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Millwall (A) League 1 Saturday 15/9/07.

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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Geordiesaddler
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:44 pm

I think there is far too much emphasis on singling out individuals. The midfield, as a unit worrked very well yesterday, and that is all that matters to me. Creatively the midfielders fashioned both and scored one of our goals, and I would be delighted to see the 4 that played yesterday following Roper's departure get the nod to start next week.

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Duke
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:02 pm

Agreed Geordie , I've never been a fan of Fox playing in midfield , but fair play to him he's done well , He appears to have a good understanding with Boertein , reading reports from yesterday the same can be said of Wrack and Sonko.

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:02 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:So what do we know?

1) Maybe things aren't as gloomy as some people would like to believe. Maybe this set of players aren't as bad as is being made out.

2) Youngsters getting an opportunity left right and centre. So much for DD not playing the kids.

3) Out of the three (that's only THREE) foreign signings this summer - one is scoring for the reserves, one is not very good but injured and one comes on to set up the winner today. Maybe STM shouldn't be told to F- off like he was a week or so ago on here.

4) Sheff rounds off a rather spectacular week by making his biggest faux pas of all!
*stifles a laugh while looks for those drugs that everyone was clearly on*


You baffle me you really do.

After 7 very poor performances people start [rightly] expressing worries, you [wrongly] tell them they're wrong, talking rubbish and everything is rosy.

One good result, and everything IS rosy? Do me a favour.

This is a good result, but it was against a struggling side with an under pressure manager. Good result, but it will be completely undone if we dont beat Oldham next week. Lets hope todays result isn't a flash in the pan. So far its 8 games, and 1 good result. To ensure we continue this feldgeling improvement we must improve our team, not pretend everything is rosy and ignore the problems.


Just read this tosh Phil, and sorry but I've got to rise to the bait before I depart to the pub to continue celebrating yesterday's superb victory.

1) After 7 very poor performances people start [rightly] expressing worries What 7 VERY POOR performances are you talking about, what utter nonsense. And no it didn't take that long for certain people to start expressing their "views" you just picked up where you left off last season which was virtual none-stop whinging about every aspect of the club.

2) This is a good result, but it was against a struggling side with an under pressure manager. So does that in some way devalue our achievement?? When we lose its because we're very poor, but when we win you have to dig up some churlish excuse, can't you just accept that we were better than the opposition and thoroughly deserved to win?

3)but it will be completely undone if we dont beat Oldham next week Will it really Phil? Sorry I must have missed this change in the rules, so let me get this right if we don't beat Oldham The Football League will deduct the 3 points we won yesterday???

Does this work both ways?????? Do we now get awarded the extra 2 points from the Vale game because we beat Millwall yesterday??

4) Can you please show me one post that seriously suggests that everything is rosey, or one where anyone with genuine concerns has been told to shut up "because everything's alright" because I don't remember any.

All the more reasoned and balanced posters have suggested is that this team deserves better support as they are giving their all whilst adjusting reasonabley well to a higher level of football. The support from the few that went yesterday was awesome, maybe it would be nice if more than 4,000 members of the Walsall public bother to turn up next week and show the same passion, belief, and vocal support that the few hundred did yesterday. We have some great young players who are learning their trade, and I believe a fantastic player in Sonko who is now finding his feet in English football, some patience and intelligence therefore wouldn't go amiss.


A Geordie special, delivered with both barrels! :wink:

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:09 pm

Bernie wrote:Midfielders who are quietly effective impress some but frustrate others. I am of the opinion that midfielders have to be more than quietly effective. It is not enough to be neat and tidy when the ball happens to come your way - if you are not having much influence on the match. We have had midfielders over the years (who have impressed the self-described "connoisseurs" of football) who have looked OK when making their interventions and tidying up lose play - but who have neither created many opportunities for our forwards, nor been a big obstacle to the oppostion.


