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Reserves v. West Bromwich Albion - 11/9/07

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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Reserves v. West Bromwich Albion - 11/9/07

Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:53 pm

Saddlers 1 2 Tesco Bagladies

played at the Banks's Stadium

Attendance:- 416 (good turnout of Baggies' fans - unlike the Dingles, last week)

Walsall (4-4-2)

Bertrand Bossu

Richard Taundry
Manny Smith
Netan Sansara
Ishmel Demontagnac

Alex Nicholls
David McDermott
Mark Bradley (Capt.)
Leon Quarless (Chris Hanna, 45 min.)

Joao Batista Mawete (Junior)
Troy Deeney

Unused Substitutes:-
Harry Harris
Tom Schwarz
Richard Davies
Tom Cox (gk)

P.S. Allan Picken didn't play!

Manager:- Eric McManus (with DD watching from the ASBO2GO Lower)


............and for any lurking Bagladies!

Albion (4-4-2)

Luke Steele

Jared Hodgkiss (Capt.)
Shelton Martis
Bostjan Cesar
Tininho

David Worrall
Ronnie Wallwork
Richard Chaplow (Lateef Alliyu, 77 min.)
Sherjill McDonald

Bartosz Slusarski
Ishmael Miller (Ricky Nicholls, 61 min.)

Unused Substitutes:-
Michael Nardiello
Scott Mason
Joss Labadie

P.S. John "Michelin Man" Hartson didn't play either!

Manager:- Craig Shakespeare (who?)


Goal Log:-
14th min. - 1-0 - right wing cross from Nicholls splendidly headed in by Junior.
44th min. - 1-1 - Baggies' pressure eventually paid off when Miller controlled MacDonald's left wing cross and drove home from 10 yards.
70th min - 2-1 - the giant Cesar moved up for a left wing corner to head the Baggies into the lead.

Sinners' List:-
52nd min. - Chaplow cautioned for unsporting behaviour (nasty foul on McDermott) - bully! He should pick on someone his own size - I suppose his hair was in his eyes!
72nd min. - Demontagnac cautioned for unsporting behaviour (a "nothing" tackle on Chaplow) - quite unjustified.
92nd min. – Cesar cautioned for unsporting behaviour (a foul on Ishy). It was funny watching Ishy trying to “eyeball” Cesar in a confrontation – with Ishy just about coming up to Cesar’s navel!

Comments:-
It is fair to say that the Albion enjoyed more of the play in the first half but this young and relatively inexperienced Walsall second string has tremendous character and always keep fighting. It was interesting to see the experiment of Sansara in central defence and both he and Smith stook manfully to their task against the giant Miller and Slusarski, who always posed a threat, as did MacDonald, on the left wing. For their own part, the young Saddlers always looked dangerous, on the break
The second half followed a similar pattern and so the Albion just about deserved their win. The big (and I use that word deliberately) difference was physical size in key areas. Two big strikers and another couple of knuckle-scrapers at the back proved a handful for the smaller Walsall lads. It would be interesting to compare the wage bill for tonight’s Albion squad with that of the Walsall squad. I know which one gave better value for money (and Money!) – and they weren’t playing in blue and white stripes!
Defence:- Bossu again in good form; Taundry was solid; Ishy was – well – Ishy!; Smith and Sansara battled extremely well against their strong opponents and tonight’s game would have been a great experience for them.
Midfield:- Bradley was a little disappointing compared with his usual high standard but McDermott had another good game, generally getting the better of Wallwork and Chaplow; Quarless and Hanna did very little while Nicholls battled away gamely but had no luck with his finishing.
Attack:- Deeney gave as good as he got in the physical battle but, like his strike partner, Junior, he had few chances to shine in the scoring department.

If you haven’t been to a Reserve game, yet, try to do so. The last two matches have been first-rate entertainment.

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WFC_Rob
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:03 pm

Cheers Leamore.

If all goes to plan, I'll be at the New Meadow next week for the reserves away match at Shrewsbury.

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Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:03 pm

McDermot's limp can't have been that bad then Leamore?

Will be along to the afternoon reserve games when they start, along with Junior (My very own version).

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Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:05 pm

Leamore

You forgot to rate the referee. He was so poor I fully expect to see him reffing a first team game any week now.

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Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:05 pm

Leamore, is that you in the shades?

http://www.saddlers.premiumtv.co.uk/pag ... 02,00.html

Cor mek me mind up.

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Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:11 pm

tinned wrote:Leamore, is that you in the shades?

http://www.saddlers.premiumtv.co.uk/pag ... 02,00.html

Cor mek me mind up.


No, but I can see the resemblance!

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Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:15 pm

Ishy full back again? That seems hard to understand. Or could he ever play a first team match in that position?

