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Leyton Orient (A) League - Saturday 18th August 2007

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
Ian Gittins
 
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:01 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Ian Gittins wrote:Could not agree more, Registered. When I go to see a film, I pay to get in, but don't consider that gives me the right to swear my head off, talk loudly and generally behave like an all-round jerk. It seems accepted that different rules apply at football, and it's something I've never liked.


Oh dear.
Oh dear.
Give Ian a personality and a dummy. :lol:


Hello, Sheffield. How nice to hear from you. It's been a while. Whatever kind of personality I get given, for God's sake let it not be like yours. FACT. :)

Bernie
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:34 pm

This is a rough indication of what DD said on Saddlers World. He did not say anything in that interview about the crowd applauding Ishmel's run.

RM. The result hurts. We dominated the game really from start to finish, missed a hatful of chances. We've only really been caught on the counter attack. We conceded a goal by not stopping two crosses into our box and losing Wayne Grey on one of them. There were a couple of times when we had to scramble, and scramble really well. Clayton's made a penalty save in the first half and if you listen to that you would not believe just how dominant we were.

We are disappointed but the performance level was good. I think we have stepped up each game. We need to learn very quickly that if you make too many unforced errors in this league you get punished. People talk in a tennis match about making unforced errors. While we played really well we just made one or two silly decisions and it's cost us.

Q. How frustrated were you with the missed chances, and how successful was the Mooney - Carneiro partnership?

RM. I thought they played really well. I thought they worked together very very good. They get better match by match. Once we get Butler back I think we have got three forwards, any combination of which will give this division problems. I thought Carlos's movement in behind and running deep was very very good today. He'll learn about what the game is all about here. He knows he has to be stronger and a bit more powerful, but he has missed the first three weeks of pre-season and he'll get better week by week. In training he would side-foot that chance into the bottom corner calm as you like, but he wants a goal, he needs a goal, but unfortunately he snatched at it and put it the wrong side of the post.

Q. Ishmel Demontagnac came on just beyond the hour mark. How would you assess his performance?

RM. Promising, threatening, a real handful as we know. But at the end of the day the end product needs to be a little bit better. And it sums it up in the 89th minute when he has worked his own position, wriggled his way past the full back and crossed it behind the goal. When really all he has got to do is sidefoot it across the goal and Tommy Mooney side-foots it in. He'll learn from that, no doubt he'll get better as the weeks go on. Remember it's only his first game since the summer. I thought he was very unlucky to get the yellow card, I don't know what the blazes that was for. But to be honest very promising.

Q. Rhys Weston defended well and also got forward with good effect . . .

RM Well I think he I think he is a very capable right back. He is a good athlete, good size, very quick, good in the air at the back post. His service is very good. He has literally come on the pitch and played. He started to get a bit of cramp after an hour so we took him off as a precaution, nothing more than that. But again a very promising, pleasing debut.

Q. Ian Roper came in to show there is competition for places in that part of the field.

RM. Yes. To leave Anthony Gerrard out was not an easy decision. He has not done too much wrong in the first two games and I am sure he will be banging on my door on Monday morning, and rightly so, wanting to know why he did not play. But Ian gives us just a bit more toughness. Wins the first header, and a bit more experience, so it was not an easy decision, but one you have got to take as a manager.

Q. Any thoughts about the penalty award?

RM Well they actually said at half time that it was outside the box and a yellow card was the right decision. But Clayton's made the save and it did not make too much difference. Unfortunately we could not back him up by getting the result that the team deserved.

Q. After this game I guess it is one draw and one goal in three. How important is it for you to keep your head?

RM Well that is a manager's job to keep your head when all around you are losing theirs. Well that is one draw and one defeat. We lost in the Carling Cup. To be perfectly honest with you - so what we lost we're out, let's get on with it. The league is our bread and butter. That is one and half good performances, I can take lot of encouragement from that. I think that once we settle down next week and analyse it properly the players will realise, which I think they do already, that they played well. But performances are one thing, it is important to get the right type of footballers because that is how you win matches. We all know at the end of the day the bottom line is results. We don't like losing matches at this football club. We have only lost eight in the league since I came here. But that one today hurts, big time.

