Carlisle (H) League 1- Saturday 11th August 2007

[Jolly Johnny]

As ever I try not to read many comments on the match thread before making mine.

The difference in this league is that Gall took his goal very well from what wasn't an easy chance (made far easier from Ince's hesitation though). In League 2 that would have been hit over the stand so we need to be more alert to stay level at half time. Having said that Carlisle are definitely not 'run of the mill' side, they were pacy, incisive and moved the ball quickly and will be challenging for promotion. Many other sides won't be.

In summary of the first half, some are going to have to be patient this season. As I tried to point out at half time, some people seem to have rose tinted ideas of last season. There were several games where we were far worse than that in the 1st half but we won the league. People were making up things to suit their argument. People were saying we were never going to score and just as I argued we'll see a different performance in the second and a goal, Mooney scored.

Unfortunately Ishy was suspended, if he wasn't we'd have won that and we will win many other games with the same style of play and tactic.

Overall promising signs I thought. Defending was excellent and we saw young players bought on and I don't think we'll be in any danger of relegation. The aim for most of us for the season I thought so I hope I don't read much negativity in a minute. As with last season the midfield could be better and another striker would be preferred but there's time for that to happen yet. The difference was the finishing of the opposition but if the game had gone on we'd have won.

If you had MMF, you'd have seen your thoughts are virtually the same for every player as mine on the last page - agree with everything you've put!! :D

Don't understand the stick Fox has got by some on here. Okay he is frustrating and had an anonymous and uneventful first half, but he was a lot better second half and didn't really do much wrong. Clearly is playing as asked by the manager, but it would be nice to see him wake up a bit when we attack, otherwise,as you say, it doesn't give Boertien much option when he has the ball.

[Duke]

Thanks MMF , So pleased somebody else noticed Wrack , a few times Nichols was in space ready to make a run , Wrack ignored him cut inside a gave the ball away.
To be fair to Wrack he had a decent game , very good covering in the first half , made several excellent clearances . some fans forget he's not a full back.
No doubt in my mind , as you said with Ishmel in the side we would have taken all 3 points

[Stu]

Don't understand the stick Fox has got by some on here. Okay he is frustrating and had an anonymous and uneventful first half, but he was a lot better second half and didn't really do much wrong. Clearly is playing as asked by the manager, but it would be nice to see him wake up a bit when we attack, otherwise,as you say, it doesn't give Boertien much option when he has the ball.

You answer your own question there... The bit highlighed in bold is exactly why some people get so frustrated with him.

People say he doens't do too much wrong, I'd say not exploiting the 20/30 yards of space ahead of, not continuing the overlap when playing a 1-2 with Boertein is doing something wrong. As a left sided midfielder, I'd expect him to do that, expect him to fill the space and occupy their right back.

I find it a tad surprising when your left back provides more attacking threat than your left midfielder. As MMF says, if DD isn't ready to start with Ishmel, then I'd look at swapping them over.

The only disagreement I have with is how folk see Carlisle... The Carlisle fan I know thinks they're a Top 12 side. The reason they finished 8th last season was the momentum of their promotion, as they started the season with 1 defeat in their first 13 matches, W6 D6 L1... They took 24 from the first 39 matches, then only 44 from the next 33, so quickly settled into mid-table form a la Vale or Crewe.

That Carlisle team didn't have the attacking threat to mount a Top 6 challenge in my view. For all their possession and general control of the 1st half, they created very little apart from the goal which we contributed too.

[Jolly Johnny]

Don't understand the stick Fox has got by some on here. Okay he is frustrating and had an anonymous and uneventful first half, but he was a lot better second half and didn't really do much wrong. Clearly is playing as asked by the manager, but it would be nice to see him wake up a bit when we attack, otherwise,as you say, it doesn't give Boertien much option when he has the ball.

You answer your own question there... The bit highlighed in bold is exactly why some people get so frustrated with him.

People say he doens't do too much wrong, I'd say not exploiting the 20/30 yards of space ahead of, not continuing the overlap when playing a 1-2 with Boertein is doing something wrong. As a left sided midfielder, I'd expect him to do that, expect him to fill the space and occupy their right back.

I'm used to having to answer my own questions!!

I'd agree with what you say about what Fox should be doing as a left midfielder, I guess what I meant when I said he didn't do a lot wrong yesterday was more in not giving the ball away too much or the massive glaring errors which he can be prone to and people quickly pick up on, although not overlapping and playing into the space could be perceived as glaring errors by some!!

[Magic Man Fan]

Don't understand the stick Fox has got by some on here. Okay he is frustrating and had an anonymous and uneventful first half, but he was a lot better second half and didn't really do much wrong. Clearly is playing as asked by the manager, but it would be nice to see him wake up a bit when we attack, otherwise,as you say, it doesn't give Boertien much option when he has the ball.

