Leyton Orient (A) League - Saturday 18th August 2007

[Young_Tong]

I wonder how many of those barracking Carneiro used to have a go at Butler when he was first at Walsall.

No matter how bad Carneiro is for Walsall Football Club, he is not as bad as those who boo him.

& not as bad as the happy clappers who are willing to put with such a desperately bad player.

First time that I have ever been called a happy clapper. :?

I am not happy with some of the signings DD has made - in fact I am rather sceptical of most of them - but does anyone want to hear DD again blame the fans for the failure of some of his signings as he did last year?

Teams win a lot more matches at home than away because they benefit from being in a supportive environment. We should not contribute to the failure of our team by being too negative at the matches.

Now what we say on this board is quite a different matter . . . . .

I was another who couldn't make the game (or live match commentary thanks to PTV) yesterday but it clearly sounds as if Carneiro had a shocker.

IMO people who are attempting to raise the confidence of a player by supporting them rather than barracking them cannot be branded happy clappers. It's called supporting your team.

To use Mark Wright as an example:
I wasn't a member of the MWAS but when Mark Wright was having a bad day in the office people gave him 90 minutes of hell and, for a player who thrived on confidence this must have really made his game drop. I don't wish to re-open the MW arguments because he clearly wasn't good enough for this league but I'd much rather see us trying to lift a player from a bad spell. I clearly remember last season saying that we should get behind the players rather than get on their backs for mistakes and someone said "We only do it on the board not at the match". Apparently not so!

To the Gloom and Doom mongers who seem most content when moaning and barracking players' performances (and you have a right to as a paying customer) try and support a player who isn't doing so well. If your young son were playing football and he played like Carneiro yesterday how would you act? Would you:

:arrow: Give him kind words of advice to lift his confidence in the hopes that he will pick himself up and try again.
:arrow: Barrack him so his confidence is so low that he decides to quit football and get a job in recruitment instead of trying football.

[Flemish Saddler]

Good to see you lot over here again Bart. Glad you got back ok. Hope to see you all again soon :D

all our pleasure, see ya vs Oldham on the 22nd of september

[Bristol Fan]

I don't wish to re-open the MW arguments because he clearly wasn't good enough for this league

I do want to re-open the arguments, because he would have been better than Paul Hall has been. And cheaper.

[Young_Tong]

I don't wish to re-open the MW arguments because he clearly wasn't good enough for this league

I do want to re-open the arguments, because he would have been better than Paul Hall has been. And cheaper.

I agree although saying so contradicts my post.

[priestley_saddler]

I never said Carneiro played a blinder, I just said that some of the criticism we received was a bit unjustified when he wasn't the only one to make mistakes. As for DD's comments on WM about us having the best strikeforce in the league, yes it may be a bit pie in the sky, but I think he's just trying to keep the lads confidence up. If his own manager can't stand up for him then thats not gonna do him any good at all, and lets face it, if he had to rely on the fans support for confidence then he's probably just about to hang himself.

I think the technical term for what DD is doing with Carneiro is GIVING HIM A CHANCE, which for those of you that are unaware involves giving a player match time to adapt to a new league in a new country with a different style of play to that he's been used too before. The wisdom behind signing him is admittedly questionable, but we need to face up to the fact that he's here for the forseeable future, is likely to play his fair share of games and deserves our support when he's wearing the red/white/blue/yellow shirt. Running all the way down from the back of the stand to the front to hurl abuse at him for missing a chance isn't doing anybody any good (mentioning no names, but you know who you are :wink: )

As I said in my previous post, when he had the ball on the floor he showed some nice touches, and if he played in an advanced midfield role behind the strikers, where he didn't have to keep having the ball hoofed up in the air to him, he could turn out to offer something positive to the team.

[latviancheese]

I don't wish to re-open the MW arguments because he clearly wasn't good enough for this league

I do want to re-open the arguments, because he would have been better than Paul Hall has been. And cheaper.

Im actually extremly worried because im agreeing with that.

[Asps]

I wonder how many of those barracking Carneiro used to have a go at Butler when he was first at Walsall.

No matter how bad Carneiro is for Walsall Football Club, he is not as bad as those who boo him.

& not as bad as the happy clappers who are willing to put with such a desperately bad player.

First time that I have ever been called a happy clapper. :?

I am not happy with some of the signings DD has made - in fact I am rather sceptical of most of them - but does anyone want to hear DD again blame the fans for the failure of some of his signings as he did last year?

