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Oldham Athletic (H) - League 1 - 23/9/07 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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moaning saddler
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:21 pm

Not a pretty sight today.

Difficult to see how DD is going to shuffle his resources following this debacle.

Crucially, the "dream team" of Mooney/Butler was nowhere to be seen - and, judging by his stupid behaviour at the end, it looks like Mooney is already losing his appetite for the club.

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Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:09 pm

yer that was brave mooney offering a fan out in front of thousands of people, and in a public place. say that to me next time fellah, i'll belt ya no matter who's watching. as for the game one word, ABERRANT

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Neuromantic
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:47 pm

I think a lot of people have been WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHED! on this thread!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Bonser out.

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Salop Saddler
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:02 pm

:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Atomic Rooster
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:03 pm

That was bad the only ones who can hold the heads and gave all was dann,wrackand sonko what upset more than anything was when the second goal went in we gave up the only one's who was trying was dann and wrack wheres all the fight gone the spine of the team is full of old and unfit players we need pace in the centre of midfield somebody who can pass the ball and a pacy striker to play off mooney WHATS GONE WRONG

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Neuromantic
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:03 pm

Salop Saddler wrote::shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:D :D :D

I was sitting there loffin me head off at your posts mate! I think our discussion about Bonser in the Bar will have to come sooner than expected, see yo uat the next home game my friend! :D

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Surrey Saddler
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:15 pm

Salop Saddler wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
tape66 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:A structure in terms of business yes, but not when you think about football, which, IMHO sould be the focus of the company.
When was the last time we actually spent money on a player? And I meant real money. Not the two pints and a bag of crisps for Constable, I mean "Yes Mr Opposing Chairman, we like that player. We'd like to give you £X and him a proper contract. Noooo. Not a loan deal. We want him full time and we're willing to pay you for your trouble".
Oh yeah. That'll be Jorge then. Back in, ooooh. Around 1586AD...


Get your facts right Sal, it was 1589 :roll:


Sorry. My memory is good, but not that good. I only just about remember it. I do however, remember us quibbling about paying £40k for O'Connor, a player who turned out to be a godsend. :wink:


Jeff has spent plenty on this club over the years. Players don't play for free you know.

He has also delivered a business model that we should be proud of, and one that 'smaller' clubs all look up to. In Paul Taylor he has a trusted scout and tallent spotter, and the fact is we have played really, REALLY well in a majoirty of the games so far this season.

Jeeeez, what do you people want?????


Is this a wind up, Salop. If my memory serves me correctly, you, in the past, have been one of Bonsor's major critics. Now, he can do no wrong. What has changed? I think we should be told.

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Neuromantic
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:17 pm

Surrey Saddler wrote:
Salop Saddler wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
tape66 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:A structure in terms of business yes, but not when you think about football, which, IMHO sould be the focus of the company.
When was the last time we actually spent money on a player? And I meant real money. Not the two pints and a bag of crisps for Constable, I mean "Yes Mr Opposing Chairman, we like that player. We'd like to give you £X and him a proper contract. Noooo. Not a loan deal. We want him full time and we're willing to pay you for your trouble".
Oh yeah. That'll be Jorge then. Back in, ooooh. Around 1586AD...


Get your facts right Sal, it was 1589 :roll:


Sorry. My memory is good, but not that good. I only just about remember it. I do however, remember us quibbling about paying £40k for O'Connor, a player who turned out to be a godsend. :wink:


Jeff has spent plenty on this club over the years. Players don't play for free you know.

He has also delivered a business model that we should be proud of, and one that 'smaller' clubs all look up to. In Paul Taylor he has a trusted scout and tallent spotter, and the fact is we have played really, REALLY well in a majoirty of the games so far this season.

Jeeeez, what do you people want?????


Is this a wind up, Salop. If my memory serves me correctly, you, in the past, have been one of Bonsor's major critics. Now, he can do no wrong. What has changed? I think we should be told.


See my post above surrey!! :lol:


whooooooooooooooooooooooosh!!

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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:31 pm

You pressured us for the first 15/20 minutes off the second half. When you had a couple of decent chances, a couple of corners and hit the post. Apart from that not meaning to sound horrid but you was poor, saying that we werent much better, slight improvement on performances this season but nothing compared to last season. The winger number 12 i think that came on looked decent. Roper was terrible.

Cant believe the posts previous in this thread, im a strong believer in omens and past records and when we had beaten you 4 out of 4 in the last 2 seasons i had a feeling we would do you today. Also someone said Sheridan would be gone if we had lost today :? :roll: i very much would of doubted it. In Shez we trust.

