Nothampton Town (H) F A CUP 2nd Round Replay Tuesday 11/12/7

[Exile]

Oh, and one more thing - why am I negative when all I'm asking for is attacking football where the side who shows the most endeavour and will to win, actually goes on to win.

You accusing our team of not having any willpower and not trying? :roll:

[Plastic Hawk]

Oh, and one more thing - why am I negative when all I'm asking for is attacking football where the side who shows the most endeavour and will to win, actually goes on to win.

But that's just not football is it? You don't win because you try your best and always look enthusiastic. You win because you achieve more than the other side. Just like in the rest of life - it's about going out there and getting stuff done, not talking a good game, looking sharp but ultimately coming up short.

And to me, that's exactly how a meritocracy should work. (I'm going to get political in a minute, so maybe I should stop...)

[Registered Saddler]

Oh sorry, my mistake, I forgot the point of discussion is to all blindly spout the same rhetoric and agree accordingly. Please forgive for having an opinion that doesnt follow these lines:

Richard Money is akin to Jose Mourihno
We were brilliant last night
Well done lads you outplayed them
Even though we struggled we won, which is a sign of a good side [most over used and utterly bull sh!t cliché of all time]

For the record, I think we can make the playoffs this season, purely because of our defensive consistency - but I'm seriously getting very pead off with our negative style of play.

Oh, and one more thing - why am I negative when all I'm asking for is attacking football where the side who shows the most endeavour and will to win, actually goes on to win.

You really struggle to understand this don't you? For the thousandth time on this thread:
NO ONE IS SAYING THAT WE PLAYED WELL.

We picked up wins when the other side may have had more chances v Northampton and Forest, we didn't when we had more chances v Crewe. That's football. What counts is the points return over long periods, not hyper-analysing individual games. You can't fluke success, we didn't last season and we aren't this year. If that relies on a strong defence rather than an Arsenal-like attack then so be it. A win's a win.

What the majority of fans consider negative is comments akin to "I'm getting very pead (sic) off with our negative style of play". If, after 1 defeat in 14, a place in round three of the cup and 8th in the table, your over-riding emotion is "pead off" then I would suggest it is you who needs their head looking at.

[philthesaddler]

Invite a certain amount of pressure?

:lol:

We barely saw the white round thing they call a football in the first half PH. They passed it and kept it, and they created chances. We didn't pass it, we lumped it, we didn't keep it, and we didn't create chances, except for a long range Ricketts effort.

The 2nd half was a minor improvement, with one chance created from which we scored.

Those 2 sentances above could easily describe the forest match.

The reason I'm so critical of this away team attitude that we show, in the face of mass criticism from other people, is because we've only won due to luck - Forest could and should have had 3 in the first half against us, northampton should have had 2 in the first last night, and one at the death. It's all very well playing with this 'away team' attitude, but sooner or later it aint going to work - sooner or later a team is going to score one and then our lack of attacking intent will stand out like a sore thumb.

The only reason our lack of attacking intent isnt showing up at the moment is because we aint conceding that many - now if that kind of negative "we'll concede less goals than you" excites, pleases or entertains you, then fair enough, but it certainly didn't excite, please or entertain me, nor did it everyone I spoke to last night.

[aaaae]

Quite right Hawk, Port Fail had two penalties against Chasetown, so should have won the game, but they couldn't put them away and we know who the headline writers are talking about today. It's all about scoring more than your opposition and we are doing that.

Anyway a clean sheet is a thing of beauty in my eyes, and our back five are fantastic. Why can't we laud their performances week in week out. Let's all eulogise about our defence.

By the way Phil, one of the oldest (and most telling) epithets in the book - "You make your own luck in football"

[Geordiesaddler]

Well if Phil is really ashamed of the way we played against Forest last week then all I can do is feel ashamed by association. Not by my association with Walsall FC who are making me feel rather proud and happy at the moment, but ashamed to be classed as a fellow supporter.

