Port Vale (H) League One - Saturday 8th September, 1pm KO

[Stu]

All hail the doom mongers- take credit for all the good signings and carry on slating the bad ones They were ALL responsible for Harper and co coming to save our promotion campaign, so easy to say this now the games have been played and we have one the league that your concern was "TO STAY TOP OF THE LEAGUE" I would suggest that DD had already identified the problem as he had been saying for many weeks before the signings came in.

thats why the TRUE realists werent as happy to spout the tosh thats often been displayed by some

Gash, you might as well have typed "I can't think of an argument back so I'll just be sarcastic instead". Could you find the line where I said the so called doom mongers take credit for good signings or saw the need to strengthen before Money? Or does it suit your argument more to make that up yourself and be sarcastic? Or do you never comment on what a person/team could do better before they've done it? Do you never comment on what the Govt could do better for example?

I assume you didn't think the team needed some width or pace last season? I assume you don't think we need a decent striker now?

What I find most amusing is that the so called "happy clappers" and "doom mongers" often think very similar but word it very differently. Yet we still have these ridiculous tags associated to folk.

Things can always be improved, things can always be worse. I don't see why folk should be criticised for pointing out what needs to be done, of course DD see's it and probably knows well in advance, I'd bloody well expect him to, what with him being a football manager. I'd be bloody worried if he didn't see them. Its not negative, its stating an opinion.

[womblesaddler]

Last season some people saw the deficiencies in our team and trusted DD to get it right. Others saw the deficiencies and moaned to their hearts' content. DD got it right, despite the doom-mongers that were very vocal throughout January and February.

This season some people see the deficiencies and still trust DD to get it right. Others see the deficiencies and still moan to their hearts' content.

It's easy to support a team that's flying and well clear at the top of the league (or so I thought until last season). It's not so easy to get behind the team when they struggle. I think Richard Money has earned our trust, I think the way he turned us around from the Merson debacle and then brought things together after our sticky patch in Jan/Feb shows he knows what he's doing. I don't think that's blind loyalty, I don't think its sticking your neck in the sand. I think it's being supportive. And as a Walsall supporter, that's what I do.

RS, in all fairness, all the "doom mongers" that you referred to said we needed was pace and width. DD only turned things around when he brought in the type of players your afore-mentioned "doom mongers" said we needed.

It is very easy to support a team when they're top, its even harder to then stick your neck above the parapet with that team and say "Hang on, we're top, but we want to stay there and we need to change something to make sure we do." I'd say that takes a bit of balls and courage personally.

The "doom mongers" you refer to are now pointing out the need for a striker and have been since before the season kicked off. What are the odds on DD signing a striker? Quite high I'd hope based on the failure to take chances so far.

So are they really doom mongers or just realists? Quite clearly the latter in my view.

All hail the doom mongers- take credit for all the good signings and carry on slating the bad ones They were ALL responsible for Harper and co coming to save our promotion campaign, so easy to say this now the games have been played and we have one the league that your concern was "TO STAY TOP OF THE LEAGUE" I would suggest that DD had already identified the problem as he had been saying for many weeks before the signings came in.

thats why the TRUE realists werent as happy to spout the tosh thats often been displayed by some

Surely nobody on here would try to claim any "credit" for anything that happens with regard to signings and performance. Of course the players and management at the club are responsible for that. But the fact that we can't really influence what goes on at the club doesn't mean that we can't express our opinion if we think things need to be changed around - which they do now.

For what it's worth, I was a "happy clapper" last season - I thought some of the criticism on here was well over the top. Things won't always be perfect at any club, but people were getting things out of perspective and small problems were blown up into crises while the big picture (the fact that from about Christmas onwards we never looked like missing out on promotion) was ignored. This season it's different. The big picture is that we're bottom (ignoring Leeds) and don't look like winning a game - or even scoring - anytime soon. Those who are picking out crumbs of comfort to cling to ("we created chances", "a clean sheet") are as guilty of missing the big picture as the "doom mongers" were last season.