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Magic Man Fan
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:36 pm

Stu wrote:Interesting comments from DD on Ishmel this week;

"Manager Richard Money knows Walsall fans want to see the lightning quick Demontagnac in action for longer spells, but he said: "I'll sum Ishmel up in the 89th minute. "He does fantastically well then crosses with his right foot behind the goal, and every single Walsall supporter here applauded him back to the halfway line."I'm sorry, it ain't good enough. He has done marvellous to get there but he should have set up Tommy Mooney for a tap in. He knows it. We know it."


So now DD is criticising the fans for applauding players? ;)

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Jorge14
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Cheers for that Bernie.

Very sensible comments, and even as regards to Canfairy he says exaclty what I said to people on Saturday - he did his best work when he came deep and wide.

Nothing to criticise Money about there. He is spot on. About Roper, about the performance, about Ishmel.

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ws3
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Bernie wrote:This is a rough indication of what DD said on Saddlers World. He did not say anything in that interview about the crowd applauding Ishmel's run.

RM. The result hurts. We dominated the game really from start to finish, missed a hatful of chances. We've only really been caught on the counter attack. We conceded a goal by not stopping two crosses into our box and losing Wayne Grey on one of them. There were a couple of times when we had to scramble, and scramble really well. Clayton's made a penalty save in the first half and if you listen to that you would not believe just how dominant we were.

We are disappointed but the performance level was good. I think we have stepped up each game. We need to learn very quickly that if you make too many unforced errors in this league you get punished. People talk in a tennis match about making unforced errors. While we played really well we just made one or two silly decisions and it's cost us.

Q. How frustrated were you with the missed chances, and how successful was the Mooney - Carneiro partnership?

RM. I thought they played really well. I thought they worked together very very good. They get better match by match. Once we get Butler back I think we have got three forwards, any combination of which will give this division problems. I thought Carlos's movement in behind and running deep was very very good today. He'll learn about what the game is all about here. He knows he has to be stronger and a bit more powerful, but he has missed the first three weeks of pre-season and he'll get better week by week. In training he would side-foot that chance into the bottom corner calm as you like, but he wants a goal, he needs a goal, but unfortunately he snatched at it and put it the wrong side of the post.

Q. Ishmel Demontagnac came on just beyond the hour mark. How would you assess his performance?

RM. Promising, threatening, a real handful as we know. But at the end of the day the end product needs to be a little bit better. And it sums it up in the 89th minute when he has worked his own position, wriggled his way past the full back and crossed it behind the goal. When really all he has got to do is sidefoot it across the goal and Tommy Mooney side-foots it in. He'll learn from that, no doubt he'll get better as the weeks go on. Remember it's only his first game since the summer. I thought he was very unlucky to get the yellow card, I don't know what the blazes that was for. But to be honest very promising.

Q. Rhys Weston defended well and also got forward with good effect . . .

RM Well I think he I think he is a very capable right back. He is a good athlete, good size, very quick, good in the air at the back post. His service is very good. He has literally come on the pitch and played. He started to get a bit of cramp after an hour so we took him off as a precaution, nothing more than that. But again a very promising, pleasing debut.

Q. Ian Roper came in to show there is competition for places in that part of the field.

RM. Yes. To leave Anthony Gerrard out was not an easy decision. He has not done too much wrong in the first two games and I am sure he will be banging on my door on Monday morning, and rightly so, wanting to know why he did not play. But Ian gives us just a bit more toughness. Wins the first header, and a bit more experience, so it was not an easy decision, but one you have got to take as a manager.

Q. Any thoughts about the penalty award?

RM Well they actually said at half time that it was outside the box and a yellow card was the right decision. But Clayton's made the save and it did not make too much difference. Unfortunately we could not back him up by getting the result that the team deserved.

Q. After this game I guess it is one draw and one goal in three. How important is it for you to keep your head?

RM Well that is a manager's job to keep your head when all around you are losing theirs. Well that is one draw and one defeat. We lost in the Carling Cup. To be perfectly honest with you - so what we lost we're out, let's get on with it. The league is our bread and butter. That is one and half good performances, I can take lot of encouragement from that. I think that once we settle down next week and analyse it properly the players will realise, which I think they do already, that they played well. But performances are one thing, it is important to get the right type of footballers because that is how you win matches. We all know at the end of the day the bottom line is results. We don't like losing matches at this football club. We have only lost eight in the league since I came here. But that one today hurts, big time.