If he is serious in this post, and to be honest I am beginning to suspect that he is actually just some kind of wind-up merchant, then aside from the obviously deflammatory that is the most shameful thing I've ever seen posted on this message board.

Phil struggles in his infantile manner to convince everyone he is actually the voice of a true Saddler, striving with his seemingly now singular crusade to lift our somewhat mediocre football club above its station with a constant tirade of bleating critisism. It is cringeworthy to behold, even on a messageboard.

Then again I suppose its just a fact of life that attention-seeking, egotistical bores have always been amongst the short-change that comes with price you pay for free speach.

[Whitti Steve]

Phil.... no one is saying that you shouldn't have an opinion... just pointing out that yours is wrong :lol:

My glass (more than) half full. Yours will always be half empty or smashed on the floor. :wink:

[Plastic Hawk]

Invite a certain amount of pressure?

:lol:

We barely saw the white round thing they call a football in the first half PH. They passed it and kept it, and they created chances. We didn't pass it, we lumped it, we didn't keep it, and we didn't create chances, except for a long range Ricketts effort.

The 2nd half was a minor improvement, with one chance created from which we scored.

Those 2 sentances above could easily describe the forest match.

The reason I'm so critical of this away team attitude that we show, in the face of mass criticism from other people, is because we've only won due to luck - Forest could and should have had 3 in the first half against us, northampton should have had 2 in the first last night, and one at the death. It's all very well playing with this 'away team' attitude, but sooner or later it aint going to work - sooner or later a team is going to score one and then our lack of attacking intent will stand out like a sore thumb.

The only reason our lack of attacking intent isnt showing up at the moment is because we aint conceding that many - now if that kind of negative "we'll concede less goals than you" excites, pleases or entertains you, then fair enough, but it certainly didn't excite, please or entertain me, nor did it everyone I spoke to last night.

Did they really create that many chances in the first half? Hubertz had the header cleared off the line, but that was from a set-piece, not because we sat off them and let them play. I don't remember Ince having a proper save to make at all and I thought that we contained them pretty well on the whole and that it looked a nailed on 0-0 from fairly early. The game opened up a bit in the second half and maybe they had a couple more clear chances then, but not that many - around me we were talking about penalty takers from about 20 minutes into the second half so sure were we that extra time was almost inevitable.

Once again you say "we've only won due to luck". Again, I'll say that you get what you deserve in football. If you can't take your chances then that's your own fault - and maybe Forest "could" have been three up by half time, but there's no way I'll agree that they "should" have been. As I say, keepers and defenders are as integral a part of a football side as the more attacking players - and ours are the best in this division as a unit. If you win because your back four have a blinder or the keeper pulls out five or six great saves then that's not "lucky", it's one part of the team (the defence) helping out another (the attack) by making their job easier (only have to put together one decent move all night to win the game).

As for your last paragraph, this is football we're talking about. If you don't like it then don't go - but it's always been the same, the team that concedes least goals wins the game, so don't complain that it's not what you signed up for when you bought the ticket. I'm not saying that last night was the best night I've ever spent at Bescot (far from it), but if I walk out of the ground with the team having won then I'll always be happier than I was before the game.

[Puddletown Tom]

Oh, and one more thing - why am I negative when all I'm asking for is attacking football where the side who shows the most endeavour and will to win, actually goes on to win.

Football is about defending too. I lost count of the number of times I went to watch us under Merson when we played nice football for the first 20 mins, then conceeded due to poor defending and then completely folded. Give me DD's way of doing things any day. 8th and 3rd round says it all. As has been said before, this is exactly the way Sir Ray went about things. And he has become venerated by virtually all Saddlers fans, quite rightly so. So let's celebrate DD and what he is achieving rather than pointlessly criticising.

[Randy Camel]

The worrying this is Geordie I don't think Phil is a wind-up merchant because anyone who sits by him in the ground will no he's just as critical on a match day!
Can you imagine being a fly on the wall in a broken lift with him, Barbie Girl, Kev the dancer and Dicky Dosh in!
Now thats reality TV!