Anyway, what's the point of having a discussion if everyone has to tow the party line?

at last a sensible post which highlights the true picture!! evryone SEEMS to be so far right or left its like a political debate at times.
Top Post!!

[tinned]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

[Barren Flak]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

Did anyone else just hear anything? :wink:

[Plastic Hawk]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

To be fair, they have. Stu must be into double figures for the number of times he's told him and a few others have done too (myself included). It's just that he always responds with something along the lines of "it's my genuine belief and I stand by it". Where is the discussion supposed to go from there? Since people like you are actually prepared to put down some reasons to justify your opinions (and there are more of you) it's easier to discuss them. That means that there's more posts responding to what you say and, I suppose, appears to be more criticism of your opinion.

[tinned]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

Did anyone else just hear anything? :wink:

:D

You keep your fingers in your ears and chant "La la la, I can't hear you" for as long as you can :wink:

[womblesaddler]

All hail the doom mongers- take credit for all the good signings and carry on slating the bad ones They were ALL responsible for Harper and co coming to save our promotion campaign, so easy to say this now the games have been played and we have one the league that your concern was "TO STAY TOP OF THE LEAGUE" I would suggest that DD had already identified the problem as he had been saying for many weeks before the signings came in.

thats why the TRUE realists werent as happy to spout the tosh thats often been displayed by some

Gash, you might as well have typed "I can't think of an argument back so I'll just be sarcastic instead". Could you find the line where I said the so called doom mongers take credit for good signings or saw the need to strengthen before Money? Or does it suit your argument more to make that up yourself and be sarcastic? Or do you never comment on what a person/team could do better before they've done it? Do you never comment on what the Govt could do better for example?

I assume you didn't think the team needed some width or pace last season? I assume you don't think we need a decent striker now?

What I find most amusing is that the so called "happy clappers" and "doom mongers" often think very similar but word it very differently. Yet we still have these ridiculous tags associated to folk.

Things can always be improved, things can always be worse. I don't see why folk should be criticised for pointing out what needs to be done, of course DD see's it and probably knows well in advance, I'd bloody well expect him to, what with him being a football manager. I'd be bloody worried if he didn't see them. Its not negative, its stating an opinion.

Just like most of your posts Stu, you use your admitedly good communication skills to try and ridicule the other poster!!

and if people had the same views then why would we have this debate?? i have seen many times your criticism of other posters as they have different views, such as Baz for his promotion or play off views and quite simply find it annoying

one of the reasons i SUPPORT my club is because each season i have hopes like any other, dreams of a good cup run or causing an upset, and another story to tell from another great away day, so for someonle like you, to try and tell me that its not going to happen and believe what they are saying as my view is wrong will just be taking my season away from me. yes i have views and of course i have thoughts and ideas, but i dont use bully boy tactics to try and influence others. maybe something you should take note of :wink:

or do u want me again to say "cant think of anything else?" i have confidence in DD to put things right and yes the problems are highlighted so whats the point in keep going over the issue, he as a manager as stated he knows the areas he wants to improve, so let him do it, and when he does you can find summat else to moan about or want improving, there was no toilet roll in the toilets on sturday for starters

[tinned]

I think some people have a problem distinguishing between hope and expect. Like every other Walsall fan I hope sincerely we will consolidate this season, or even better, push for the play off's. But that is totally different to what I expect from what I've seen so far.

Is it so wrong to post what you expect (just because it's not overly positive)? May as well close down the site and all bugger of if so.

[Stu]

Womble, Its not criticism at all, its me asking you to state facts to back up an argument, as you didn't at all. As I do to Baz, whose response to us making the play offs is like the 8 year old kid who says "Just coz we will". Its not having a go, I just ask to see why he thinks that. Further more, Baz probably knows I'm just winding him up, hence my "Arsenal will get relegated because I think so" comment last week. You get offended for him if you want though, I don't mind.