That goes a bit further to explaining why I thought that there must have been more said.

Thanks

Bernie
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:Whether he is right or wrong will only be shown in the fulness of time. We can judge for definite at the end of Ishy's current contract in 2009 as to what progress he has made as an individual and we have made as a team.

Can I predict how you will make that judgment in 2009? Here are four possible scenarios.

1. Ishmel has become a really good player worth a lot of money.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel.


2. Ishmel has become a reasonable player, but nothing special.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel.


3. Ishmel drops out of league football.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel


4. Ishmel a guest of Her Majesty.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel.
Last edited by Bernie on Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Bit bemused by Money's interview (and I am a fan of his).

I was one of those that applauded Ishy's run and shot in the 89th minute - yes, he could have done better with the cross-shot, but just think what we could have achieved on Saturday with that kind of talent and approach all match.

He visibly lifted the team's performance single-handedly with his first touch and run at the back four - who didn't have a clue how to handle him when he came on. He was - by far - the best player on the pitch.

As for Carneiro, I'll hold off for now - (after all, look how long it takes overseas Premiership players to adapt to the English game) - but his performance on Saturday left me worried. He has some way to go. Though the rest of the team didn't help - why, when he is so uncomfortable in the air, did we keep on hoofing the ball up in the air to him all game?

All in all, I think there are grounds for hope (and by that I mean mid-table consolidation this season). It's a new team - which will need time to gel. Full-backs looked very good, though I was surprised by how wobbly we seemed at times in central defence. Sonner ran his socks off, but needs more quality with the final ball. Up-front, we need to be more clinical (and that's Mooney as well as Carneiro) - we simply cannot afford to miss sitters as they both did on Saturday.

And we cannot afford to bring on Ishy when we're a goal down, and the pressure's on - let's play him for the first hour, rather than the last half hour.

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Magic Man Fan
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:44 pm

My views.

Played some of the best stuff we have for a while, even more exciting when Ishmel came on.

Once again DD put the young players on with lots of time to spare so it really does spell out his intentions for this season.

Caneiro was average, not pee poor as some are suggesting. He was average but missed a sitter so is getting lots of abuse for it. Mooney was slightly better than average but also missed a sitter yet hasn't been mentioned. As I've said I don't want to see Caneiro start, he'd be much better from the bench. Deeney or Ishmel or even Wrack playing behind Mooney would be better until Butler is fit/exciting strike-force is signed.

As I've said on another thread it's the opposite of last season. We weren't brilliant to watch last year but took the few chances that came our way and kept them out at the other end.

At Orient, poor defending (which will improve under DD's coaching) and missed chances cost us what would have been a good point.

I'm not Butler's biggest fan by any means but we'd have more points on the board if he'd played in both league games to date.

The only thing I can't believe is why hasn't anyone mentioned Ishmel's band of merry followers, especially his dad Maxi Jazz (from Faithless) lookalike. They should add some colour to the away games this season but I'm sure they were only there on Saturday as it's local for them.

I can only assume he is considering changing the words to Insomnia to "he can't get no games".

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Stu
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:44 pm

Bernie, I took that quote from RM direct from the Evening Mail, so I guess that they had a bigger version of that interview...

Don't really disagree with anything he says, bar possibly the stuff about Canary who really just didn't seem to get into the game for me.

Ian Gittins
 
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:14 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:I can only assume he is considering changing the words to Insomnia to "he can't get no games".


Very good. :D

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Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:40 pm

Bernie wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:Whether he is right or wrong will only be shown in the fulness of time. We can judge for definite at the end of Ishy's current contract in 2009 as to what progress he has made as an individual and we have made as a team.

Can I predict how you will make that judgment in 2009? Here are four possible scenarios.

1. Ishmel has become a really good player worth a lot of money.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel.


2. Ishmel has become a reasonable player, but nothing special.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel.


3. Ishmel drops out of league football.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel


4. Ishmel a guest of Her Majesty.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel.


:D How rude! For the record, I think both Ishy and Dann have the potential to play well at a higher level and hopefully they will do that with us, or at least make us a shed-load of cash in the process. I also think its a two-way street though and Ishy has his part to play as well as DD. I'm less worried about the 'end product' problem DD alludes to than the temperament concerns. If he keeps his head when we give him the opportunity to play this season, I'm sure we'll see a great deal of him. Hopefully starting with a place in the first team on Saturday.