[Buckos Boys]

Phil - I've just read all of the posts on here and would ask 2 questions.

Firstly, you state that we have been winning games because we have been lucky. Lee Trevino once said "The harder you work, the luckier you get". Please comment.

Secondly, was it your opinion that we didn't deserve to win the game on Saturday because we were unable to break down Crewe. If yes, isn't that the same as Northampton last night and Forest last week? If no, please explain.

[LancsSaddler]

...some bull

I'm not saying the long run is down to luck, thats purely ridiculous. We've obviously found some consistency from somewhere, mainly down to the defence.

However, stop being so blindly supportive of what was two very poor performances. In neither game we didn't do enough to win, yet we won. AT HOME!

We played like the away side, it was a shocking lack of attacking intent.

[post moderated - language does not help make a point]

i agree that last night was a bad performance, i dont think anyone will disagree!

i also agree that against forest in the 1st half we were outclassed and could/should have been 3-1 down at half time.

however we won both games!

how you can say that we had no attacking intent last night beggars belief. fair enough in the first half we didnt do much. (3rd agme against them, cold night, not much pace in the team, 4th game in 2 weeks, big game on saturday) BUT then all of our substitutions were attacking. We finished the game with 2 strikers, 2 out and out wingers and an attacking midfielder in bradley.

i must say i normally agree with more of what you say than some of the other board members, but think you may be going a bit far this time.

[sid swifty]

I think phil needs to accept that DD plays that way and wont change.....if you think back to when his name was first mentioned as our new manager...we had some of his ex-clubs supporters on here saying how negative he is...and thats how he has proved....so either accept it phil or do the same as me and my sons and also 3 or 4 other people i personally know....dont waste your hard earned money on them mate...why do you think there were only 3,000 there? (thats a retoricle question by the way).

[booster cogburn]

I think phil needs to accept that DD plays that way and wont change.....if you think back to when his name was first mentioned as our new manager...we had some of his ex-clubs supporters on here saying how negative he is...and thats how he has proved....so either accept it phil or do the same as me and my sons and also 3 or 4 other people i personally know....dont waste your hard earned money on them mate...why do you think there were only 3,000 there? (thats a retoricle question by the way).

That's a bit harsh Sid. We knock it about quite nicely when possible and keep it tight where necessary. It's not always easy on the eye by any means but that's a small price to pay for the general upturn in playing fortunes since the arrival of DD.

[Geordiesaddler]

I think that's a fair point Sid.

However just to point out two facts.

DD's managerial record at Walsall is:

P 76 W 35 D 24 L 17.

Throw in a promotion, a championship, a few club records, now a cup run, etc. etc. and add teh mitigating circumstance that his reign imediately followed on from the Conference bound shambles that was the Merson era
and you would have to be a pretty harsh Saddler to describe that as anything other than outstanding.
That's not to say of course that everyone will find watching third and fourth division football entertaining - clearly the vast majority of people don't.

His managerial record at Scunthorpe by comparison was

P 70 W 23 D 24 L 23.

So hardly a follow on is it?

Also whilst the crowd last night was poor and crowds generally have been disappointing, our average league gate this season is 5,600. I would expect that to touch 6,000 by the time we've played the next 3 home games which is excellent by our standards historically at this level.

Also, should we get past Millwall and get an attractive draw in round 4 the usual suspects will be out of the woodwork demanding tickets. Personally I hope the few that have already witnessed Walsall in the FA Cup this season will get the opportunity to front up the queue ahead of the band-wagon jumpers.

[Plastic Hawk]

I think phil needs to accept that DD plays that way and wont change.....if you think back to when his name was first mentioned as our new manager...we had some of his ex-clubs supporters on here saying how negative he is...and thats how he has proved....so either accept it phil or do the same as me and my sons and also 3 or 4 other people i personally know....dont waste your hard earned money on them mate...why do you think there were only 3,000 there? (thats a retoricle question by the way).

So if Phil's criticizing on Saturday night then can we tell him to shut it as there will have been 11,000+ there?