Like you, I dream of cup runs. Where did I say that won't happen? In fact, where did I say we'll struggle this season at all. If you read posts properly, instead of just assume what I say, then you'd know full well that I've not once said we'll get relegated this season, quite the opposite. I still stick to my pre-season prediction of 14th - 20th, being closer to the higher end if we can get in the couple of players that have been clearly missing since before the season kicked off and closer to the bottom if we stick as we are. Yet you seem to have me down for a whinger who thinks we're getting relegated, quite the opposite. What I'm actually doing is sticking up for those who get a constant stream of stick because they dare to stick their head above the parapet and state an opinion on what they think the problem is. What's the difference between Baz saying we'll make the Play Offs and Tinned saying we'll get relegated? The latter gets slated for being negative and his loyalty questioned, whilst nothing is made of the former? Or are we all meant to clap happily and insist we'll make the Play Offs after failure to win in 7 games and failure to score in 4 of them?

I've been quite pleased with the season so far to be honest, we've played okay, not great, but not awful. We've proved we can compete when it comes to playing football, nobody has really outplayed us in the league and with a dececnt striker we'd have got at least a point from every league match we've played.

I too have confidence in DD to get it right, never have I said otherwise. However there is nothing wrong with stating on here what individual posters believe is needed, whether he knows or doesn't know I don't really care, this board is here for discussion and thats what we're having. What I can't stand is the fingers in the ear argument with no logical reasoning to an argument, of which your initial post was if you look back and read it honestly.

As for bully boy tactics, its called having an opinion and putting it across. Next thing you'll be saying is its all part of a mass clique designed to ensure UTS rule the world.

[Magic Man Fan]

May as well close down the site and all oh blow! of if so.

Good idea.

[womblesaddler]

Womble, Its not criticism at all, its me asking you to state facts to back up an argument, as you didn't at all. As I do to Baz, whose response to us making the play offs is like the 8 year old kid who says "Just coz we will". Its not having a go, I just ask to see why he thinks that. Further more, Baz probably knows I'm just winding him up, hence my "Arsenal will get relegated because I think so" comment last week. You get offended for him if you want though, I don't mind.

Like you, I dream of cup runs. Where did I say that won't happen? In fact, where did I say we'll struggle this season at all. If you read posts properly, instead of just assume what I say, then you'd know full well that I've not once said we'll get relegated this season, quite the opposite. I still stick to my pre-season prediction of 14th - 20th, being closer to the higher end if we can get in the couple of players that have been clearly missing since before the season kicked off and closer to the bottom if we stick as we are. Yet you seem to have me down for a whinger who thinks we're getting relegated, quite the opposite. What I'm actually doing is sticking up for those who get a constant stream of stick because they dare to stick their head above the parapet and state an opinion on what they think the problem is. What's the difference between Baz saying we'll make the Play Offs and Tinned saying we'll get relegated? The latter gets slated for being negative and his loyalty questioned, whilst nothing is made of the former? Or are we all meant to clap happily and insist we'll make the Play Offs after failure to win in 7 games and failure to score in 4 of them?

I've been quite pleased with the season so far to be honest, we've played okay, not great, but not awful. We've proved we can compete when it comes to playing football, nobody has really outplayed us in the league and with a dececnt striker we'd have got at least a point from every league match we've played.

I too have confidence in DD to get it right, never have I said otherwise. However there is nothing wrong with stating on here what individual posters believe is needed, whether he knows or doesn't know I don't really care, this board is here for discussion and thats what we're having. What I can't stand is the fingers in the ear argument with no logical reasoning to an argument, of which your initial post was if you look back and read it honestly.

As for bully boy tactics, its called having an opinion and putting it across. Next thing you'll be saying is its all part of a mass clique designed to ensure UTS rule the world.

:D :D nothing like putting words into mouths is there, and this does demonstrate my initial opinion that you want to ridicule the poster who you are having a discussion with, opinions are just that, a fact is something that can and should be backed up, opnion is something i have rightly or wrongly so taking note of your argument of reading back what i have written i still stand by those words. i in no way wish this to be a personall argument but a clash of views. if what you say about backing up those who are ridiculed for their opinions is true, then fantastic, we would be no where without those opinions as a message board.
the fingers in the ears comment was a little childish as u will see that my OPINION was that DD had already identified the issue of bringing players in, and thats what happened, but you made it sound that the doom and gloom merchants were crying for this all along, when infact everyone was saying the same thing but in a different manner, which you promptly corrected yourself in the next post.