Teams win a lot more matches at home than away because they benefit from being in a supportive environment. We should not contribute to the failure of our team by being too negative at the matches.

Now what we say on this board is quite a different matter . . . . .

Wasn't calling you a happy clapper Bernie - it as aimed at the few yesterday who were defending the indefensible.

I hate barracking of players & I very rarely do it, I get nothing out of it & its the last thing I want to do, but after watch Carlos for 70 minutes & seeing that miss, i like many others couldn't sit on my hands any longer. I ain't going to put with play like that & barracking for 30 seconds is my way of making DD & the board aware of that.

You had to see it to believe it yesterday Bernie - this guy is not a footballer, he will never do anything for us. Nothing to do with confidence - this guy is rubbish.

Prior to that miss, fans had been patient & restrained - afterall with the exception of Carlos, we had seen some good stuff, lots of positives.After the barracking died down there was no continual booing of him or anything like that - People were too numb after the shock of that miss.

[Pedagogue]

A very fair-minded response, Priestley Saddler, but consider this:- what do we have a reserve team for? Carlos can adapt to the physical nature of English football there. Meanwhile his inept performances in the first team are a major factor in us dropping valuable points.

Generally speaking, he was let off lightly by the Saddlers' fans, yesterday. Admittedly, Doffer's reaction, to which you refer, was OTT but he was very much the exception. The rest of us just groaned and sobbed quietly! :( . The only other vehement reaction was that of Ishy's family whom, I think, were ready to publicly lynch the referee at one stage, particularly after he (harshly) cautioned their baby boy! :lol:

The fact remains that, as I said above, he should never have been given a contract in the first place. We have very little money so it's vital that we don't waste the little that we have. Just look at his record on our own club website. His record of appearances and goals at Gil Vicente, Vitoria Guimaraes and Panionios is pathetic, to say the least. Why on earth did we ever think that he would be good enough? Did we ever watch him play?.................or was his agent's name in some-one's address book? He will be 33 at Christmas, for goodness' sake! I've never rated Hector Sam but he was miles better than Carlos Carneiro.

[latviancheese]

A very fair-minded response, PS, but consider this:- what do we have a reserve team for? Carlos can adapt to the physical nature of English football there. Meanwhile his inept performances in the first team are a major factor in us dropping valuable points.

Generally speaking, he was let off lightly by the Saddlers' fans, yesterday. Admittedly, Doffer's reaction, to which you refer, was OTT but he was very much the exception. The rest of us just groaned and sobbed quietly! :( . The only other vehement reaction was that of Ishy's family whom, I think, were ready to publicly lynch the referee at one stage, particularly after he (harshly) cautioned their cautioned their baby boy! :lol:

The fact remains that, as I said above, he should never have been given a contract in the first place. We have very little money so it's vital that we don't waste the little that we have. Just look at his record on our own club website. His record of appearances and goals at Gil Vicente, Vitoria Guimaraes and Panionios is pathetic, to say the least. Why on earth did we ever think that he would be good enough? Did we ever watch him play?.................or was his agent's name in some-one's address book? He will be 33 at Christmas, for goodness' sake! I've never rated Hector Sam but he was miles better than Carlos Carneiro.

Cause he's mates with Jorge so he must be good :roll:

[priestley_saddler]

A very fair-minded response, Priestley Saddler, but consider this:- what do we have a reserve team for? Carlos can adapt to the physical nature of English football there. Meanwhile his inept performances in the first team are a major factor in us dropping valuable points.

Generally speaking, he was let off lightly by the Saddlers' fans, yesterday. Admittedly, Doffer's reaction, to which you refer, was OTT but he was very much the exception. The rest of us just groaned and sobbed quietly! :( . The only other vehement reaction was that of Ishy's family whom, I think, were ready to publicly lynch the referee at one stage, particularly after he (harshly) cautioned their baby boy! :lol:

The fact remains that, as I said above, he should never have been given a contract in the first place. We have very little money so it's vital that we don't waste the little that we have. Just look at his record on our own club website. His record of appearances and goals at Gil Vicente, Vitoria Guimaraes and Panionios is pathetic, to say the least. Why on earth did we ever think that he would be good enough? Did we ever watch him play?.................or was his agent's name in some-one's address book? He will be 33 at Christmas, for goodness' sake! I've never rated Hector Sam but he was miles better than Carlos Carneiro.