Interesting point. I think you can only really tell the influence of players, whose work goes un-noticed a lot of the time, when they are missing from the team. I always thought, for example, that we missed Osborn when he was injured or otherwise out of the side. My impression is that we wouldn't miss Sonner in the same way, but to be honest I'm undecided on this one and could easily be swayed the other way.

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:18 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:We have absolutely no chance whatsoever of beating Millwall.


:D

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:29 pm

geordie rules

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Jolly Johnny
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:03 pm

latviancheese wrote:geordie rules


...include wearing a black and white striped shirt and drinking brown ale!!! :wink:

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King Crimson
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:09 pm

Jolly Johnny wrote:
latviancheese wrote:geordie rules


...include wearing a black and white striped shirt and drinking brown ale!!! :wink:


...and coats are for girls.

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Geordiesaddler
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:42 pm

King Crimson wrote:
Jolly Johnny wrote:
latviancheese wrote:geordie rules


...include wearing a black and white striped shirt and drinking brown ale!!! :wink:


...and coats are for girls.


Too right, but not exactly what I was thinking yesterday when after running and boarding the train to Sarf Bermondsey the realisation dawned that I had forgotton to zip mine up, revealing a lovely Walsall top to the 400 Millwall scuzzers that were squeezed onto the train.

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King Crimson
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:51 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
Jolly Johnny wrote:
latviancheese wrote:geordie rules


...include wearing a black and white striped shirt and drinking brown ale!!! :wink:


...and coats are for girls.


Too right, but not exactly what I was thinking yesterday when after running and boarding the train to Sarf Bermondsey the realisation dawned that I had forgotton to zip mine up, revealing a lovely Walsall top to the 400 Millwall scuzzers that were squeezed onto the train.


Oops! :shock:

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WarsawPact
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:14 pm

latviancheese wrote:I can see why people say Sonner is whack, he is powderpuff and frustrating.

But thats not the kindof player he is, i dont hear anyone complainin when Fabregay doesnt tackle :wink: He's a passer of the ball, something creative.

I even heard WM say he headed the ball yesterday :shock: is this true?


Yes, the Club Hairdresser had to come on and give him 5 minutes of intensive treatment

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:30 pm

King Crimson wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:We have absolutely no chance whatsoever of beating Millwall.


:D


Get a life. :roll:

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SaigonSaddler
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:22 pm

South Yorkshire Simon wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:We have absolutely no chance whatsoever of beating Millwall.


:D


Get a life. :roll:


:D

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:28 pm

A superb win at Millwall yesterday. I thought we might have gone down there and nicked something but to come back with all 3 points is a very good.

Having seen the goals on the TV it seems that Sonko had a part to play in both goals, which was good to see. I thought Fox took his goal really well and have been fairly impressed with him this season although his distribution lets him down a bit at times but this is something he can improve on.

Very pleased to see Deeney score his first proffessional goal. Hopefully this will be the first of many in what promises to be a long career for him. From what ive seen of him so far I think this lad has got a big future in the game. Im no expert but it seems that hes got that ability to be in the right place at the right time and the goal yesterday will give him alot of confidence which is what all strikers need.

So we've got our first win of the season and it seems to me that the only way is up now! Im not going to get carried away with the win and still think we need a central midfielder, but this should take a lot of pressure off the lads now and a good win against Oldham on Saturday (with a few kicks for Lee Hughes and Michael Ricketts!) and i'll be much more positive about the season ahead.

Barmy Army!

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Sadders
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:53 pm

Worst performance of the season yesterday, Ince generally good but still can't kick, i was generally impressed with all of the defence looked very good and very tidy, especially dann and ropes. Boertien was also excellent. Sonner needs replacing with dobbo, Sonko wasnt as excellent as everyone is making out, wrack was anonymous except 1 run very late in the game. Hall is the biggest waste of space in history,possible as poor as carnerio, Butler was our best player firsst half and ran his balls of yet again, FOX was i thought yet again, reasonable quiet but when was on the ball was excellent.