Bottom line is we all want whats best for WFC and have different views of what that is

[Plastic Hawk]

opinions are just that, a fact is something that can and should be backed up, opnion is something i have rightly or wrongly so taking note of your argument of reading back what i have written i still stand by those words. i in no way wish this to be a personall argument but a clash of views. if what you say about backing up those who are ridiculed for their opinions is true, then fantastic, we would be no where without those opinions as a message board.
the fingers in the ears comment was a little childish as u will see that my OPINION was that DD had already identified the issue of bringing players in, and thats what happened, but you made it sound that the doom and gloom merchants were crying for this all along, when infact everyone was saying the same thing but in a different manner, which you promptly corrected yourself in the next post.

:?: :?: :?:

A fact is something that cannot be (reasonably) disputed - e.g. the sky is blue, Dean Keates was Walsall's top scorer last season, Steve McClaren is manager of England, etc. It doesn't need to be backed up (except possibly by reference to the source you got it from.

An opinion is a conclusion that someone draws from examining the facts. It absolutely needs to be backed up by an explanation of the reasoning that leads to it if it is to convince others (and if that's not the point of expressing your opinion then why bother?).

[Cueball]

Womble, Its not criticism at all, its me asking you to state facts to back up an argument, as you didn't at all. As I do to Baz, whose response to us making the play offs is like the 8 year old kid who says "Just coz we will". Its not having a go, I just ask to see why he thinks that. Further more, Baz probably knows I'm just winding him up, hence my "Arsenal will get relegated because I think so" comment last week. You get offended for him if you want though, I don't mind.

Like you, I dream of cup runs. Where did I say that won't happen? In fact, where did I say we'll struggle this season at all. If you read posts properly, instead of just assume what I say, then you'd know full well that I've not once said we'll get relegated this season, quite the opposite. I still stick to my pre-season prediction of 14th - 20th, being closer to the higher end if we can get in the couple of players that have been clearly missing since before the season kicked off and closer to the bottom if we stick as we are. Yet you seem to have me down for a whinger who thinks we're getting relegated, quite the opposite. What I'm actually doing is sticking up for those who get a constant stream of stick because they dare to stick their head above the parapet and state an opinion on what they think the problem is. What's the difference between Baz saying we'll make the Play Offs and Tinned saying we'll get relegated? The latter gets slated for being negative and his loyalty questioned, whilst nothing is made of the former? Or are we all meant to clap happily and insist we'll make the Play Offs after failure to win in 7 games and failure to score in 4 of them?

I've been quite pleased with the season so far to be honest, we've played okay, not great, but not awful. We've proved we can compete when it comes to playing football, nobody has really outplayed us in the league and with a dececnt striker we'd have got at least a point from every league match we've played.

I too have confidence in DD to get it right, never have I said otherwise. However there is nothing wrong with stating on here what individual posters believe is needed, whether he knows or doesn't know I don't really care, this board is here for discussion and thats what we're having. What I can't stand is the fingers in the ear argument with no logical reasoning to an argument, of which your initial post was if you look back and read it honestly.

As for bully boy tactics, its called having an opinion and putting it across. Next thing you'll be saying is its all part of a mass clique designed to ensure UTS rule the world.

:D :D nothing like putting words into mouths is there, and this does demonstrate my initial opinion that you want to ridicule the poster who you are having a discussion with, opinions are just that, a fact is something that can and should be backed up, opnion is something i have rightly or wrongly so taking note of your argument of reading back what i have written i still stand by those words. i in no way wish this to be a personall argument but a clash of views. if what you say about backing up those who are ridiculed for their opinions is true, then fantastic, we would be no where without those opinions as a message board.
the fingers in the ears comment was a little childish as u will see that my OPINION was that DD had already identified the issue of bringing players in, and thats what happened, but you made it sound that the doom and gloom merchants were crying for this all along, when infact everyone was saying the same thing but in a different manner, which you promptly corrected yourself in the next post.