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Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:15 pm

WFC_Rob wrote:Cheers Leamore.

If all goes to plan, I'll be at the New Meadow next week for the reserves away match at Shrewsbury.


I would check before you set out, Rob. It may not be at the New Meadow. When I phoned the Sloppies, yesterday, the girl told me it would be played at Nuneaton!!! I asked Roy Whalley, at the youth game v. Chasetown, last night, and he said that the Sloppies had not confirmed the venue, yet, but, like me, he was rather dubious about a Nuneaton venue. :)

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Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:26 pm

Leamore Saddler wrote:
WFC_Rob wrote:Cheers Leamore.

If all goes to plan, I'll be at the New Meadow next week for the reserves away match at Shrewsbury.


I would check before you set out, Rob. It may not be at the New Meadow. When I phoned the Sloppies, yesterday, the girl told me it would be played at Nuneaton!!! I asked Roy Whalley, at the youth game v. Chasetown, last night, and he said that the Sloppies had not confirmed the venue, yet, but, like me, he was rather dubious about a Nuneaton venue. :)

Seeing as they're cheapskates to an even greater degree than us, I'd be surprised if they play at someone else's ground. Cheers for the info though - I'll see what I can find out.
If it's not at the New Meadow though, I won't be able to make it. :?

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Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:19 am

Bernie wrote:Ishy full back again? That seems hard to understand. Or could he ever play a first team match in that position?


Ishy a yellow card again? That seems easy to understand. :evil:

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Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:15 am

Bernie wrote:Ishy full back again? That seems hard to understand. Or could he ever play a first team match in that position?


I'm also a bit confused by this , unless DD's idea is to improve Ishy's defensive work.

good report , cheers Leamore.

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Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:53 am


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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:05 pm

DAVEDEAN wrote:
Bernie wrote:Ishy full back again? That seems hard to understand. Or could he ever play a first team match in that position?


I'm also a bit confused by this , unless DD's idea is to improve Ishy's defensive work.

good report , cheers Leamore.


Good coaching tactic imho as it gives, particularly the younger players, a better understanding of roles other than their normal one. Needs to be done in moderation so that it's not at the expense of coaching them in their 'natural' role.

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Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:32 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Bernie wrote:Ishy full back again? That seems hard to understand. Or could he ever play a first team match in that position?


Ishy a yellow card again? That seems easy to understand. :evil:


KC, read Leamore's match report, totally undeserved :o

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:59 am

North Staffs Saddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Bernie wrote:Ishy full back again? That seems hard to understand. Or could he ever play a first team match in that position?


Ishy a yellow card again? That seems easy to understand. :evil:


KC, read Leamore's match report, totally undeserved :o


I read the report.
1) He refers to the booking as 'quite unjustified' for a 'nothing tackle' - that is a little less strident than suggesting it was 'totally undeserved'.
2) That's Leamore's opinion, it obviously wasn't the ref's, who incidentally didn't book any other Walsall player.
3) Whether deserved or not, he has another yellow card to his already woeful disciplinary record that saw him missing from our season opening.
4) Also worrying to read Ishmel, already on a yellow card, choosing to 'eyeball' another player in the 92nd minute after being fouled.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:37 am

King Crimson wrote:
North Staffs Saddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Bernie wrote:Ishy full back again? That seems hard to understand. Or could he ever play a first team match in that position?


Ishy a yellow card again? That seems easy to understand. :evil:


KC, read Leamore's match report, totally undeserved :o


I read the report.
1) He refers to the booking as 'quite unjustified' for a 'nothing tackle' - that is a little less strident than suggesting it was 'totally undeserved'.
2) That's Leamore's opinion, it obviously wasn't the ref's, who incidentally didn't book any other Walsall player.
3) Whether deserved or not, he has another yellow card to his already woeful disciplinary record that saw him missing from our season opening.
4) Also worrying to read Ishmel, already on a yellow card, choosing to 'eyeball' another player in the 92nd minute after being fouled.


Ultimately, whether or not Ishmel can learn to control his temper may be the deciding factor in whether or not his professional football career survives past the end of his current contract. He's got plenty of talent, but it's not a lot of use if he's not allowed on the pitch to use it.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:07 am

To be fair to Ishmel, his booking against Orient was ludicrous, and if Leamore said this one was undeserved that's good enough for me. there have been numerous occasions this season where he has been fouled and shown great temperement not to react - the Ishmel of old certainly would have done, and I don't mind our players "eyeballing" anyone. The ability to eyeball without following it up with a head-butt, a punch, or a shove any of which could have got him booked again and sent off might actually be a sign that when riled on this occasion he thought better of losing his temper and showed some self-control.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:31 am

Geordiesaddler wrote:To be fair to Ishmel, his booking against Orient was ludicrous

I disagree. Whether he made contact with the player or not, it looked like a lunge. I can fully understand why the ref booked him. Ishmel's bookings come as a result of his own naivety in the majority of cases.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:34 am

Plastic Hawk wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
North Staffs Saddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Bernie wrote:Ishy full back again? That seems hard to understand. Or could he ever play a first team match in that position?