However, I do agree with what you say to Phil - if he doesn't enjoy it then he should stop going. Nobody's forcing him. Personally, I'm enjoying this season almost as much as the last one - and certainly much, much more than the two we had playing "positive", "attacking" football under Merson.

I also don't think we play especially negative football. Yes, we have a tight defence, but we hardly have a "dogs of war" style midfield in front of them and we generally play with two wingers and two strikers these days (as we did for much of last season).

[King Crimson]

I think phil needs to accept that DD plays that way and wont change.....if you think back to when his name was first mentioned as our new manager...we had some of his ex-clubs supporters on here saying how negative he is...and thats how he has proved....so either accept it phil or do the same as me and my sons and also 3 or 4 other people i personally know....dont waste your hard earned money on them mate...why do you think there were only 3,000 there? (thats a retoricle question by the way).

That's a bit harsh Sid. We knock it about quite nicely when possible and keep it tight where necessary. It's not always easy on the eye by any means but that's a small price to pay for the general upturn in playing fortunes since the arrival of DD.

I agree Booster. We are critical of the Leeds/Forest bunch for feeling that they have a God-given right to expect results week-in, week-out and by the same token we have no right whatsoever to expect attractive, free-flowing football with the budget we have, the fact that we are a newly-promoted team with a number of developing young players in it (which pretty much everyone welcomes).

I remember Megson being lambasted by a bunch of Baggies fans for boring football in The Championship a few years back. Guess where fourteen 1-0 wins took them? Automatic promotion - while their more aesthetically-pleasing footballing neighbours in the orange tops missed out. Give me 'winning ugly' over 'losing pretty' any day.

[sid swifty]

I think phil needs to accept that DD plays that way and wont change.....if you think back to when his name was first mentioned as our new manager...we had some of his ex-clubs supporters on here saying how negative he is...and thats how he has proved....so either accept it phil or do the same as me and my sons and also 3 or 4 other people i personally know....dont waste your hard earned money on them mate...why do you think there were only 3,000 there? (thats a retoricle question by the way).

That's a bit harsh Sid. We knock it about quite nicely when possible and keep it tight where necessary. It's not always easy on the eye by any means but that's a small price to pay for the general upturn in playing fortunes since the arrival of DD.

I agree mate...if all you want is to be fairly high up the league and your not particularily bothered how we do it then thats fine...but ive seen so many really bad performances over the last 3 seasons (which means Merson as well obviously)....and even last season when we won the league (a time for celibration you would think)...the football was terrible....I had to stop going halfway through the season....it was depressing me....but I look forward to the day when I can start going again...either when DD gets a more positive attitude or when he leaves/gets the sack.

[sid swifty]

I think phil needs to accept that DD plays that way and wont change.....if you think back to when his name was first mentioned as our new manager...we had some of his ex-clubs supporters on here saying how negative he is...and thats how he has proved....so either accept it phil or do the same as me and my sons and also 3 or 4 other people i personally know....dont waste your hard earned money on them mate...why do you think there were only 3,000 there? (thats a retoricle question by the way).

That's a bit harsh Sid. We knock it about quite nicely when possible and keep it tight where necessary. It's not always easy on the eye by any means but that's a small price to pay for the general upturn in playing fortunes since the arrival of DD.

I agree Booster. We are critical of the Leeds/Forest bunch for feeling that they have a God-given right to expect results week-in, week-out and by the same token we have no right whatsoever to expect attractive, free-flowing football with the budget we have, the fact that we are a newly-promoted team with a number of developing young players in it (which pretty much everyone welcomes).

I remember Megson being lambasted by a bunch of Baggies fans for boring football in The Championship a few years back. Guess where fourteen 1-0 wins took them? Automatic promotion - while their more aesthetically-pleasing footballing neighbours in the orange tops missed out. Give me 'winning ugly' over 'losing pretty' any day.