Bottom line is we all want whats best for WFC and have different views of what that is

You're an idiot. It's just my opinion...

[Stu]

:D :D nothing like putting words into mouths is there, and this does demonstrate my initial opinion that you want to ridicule the poster who you are having a discussion with, opinions are just that, a fact is something that can and should be backed up, opnion is something i have rightly or wrongly so taking note of your argument of reading back what i have written i still stand by those words. i in no way wish this to be a personall argument but a clash of views. if what you say about backing up those who are ridiculed for their opinions is true, then fantastic, we would be no where without those opinions as a message board.
the fingers in the ears comment was a little childish as u will see that my OPINION was that DD had already identified the issue of bringing players in, and thats what happened, but you made it sound that the doom and gloom merchants were crying for this all along, when infact everyone was saying the same thing but in a different manner, which you promptly corrected yourself in the next post.

Bottom line is we all want whats best for WFC and have different views of what that is

Apologies, that last line was nothing but tongue in cheek. I was not intending to put words into your mouth or make you think otherwise, it was a joke at the often referred to 'clique' when someone defends someone else... Maybe I should have put a smiley at the end.

I defended the so called doom mongers because as you say, they said very similar to everyone else in a different way. I'm fed up of folk the term "doom and gloom brigade", "doom mongers" constatly being attached to anyone who has a view that things could be better. That's what irks me and thats what irked me about your initial post. As I say, go back and read your first post and see how you completely mis-read what I said and put words in my mouth, and responded with a sarcastic post, hence my sarcastic response. Tit for tat, now thats childish I admit... :wink: (And I remembered to post a smiley)

[Registered Saddler]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

Obviously some opinions are more valid than others. I could say that we were terrible last season and deserved to lose every match we played. It would be an opinion, but not one that's up to much.

It is my view that people who already think we're doomed to a season-long battle against relegation are wrong. I base it on what I've seen with my own eyes, what other fans have said, what opposition fans have said, the comments of opposition managers, my experience of watching Walsall and my faith in Richard Money to pull us around. I believe we are not far away from turning defeats into draws and draws into wins, particularly if we cut out the individual errors that have blighted all our matches so far.

We will only see who is right in the fulness of time. If our form improves soon and we end the season in midtable then there won't be any 'I told you so-s' from me. But I will be satisfied that whenever Walsall hit a sticky patch in the future, having a bit of patience and trust is a better approach than hitting the panic button.

[Magic Man Fan]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

Obviously some opinions are more valid than others. I could say that we were terrible last season and deserved to lose every match we played. It would be an opinion, but not one that's up to much.

It is my view that people who already think we're doomed to a season-long battle against relegation are wrong. I base it on what I've seen with my own eyes, what other fans have said, what opposition fans have said, the comments of opposition managers, my experience of watching Walsall and my faith in Richard Money to pull us around. I believe we are not far away from turning defeats into draws and draws into wins, particularly if we cut out the individual errors that have blighted all our matches so far.

We will only see who is right in the fulness of time. If our form improves soon and we end the season in midtable then there won't be any 'I told you so-s' from me. But I will be satisfied that whenever Walsall hit a sticky patch in the future, having a bit of patience and trust is a better approach than hitting the panic button.

Fully agree. I refuse to promise not to mention any "I told you so's" though, as I have a bet or two depending on it. :P

[Stu]

Very true RS, but those folk are also saying that if we can add a striker we won't be resigned to a season long battle... It seems that that opinions once formed have to be set in stone, that they can't change based on changing scenarios. So will they be proved wrong in the fullness of time or right?

My view is that this group of players will struggle, I think they'll stop up, but it'll get hairy at times. Purely because we lack strength in depth, as reflected by our subs bench on Saturday and I'm not sure we have goals in the team.

However add me a striker, centre midfielder and centre half in that order, and I could see us challenging for a mid-table spot around 12th - 15th quite comfortably. Like you, I trust DD to get that right and for things to turn around as we've certainly competed in the games we've played, just lacked a little something in both penalty boxes.