Anyway got nothing against you as a club so i hope it goes alright for you this season :D

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Salop Saddler
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:38 pm

Surrey Saddler wrote:
Salop Saddler wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
tape66 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:A structure in terms of business yes, but not when you think about football, which, IMHO sould be the focus of the company.
When was the last time we actually spent money on a player? And I meant real money. Not the two pints and a bag of crisps for Constable, I mean "Yes Mr Opposing Chairman, we like that player. We'd like to give you £X and him a proper contract. Noooo. Not a loan deal. We want him full time and we're willing to pay you for your trouble".
Oh yeah. That'll be Jorge then. Back in, ooooh. Around 1586AD...


Get your facts right Sal, it was 1589 :roll:


Sorry. My memory is good, but not that good. I only just about remember it. I do however, remember us quibbling about paying £40k for O'Connor, a player who turned out to be a godsend. :wink:


Jeff has spent plenty on this club over the years. Players don't play for free you know.

He has also delivered a business model that we should be proud of, and one that 'smaller' clubs all look up to. In Paul Taylor he has a trusted scout and tallent spotter, and the fact is we have played really, REALLY well in a majoirty of the games so far this season.

Jeeeez, what do you people want?????


Is this a wind up, Salop. If my memory serves me correctly, you, in the past, have been one of Bonsor's major critics. Now, he can do no wrong. What has changed? I think we should be told.


Yes it was a wind up. And as I admitted on page 6, it was simply an attempt to view things from a slightly different perspective, and one which I ultimately found to be uncomfortable. I do try to see things 'in the round' and am generally very open minded to most things and I do attempt from time to time to walk in 'another's shoes', so to speak. But I drew the line with Mr. Bonser some years ago, and as hard as I try to step beyond it...I simply can't.

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Salop Saddler
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:39 pm

Massachusetts Saddler wrote:
Salop Saddler wrote::shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:D :D :D

I was sitting there loffin me head off at your posts mate! I think our discussion about Bonser in the Bar will have to come sooner than expected, see yo uat the next home game my friend! :D


In the diary :D

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SaigonSaddler
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:39 pm

Tim_Shuck wrote:You pressured us for the first 15/20 minutes off the second half. When you had a couple of decent chances, a couple of corners and hit the post. Apart from that not meaning to sound horrid but you was poor, saying that we werent much better, slight improvement on performances this season but nothing compared to last season. The winger number 12 i think that came on looked decent. Roper was terrible.

Cant believe the posts previous in this thread, im a strong believer in omens and past records and when we had beaten you 4 out of 4 in the last 2 seasons i had a feeling we would do you today. Also someone said Sheridan would be gone if we had lost today :? :roll: i very much would of doubted it. In Shez we trust.

Anyway got nothing against you as a club so i hope it goes alright for you this season :D


Cheers, always good to hear from a real supporter and not a big time Manu charlie :wink:

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Exile
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:47 pm

Addis Saddler wrote:You've got me worried now. I was planning on a trip to Egypt soon and hoped to take in a game in Cairo. Never thought that being Ramadan all the players would be leaving the field before the end......


Made me loff.

Disappointed, and now getting worried. Exclude the pro-Merson bias in FSB's comments and I find myself agreeing more. What it takes to get out of the Twilight Zone of league 2 is not what it takes to play around in 1. What next? Will we regret that three year contract before appreciation kicks in?

Get yourself a number 2, Dickie.

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PT
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:55 pm

Just got back (yes some of us don't get back till this time). I've tried to see the positives so far this season - missed chances, unlucky, bad decisions etc, but today we were truly awful.

I've seen us lose hundreds of times but this one is special in that there are absolutely no redeeming features for the manager or any player.

Mooney should be fined for his full time reaction. If I challenged a disgruntled customer to a fight there would be only one outcome.

For the first time I find myself questioning DD's ability, because he got everything wrong today.

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Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:58 pm

10 game is the benchmark as to where a side will be around and about for the rest of the season. Dosh himself said that earlier this season. If we lose next Saturday, we could be bottom by three clear points. That simply isn't good enough, particularly for a side who came up as champions and should have looked to push on from that.

I'm happy with Richard Money. I think it is too early to talk about him going, but give it 3 or 4 more home games like that, then the first serious 'Money Out' calls are going to come. And justifiably so. I am struggling to think of a more depressing game that at home in the past 5 years or so. Hartlepool at home under Merson a couple of seasons ago springs to mind, as does the Yeovil game from the same season. Both those games characterised us as a side who couldn't create a chance, let alone the goal. We are in exactly the same situation, yet again - a side who cannot create chances.