" fourteen 1-0 wins took them? Automatic promotion ...and straight back down again.... :wink:

[Flemish Saddler]

I think phil needs to accept that DD plays that way and wont change.....if you think back to when his name was first mentioned as our new manager...we had some of his ex-clubs supporters on here saying how negative he is...and thats how he has proved....so either accept it phil or do the same as me and my sons and also 3 or 4 other people i personally know....dont waste your hard earned money on them mate...why do you think there were only 3,000 there? (thats a retoricle question by the way).

:shock: :shock: don't understand what people expect of a manager. Champions last season. This season from bottom to 8th position in about 2,5 months. Don't say you ca achieve that only by playing "negative" football. I saw one of their worst games (vs Oldham) I've ever seen but also a very promising game (vs Leyton). After Leyton i thought: this team will stay easily in L1, after Oldham: no way, they're staying in L1. But already the following home game Huddersfield was beaten the s**t out of them. talking about revenge. can't imagine that he Huddersfield-victory also was negative.
Like it or not, Dicky brought us from L2 to L1 and now put us on a safe position to have a safe season. Well done Dicky and keep p the good work. if some locals don't wanna spend their money, we'll certainly do and see you as much as possible!!!

[Registered Saddler]

I agree mate...if all you want is to be fairly high up the league and your not particularily bothered how we do it then thats fine...but ive seen so many really bad performances over the last 3 seasons (which means Merson as well obviously)....and even last season when we won the league (a time for celibration you would think)...the football was terrible....I had to stop going halfway through the season....it was depressing me....but I look forward to the day when I can start going again...either when DD gets a more positive attitude or when he leaves/gets the sack.

I can't say I understand this attitude one bit as DD is there to win, not entertain, but it's your choice so I won't argue with it. But I can't agree that the 'football was terrible' and the performances were 'really bad'. It might not have been to your liking, fair enough, but we were excellent last season, just as we have been recently.

[King Crimson]

" fourteen 1-0 wins took them? Automatic promotion ...and straight back down again.... :wink:

Yeah, that too. :D


But you see my point, oh picker of nits. :wink:

[Duke]

Attendances in the FA Cup have been poor across the country this year, The FA and Eon are working on a deal to make the 3rd round £1 for kids.

[Geordiesaddler]

I think phil needs to accept that DD plays that way and wont change.....if you think back to when his name was first mentioned as our new manager...we had some of his ex-clubs supporters on here saying how negative he is...and thats how he has proved....so either accept it phil or do the same as me and my sons and also 3 or 4 other people i personally know....dont waste your hard earned money on them mate...why do you think there were only 3,000 there? (thats a retoricle question by the way).

That's a bit harsh Sid. We knock it about quite nicely when possible and keep it tight where necessary. It's not always easy on the eye by any means but that's a small price to pay for the general upturn in playing fortunes since the arrival of DD.

Very true, of course Sid is not aware of this.....because he's stopped going to matches. Shame.

Of the four "eras" of success we've had at this level in my lifeltime - 70's cup run, Buckley era, Coakley promotion, and Graydon era, I think the current encumbants compare pretty decently in terms of entertainment.
Not the greatest but certainly not the worst.
Where they are different, and what excites me, is that the number of young players we have and the pace at which they are generally learning offers a "sky's the limit" (in Walsall terms!) vision of where we might be in a few seasons, or even a few months.

[Flemish Saddler]

Attendances in the FA Cup have been poor across the country this year, The FA and Eon are working on a deal to make the 3rd round £1 for kids.

Club Brugge (leader in highest division) played at home last week for the Belgian cup vs a L3 team. L3 team took twice the lead but losing all at the end with 3-2. Have seen some highlights on TV, looked a spectacular game. Attendance:..................... 1500!!!!! :shock: Can you believe that!? You ain't doing that bad in England, you know.

[sid swifty]

I think that's a fair point Sid.

However just to point out two facts.

DD's managerial record at Walsall is:

P 76 W 35 D 24 L 17.