Poor performance ,rather like last year, but at the end of the day, i'd rather win playing poorly, then play wonderful football and find ourselves in back in the football league basement YET again.

Big confidence bost, and a clinical away performance, but this will only matter if we follow up next week.

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:57 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:We'll win this, I'm sure of it as I can't go. We often win the league matches I can't attend and hope the trend won't change now.


Didn't think the trend was going to alter. I was confident of a win all week. And no, I won't miss more matches so we can win. :D

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:07 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:We'll win this, I'm sure of it as I can't go. We often win the league matches I can't attend and hope the trend won't change now.


Didn't think the trend was going to alter. I was confident of a win all week. And no, I won't miss more matches so we can win. :D


Could be a good reason for not leaving the pub ? :wink:

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:24 pm

Sadders wrote:Hall is the biggest waste of space in history, possibly as poor as Carneiro


Make your mind up!

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:40 pm

Kiansmom wrote:Just got in, was one of those games just knew we were going to win.We looked the better side, Foxy's goal is a must see!! He's taken a lot of stick on here but think he will shut the doubters up.Still think Hall is too slow and Sonner is a waste of a Walsall shirt!

Played so much better, maybe this team has finally gelled?

I don't think our friend in the pink shirt will wear that again :lol:


Be careful what you say about Sonner mate .... youre likely to get a tirade of abuse ...... some from people who havent seen him as much as we have .... ie every game he has played ! :lol:

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tinned
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:44 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:We'll win this, I'm sure of it as I can't go. We often win the league matches I can't attend and hope the trend won't change now.


Didn't think the trend was going to alter. I was confident of a win all week. And no, I won't miss more matches so we can win. :D


Call yourself a true fan? :roll:

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PT
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:45 pm

DAVEDEAN wrote:Agreed Geordie , I've never been a fan of Fox playing in midfield , but fair play to him he's done well , He appears to have a good understanding with Boertein , reading reports from yesterday the same can be said of Wrack and Sonko.


There was some concern that we wouldn't be able to replicate the goal return Keates (who's getting splinters at Posh at present) managed last year. I make it that he got 9 excluding pens, 13 including. If Fox can keep drifting in from wide he could well manage a similar haul.

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:47 pm

latviancheese wrote:I can see why people say Sonner is whack, he is powderpuff and frustrating.

But thats not the kindof player he is, i dont hear anyone complainin when Fabregay doesnt tackle :wink: He's a passer of the ball, something creative.

I even heard WM say he headed the ball yesterday :shock: is this true?


Agreeing with me now are we Latvian Cheese ?.. wasnt so long ago you told me to put my handbag away for saying he wasnt much good.... !!

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Geordiesaddler
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:52 pm

Sadders wrote:Worst performance of the season yesterday, Ince generally good but still can't kick, i was generally impressed with all of the defence looked very good and very tidy, especially dann and ropes. Boertien was also excellent. Sonner needs replacing with dobbo, Sonko wasnt as excellent as everyone is making out, wrack was anonymous except 1 run very late in the game. Hall is the biggest waste of space in history,possible as poor as carnerio, Butler was our best player firsst half and ran his balls of yet again, FOX was i thought yet again, reasonable quiet but when was on the ball was excellent.

Poor performance ,rather like last year, but at the end of the day, i'd rather win playing poorly, then play wonderful football and find ourselves in back in the football league basement YET again.

Big confidence bost, and a clinical away performance, but this will only matter if we follow up next week.


Really?? I'm frankly amazed anyone could call that our worst performance, bearing in mind the display at Bournemouth in the cup when we were dead and buried after 8 minutes, bearing in mind the self-destruction against Swansea, and the performance at Gillingham when we contrived to lose to just about the worst team we are likely to play all season. But hey its all about opinions, mine is that that it was worth the admission alone to see Danny Fox's overhead kick.