Ishy a yellow card again? That seems easy to understand. :evil:


KC, read Leamore's match report, totally undeserved :o


I read the report.
1) He refers to the booking as 'quite unjustified' for a 'nothing tackle' - that is a little less strident than suggesting it was 'totally undeserved'.
2) That's Leamore's opinion, it obviously wasn't the ref's, who incidentally didn't book any other Walsall player.
3) Whether deserved or not, he has another yellow card to his already woeful disciplinary record that saw him missing from our season opening.
4) Also worrying to read Ishmel, already on a yellow card, choosing to 'eyeball' another player in the 92nd minute after being fouled.


Ultimately, whether or not Ishmel can learn to control his temper may be the deciding factor in whether or not his professional football career survives past the end of his current contract. He's got plenty of talent, but it's not a lot of use if he's not allowed on the pitch to use it.


This is what makes him a subject of discussion on here. It's where posters choose to attribute the 'weights' on the scales - his ability on one side and his temprament on the other. Those who believe his ability outweighs disciplinary issues see him as an asset, and worth perseverence. Those who believe his 'issues' are more of a burden than his talents are of benefit would rather us get rid. However, a new contract has put paid to that option, so we must all trust that Ish delivers.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:35 pm

WFC_Rob wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:To be fair to Ishmel, his booking against Orient was ludicrous

I disagree. Whether he made contact with the player or not, it looked like a lunge. I can fully understand why the ref booked him. Ishmel's bookings come as a result of his own naivety in the majority of cases.


Hmmm, so if somebody goes to commit hand-ball but doesn't make contact is it a foul?

To me the Orient thing just looked like a half-hearted tackle that didn't work, barely a foul, and if so a first offence and hardly one that warrented a straight yellow card.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:25 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:
WFC_Rob wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:To be fair to Ishmel, his booking against Orient was ludicrous

I disagree. Whether he made contact with the player or not, it looked like a lunge. I can fully understand why the ref booked him. Ishmel's bookings come as a result of his own naivety in the majority of cases.


Hmmm, so if somebody goes to commit hand-ball but doesn't make contact is it a foul?

To me the Orient thing just looked like a half-hearted tackle that didn't work, barely a foul, and if so a first offence and hardly one that warrented a straight yellow card.


I remember a young Jermaine Defoe being sent off at Bescot when he went to kick Ian Roper and missed. Can't comment on the Orient game, as I wasn't there, but 'intent' can be enough to warrant a card of either hue.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:58 pm

King Crimson wrote:
North Staffs Saddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Bernie wrote:Ishy full back again? That seems hard to understand. Or could he ever play a first team match in that position?


Ishy a yellow card again? That seems easy to understand. :evil:


KC, read Leamore's match report, totally undeserved :o


I read the report.
1) He refers to the booking as 'quite unjustified' for a 'nothing tackle' - that is a little less strident than suggesting it was 'totally undeserved'.2) That's Leamore's opinion, it obviously wasn't the ref's, who incidentally didn't book any other Walsall player.
3) Whether deserved or not, he has another yellow card to his already woeful disciplinary record that saw him missing from our season opening.
4) Also worrying to read Ishmel, already on a yellow card, choosing to 'eyeball' another player in the 92nd minute after being fouled.


I was at the game too. "Totally undeserved" were my words, 'and the eyeball incident' was absolutely nothing. It seems that some of you are not prepared to see the improvement in Ishy's attidude. Not perfect, but a big improvement on last season.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:41 pm

North Staffs Saddler wrote:I was at the game too. "Totally undeserved" were my words, 'and the eyeball incident' was absolutely nothing. It seems that some of you are not prepared to see the improvement in Ishy's attidude. Not perfect, but a big improvement on last season.


Really? I was at the Halesowen friendly when, had it been a competitive game with a referee who wasn't comatose, he'd have earned at least a yellow, and possibly a red.

I wasn't at the game, but you clearly can't really take issue with the points I raise. Namely, he received a yellow card that adds to his tally, he was the only Walsall player booked, he got into a confrontation at the end when he was fouled.

The question of whether he's worth the baggage is immaterial now he's been given a new contract, so we all need to hope for an improvement. Better than last season maybe. Good enough to be an acceptable standard for a professional footballer?

