Oldham Athletic (H) - League 1 - 23/9/07 3pm

[Cueball]

A structure in terms of business yes, but not when you think about football, which, IMHO sould be the focus of the company.
When was the last time we actually spent money on a player? And I meant real money. Not the two pints and a bag of crisps for Constable, I mean "Yes Mr Opposing Chairman, we like that player. We'd like to give you £X and him a proper contract. Noooo. Not a loan deal. We want him full time and we're willing to pay you for your trouble".
Oh yeah. That'll be Jorge then. Back in, ooooh. Around 1586AD...

Get your facts right Sal, it was 1589 :roll:

Sorry. My memory is good, but not that good. I only just about remember it. I do however, remember us quibbling about paying £40k for O'Connor, a player who turned out to be a godsend. :wink:

Jeff has spent plenty on this club over the years. Players don't play for free you know.

He has also delivered a business model that we should be proud of, and one that 'smaller' clubs all look up to. In Paul Taylor he has a trusted scout and tallent spotter, and the fact is we have played really, REALLY well in a majoirty of the games so far this season.

Jeeeez, what do you people want?????

Are you on a wind-up?
:shock:

[Salop Saddler]

Didn't take you long to appear did it? Amazing how you always go quiet when things are going well.

:roll: and what have you got to say that's constructive???

[SaigonSaddler]

Didn't take you long to appear did it? Amazing how you always go quiet when things are going well.

That was aimed at futuresobright. When I started to type there were no posts after his.

He is an empty vessel. Imagine the 'fun' to be had at the pub with him!

I'd rather drink alone :P

[Tez66]

On the playing side of things, I hope there are others who noticed the lack of movement from players when the defenders had the ball. 2 Centre midfielders and neither of them came to pick up the ball from the centre backs.

There's a lack of movement full stop, but it's been missing for a lomg time now which is why we limped over the line last season.

My Under 10's team would give this lot a hard game at the minute.

[SaigonSaddler]

Didn't take you long to appear did it? Amazing how you always go quiet when things are going well.

:roll: and what have you got to say that's constructive???

I thought it was a valid observation, aimed a particularly negative poster who appears ONLY when we lose.

[Bill]

On the playing side of things, I hope there are others who noticed the lack of movement from players when the defenders had the ball. 2 Centre midfielders and neither of them came to pick up the ball from the centre backs.

There's a lack of movement full stop, but it's been missing for a lomg time now which is why we limped over the line last season.

My Under 10's team would give this lot a hard game at the minute.

Yeah, no movement equals long ball. Long ball equals nothing when there's knowone capable of picking up the pieces.

[Salop Saddler]

Didn't take you long to appear did it? Amazing how you always go quiet when things are going well.

That was aimed at futuresobright. When I started to type there were no posts after his.

He is an empty vessel. Imagine the 'fun' to be had at the pub with him!

I'd rather drink alone :P

Sorry Mr. Gittins. I thought you were talking to me whilst looking at him...sorry.

....are you calling me an empty vessel SS?

[SaigonSaddler]

Didn't take you long to appear did it? Amazing how you always go quiet when things are going well.

That was aimed at futuresobright. When I started to type there were no posts after his.

He is an empty vessel. Imagine the 'fun' to be had at the pub with him!

I'd rather drink alone :P

Sorry Mr. Gittins. I thought you were talking to me whilst looking at him...sorry.

....are you calling me an empty vessel SS?

No, no and thrice no! Aimed squarely at FSB!!!

[latviancheese]

I cant stop laughing. Your actually going to blame Bonser for that!


Jesus Christ, come up with something new.

Still, a pile of guff.

Well to be honest, if you cant see the bigger picture, more the fool you. zero investment = crappy players = crappy performances. get it ?

I can see that, but surely you blame Richard Money for spending what money he did have on slow old farts like Paul Hall.

[Tez66]

On the playing side of things, I hope there are others who noticed the lack of movement from players when the defenders had the ball. 2 Centre midfielders and neither of them came to pick up the ball from the centre backs.