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:59 pm

I actually thought that we played really well yesterday, after the first 20 mins i think we took control of the game and deservedly went on to win it, but hey, my opinion appears to count for diddly squat where some folk on here are concerned, ive since found out that these people who , have shall we say, challenged my opinions in the past .... dont actually go to all the games which i found highly amusing !

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Geordiesaddler
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:02 pm

PT wrote:
DAVEDEAN wrote:Agreed Geordie , I've never been a fan of Fox playing in midfield , but fair play to him he's done well , He appears to have a good understanding with Boertein , reading reports from yesterday the same can be said of Wrack and Sonko.


There was some concern that we wouldn't be able to replicate the goal return Keates (who's getting splinters at Posh at present) managed last year. I make it that he got 9 excluding pens, 13 including. If Fox can keep drifting in from wide he could well manage a similar haul.


The 3 year deal must seem more like a prison sentance, trailing all the way down to that godforsaken place to train so he can warm the bench for a mid-table League 2 team. Didn't have the balls to wait and see what he got offered at Walsall and then stay and fight for his place. I don't care what anyone says about his family and money etc. he'll be spending 5 hours a day commuting, that's 5 hours a day less with his young family, it won't be worth it believe me because as a pro footballer of some 10 years standing he won't exactly be on the bread-line and in a few years time when he's finished he will never get those hours with his kids back, or the last few years of his football career that he will have wasted.

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:16 pm

Zola Saddler wrote:I actually thought that we played really well yesterday, after the first 20 mins i think we took control of the game and deservedly went on to win it, but hey, my opinion appears to count for diddly squat where some folk on here are concerned, ive since found out that these people who , have shall we say, challenged my opinions in the past .... dont actually go to all the games which i found highly amusing !


To be fair, I have come back from some away games, and people who haven't been have actually known more about the game than me, like who scored etc :D

I'm not challenging your opinions though I know better, although as I said earlier, the two games I have seen, Sonner was fine

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:32 pm

Sadders wrote:Sonner needs replacing with dobbo

Sorry but other than Dobson being better in the air, how can you justify that?

I'm with Blazing on this one. I haven't been to every game so people will take this with a pinch of salt, but I've yet to see Sonner have a bad game. What is it about these completely under-appreciated players? First it was Osborn, then it was Dobson, now it's Sonner. :?

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:37 pm

WFC_Rob wrote:
Sadders wrote:Sonner needs replacing with dobbo

Sorry but other than Dobson being better in the air, how can you justify that?

I'm with Blazing on this one. I haven't been to every game so people will take this with a pinch of salt, but I've yet to see Sonner have a bad game. What is it about these completely under-appreciated players? First it was Osborn, then it was Dobson, now it's Sonner. :?


Hold up ! I am not going as far as Osborn :shock: :D

He had a good last season, but I never liked him, his passing was woeful, when people tried to tell me it was good, I lost count of the goals we conceeded from a misplaced pass by him. Of course it was all at a higher level

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WFC_Rob
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:43 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:
WFC_Rob wrote:
Sadders wrote:Sonner needs replacing with dobbo

Sorry but other than Dobson being better in the air, how can you justify that?

I'm with Blazing on this one. I haven't been to every game so people will take this with a pinch of salt, but I've yet to see Sonner have a bad game. What is it about these completely under-appreciated players? First it was Osborn, then it was Dobson, now it's Sonner. :?


Hold up ! I am not going as far as Osborn :shock: :D

He had a good last season, but I never liked him, his passing was woeful, when people tried to tell me it was good, I lost count of the goals we conceeded from a misplaced pass by him. Of course it was all at a higher level

Oh God, I've really blown this one. Mentioning Osborn was a big mistake. :lol:

Seriously though, it's these sorts of players who get all the stick because they rarely get assists or goals and do not do the spectacular like some. What many fail to pick up on is that as a team, we're better off with them than without.