I agree with everything your saying, and I've said already I don't think he's a striker. However, as things stand the alternatives to him are Butler, who is either ill or on way out we shall see, either way I doubt he'll play next weekend. Deeney, who looked green last week and who I don't think he's ready yet. If played now before he's matured enough he may become a target for the boo boys and get driven out. The only other one is Player X/Y/Z/A/B/C who hasn't even signed for us yet. As a result it has to be Carneiro up front, and as he's the only option, barracking him wont get us anywhere. If we had a capable replacement on the bench then fine, we let DD know we think whoevers on the bench is better, but to slag him off and say he shouldn't be playing when there isn't anyone else to replace him is pointless.

The only other alternative would be to play Mooney as a lone striker with Ishy and Nicholls supporting him from either side.

Now there's an idea... :D

[Registered Saddler]

RS - the Saddlers' fans were, in general, NOT barracking him. Remarkably, he got very little 'flak'. Quite how long this tolerance will prevail, is another matter, of course! You needed to see the performance to believe it. He has GOT to be dropped after that. Troy Deeney is not ready yet but he has got to be an improvement on the Portugese clown. He could gain valuable experience alongside Mooney and/or Butler. Better still - unfasten the padlock on your wallet, Jeff! :D

Judging by some of the other comments above, clearly there were people who were annoyed by the amount of criticism he was getting, but I wasn't there so I can't judge for myself. What annoys me is when people write him off as a 'clown' or a 'joke' in what was only his third game in a new country. That sort of criticism of his performance is hardly productive.

Maybe he will turn out to be worse than Fitzgerald (who was worse than Barrowman), but that's hardly reason for getting on his case. That ire should be directed elsewhere if we've been fed a duffer who is not up to the task when we are badly in need of a striker. If someone can't be bothered, shirks responsibility, shows no pride in the shirt, constantly lets the side down - he deserves all the abuse he gets. But give the guy a break, it's still August for crying out loud!

PS - I take your point about blooding him in the reserves, and have said elsewhere that Deeney has proved he can score goals at every level he's played so far. But again, team selection isn't his decision, its not his fault.

[Duke]

RS - the Saddlers' fans were, in general, NOT barracking him. Remarkably, he got very little 'flak'. Quite how long this tolerance will prevail, is another matter, of course! You needed to see the performance to believe it. He has GOT to be dropped after that. Troy Deeney is not ready yet but he has got to be an improvement on the Portugese clown. He could gain valuable experience alongside Mooney and/or Butler. Better still - unfasten the padlock on your wallet, Jeff! :D

Judging by some of the other comments above, clearly there were people who were annoyed by the amount of criticism he was getting, but I wasn't there so I can't judge for myself. What annoys me is when people write him off as a 'clown' or a 'joke' in what was only his third game in a new country. That sort of criticism of his performance is hardly productive.

Maybe he will turn out to be worse than Fitzgerald (who was worse than Barrowman), but that's hardly reason for getting on his case. That ire should be directed elsewhere if we've been fed a duffer who is not up to the task when we are badly in need of a striker. If someone can't be bothered, shirks responsibility, shows no pride in the shirt, constantly lets the side down - he deserves all the abuse he gets. But give the guy a break, it's still August for crying out loud!

PS - I take your point about blooding him in the reserves, and have said elsewhere that Deeney has proved he can score goals at every level he's played so far. But again, team selection isn't his decision, its not his fault.

Great post RS , Could'nt agree more.some fans expect to much to soon.

[Ned_Kelly]

A very fair-minded response, Priestley Saddler, but consider this:- what do we have a reserve team for? Carlos can adapt to the physical nature of English football there. Meanwhile his inept performances in the first team are a major factor in us dropping valuable points.

Generally speaking, he was let off lightly by the Saddlers' fans, yesterday. Admittedly, Doffer's reaction, to which you refer, was OTT but he was very much the exception. The rest of us just groaned and sobbed quietly! :( . The only other vehement reaction was that of Ishy's family whom, I think, were ready to publicly lynch the referee at one stage, particularly after he (harshly) cautioned their baby boy! :lol:
The fact remains that, as I said above, he should never have been given a contract in the first place. We have very little money so it's vital that we don't waste the little that we have. Just look at his record on our own club website. His record of appearances and goals at Gil Vicente, Vitoria Guimaraes and Panionios is pathetic, to say the least. Why on earth did we ever think that he would be good enough? Did we ever watch him play?.................or was his agent's name in some-one's address book? He will be 33 at Christmas, for goodness' sake! I've never rated Hector Sam but he was miles better than Carlos Carneiro.