There seem's to be this stake in the ground mentality on UTS at the moment, where you have to say which side of the fence your on, without being able to take into account a changing situation.

[WFCNIL]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

Obviously some opinions are more valid than others. I could say that we were terrible last season and deserved to lose every match we played. It would be an opinion, but not one that's up to much.

It is my view that people who already think we're doomed to a season-long battle against relegation are wrong. I base it on what I've seen with my own eyes, what other fans have said, what opposition fans have said, the comments of opposition managers, my experience of watching Walsall and my faith in Richard Money to pull us around. I believe we are not far away from turning defeats into draws and draws into wins, particularly if we cut out the individual errors that have blighted all our matches so far.

We will only see who is right in the fulness of time. If our form improves soon and we end the season in midtable then there won't be any 'I told you so-s' from me. But I will be satisfied that whenever Walsall hit a sticky patch in the future, having a bit of patience and trust is a better approach than hitting the panic button.

Good measured response.

We can only hope DD reads the comments on this board and changes tack as he did towards the end of last season
:P :wink:

[Stu]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

Obviously some opinions are more valid than others. I could say that we were terrible last season and deserved to lose every match we played. It would be an opinion, but not one that's up to much.

It is my view that people who already think we're doomed to a season-long battle against relegation are wrong. I base it on what I've seen with my own eyes, what other fans have said, what opposition fans have said, the comments of opposition managers, my experience of watching Walsall and my faith in Richard Money to pull us around. I believe we are not far away from turning defeats into draws and draws into wins, particularly if we cut out the individual errors that have blighted all our matches so far.

We will only see who is right in the fulness of time. If our form improves soon and we end the season in midtable then there won't be any 'I told you so-s' from me. But I will be satisfied that whenever Walsall hit a sticky patch in the future, having a bit of patience and trust is a better approach than hitting the panic button.

Good measured response.

We can only hope DD reads the comments on this board and changes tack as he did towards the end of last season
:P :wink:

Indeed, without the fans we'd never have signed Kevin Harper after all. :roll: Your usernames quite apt at the moment by the way. :wink:

[WFCNIL]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

Obviously some opinions are more valid than others. I could say that we were terrible last season and deserved to lose every match we played. It would be an opinion, but not one that's up to much.

It is my view that people who already think we're doomed to a season-long battle against relegation are wrong. I base it on what I've seen with my own eyes, what other fans have said, what opposition fans have said, the comments of opposition managers, my experience of watching Walsall and my faith in Richard Money to pull us around. I believe we are not far away from turning defeats into draws and draws into wins, particularly if we cut out the individual errors that have blighted all our matches so far.

We will only see who is right in the fulness of time. If our form improves soon and we end the season in midtable then there won't be any 'I told you so-s' from me. But I will be satisfied that whenever Walsall hit a sticky patch in the future, having a bit of patience and trust is a better approach than hitting the panic button.

Good measured response.

We can only hope DD reads the comments on this board and changes tack as he did towards the end of last season
:P :wink:

Indeed, without the fans we'd never have signed Kevin Harper after all. :roll: Your usernames quite apt at the moment by the way. :wink:

Damned right !!
xxx

[Stu]

We can only hope DD reads the comments on this board and changes tack as he did towards the end of last season
:P :wink:

Indeed, without the fans we'd never have signed Kevin Harper after all. :roll: Your usernames quite apt at the moment by the way. :wink:

Damned right !!
xxx

You make me blush, :oops: , I'm flattered, there was I thinking that only Super Freddie Mumford handed out kisses on this site.

[Registered Saddler]

However some people seem to have written us off to relegation already and that seems rather unfair in my view

Big Baz has predicted us to go up. I find that a crazy prediction. Nobody has told him he's been too hasty in his views.

It just happens to be my (and a fair few others) view that by the end of the season we will be in, or around, the relegation places.

Are some opinions more valid than others? Seems so :roll:

Obviously some opinions are more valid than others. I could say that we were terrible last season and deserved to lose every match we played. It would be an opinion, but not one that's up to much.