There's a lack of movement full stop, but it's been missing for a lomg time now which is why we limped over the line last season.

My Under 10's team would give this lot a hard game at the minute.

Yeah, no movement equals long ball. Long ball equals nothing when there's knowone capable of picking up the pieces.

The last time Walsall were without any pace in midfield a certain M O'Connor was signed - all hail the GOD.

Surely there must be someone out there who wants some 1st team action or wants to step up a grade or two. Where's our UK scouting?


PS I wonder whether GOD would make a better fist of the hot seat at the Banks's :wink:

[Joe90]

Jeeeez, what do you people want?????

A successful football team?

And it is riduculous to claim otherwise.

[ToeJoe Jnr]

A structure in terms of business yes, but not when you think about football, which, IMHO sould be the focus of the company.
When was the last time we actually spent money on a player? And I meant real money. Not the two pints and a bag of crisps for Constable, I mean "Yes Mr Opposing Chairman, we like that player. We'd like to give you £X and him a proper contract. Noooo. Not a loan deal. We want him full time and we're willing to pay you for your trouble".
Oh yeah. That'll be Jorge then. Back in, ooooh. Around 1586AD...

Get your facts right Sal, it was 1589 :roll:

Sorry. My memory is good, but not that good. I only just about remember it. I do however, remember us quibbling about paying £40k for O'Connor, a player who turned out to be a godsend. :wink:

Jeff has spent plenty on this club over the years. Players don't play for free you know.

He has also delivered a business model that we should be proud of, and one that 'smaller' clubs all look up to. In Paul Taylor he has a trusted scout and tallent spotter, and the fact is we have played really, REALLY well in a majoirty of the games so far this season.

Jeeeez, what do you people want?????

As you ask....

I would like a team that has players playing in THE POSITIONS they should be playing in.

I would like some kind of consistency with regards to team selection to allow the said team to gel.

I would like to know how many Centre-half, Centre Midfield and Centre-forward combinations we have tried this season.

I would like Danny Sonner to just once go into a 60/40 challenge in his favour and come out with the ball.

I would like to stop Asbo taking corners.

There is plenty more I would like but Santa only has certain storage capacity in his sack.

[Joe90]

On the playing side of things, I hope there are others who noticed the lack of movement from players when the defenders had the ball. 2 Centre midfielders and neither of them came to pick up the ball from the centre backs.

There's a lack of movement full stop, but it's been missing for a lomg time now which is why we limped over the line last season.

My Under 10's team would give this lot a hard game at the minute.

Yeah, no movement equals long ball. Long ball equals nothing when there's knowone capable of picking up the pieces.

The last time Walsall were without any pace in midfield a certain M O'Connor was signed - all hail the GOD.

Surely there must be someone out there who wants some 1st team action or wants to step up a grade or two. Where's our UK scouting?


PS I wonder whether GOD would make a better fist of the hot seat at the Banks's :wink:

Didn't we have to shell out some money for him? :wink:

[philthesaddler]

I cant stop laughing. Your actually going to blame Bonser for that!


Jesus Christ, come up with something new.

Still, a pile of guff.

Well to be honest, if you cant see the bigger picture, more the fool you. zero investment = crappy players = crappy performances. get it ?

I can see that, but surely you blame Richard Money for spending what money he did have on slow old farts like Paul Hall.

You've got a point, but if he's so limited in his budget that he's resorting to 36 year olds then my god, he cant have had much choice.

[Tez66]

On the playing side of things, I hope there are others who noticed the lack of movement from players when the defenders had the ball. 2 Centre midfielders and neither of them came to pick up the ball from the centre backs.

There's a lack of movement full stop, but it's been missing for a lomg time now which is why we limped over the line last season.

My Under 10's team would give this lot a hard game at the minute.

Yeah, no movement equals long ball. Long ball equals nothing when there's knowone capable of picking up the pieces.