You answer your own question there... The bit highlighed in bold is exactly why some people get so frustrated with him.

People say he doens't do too much wrong, I'd say not exploiting the 20/30 yards of space ahead of, not continuing the overlap when playing a 1-2 with Boertein is doing something wrong. As a left sided midfielder, I'd expect him to do that, expect him to fill the space and occupy their right back.

I'm used to having to answer my own questions!!

I'd agree with what you say about what Fox should be doing as a left midfielder, I guess what I meant when I said he didn't do a lot wrong yesterday was more in not giving the ball away too much or the massive glaring errors which he can be prone to and people quickly pick up on, although not overlapping and playing into the space could be perceived as glaring errors by some!!

Including me if we're talking about him as a left midfielder, but as I say it's DD's error not Fox's. He's naturally defensive and it shows.

[Registered Saddler]

Maybe Gerrard and Dann swapped around in the first half as I can remember a number of occasions where, watching from behind the goal in the F2G middle tier, Dann was the right of the two centre halves.

You're right - watch the goal again, its Dann playing next to Wrack. Its one of the reasons why I think Dann had such a good game, because he adapted to sweep up behind Wrack when he was caught for pace (unfortunately, only once we'd gone one down). I don't think Gerrard would have done that job so effectively had he been playing on the right.

[Stu]

Maybe Gerrard and Dann swapped around in the first half as I can remember a number of occasions where, watching from behind the goal in the F2G middle tier, Dann was the right of the two centre halves.

You're right - watch the goal again, its Dann playing next to Wrack. Its one of the reasons why I think Dann had such a good game, because he adapted to sweep up behind Wrack when he was caught for pace (unfortunately, only once we'd gone one down). I don't think Gerrard would have done that job so effectively had he been playing on the right.

Eyesight it was then, still doesn't change the original viewpoint, its just that it was Dann instead of Gerrard.

[Fray Bentos is God!]

I thought we put ourselves about well apart from the fust half hour where we were thoroughly outplayed by a team with 3-4 pacy front players

[KJC]

DD's views........
.

Courtesy of the Express & Star....
http://www.expressandstar.co.uk/2007/08 ... ed-by-dad/

Walsall boss Richard Money praised the Bescot fans after they roared their side on to a share of the points on the opening day.

Money, who has been critical of some sections of the fans in the past, was delighted with the rousing atmosphere for the start of the new season.

“I thought it was a great game for the supporters and both sets of supporters were terrific and created a great atmosphere in the stadium,” said Money.

“Whatever people think of me that’s all I’ve ever asked for. Keep behind the team and keep cheering them.

“We will always give our best, we will always work hard and do everything we can.

“Sometimes the football is good and sometimes it’s not but it’s not for the want of trying or working or planning.

“We just want everyone to stay with us and I thought the fans gave great support.”

Money paid tribute to his side’s character after they fought back from a goal behind to earn an opening-day point.

Money admitted his players struggled to cope with the Cumbrians’ system in the first half as they endured a difficult return to League One.

But he was delighted with the response of his team after a half-time re-shuffle inspired a spirited second-half fightback.

“I think we have to remember that we’ve played a team who are going to be certainly in the top six,” said Money.

“I thought in the first 30 minutes they really hit it off.

“They play a different way - 4-3-1-2 - which is difficult to deal with. It’s not something we came across last year and we struggled to get the grips with the shape in the first half.”

[Stu]

“Whatever people think of me"

I'm not trying to be picky here, but people think he is a very good, very successful Walsall manager and are fully supportive of him.

That above comment seems to think that some folk really dislike him, which couldn't be further from the truth. Some folk have their criticisms of him, but even they will admit he is a good manager who has been very successful. I don't think there is a single fan who wants rid or dislikes him.

He reminds me of an ex of mine who could get a bit paranoid too.

[Magic Man Fan]

“Whatever people think of me"

I'm not trying to be picky here, but people think he is a very good, very successful Walsall manager and are fully supportive of him.

That above comment seems to think that some folk really dislike him, which couldn't be further from the truth. Some folk have their criticisms of him, but even they will admit he is a good manager who has been very successful. I don't think there is a single fan who wants rid or dislikes him.

He reminds me of an ex of mine who could get a bit paranoid too.

I daren't say that when KJC posted it earlier as I didn't want to be accused of ignoring all the positive things he said. :roll:

[Ian Gittins]

Stu, I think you ARE being picky there, extremely so. A lot of fans have wanted Money to stop knocking them and appreciate them more, and that is exactly what he is doing there, lavishing praise in fact - so let's not pick on a minor sub-clause and start analysing it for negative import!

Did your ex look like him as well? :)

[Magic Man Fan]

Stu, I think you ARE being picky there, extremely so. A lot of fans have wanted Money to stop knocking them and appreciate them more, and that is exactly what he is doing there, lavishing praise in fact - so let's not pick on a minor sub-clause and start analysing it for negative import!