I'd like to analyse the changes, if I could.

Sonko wasn't up to 90 minutes, apparently. A) I think that is rubbish, but B) why did he start in the first place? We had three players in the squad who could have played on the wing other than him (Hall, Wrack or Ishmel - not to mention Alex Nicholls who wasn't in the squad). If the guy isn't up to the whole game, then use him as a substitute to make an impact. If we are worried about his stamina when fasting, then I'd suggest we only make him train on a couple of days during the week. Give him time to rest and to concentrate on his religion, which is clearly important to him if, as a professional athlete, he is fasting strictly. That way we have a fully rested player ready for Saturday. Too easy?

Deeney brought on into midfield baffled me, and still does. I actually can't think of any reason why it was done. If he'd have gone up top and we'd have gone 4-3-3 if would have been an attacking move. As it was, it was nothing but a total waste of a substitution, and can't have done any good for his confidence.

Sonner, for better or worse, is the best 'ball-playing' central midfielder we have. So why leave Gerrard on when Sonner goes off? If Gerrard is to play in midfield (which he shouldn't do, he is a defender and nothing more), he NEEDS a central midfielder alongside him. Wracky isn't a central midfielder, and I'm struggling to think of what Wrack's role is anymore. Before the injury he was probably the tidiest player we had got, but now he is a League Two footballer at MOST.
Everyone knows I'm a fan of Dobson - there is no way he can be second choice behind Anthony Gerrard. However, saying that, I would sacrifice him in an instant if we could bring in an attacking central midfielder in his place alongside Sonner. I wonder if Mark Bradley or David McDermott could play that role?

I said all last season that Wright's virtue was that he provided an outlet. He wasn't technically the best player, he wasn't the strongest, but he wasn't afraid to run with the ball. This is VITAL to have on both wings. Hall can't do that because he doesn't have the pace. Nor can Wrack. Sonko is a tidier Mark Wright. No strength, but pace and someone who wants the ball. That is what we didn't want today, and it was the poorest aspect of our play, in my opinion. Everyone time someone got the ball, they wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible.
Gerrard did nothing but look to hoof it, and I'd actually say that Dann fell into the same trap. Roper is very short on form.
Fox is just settling into a midfield role he has been trying for nearly two years. Today would have been the perfect chance to hand Netan Sansara a debut - at home against a team who don't use wingers as much as other teams at this level. We could have played Fox and Sonner together in the middle, and actually capitalised on a (by all accounts) impressive display by Fox last week. Money said he wouldn't have been afraid to bring in Sansara - but why was he?

The biggest thing that alot of people I spoke to picked up on was Butler's poor forward play. Mooney won alot in the air today, but everyone knows where those headers are going. They take out Mooney's marker and drop half way between him and the other centre half. Why wasn't Butler moving towards those flick-ons? Because he is too slow. We are in exactly the same situation we were with Osborn and Kinsella - Mooney and Butler are much too similar to play alongside each other. Deeney should be up there. Infact, Constable should be up there. But that is an old debate.

So, not very encouraging. I have very little faith in us getting a result next week, but who knows? Knowing us we'll nick a 2-1 win and everyone will be raving. However, it is home performances which keep a manager in a job - and if our play doesn't pick up pace and tempo quickly, then Money will be in trouble. And that IS a real shame, and such a waste.

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Neuromantic
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:01 pm

I actually think I would do better either up front or in midfield than the current incumbents!

DISOC!

:wink:


I am totally baffled and down this evening. :cry:

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Salop Saddler
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:23 pm

It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light.

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Cheesebag
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:35 pm

Very poor, highlighting how poor DD has been with assembling his squad in close season. Don't want to say I told you so pre season but.....





I told you so. :o

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sj
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:44 pm

Salop-- Yes in to the light, the second light.

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Salop Saddler
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:52 pm

I was going for the first light to be honest.

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Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:22 pm

Logged on expecting the usual debate between the glass half full and glass half empty fans but it's all very one-sided isn't it?

DD's initial assertion that he was happy with this squad has already started to crack in recent weeks and it will be interesting to see whether we do bring any new faces in as we surely need to.

It's these kind of periods that Bonser must hate as:

a) He may have to put his hand in his pocket (albeit as one of his repayable loans) to fund some new players.

b) The natives are restless so all the enduring arguments about what he puts into the club versus what he takes out resurface.