The last time Walsall were without any pace in midfield a certain M O'Connor was signed - all hail the GOD.

Surely there must be someone out there who wants some 1st team action or wants to step up a grade or two. Where's our UK scouting?


PS I wonder whether GOD would make a better fist of the hot seat at the Banks's :wink:

Didn't we have to shell out some money for him? :wink:

So used to us not paying out that I forgot we paid for him!!

That's that then....... back to the drawing board. :wink:

[Young_Tong]

I usually abstain from commenting after a loss but I feel unable to do so after a drubbing from such a poor team.

Clayton Ince - Looked solid but didn't really have a chance with the first two. As commented hundreds of times, his kicking needs a lot of work but maybe you can't teach an old dog new tricks (or kicks).

Weston - Drifted in and out and didn't know how to attack.

Roper - Gifted Ricketts his goal after he switched off, good in the air and clearing the ball but other than that he was found wanting today.

Dann - I thought he was decent. He does all the shouting and made a couple of vital tackles.

Fox - First half, very good. Second half, dreadful. His distribution is poor and he wasted posession far too often.

Wrack - Thanks for the tickets. Looked good on the ball but had a tough time against his opposite number.

Sonko - First time I've seen Edrissa play and the few opportunities he had on the ball he looked like the only player with a bit of attacking nous. Got substituted in a desperate roll of the dice by DD.

Sonner - Very poor. He does not hold onto the ball and always seems to go for the difficult pass.

Gerrard - I don't care who his cousin is but he cannot play in midfield. Dobson back NOW.

Mooney - Spent more time dueling with the away fans than actually trying to do something on the field. Flicked the ball on well but they never went to anyone because Butler was being forced to come deep.

Butler - See above remarks about positioning. He cannot rely on pace so he MUST move further up the pitch to latch onto Mooney's flick ons.

Ishy - Dreadful corner taking and didn't once beat the first man. Took delight in skinning the same defender 3 times before passing the ball.

Deeney - I feel sorry for him. He get's put into midfield and you could see the confusion on Wracky's face when he moved into centre midfield. What was this move all about?!

Hall - I just cannot see him as an impact player so why put him on? He added nothing to our attacking options and I cannot see what he offers to the squad if I'm brutally honest!

On another note Gregan was outstanding for Oldham. He really bossed Oldham's defence and took Butler AND Mooney out of the game. Ricketts made a brilliant block for us in the first half I also never remembered him as being such a cheat. Lee who?

We should have enough in our squad to beat teams like this. We should have played Deeney or Ish up front against Gregan to try the pace route past the wily veteran. Tactics and Substitutions were IMO not effective today (obviously) and perhaps DD needs a number 2 to bounce ideas off?

The officials today were terrible! The linesman in front of the Health stand must have had a bad arm or something because his flag wouldn't go up when a Walsall player was fouled and the referee just didn't seem to have a clue and I wonder if the first goal might have been offside? It looked like it to me.

Up The Saddlers

[geoffwhiting]

Bottom of the League and i think in all fairness we deserve to be there!!! Our performances have just not been good enough and todays effort was dreadful!!! Mr Money has got some explaining to do especially following the substitutions he made i mean Deeney in the middle of the park??!! WHY?? Dobson was on the bench!!! Substitution Sonko when he was one of the only players performing - MADNESS and for Hall of all people EVEN MORE INSANITY!!

I used to rate our management but today looked like desperation!!

Lets face it - we suck!!!

Beat me to it :wink:

And me. Our manager cost us the game. Plain and simple. With his initial selection (Gerrard is a centre half, we're playing the side who are bottom of the league, at home, and we have Sonner as a partner in the centre - Roper, looked half asleep long before their first goal went in, he was very, very poor first half), BUT the subs were just bizarre.