1 of the most amusing bits from yesterday. After seeing his dad go balistic its easy to see where Ishy gets his temperement from :wink: :D

[Pedagogue]

Dave - we can't afford a lengthy spell for a player, who's nearly 33, to get used to English football - we'd be relegation certainties by the time he got the hang of it - if he ever did! In our situation, a player on 1st team wages has got to "hit the ground running", so to speak.

RS - I will withdraw the word 'clown'. I shouldn't have used it. After all, a clown is funny and entertaining - Carneiro was neither. I will repeat that Carneiro got surprisingly little audible criticism from our fans, so he can't claim that as an excuse.

PS - you make make an excellent point about the rôle that Carneiro was trying (and failing) to play. Tactics should be made to fit the players - not the other way round. Personally, I don't share your confidence that he could play another rôle in the team. His first touch on the ball, his heading, shooting, passing, movement off the ball, etc. just does not look good enough.

RS and PS - where the three of us appear to share common opinions is of the actions of the management:-

(a) Did any-one actually go and watch Carneiro play?.......or was it on the basis of a very selective YouTube clip?
(b) Did not his very UNIMPRESSIVE record, of appearances and goals, at his three previous clubs ring any alarm bells?
(c) Did not his age, of 33, next Christmas, (particularly considering that we already have Mooney (36), Hall (35) and Butler (33 next month)) suggest that he might be a risk?
(d) Who authorised a full contract for him, instead of a short-term triallist one (like Fangueiro, Cederqvist and Lyall)?

No, I'm sorry, but some-one at WFC has messed up, big style, on this signing.

[Jorge14]

Havn't read much of this thread, but I can only say I agree with what I was saying to Pedro, Magic, Blazing and Mersiah's after the game - if we play like that week in, week out we will be absolutely fine. There is nothing to get upset about, other than Carlos' lousy finishing.

I thought Sonner and Dobson ran the show and really dominated Thornton and Chambers who are, without a doubt, two of the classier footballers in League One, and I was disapointed to see Dobson go off. Hall improved as the game went on, and Weston looked solid as did the whole defence save for the goal and a couple of shaky moments from Dann and Boertien.

I thought Money was poor in the second half, but when you are as isolated as he was with Carlos alongside him, I don't know how much you can blame the fella. Certainly he's the best striker we've got at the minute.

If Ishy's cameo doesn't convince Dosh to start him up top alongside Mooney, then I don't know what will. We were crying out for some pace up front in the first half when Mooney was winning headers and challenges. What little good Carlos did do came when he drifted out wide - that is no good in the system we are playing. Deeney or Ishy up front next week please, Dickie.

On the balance of play, I think a draw would have been the fairest result. However, as I was saying to MMF after the game, if Carlos, Mooney, Bradley or Ishy take their chance then we are 2 or 3-1 winners. As long as the chances are being created, and as soon as we get someone who can bag with some regularity, then we will be absolutely fine. I don't think we will struggle in the long run this season - so what is wrong with Money blooding Deeney or Ishmel with more regularity. Carlos (supposedly) offers us something, but that is only ever going to be short-term, and judging on his introduction to League football, he's only going to be here for a season. Why waste a season of consilidation on a 33 year old when we could be giving an 18 or 19 year old a footballing education alongside one of the most experienced strikers in League football?

[Asps]

Top post Leamore

BTW - It was Matthew Simmons who was the Palace fan who stormed down the terrace to barrack Cantona

[Pedagogue]

Top post Leamore

BTW - It was Matthew Simmons who was the Palace fan who stormed down the terrace to barrack Cantona

Cheers - I remember it now.





In case any-one is wondering what we are on about, we were trying to remember the name as we watched Mr. Demontagnac try to get onto the pitch to assassinate the referee (and one of the Orient players). As Ned Kelly has remarked, you could see Ishy's genetic inheritance! :lol:

[Geordiesaddler]

Agree entirely with Leamore, not much to add then other than I thought we played some very good football and Ishy was superb in every aspect of his game, he looks to have matured very much as a player and I thought he showed excellent temperement we simply can't have a talent like that sitting on the bench I'm afraid.