Did your ex look like him as well? :)

But like the comment last week Ian it is another part of a sentence that was not necessary. This argument will continue every time he speaks to the press.

All of the positives could have been said without that one line and this time it wasn't with provocation from a journo because it's all on Saddlers World.

[Ian Gittins]

Mark, it's only true that "the argument will continue" because people keep over-scrutinising his comments for the slightest hint of negativity and then making an issue of it on here.

Money said "both sets of supporters were terrific" and "I thought the fans gave great support.” These are totally unambiguous, positive comments. The comment you and Stu don't like was, if anything, self-effacing.

No offence, but I think you're slightly obsessive on this point - Money isn't trying to wage war on the fans, merely issuing the famous Geordie rallying cry, "Stop moaning and get behind the lads." More power to him.

[Magic Man Fan]

Mark, it's only true that "the argument will continue" because people keep over-scrutinising his comments for the slightest hint of negativity and then making an issue of it on here.

Money said "both sets of supporters were terrific" and "I thought the fans gave great support.” These are totally unambiguous, positive comments. The comment you and Stu don't like was, if anything, self-effacing.

No offence, but I think you're slightly obsessive on this point - Money isn't trying to wage war on the fans, merely issuing the famous Geordie rallying cry, "Stop moaning and get behind the lads." More power to him.

It's still a case of you can't see what we're saying though Ian.

I know exactly what he was saying, he's taking the pressure off the players onto himself but he didn't need to say it like all the other comments. He's trying to create the divide. But I maintain that one line was not needed. The rest of his statement would have the rallying call you suggest without him saying it.

It is not us obsessed it is HE who is obsessed and it's very childish in my opinion.

[Stu]

What MMF says...

Its the pointless comments, there is no need for it. I get the impression that he really feels disliked and un-appreciated, which couldn't be further from the truth. I get the feeling he seems to want adulation or hero-worship.

You say I'm just picking out one line, thats doesn't change the fact he said it. I really don't understand his problem to be honest.

DD, if you read this, yes your style of football was boring last year, but we still love you for getting us promoted, your still appreciated and I'm glad you signed a new deal. Have a toke on something that Wracky can probably get hold of and relax...

[Cannock]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

By the way Stu, it's "you're" still appreciated

[Ian Gittins]

I can see what you're saying, Mark, I just don't agree with it. I honestly think you have to come from a pretty bizarre angle to be offended by our manager saying "Whatever people think of me", which seems to be the sum total of his crime on this occasion.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid.

Just been evading work by watching Peterborough v Southampton on Sky. Cracking game, and typical Keates performance: hard-working, seemed to get passed by a bit in midfield, but some truly Beckham-esque dead ball deliveries. I still agree with you that Sonner is the better bet, but must admit Peterborough looked pretty useful.

[Stu]

I can see what you're saying, Mark, I just don't agree with it. I honestly think you have to come from a pretty bizarre angle to be offended by our manager saying "Whatever people think of me", which seems to be the sum total of his crime on this occasion.

And there in lies what your missing... Nobody is offended by it, I'm not, I don't see MMF saying that either.

What we're saying is we don't understand why he says it...

Cannock, I didn't think NMFE types were keen on correcting spelling and grammar? :wink:

[Registered Saddler]

I can see what you're saying, Mark, I just don't agree with it. I honestly think you have to come from a pretty bizarre angle to be offended by our manager saying "Whatever people think of me", which seems to be the sum total of his crime on this occasion.

And there in lies what your missing... Nobody is offended by it, I'm not, I don't see MMF saying that either.

What we're saying is we don't understand why he says it...

Cannock, I didn't think NMFE types were keen on correcting spelling and grammar? :wink:

13% of the people who voted on MMF's poll were 'not keen' on Money. If that's a representative sample, then that's about 700 home fans in the crowd on Saturday. I assume its that (healthily-sized) group that he is addressing. He clearly recognises that there's a whole lot of people who haven't taken to him and doesn't want that personal opinion to get in the way of how they back the team. What I don't understand why anyone would get so hot under the collar about him saying that?

[Stu]

13% of the people who voted on MMF's poll were 'not keen' on Money. If that's a representative sample, then that's about 700 home fans in the crowd on Saturday. I assume its that (healthily-sized) group that he is addressing. He clearly recognises that there's a whole lot of people who haven't taken to him and doesn't want that personal opinion to get in the way of how they back the team. What I don't understand why anyone would get so hot under the collar about him saying that?

For starters, define "not keen", I voted "not keen" but that was because of his style of play, not him as a person. That "not keen" could very well change when I see a more attractive style of play, further more, although I voted not keen, it doesn't mean I want to see him gone, I don't.

