant alert.


Same excuse as when Miah "died"?

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KJC
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:50 pm

Rob_Walsall wrote:Same excuse as when Miah "died"?


Oooooh get her!

Like you have never made a mistake in your life.

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coxy_saddler
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:13 pm

Lucky B@stards!

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tinned
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:58 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:
tinned wrote:]
Geordiesaddler wrote:DD is an excellent football manager, part of his excellence involves the ability to realise when he has made a mistake and go ahead and rectify it.


So we were right to say DD ballsed up the team strengthening pre-season? Admit to that and I may just concede that you were right in allowing him more time to put right the problems :wink:

I think this is where the argument diverts into cross-purposes. I'm happy to admit DD has made mistakes, how ever I don't feel the need to condemn him for them (as some very clearly do), nor do I feel the need to condemn players before they have even kicked a ball, and then when they turn out to be duff signings revisit the situation with a barrage of "I told you sos". My reasoning for this is simple, I have seen many apparently questionable signings - on the grounds of age, record at other clubs, attitude, fitness etc. turn out to be excellent signings for Walsall FC.

Likewise looking at managers, no manager of Walsall FC will get every decision right. f they were that good they would be managing eleswhere, while it is also an inherant part of the job at Walsall that the manager has to take gambles and juggle resources. That is not, and never will form a backdrop for sure-fire success in the transfer market. I therefore find it ludicrous that supporters were so quick to condemn this season, especially when we are talking about a manager who had proven his ability last season and had therefore earned the right to expect a little more patience from the "budding Alex's".

People also have a tendancy to be very selective in their definitions in order to prove themselves right.

So what consitutes "team strengthening" as you put it??

Just the signings that are brought in? Hardley, that is just one aspect.
Re-signing of existing top players is another (Clayton Ince, Scott Dann, Ishmel...etc etc.). Imptovement of existing players is another (Fox, Gerrard etc.). Development of young players (Dann, Ishy, Deeney, McDermott, Bradley etc.) Good use of the loan system when the time is right (Ricketts, Mattis, Sweeney - added to those from last season), and lastly the installation a "strength" of spirit and a collective ethic that makes it better than the sum of its parts.

That to me is a rounded definition of "team-strengthening", and if you can honestly look at all of those aspects and conclude that DD has ever "ballsed things up" during his 18 months at Walsall FC then there's no point in me trying to convince you otherwise.


Is that a yes then? :?
















:wink:

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tinned
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:58 pm

KJC wrote:
Rob_Walsall wrote:Same excuse as when Miah "died"?


Oooooh get her!

Like you have never made a mistake in your life.


He more than likely has, yes. Probably had the humility and politeness to apologise for it as well.

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Jolly Johnny
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Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:09 am

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Rob_Walsall wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
tinned wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:DD is an excellent football manager, part of his excellence involves the ability to realise when he has made a mistake and go ahead and rectify it.


So we were right to say DD ballsed up the team strengthening pre-season? Admit to that and I may just concede that you were right in allowing him more time to put right the problems :wink:

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:And, for the benefit of both Phil and Bernie (neither of whom seem to let what people actually write affect their prejudices whatsoever)


Post of the year, nay, decade. And the last time you let others opinions invade your own "I'm always right" stance was ....... ?


But the difference is I actually read what people write - as well as being always right anyway.


No-one likes a smarty pants, bet you've worked that out already tho ;)

Just how far up your backside is your head?


Oooohhh! Get her. Sense of humour transplant alert.


If only you'd remembered to use a wink Neil, it would have made it oh so clear! :wink: :roll:

:wink:

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Geordiesaddler
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Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:22 am

tinned wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:
tinned wrote:]
Geordiesaddler wrote:DD is an excellent football manager, part of his excellence involves the ability to realise when he has made a mistake and go ahead and rectify it.


So we were right to say DD ballsed up the team strengthening pre-season? Admit to that and I may just concede that you were right in allowing him more time to put right the problems :wink:

I think this is where the argument diverts into cross-purposes. I'm happy to admit DD has made mistakes, how ever I don't feel the need to condemn him for them (as some very clearly do), nor do I feel the need to condemn players before they have even kicked a ball, and then when they turn out to be duff signings revisit the situation with a barrage of "I told you sos". My reasoning for this is simple, I have seen many apparently questionable signings - on the grounds of age, record at other clubs, attitude, fitness etc. turn out to be excellent signings for Walsall FC.

Likewise looking at managers, no manager of Walsall FC will get every decision right. f they were that good they would be managing eleswhere, while it is also an inherant part of the job at Walsall that the manager has to take gambles and juggle resources. That is not, and never will form a backdrop for sure-fire success in the transfer market. I therefore find it ludicrous that supporters were so quick to condemn this season, especially when we are talking about a manager who had proven his ability last season and had therefore earned the right to expect a little more patience from the "budding Alex's".

People also have a tendancy to be very selective in their definitions in order to prove themselves right.

So what consitutes "team strengthening" as you put it??

Just the signings that are brought in? Hardley, that is just one aspect.
Re-signing of existing top players is another (Clayton Ince, Scott Dann, Ishmel...etc etc.). Imptovement of existing players is another (Fox, Gerrard etc.). Development of young players (Dann, Ishy, Deeney, McDermott, Bradley etc.) Good use of the loan system when the time is right (Ricketts, Mattis, Sweeney - added to those from last season), and lastly the installation a "strength" of spirit and a collective ethic that makes it better than the sum of its parts.

That to me is a rounded definition of "team-strengthening", and if you can honestly look at all of those aspects and conclude that DD has ever "ballsed things up" during his 18 months at Walsall FC then there's no point in me trying to convince you otherwise.


Is that a yes then? :?
















:wink:


No.















Its a stop moaning and get behind the lads.

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beckford09
 
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Re:

Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:03 pm

coxy_saddler wrote:Lucky B@stards!


8)

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Exile
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Re: Leeds United (H) League 1 Saturday 15/12/07.

Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:16 am

Just an aside, Leeds are so unimportant in Walsall that this match thread doesn't even break into the UTS top ten for posts this season!

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Ned_Kelly
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Re: Leeds United (H) League 1 Saturday 15/12/07.

Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:32 am

Exile wrote:Just an aside, Leeds are so unimportant in Walsall that this match thread doesn't even break into the UTS top ten for posts this season!



We ay bothered about the cup !

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Bitter Tree Hugger
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Re: Leeds United (H) League 1 Saturday 15/12/07.

Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:11 am

Good luck today chaps, you'll need it because you just know that dirty Leeds will be given a penalty in the 102nd minute

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SaigonSaddler
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Re: Leeds United (H) League 1 Saturday 15/12/07.

Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:19 pm

Cheers BTH,

well done on beating cobblers last night.

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