Sonko seemed to be growing as the game went on, and I thought the move would have been to put him into the middle, alongside Wrack, if Hall was going to be brought on. Hall did absolutely nothing. Deeney as a young striker shouldn't thank the manager for throwing him into a difficult game out of position. I wonder under what circumstances Dobson would have been brought on, given we start the game with a centre half in the middle and end it with a striker there. Why was he on the bench at all?

Ish raised the tempo for 10 minutes, then went missing. His corners are about the worst I've ever seen. No end product, bar one good cross that someone could have got on the end of. Players who did o.k. Dann, Weston, Fox and Sonko. Gerrard played as well as a very average centre half playing in midfield could. Ditto Deeney.

The selection and decisions are more worrying than the result. I wonder what in the name of Christ Money sees that we don't. The decision to replace Sonko was loudly derided, and rightly so. Watch the vid, 'Dickie Dosh'. You got it so, so wrong today.

I feel so low tonight that I can hardly be bothered to post. Just a shocking performance, and the embarrassment of going down 3-0 to such a very poor side is almost too much to bear. I'm just shocked. Having said that, 3-0 is incredibly flattering of Oldham, who seem to me to have been given goals 2 and 3 on a plate. At least they created the first for themselves, which is something we could not do, even when a rare Ishy moment presented a ball into the 6-yard box with the goal gaping and none of our players alert enough to get on the end of it. Had we scored then, at 1-0 down, we may have gone on to win, but in truth we rarely looked like scoring all game, other than that 5 minutes after half-time and a great free-kick from Fox that would have burst the net if it had been just slightly further left.

I agree with almost everything posted in the above quotes, and if THAT kind of side goes out at Hartlepool next weekend, then Geordie is surely right, WE WILL get slaughtered.

I am very deeply concerned that we seem to have no credible direction, I thought we had, but today's substitutions have blown away all my previous thoughts on that and my confidence has really drained away today, seeing the ineptitude displayed today in DD's increasingly desperate changes that were always doomed to failure.

I need a few pints tonight, this is desperate stuff! :evil:

[Plastic Hawk]

What a load of absolute garbage. 3-0 defeat at home to the side bottom of the league, players being played out of position again, the best player subbed off with half an hour to go players offering fans outside at the end - totally shambolic. Disgraceful performance - straight out of the Merson textbook.

Ince: No chance with the first two goals. Looked more confident than the last few games. In no-mans-land for the third, but the game was gone by then.
Weston: Decent game, linked up well with Sonko.
Fox: Another good game, still needs to work on his distribution but one of the bright spots of this season.
Roper: Switched off for Ricketts' goal, can't run. Is it a coincidence that we won the game he went off early in?
Dann: Did ok, but is constantly having to cover for Roper's lack of mobility. Also needs to talk (the 30-year-old) Roper through the game. Needs help. Looked injured at the end, may have contributed to the farcical third goal.
Sonko: Man of the match for me, always a threat on the ball. Taken off early in the second half - madness.
Wrack: Tidy, but can't run or tackle.
Sonner: Passenger, can't run.
Gerrard: Tried his best but isn't a midfielder in a hundred years - not his fault.
Mooney: Some nice flicks, but can't run. Offered a fan outside at the end - it's to be hoped he's a better fighter than he is a footballer these days else he'll be out for several more weeks. If DD was pinning his hopes on TM then he's been kidding himself.
Butler: Can't run, can't jump, hardly touched the ball.

Subs:
Ishmel: Looked bright on the ball, still needs to work on the final ball, faded late on as he moved back to left back to cover for Dann's injury.
Deeney: Played central midfield for half an hour. Why? He's a striker. Looked lost - not surprising.
Hall: Waste of a wage, can't run anymore. Did we give him a trial before offering him a contract?

Without new people coming in as soon as possible we're in big trouble. This current squad is going to get relegated by 20 points or more. We need a striker who can actually run and knows where the goal is and we need at least one central midfielder (probably two) - and we need them now.

Great post..... Agreed with everything.....


..... until the bit in RED.