If there is money for players, as various 'insiders' on this board have assured us there is, then we might just be OK. If not we're in trouble. And JB will have presided over our fall from a club that yo-yo'd between Championship and 1st to one that could conceivably do the same between 1st and 2nd.

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SaigonSaddler
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:25 pm

bangsection wrote:Logged on expecting the usual debate between the glass half full and glass half empty fans but it's all very one-sided isn't it?

DD's initial assertion that he was happy with this squad has already started to crack in recent weeks and it will be interesting to see whether we do bring any new faces in as we surely need to.

It's these kind of periods that Bonser must hate as:

a) He may have to put his hand in his pocket (albeit as one of his repayable loans) to fund some new players.

b) The natives are restless so all the enduring arguments about what he puts into the club versus what he takes out resurface.

If there is money for players, as various 'insiders' on this board have assured us there is, then we might just be OK. If not we're in trouble. And JB will have presided over our fall from a club that yo-yo'd between Championship and 1st to one that could conceivably do the same between 1st and 2nd.


Just like Notts County :x

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geoffwhiting
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Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:53 pm

Salop Saddler wrote:It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light.


Light? You mean there actually IS a light?

Or will it turn out to be the headlight on an express train coming in the opposite direction? :?

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Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:10 am

So did i, i also sed people on the other side would agree in the end, and on mass now they are.
Cheesebag wrote:Very poor, highlighting how poor DD has been with assembling his squad in close season. Don't want to say I told you so pre season but.....





I told you so. :o

sack
 
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Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:25 am

Yes but thats presumeing he actually cares, l2 was very lucrative, with us winning on a smaller budget being considered a big fish so getting lots of sky games, and the gates holding up. being in l2 actually makes good business sense dus it not. give that some thought. i'm not saying theres anything in it but there it is.
SaigonSaddler wrote:
bangsection wrote:Logged on expecting the usual debate between the glass half full and glass half empty fans but it's all very one-sided isn't it?

DD's initial assertion that he was happy with this squad has already started to crack in recent weeks and it will be interesting to see whether we do bring any new faces in as we surely need to.

It's these kind of periods that Bonser must hate as:

a) He may have to put his hand in his pocket (albeit as one of his repayable loans) to fund some new players.

b) The natives are restless so all the enduring arguments about what he puts into the club versus what he takes out resurface.

If there is money for players, as various 'insiders' on this board have assured us there is, then we might just be OK. If not we're in trouble. And JB will have presided over our fall from a club that yo-yo'd between Championship and 1st to one that could conceivably do the same between 1st and 2nd.


Just like Notts County :x

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Duke
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Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:54 am

DD got everything wrong yesterday , from the staring line up to his use of subs.
We started with Wrack playing wide , his days playing wide are over to be fair he improved when he moved to a central role , but still as the annoying habit of giving the ball away far to often.
A centre back started in midfield , to be replaced by an unexperienced striker while Dobson sat on the bench.
We have all waited to see Butler and Mooney upfront , it did'nt work 2 players doing the same job , often getting in each others way .
And to cap it all the only player who looked anything like a threat was replaced by Hall . unbelievable.
Its to early for i told you so's , but DD must have a good look at things and use the loan market , before the rot sets in.

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Exile
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Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:26 am

sj wrote:Salop-- Yes in to the light, the second light.


Can we give Bonser the third light? :twisted:

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Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:07 am

Couldn't get on until this morning.
A dreadful performance which if repeated will drive away the 'cash-paying fans'
Butler was totally useless,when any ball was played to his feet he needed 3/4 youches which gave the opposition time to cover and tackle, Wrack tried to set up wall passes and ran through several times only for Butler to ignore the chance of quick play and ended up having to give it to a defender, and we all know that our defenders have only one option 'whack it' obviously this makes other players look bad, too many times he was on his heels rather than his toes he just did not look interested.
IMHO Butler should have come off and Deeney put up front with Mooney.
Given their forwards they were always going to play runnig wide and in the air to Ricketts.
Roper should only play when there's 6" of mud on the ground, great servant though he has been, he is way past his prime
and really should not feature unless we have no other central defenders available.
Fox was fine in the first half but dire in the second when they pushed up onto him.
All in all a really bad day at the office for most players! and definately for D.D.

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Duke
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Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:18 am

So easy to blame defenders after an heavy defeat , so easy to blame strikers when we don't score.
Midfielders are suppose to cover the defence and create for the strikers , I said to my son half way through the first half , whats happend to our midfield , he replied what midfield Dad , sums it up really.

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OldPenkSaddler
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Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:34 am

You can sum up yesterday's performance by the players and the manager with MMF's new buzzword - CLUELESS.

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