As for Caneiro? Well if he isn't going to score from the chance he was presented with yesterday he's never going to. I would have backed, Deeney, Nicholls, Sam or Benjamin to have bust the net with that chance, in fact my 4 year old buries more difficult chances in our back yard every day of his life - albeit with me in goal.

He must be replaced I'm afraid because to get the best out of Mooney we can't have the same situation we had with Butler last season, where he has to do all his own donkey work plus half of somebody elses.

Ishy or Nicholls up front for me next week if we don't sign anyone, personally I think Ishy should get the nod and let's see what he can do.

[WS1]

Caneiro was the pits yesterday dreadful worse than Barrowman and thats saying something but what i want to know is where is this strikeforce Bonsor said in Excuse & Star we would proud off? yesterday we was an embrassement an 36 year old grandad and Portguese donkey we are in for long hard season if these pair carry on and well done to Doffer having a go at Caneiro paying £20 of well hard dosh for that pile of $ hite.

Stan for once I totally agree with you now there's a first chum, I usually give new players a few games to get use to their team mates but not this dope, why is he facing the oppositions player when trying to jump for a ball, what has he done in pre season training to convince Dicki Dosh to give him a contract.

I do hope this player proves me wrong but I don't hold much hope out.

:roll:

[WS1]

Did anyone else hear the Walsall fan, 'Ian', rip into Carlos on WM after the game? :shock:

I was driving up the M1, near Rugby, and just managed to get reception from WM.

I got the impression that 'Ian' wasn't too impressed with Mr. Carneiro today. :lol:

Yes, I heard that, too. He described Carneiro's performance as "indescribably dreadful" (isn't that an oxymoron?). Prior to that, Dicky Dosh was interviewed and he claimed that (i) Carneiro had played well (cue instant, simultaneous, raucous laughter from everyone in our car) and (ii) when Butler is fit, we will have a choice of the best strike force in League One, whichever pair plays! Bullsh*t!!!!!

I like the way that DD does not blab constantly to the media and does not publicly denigrate our players (unlike a certain other recent manager of ours!) but please, please, please, Dicky - DO NOT INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE! We may not have UEFA Pro Coaching Licences or Academy Director's Licences but we are NOT blind and not all of us are stupid! When a player is crud, it is all too obvious. Please do not attempt to defend the indefensible!

Well said Lemore Saddler could have not put it better myself.

[sandwellsaddler]

A very fair-minded response, Priestley Saddler, but consider this:- what do we have a reserve team for? Carlos can adapt to the physical nature of English football there. Meanwhile his inept performances in the first team are a major factor in us dropping valuable points.

Generally speaking, he was let off lightly by the Saddlers' fans, yesterday. Admittedly, Doffer's reaction, to which you refer, was OTT but he was very much the exception. The rest of us just groaned and sobbed quietly! :( . The only other vehement reaction was that of Ishy's family whom, I think, were ready to publicly lynch the referee at one stage, particularly after he (harshly) cautioned their baby boy! :lol:
The fact remains that, as I said above, he should never have been given a contract in the first place. We have very little money so it's vital that we don't waste the little that we have. Just look at his record on our own club website. His record of appearances and goals at Gil Vicente, Vitoria Guimaraes and Panionios is pathetic, to say the least. Why on earth did we ever think that he would be good enough? Did we ever watch him play?.................or was his agent's name in some-one's address book? He will be 33 at Christmas, for goodness' sake! I've never rated Hector Sam but he was miles better than Carlos Carneiro.

1 of the most amusing bits from yesterday. After seeing his dad go balistic its easy to see where Ishy gets his temperement from :wink: :D

wasn't his dad it was his uncle

[Registered Saddler]

RS and PS - where the three of us appear to share common opinions is of the actions of the management:-

(a) Did any-one actually go and watch Carneiro play?.......or was it on the basis of a very selective YouTube clip?
(b) Did not his very UNIMPRESSIVE record, of appearances and goals, at his three previous clubs ring any alarm bells?
(c) Did not his age, of 33, next Christmas, (particularly considering that we already have Mooney (36), Hall (35) and Butler (33 next month)) suggest that he might be a risk?
(d) Who authorised a full contract for him, instead of a short-term triallist one (like Fangueiro, Cederqvist and Lyall)?

No, I'm sorry, but some-one at WFC has messed up, big style, on this signing.