I've been thinking about Fox's improvement today and base it largely on what he has inside of him. Last year he'd often send the ball long down the line because he had nothing inside of him. This year he has Sonner who'll never hide. Him being able to give Sonner the ball means he doesn't have to rely on the long ball down the line for Butler to chase.
People have to look beyond the fact that a player has given the ball away and look at the reasons why.

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:12 pm

Sorry I'm a bit late posting my views from yesterday. I was there, but have only just got home as I've spent my weekend in London planning mine and the gf's wedding with the to be in-laws. :D I haven't yet read the rest of the thread.

I didn't think we played to well in the first half. Ince had to make a couple of smart stops in the first 20 minutes and in all honesty they looked more likely to score. Roper made one storming tackle just before coming off, but after the first 20 we started to look more solid. Neither side particularly looked like scoring and the game had 0-0 written all over it. Then Fox turned up. He doesn't score simple goals does he? Now our clear top scorer, not bad for a player who never crosses the halfway line. Hall came off, Ishy came on, and we went 5 in midfield I thought we looked a lot more solid, we defended too deep but we controlled midfield, Wrack playing a lot better in the centre. Personally I think our two wingers that started yesterday would make potentially our strongest central midfield partnership. At this point the game did look over as Millwall looked to have no real idea how to break us down. So, inevitably, they equalised. Ishy came off, Deeney came on. At this point my gf said "Deeney will get the winner now." Couldn't see it happening myself. Bang! 2-1, Deeney! Get in there!

I find it quite surprising that after how well we played last week when we played quite openly and created a lot of chances we failed to score, compared to yesterday when we scored twice with our only two worthwhile shots.

Ince - Was like a big hoover, everytime the ball went in the box he claimed it, MOTM.
Weston - Personally I think he's improving with every game. Him and Boertein are probably the best pair of fullbacks I can remember us having (this is my 10th season following the Saddlers).
Boertein - Him and Fox do compliment each other well on the left, a bit like how Kris Taylor did last year, only better.
Roper - Would have been MOTM had he not got injured so early. Made one top tackle as mentioned above and got injured blocking a shot. Surely nobody can still think he's past his best?
Dann - Solid and reliable. DD playing him in the reserves against Wolves instead of away at Bournemouth seems to have been a masterstroke. He seems to have his confidence back and now seems to realise he is good enough to play at this level.
Fox - Personally I think he's benefitting from having Ishy breathing down his neck and its bringing out the best in him. Tucked in well when we went 5 across the middle and gave us a balanced look. Would like to see him given a try in the centre.
Gerrard - For the first half he looked what he was, a centre half playing in midfield. Played better at centre back. It's unfortunate for him that DD prefers Roper because no matter how well Gerrard plays he always seems to have to give his place in defence up.
Sonner - I'm struggling to take to this guy. His set pieces never look threatening and he spends more time on his backside than he does on his feet. When we went 5 across the middle he looked the weak link.
Wrack - Was quiet first half, was the pick of the midfield when we went to a 5. Brought the ball out well and sent Sonko away a few times. Think central midfield is now his best position.
Butler - Worked hard but never looked like scoring. This seems to be becoming a worrying trend again. I seriously think we need to start looking for a replacement for him.
Hall - Not a striker. Never has been, never will be. Unfortunately for him he's not a winger anymore either. Battles hard but never looks like scoring or creating anything.

Subs

Sonko - Plays well going forward, a couple of times he seems to try and do to much. Needs to work on his defensive side to his game. Maybe DD will play him right back in the reserves :wink:
Ishy - Not sure what anyone else has said about him, but the last two games he's looked like he needs a good kick up the arse. When Fox is playing well it's as though he thinks "Well I wont start next week anyway" and therefore loses interest. Maybe this is why he was brought off (was he injured?)
Deeney - What a cameo. Touched the ball once and scored with it. Really pleased for him and will do his confidence the world of good.

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