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:47 pm

King Crimson wrote:
North Staffs Saddler wrote:I was at the game too. "Totally undeserved" were my words, 'and the eyeball incident' was absolutely nothing. It seems that some of you are not prepared to see the improvement in Ishy's attidude. Not perfect, but a big improvement on last season.


Really? I was at the Halesowen friendly when, had it been a competitive game with a referee who wasn't comatose, he'd have earned at least a yellow, and possibly a red.

I wasn't at the game, but you clearly can't really take issue with the points I raise. Namely, he received a yellow card that adds to his tally, he was the only Walsall player booked, he got into a confrontation at the end when he was fouled.

The question of whether he's worth the baggage is immaterial now he's been given a new contract, so we all need to hope for an improvement. Better than last season maybe. Good enough to be an acceptable standard for a professional footballer?


Yes all very 'pc'

But!

Every fighting unit should have an unstable psychotic nutter. Look what it did for the Huns!

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:49 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:Yes all very 'pc'

But!

Every fighting unit should have an unstable psychotic nutter. Look what it did for the Huns!

:D
Yep, but the organised, disciplined Romans nailed them in the end. :idea:

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:51 pm

King Crimson wrote:
SaigonSaddler wrote:Yes all very 'pc'

But!

Every fighting unit should have an unstable psychotic nutter. Look what it did for the Huns!

:D
Yep, but the organised, disciplined Romans nailed them in the end. :idea:


Deterred maybe. But after Chalons sur Marne, Attila went back East to re-group and crush Rome. An unfortunate and sadly terminal nose bleed interrupted that plan.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:57 pm

King Crimson wrote:
North Staffs Saddler wrote:I was at the game too. "Totally undeserved" were my words, 'and the eyeball incident' was absolutely nothing. It seems that some of you are not prepared to see the improvement in Ishy's attidude. Not perfect, but a big improvement on last season.


Really? I was at the Halesowen friendly when, had it been a competitive game with a referee who wasn't comatose, he'd have earned at least a yellow, and possibly a red.

I wasn't at the game, but you clearly can't really take issue with the points I raise. Namely, he received a yellow card that adds to his tally, he was the only Walsall player booked, he got into a confrontation at the end when he was fouled.

The question of whether he's worth the baggage is immaterial now he's been given a new contract, so we all need to hope for an improvement. Better than last season maybe. Good enough to be an acceptable standard for a professional footballer?


There are some worse, Tommy Wright for one, and in any case as he is by far the most talented player on the books I think that we shall have to accept his shortcomings. I am sure that DD will continue to work on resolving some of his problems

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:29 pm

North Staffs Saddler wrote:
There are some worse, Tommy Wright for one, and in any case as he is by far the most talented player on the books I think that we shall have to accept his shortcomings. I am sure that DD will continue to work on resolving some of his problems


That's the root of the issue. I don't think he is that talented.

I honestly hope you're right and he comes good. He has pace to burn, and could be a very useful player, but I don't think he's very effective. Certainly not any more effective on the flanks than boo-boys' favourite Mark Wright.

As I say though, I hope you're right. Either way, he's here to stay.

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Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:30 pm

North Staffs Saddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
North Staffs Saddler wrote:I was at the game too. "Totally undeserved" were my words, 'and the eyeball incident' was absolutely nothing. It seems that some of you are not prepared to see the improvement in Ishy's attidude. Not perfect, but a big improvement on last season.


Really? I was at the Halesowen friendly when, had it been a competitive game with a referee who wasn't comatose, he'd have earned at least a yellow, and possibly a red.

I wasn't at the game, but you clearly can't really take issue with the points I raise. Namely, he received a yellow card that adds to his tally, he was the only Walsall player booked, he got into a confrontation at the end when he was fouled.

The question of whether he's worth the baggage is immaterial now he's been given a new contract, so we all need to hope for an improvement. Better than last season maybe. Good enough to be an acceptable standard for a professional footballer?


There are some worse, Tommy Wright for one, and in any case as he is by far the most talented player on the books I think that we shall have to accept his shortcomings. I am sure that DD will continue to work on resolving some of his problems


Really? I think people get carried away with Ishmel, maybe because of his bad-boy reputation (the "all great players have attitude" thing - obviously that doesn't mean all players with attitude are great). He's got a lot of talent, for sure. Certainly enough to make a career in the lower leagues. But I don't think we've seen enough to say for sure that he'll make a Championship regular and I'm sure he'll never play in the Premiership. There are other players on the books who have already achieved both of those. Surely they're more talented? (Whether or not they've still got "it" is irrelevent here as most of Ishmel's talent is still very much potential.)

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