You are correct, I do agree, although I wouldn't write him off on the basis of three games. Despite the fact he is only a short-term measure, there are plenty of games left for him to make an impact IF he can show he is good enough. Sometimes you have to take a punt on a foreign unknown, sometimes they come off. But if we've recruited him for, erm, not strictly footballing reasons, then I'll be well annoyed.

[SheffieldSaddler]

My views of the match, is we played some decent football and created chances, but whats the point when you dont score them? Answer- No point whatsoever.
Our defence were decent, although Dann had a bad game.
Midfield was ok, good to see it without Fox, thats for sure.
Attack, well what can you say? If 1 of your 2 forwards is a donkey, you are not going to score many are you. Carneiro is clueless. Useless distribution, usekess at holding it up and most of all useless at taking chances. How a professional footballer can not get it on target with the chance he had is shameful.

[Stu]

Hmmm, I'm in two minds here... Granted, I agree with some who say we played okay, but on the other hand, I don't agree with the comments along the lines of if we play like that every week we'll finish comfortably.

Purely because we created just two clear cut chances against a very poor side, anyone who thinks Orient will be play off or top half material, as some folk said last week, is living in cloud cuckoo land. They were dreadful, make no mistake.

I don't think we'll come up against many teams as poor as them away from home this season and a failure to get a point against them really must go down as dropped points.

Which is why, if we play like that every week, we will struggle as we'll come up against better teams who will create more opportunities and if we continue to waste and fail to create more opportunities, then we'll quite simply lose matches.

I know folk say that pre-season isn't really indicative of anything, however we've played 9 games including pre-season and we've failed to score in 5 of them... Of the 4 games we have scored in, 2 were against non-league sides. As I said pre-season and was shouted down at pre-season, I don't think we've got the creativity or the strikers capable of scoring.

There is a foundation there, quite clearly, but whether we've got the finances to actually build on those foundations is the question to ask.

[Pedagogue]

Sometimes you have to take a punt on a foreign unknown, sometimes they come off. But if we've recruited him for, erm, not strictly footballing reasons, then I'll be well annoyed.

Mmmm...............now I wonder what you could possibly mean by that? :shock: :? :wink: :D

[Atomic Rooster]

We are in exactly the same position we were in at the beginning of pre-season...a striker and a creative midfielder short.

If we fail to get at least one of these in before the end of August we will draw alot of games 0-0 or lose by the odd goal.

[Spenco]

Sporting Star report by Steve Madeley....Everything in it containing Carneiro's name.........

"Money kept faith with Carneiro alongside Mooney in attack"

"Carneiro did well to hold of Thelwell's challenge and tee up Mooney for a volley that dipped just over"

"Carneiro and Mooney also showed decent signs of a growing understanding and Carneiro looked to have done well to hold up play and find mooney, only for the Portugese to be penalised for a foul on purches"

"The full back found Carneiro on the edge of the box and his first touch found him a yard of space alongside Mkandawire. However, Carneiro's shot was tame and it deflected off a defender"

"A minute later Carneiro did well to get the better of Mkandawire and he tried to find Mooney with a clever pass that almost made it through"

"Carneiro had started the second half in argumentative mood and on 51 minutes he was booked for a comment made to the referee."

"Walsall were throwing more men forward and just before the hour mark Carneiro won a corner off Palmer."

"Walsall won another corner when a Mooney flick-on found Carneiro and Purches slid in with a timely tackle"

"A free-kick by Sonner was flicked on by Roper to Carneiro and he had a one-on-one with Nelson. However he blasted wide of goal, bringing jeers from the home fans"


...All in All, not a bad game from him then!? :shock:

[Asps]

Steve Madeley must have been plied something by STM to write that :wink:

& you obviously weren't there Spenco :roll:

[Salop Saddler]

I didn't go yesterday so can't comment about Carneiro, but I think it's fair to say you pretty much know what your going to get with a majority of STM's bargain basement imports. I hope Carneiro comes good, and clearly he'll need time, but the blokes a seasoned pro, and if he isn't into the swing of things after half a dozen games then I'd have to have great reservations about him.

[WarsawPact]

Dave - we can't afford a lengthy spell for a player, who's nearly 33, to get used to English football - we'd be relegation certainties by the time he got the hang of it - if he ever did! In our situation, a player on 1st team wages has got to "hit the ground running", so to speak...

Surely he was signed with a view to getting used to football in this country in the reserves, with Mooney & Butler as first choice.