:shock:

It may look a bit OTT, but if you don't score goals then you can only pick up points one at a time. And 30 draws (we won't get that many) only gets you 30 points - and that'll be 20 points off safety. Of our six "attacking" players today, one was a defender and another four can't run. How do you score goals with them on the pitch?

[Dave Gittins]

The officials today were terrible! The linesman in front of the Health stand must have had a bad arm or something because his flag wouldn't go up when a Walsall player was fouled and the referee just didn't seem to have a clue and I wonder if the first goal might have been offside? It looked like it to me.

Up The Saddlers

I hate to say it but the Ricketts goal was one of the few right decisions today - he came from behind Roper to beat the offside trap.

[Young_Tong]

The officials today were terrible! The linesman in front of the Health stand must have had a bad arm or something because his flag wouldn't go up when a Walsall player was fouled and the referee just didn't seem to have a clue and I wonder if the first goal might have been offside? It looked like it to me.

Up The Saddlers

I hate to say it but the Ricketts goal was one of the few right decisions today - he came from behind Roper to beat the offside trap.

Fair enough! I was sat quite a distance away so it's difficult to say + I have a bias towards Walsall!

[Plastic Hawk]

Money is on now and he isn't trying to hide, he will not become a bad manager after 6 games. Sonko fasting thats why he was pulled off .

Just a bad day at the office for me.

No, he has been an appalling manager for over 60 games with Walsall and for many more games if we count his failures with every other club he has worked for. As I stressed throughout the last season, Mr Touchy's signings, selections and tactics are abysmal. We should have torn League 2 apart, instead it was touch and go to even get automatic promotion. I urged Bonser not to trust Mr T with the club's limited resources during the close season. Sadly, he did and true to form Mr T swooped for Mooney (36), Sonner (35), Hall (35) and a 32 year old foreign forward with a scoring record worse than Ian Roper's. This season he has continued to select rubbish he has bought to the club (Butler!!!) rather than use the talented youngsters he inherited. PM was useless but at least we had some cup runs, finished 14th and kept out of the relegation zone.

What, personally? :roll:

You do know that JB doesn't make his decisions based on wind-up posters on message boards don't you?

Unfortunately, for all I think that you're just here to get a reaction and that I shouldn't respond, your final sentence seems worryingly close to the truth at the moment. We're seeing many of the same mistakes being repeated. There's no pace or height going forwards - successful sides need at least one - and we're putting square pegs in round holes - that's a recipe for disaster.

[ws3]

The officials today were terrible! The linesman in front of the Health stand must have had a bad arm or something because his flag wouldn't go up when a Walsall player was fouled and the referee just didn't seem to have a clue and I wonder if the first goal might have been offside? It looked like it to me.

Up The Saddlers

I hate to say it but the Ricketts goal was one of the few right decisions today - he came from behind Roper to beat the offside trap.

Fair enough! I was sat quite a distance away so it's difficult to say + I have a bias towards Walsall!

And Roper stood there with his hand in the air instead of playing to the whistle.

[Asps]

if Merson had made the substitutions that Money made today, I'd have been screaming abuse at the fat cockernee git. The decisions were inept - putting Deeney into central midfield killed off any chance we had of forcing a result as Wrack had to stop the forward runs that were scaring Oldham. Until that substitution, we had a chance of getting a point as Oldham were poo.

DD made some good excuses on the radio as to his decisions, but they frankly sounded like self-justification. Contrast this to McCarthy for the dingles in mid-week - admitted that he made mistakes as well as slating his players. DD doesn't compare well.

He's got until February as far as I'm concerned to sort this mess out.

Totally agree.

DD has lost the plot and is panicking.

This is his team, full of veterans & overseas castaways, he has only himself to blame for that.

Excuses like Ramadam just don't wash

[Plastic Hawk]

The officials today were terrible! The linesman in front of the Health stand must have had a bad arm or something because his flag wouldn't go up when a Walsall player was fouled and the referee just didn't seem to have a clue and I wonder if the first goal might have been offside? It looked like it to me.