Incidentally, nice to see DD use the phrase 'what the blazes' in reference to Ishy's booking on Saturday. Great use of language. I shall try to fit it into a conversation this week.

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ws3
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Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:44 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
Bernie wrote:
Registered Saddler wrote:Whether he is right or wrong will only be shown in the fulness of time. We can judge for definite at the end of Ishy's current contract in 2009 as to what progress he has made as an individual and we have made as a team.

Can I predict how you will make that judgment in 2009? Here are four possible scenarios.

1. Ishmel has become a really good player worth a lot of money.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel.


2. Ishmel has become a reasonable player, but nothing special.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel.


3. Ishmel drops out of league football.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel


4. Ishmel a guest of Her Majesty.

RS says that proves DD was right in the way he dealt with Ishmel.


:D How rude! For the record, I think both Ishy and Dann have the potential to play well at a higher level and hopefully they will do that with us, or at least make us a shed-load of cash in the process. I also think its a two-way street though and Ishy has his part to play as well as DD. I'm less worried about the 'end product' problem DD alludes to than the temperament concerns. If he keeps his head when we give him the opportunity to play this season, I'm sure we'll see a great deal of him. Hopefully starting with a place in the first team on Saturday.

Incidentally, nice to see DD use the phrase 'what the blazes' in reference to Ishy's booking on Saturday. Great use of language. I shall try to fit it into a conversation this week.


I think DD has an in built swear filter. What he actually said was "what the fishfinger".

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Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:47 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:Incidentally, nice to see DD use the phrase 'what the blazes' in reference to Ishy's booking on Saturday. Great use of language. I shall try to fit it into a conversation this week.


Nice to see DD question the booking cos many on here on Saturday who hadn't been were saying same old Ishmel when he hadn't done anything wrong. It was a ridiculous booking.

There was nothing to criticise Ishmel for on Saturday's showing. He gave us pace, penetration, excellent (but wasted :( crossing) and he was sprinting back to help out defensively.

DD criticised him for shooting instead of teeing up for Mooney for an easy tap in. Mooney had already missed a similar chance so I don't blame him for having a go. I also hope he levelled some criticism at Caneiro for trying to be flash with the outside of his foot when it would have been more like to score if it had trickled in off his shin.

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Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:51 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:My views.

Played some of the best stuff we have for a while, even more exciting when Ishmel came on.

Once again DD put the young players on with lots of time to spare so it really does spell out his intentions for this season.

Caneiro was average, not pee poor as some are suggesting. He was average but missed a sitter so is getting lots of abuse for it. Mooney was slightly better than average but also missed a sitter yet hasn't been mentioned. As I've said I don't want to see Caneiro start, he'd be much better from the bench. Deeney or Ishmel or even Wrack playing behind Mooney would be better until Butler is fit/exciting strike-force is signed.

As I've said on another thread it's the opposite of last season. We weren't brilliant to watch last year but took the few chances that came our way and kept them out at the other end.

At Orient, poor defending (which will improve under DD's coaching) and missed chances cost us what would have been a good point.

I'm not Butler's biggest fan by any means but we'd have more points on the board if he'd played in both league games to date.

The only thing I can't believe is why hasn't anyone mentioned Ishmel's band of merry followers, especially his dad Maxi Jazz (from Faithless) lookalike. They should add some colour to the away games this season but I'm sure they were only there on Saturday as it's local for them.

I can only assume he is considering changing the words to Insomnia to "he can't get no games".


According to Sandwell it was his uncle ! Even though the bloke in question was sat next to us and told us himself he was Ishy's dad

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Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:17 am

Perhaps DD is already preparing the ground / making excuses for not starting Ishmel against Swansea? :?:

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big baz 1
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Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:49 am

As ive said on here and i said to my mates at the match adam and james chambers uncle will works at the same place as me. I spoke to him last night and he knows im a super saddler and he said " webby I spoke to adam last night and he admitted to me that he dived for that penalty and he admittted he was outside the area".

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