It is my view that people who already think we're doomed to a season-long battle against relegation are wrong. I base it on what I've seen with my own eyes, what other fans have said, what opposition fans have said, the comments of opposition managers, my experience of watching Walsall and my faith in Richard Money to pull us around. I believe we are not far away from turning defeats into draws and draws into wins, particularly if we cut out the individual errors that have blighted all our matches so far.

We will only see who is right in the fulness of time. If our form improves soon and we end the season in midtable then there won't be any 'I told you so-s' from me. But I will be satisfied that whenever Walsall hit a sticky patch in the future, having a bit of patience and trust is a better approach than hitting the panic button.

Fully agree. I refuse to promise not to mention any "I told you so's" though, as I have a bet or two depending on it. :P

Arrogant.

[WFCNIL]

We can only hope DD reads the comments on this board and changes tack as he did towards the end of last season
:P :wink:

Indeed, without the fans we'd never have signed Kevin Harper after all. :roll: Your usernames quite apt at the moment by the way. :wink:

Damned right !!
xxx

You make me blush, :oops: , I'm flattered, there was I thinking that only Super Freddie Mumford handed out kisses on this site.

Hey
dont be coy this is the 21st century live a little :wink:

Ps Im not yga :oops:

[Geordiesaddler]

Very true RS, but those folk are also saying that if we can add a striker we won't be resigned to a season long battle... It seems that that opinions once formed have to be set in stone, that they can't change based on changing scenarios. So will they be proved wrong in the fullness of time or right?

My view is that this group of players will struggle, I think they'll stop up, but it'll get hairy at times. Purely because we lack strength in depth, as reflected by our subs bench on Saturday and I'm not sure we have goals in the team.

However add me a striker, centre midfielder and centre half in that order, and I could see us challenging for a mid-table spot around 12th - 15th quite comfortably. Like you, I trust DD to get that right and for things to turn around as we've certainly competed in the games we've played, just lacked a little something in both penalty boxes.

There seem's to be this stake in the ground mentality on UTS at the moment, where you have to say which side of the fence your on, without being able to take into account a changing situation.

Spot on Stu, and the messageboard is all the poorer for it.

[Stu]

We can only hope DD reads the comments on this board and changes tack as he did towards the end of last season
:P :wink:

Indeed, without the fans we'd never have signed Kevin Harper after all. :roll: Your usernames quite apt at the moment by the way. :wink:

Damned right !!
xxx

You make me blush, :oops: , I'm flattered, there was I thinking that only Super Freddie Mumford handed out kisses on this site.

Hey
dont be coy this is the 21st century live a little :wink:

Ps Im not yga :oops:

That's a shame... I was kind of hoping that, better stop or the Mods will tell me off as its a family board.

[tinned]

the fingers in the ears comment was a little childish as u will see that my OPINION was that DD had already identified the issue of bringing players in, and thats what happened, but you made it sound that the doom and gloom merchants were crying for this all along, when infact everyone was saying the same thing but in a different manner, which you promptly corrected yourself in the next post.

Not exactly true though Womble (although it's starting to become a piece of re-written history). There were MANY people last season that just would not accept any criticism of any degree. People definitely were not 'saying the same thing', they were chirping on about being "12/10/9/6.... points clear" and then "still in the top two" while some of us were warning about the possibility of us missing out on automatic promotion.

[Magic Man Fan]

the fingers in the ears comment was a little childish as u will see that my OPINION was that DD had already identified the issue of bringing players in, and thats what happened, but you made it sound that the doom and gloom merchants were crying for this all along, when infact everyone was saying the same thing but in a different manner, which you promptly corrected yourself in the next post.

Not exactly true though Womble (although it's starting to become a piece of re-written history). There were MANY people last season that just would not accept any criticism of any degree. People definitely were not 'saying the same thing', they were chirping on about being "12/10/9/6.... points clear" and then "still in the top two" while some of us were warning about the possibility of us missing out on automatic promotion.

But we didn't and didn't just get automatic promotion but won the league. The very fact that Money recognised the same deficiencies in the team and saved budget for when it was needed should be recognised.