Up The Saddlers

I hate to say it but the Ricketts goal was one of the few right decisions today - he came from behind Roper to beat the offside trap.

Fair enough! I was sat quite a distance away so it's difficult to say + I have a bias towards Walsall!

And Roper stood there with his hand in the air instead of playing to the whistle.

He looked onside all the way to me unfortunately. Roper switched off, either didn't see or didn't track his run and then just stood there with his hand up desperately hoping to be bailed out by the linesman.

Good finish by Ricketts, though - and fair play to the lad for not celebrating.

[Addis Saddler]

You've got me worried now. I was planning on a trip to Egypt soon and hoped to take in a game in Cairo. Never thought that being Ramadan all the players would be leaving the field before the end......

On the positive side, nice to see Joe 90 is back to her normal self!

[Pedro]

So what happens at Easter and Xmas then, have we any Jewish players

[Salop Saddler]

Didn't take you long to appear did it? Amazing how you always go quiet when things are going well.

That was aimed at futuresobright. When I started to type there were no posts after his.

He is an empty vessel. Imagine the 'fun' to be had at the pub with him!

I'd rather drink alone :P

Sorry Mr. Gittins. I thought you were talking to me whilst looking at him...sorry.

....are you calling me an empty vessel SS?

No, no and thrice no! Aimed squarely at FSB!!!

:wink:

[Salop Saddler]

A structure in terms of business yes, but not when you think about football, which, IMHO sould be the focus of the company.
When was the last time we actually spent money on a player? And I meant real money. Not the two pints and a bag of crisps for Constable, I mean "Yes Mr Opposing Chairman, we like that player. We'd like to give you £X and him a proper contract. Noooo. Not a loan deal. We want him full time and we're willing to pay you for your trouble".
Oh yeah. That'll be Jorge then. Back in, ooooh. Around 1586AD...

Get your facts right Sal, it was 1589 :roll:

Sorry. My memory is good, but not that good. I only just about remember it. I do however, remember us quibbling about paying £40k for O'Connor, a player who turned out to be a godsend. :wink:

Jeff has spent plenty on this club over the years. Players don't play for free you know.

He has also delivered a business model that we should be proud of, and one that 'smaller' clubs all look up to. In Paul Taylor he has a trusted scout and tallent spotter, and the fact is we have played really, REALLY well in a majoirty of the games so far this season.

Jeeeez, what do you people want?????

Are you on a wind-up?
:shock:

Yep.

Sorry Bath, Joe 90 and others. It was nothing more than a deluded attempt to make myself feel better.

In truth it's just a load of old lavatory plop. Both in the boardroom and out on the pitch.

[stourbridgeandy]

A deeply worrying performance. I don't think we should be calling for DD's head yet though.

A midfield that was completely inadequate and totally outclassed for all of the match except for the 10-15 minutes after half time when Ishy came on. No one could win and hold the ball and the passing was appalling. Trying to make do and mend by playing defenders and strikers in midfield is doomed to failure.

As loads of people have already said Butler and Mooney at least on the evidence so far seem too similar to work as a partnership - thats assuming they get any decent service in the first place

DD needs to get the team doing the basic things they did so well last year - playing as a disciplined, well drilled defensive unit and keeping the ball. If we can stop shipping goals maybe we can build from there with two or three astute loan signings in midfield and up front.

Otherwise however we are looking at a relegation dogfight.

[WFC_Rob]

DD needs to get the team doing the basic things they did so well last year - playing as a disciplined, well drilled defensive unit and keeping the ball. If we can stop shipping goals maybe we can build from there with two or three astute loan signings in midfield and up front.

Decent post, Andy.

I've picked up on the quoted bit because I'm not so sure that what you say is even possible. Do we have the ability in this squad to keep the ball in this league? Even if we manage to improve that aspect of our game, we don't look like we have the strikers to cause defences enough problems. I'd probably give Deeney a chance before I brought in another striker although a midfield is needed immediately.