Throw in a promotion, a championship, a few club records, now a cup run, etc. etc. and add teh mitigating circumstance that his reign imediately followed on from the Conference bound shambles that was the Merson era
and you would have to be a pretty harsh Saddler to describe that as anything other than outstanding.
That's not to say of course that everyone will find watching third and fourth division football entertaining - clearly the vast majority of people don't.

His managerial record at Scunthorpe by comparison was

P 70 W 23 D 24 L 23.

So hardly a follow on is it?

Also whilst the crowd last night was poor and crowds generally have been disappointing, our average league gate this season is 5,600. I would expect that to touch 6,000 by the time we've played the next 3 home games which is excellent by our standards historically at this level.

Also, should we get past Millwall and get an attractive draw in round 4 the usual suspects will be out of the woodwork demanding tickets. Personally I hope the few that have already witnessed Walsall in the FA Cup this season will get the opportunity to front up the queue ahead of the band-wagon jumpers.

P 76 W 35 D 24 L 17.
....cant argue with facts Geordie....but as I have already said...a good proportion of fans (maybe 500/700) want to be entertained (and when i say entertained I dont mean man utd style just a bit of attacking football will do)...or they/we wont turn up....ive done 45+yrs of just turning up come rain or shine....now its entertainment or nothing.

[Flemish Saddler]

Also, should we get past Millwall and get an attractive draw in round 4 the usual suspects will be out of the woodwork demanding tickets. Personally I hope the few that have already witnessed Walsall in the FA Cup this season will get the opportunity to front up the queue ahead of the band-wagon jumpers.

i hope you don't find us band-wagon jumpers but we would be pleased to come to an FA Cup game vs a big team. Let's hope region London.

[Geordiesaddler]

Well hypothetically Sid, if we changed our principles and went back to the moronic ethos of the Merson era whereby we set out to entertain (usually the opposition supporters) rather than win in some mad-cap scheme to try and attract 500-700 miserable Walsonians who can't be bothered to go when the team's winning week in week out then we might as well concrete over the pitch and turn Bescot into an entertainment complex.

Those of us that want to watch Walsall play football will no doubt form our own club and get on with it.

Lower division football is what it has always been, and our crowd level this season is on the uppward side of typical of what it has been for the best part of 40 years. Should Walsall have a cup run, or a promotion run-in, or gain promotion - then of course the crowds will increase - as they have always done. This largest average attendance we have had in recent years was during the Colin Lee era, was that due to entertaining football or the results that sustained our membership of what is now The Championship?

[sid swifty]

Well hypothetically Sid, if we changed our principles and went back to the moronic ethos of the Merson era whereby we set out to entertain (usually the opposition supporters) rather than win in some mad-cap scheme to try and attract 500-700 miserable Walsonians who can't be bothered to go when the team's winning week in week out then we might as well concrete over the pitch and turn Bescot into an entertainment complex.

Those of us that want to watch Walsall play football will no doubt form our own club and get on with it.

Lower division football is what it has always been, and our crowd level this season is on the uppward side of typical of what it has been for the best part of 40 years. Should Walsall have a cup run, or a promotion run-in, or gain promotion - then of course the crowds will increase - as they have always done. This largest average attendance we have had in recent years was during the Colin Lee era, was that due to entertaining football or the results that sustained our membership of what is now The Championship?

I would rather have DD than PM Geordie....PM shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a football club ever again (apart from wolves that is... :lol: )....at least DD knows the difference between tactics and Tic-tacs....but there just has to be a happy medium....thats what I am hoping for anyway...because I do miss matchdays...but not the style of football.

[aaaae]

Also what you are missing sid is the emergence of some very promising talents. You can't expect a teenager to come into the first team and play like Ronaldo, but you can (well i do) take a huge amount of satisfaction out of that teenager growing maturing and becoming a really good player. Let's face it, this is one of the few pleasures you get to witness as a Walsall fan. I have been really pleased with the emergence of Bradley for example, who is shaping up like he could become a top player. Or Scott Dann, or Ishmel.

When one of them is playing in the Champions League (perhaps) you can say, "I used to watch him at Walsall".