He is doing the same now. Taking a step back, seeing what we need and using his budget wisely, instead of spending it on the first available players that come along like Merson did.

[Plastic Hawk]

the fingers in the ears comment was a little childish as u will see that my OPINION was that DD had already identified the issue of bringing players in, and thats what happened, but you made it sound that the doom and gloom merchants were crying for this all along, when infact everyone was saying the same thing but in a different manner, which you promptly corrected yourself in the next post.

Not exactly true though Womble (although it's starting to become a piece of re-written history). There were MANY people last season that just would not accept any criticism of any degree. People definitely were not 'saying the same thing', they were chirping on about being "12/10/9/6.... points clear" and then "still in the top two" while some of us were warning about the possibility of us missing out on automatic promotion.

But we didn't and didn't just get automatic promotion but won the league. The very fact that Money recognised the same deficiencies in the team and saved budget for when it was needed should be recognised.

He is doing the same now. Taking a step back, seeing what we need and using his budget wisely, instead of spending it on the first available players that come along like Merson did.

While that may be true I can't help worrying that he may be guilty of trying to be too clever by half here.

A bit of calm reflection is a good idea in theory, but he may have missed the boat by letting the transfer window close before making his move. Loans are all well and good, but you can only have so many of them and players over a certain age only for 93 days in a season. So, even if we do find the striker and midfielder that we need there's too many days between now and January 1st for them to stay here until we could sign them permanently. Plus, we'll be wasting loans we might need in case of an injury crisis or for a fresh push on deadline day next March.

[tinned]

the fingers in the ears comment was a little childish as u will see that my OPINION was that DD had already identified the issue of bringing players in, and thats what happened, but you made it sound that the doom and gloom merchants were crying for this all along, when infact everyone was saying the same thing but in a different manner, which you promptly corrected yourself in the next post.

Not exactly true though Womble (although it's starting to become a piece of re-written history). There were MANY people last season that just would not accept any criticism of any degree. People definitely were not 'saying the same thing', they were chirping on about being "12/10/9/6.... points clear" and then "still in the top two" while some of us were warning about the possibility of us missing out on automatic promotion.

But we didn't and didn't just get automatic promotion but won the league. The very fact that Money recognised the same deficiencies in the team and saved budget for when it was needed should be recognised.

He is doing the same now. Taking a step back, seeing what we need and using his budget wisely, instead of spending it on the first available players that come along like Merson did.

While that may be true I can't help worrying that he may be guilty of trying to be too clever by half here.

A bit of calm reflection is a good idea in theory, but he may have missed the boat by letting the transfer window close before making his move. Loans are all well and good, but you can only have so many of them and players over a certain age only for 93 days in a season. So, even if we do find the striker and midfielder that we need there's too many days between now and January 1st for them to stay here until we could sign them permanently. Plus, we'll be wasting loans we might need in case of an injury crisis or for a fresh push on deadline day next March.

I agree. No one is saying we should buy players like Merson did (which resembled the panic stage you go through on Football Manager, just before you switch it off and start again). I just think that DD could/should have been able to take that step back in July or August and realise that the squad is just not good enough. It's apparent to most fans (wherever they are on the negative-positive scale). I just can't see the tactical sense in starting the season with a makeshift squad and then patching it up as and when we can find players that moy or may not do the job required. Procactive management is recognising the deficiancies and countering them before they become damn obvious, not firefighting when they start costing points.

[Registered Saddler]

In fairness to Richard Money, he hasn't had anything like the choice of players he'd been expecting. Weston was injured to start with, Sonko's not been available for most of the season, Butler then Mooney have been injured, Dobson & Sonner got injured at the same time. Combine this with the mistakes being made in our most reliable position - central defence - and there is reason to think that we haven't seen this group of players at their best just yet.

Whether you think a first-choice team would be good enough based on what we've seen so far is another question. But we do rely on being better as a unit than as the individual parts.

One area where I do think we are weak is central midfield. We really could do with another option in there anyway as we're short on numbers, but getting someone a bit more dynamic (or getting Dobson to play that role) would make quite a difference IMO.