Secondary, I wouldn't say UTS is representative to be honest.

Thirdly, how many people voted "not keen" as opposed to a percentage?

Fourthly, I repeat again, nobody is getting offended by it, nobody is getting hot under the collar about it. We're just puzzled at why he keeps mentioning it when he really is very well supported.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

13% of the people who voted on MMF's poll were 'not keen' on Money. If that's a representative sample, then that's about 700 home fans in the crowd on Saturday. I assume its that (healthily-sized) group that he is addressing. He clearly recognises that there's a whole lot of people who haven't taken to him and doesn't want that personal opinion to get in the way of how they back the team. What I don't understand why anyone would get so hot under the collar about him saying that?

For starters, define "not keen", I voted "not keen" but that was because of his style of play, not him as a person. That "not keen" could very well change when I see a more attractive style of play, further more, although I voted not keen, it doesn't mean I want to see him gone, I don't.

Secondary, I wouldn't say UTS is representative to be honest.

Thirdly, how many people voted "not keen" as opposed to a percentage?

Fourthly, I repeat again, nobody is getting offended by it, nobody is getting hot under the collar about it. We're just puzzled at why he keeps mentioning it when he really is very well supported.

You didn't hear the boos at half time from the back of the Floors 2 Go stand then? Not very mnany at all - but they were there.

[tinned]

13% of the people who voted on MMF's poll were 'not keen' on Money. If that's a representative sample, then that's about 700 home fans in the crowd on Saturday. I assume its that (healthily-sized) group that he is addressing. He clearly recognises that there's a whole lot of people who haven't taken to him and doesn't want that personal opinion to get in the way of how they back the team. What I don't understand why anyone would get so hot under the collar about him saying that?

For starters, define "not keen", I voted "not keen" but that was because of his style of play, not him as a person. That "not keen" could very well change when I see a more attractive style of play, further more, although I voted not keen, it doesn't mean I want to see him gone, I don't.

Secondary, I wouldn't say UTS is representative to be honest.

Thirdly, how many people voted "not keen" as opposed to a percentage?

Fourthly, I repeat again, nobody is getting offended by it, nobody is getting hot under the collar about it. We're just puzzled at why he keeps mentioning it when he really is very well supported.

You didn't hear the boos at half time from the back of the Floors 2 Go stand then? Not very mnany at all - but they were there.

Surely the boo's were for the dire performance, rather than directed at Money? Not that I joined in, or even condone it.

[Duke]

13% of the people who voted on MMF's poll were 'not keen' on Money. If that's a representative sample, then that's about 700 home fans in the crowd on Saturday. I assume its that (healthily-sized) group that he is addressing. He clearly recognises that there's a whole lot of people who haven't taken to him and doesn't want that personal opinion to get in the way of how they back the team. What I don't understand why anyone would get so hot under the collar about him saying that?

For starters, define "not keen", I voted "not keen" but that was because of his style of play, not him as a person. That "not keen" could very well change when I see a more attractive style of play, further more, although I voted not keen, it doesn't mean I want to see him gone, I don't.

Secondary, I wouldn't say UTS is representative to be honest.

Thirdly, how many people voted "not keen" as opposed to a percentage?

Fourthly, I repeat again, nobody is getting offended by it, nobody is getting hot under the collar about it. We're just puzzled at why he keeps mentioning it when he really is very well supported.

You didn't hear the boos at half time from the back of the Floors 2 Go stand then? Not very mnany at all - but they were there.

Had enough of that last season , thats why I've changed my seat.

[Stu]

13% of the people who voted on MMF's poll were 'not keen' on Money. If that's a representative sample, then that's about 700 home fans in the crowd on Saturday. I assume its that (healthily-sized) group that he is addressing. He clearly recognises that there's a whole lot of people who haven't taken to him and doesn't want that personal opinion to get in the way of how they back the team. What I don't understand why anyone would get so hot under the collar about him saying that?

For starters, define "not keen", I voted "not keen" but that was because of his style of play, not him as a person. That "not keen" could very well change when I see a more attractive style of play, further more, although I voted not keen, it doesn't mean I want to see him gone, I don't.

Secondary, I wouldn't say UTS is representative to be honest.

Thirdly, how many people voted "not keen" as opposed to a percentage?

Fourthly, I repeat again, nobody is getting offended by it, nobody is getting hot under the collar about it. We're just puzzled at why he keeps mentioning it when he really is very well supported.

You didn't hear the boos at half time from the back of the Floors 2 Go stand then? Not very mnany at all - but they were there.

I sat in that stand and no...

And even if they were, as said, they were directed at a performance where we were 2nd best by a country mile, not directed at the manager. So what's your point?

[Neil Ravenscroft]

13% of the people who voted on MMF's poll were 'not keen' on Money. If that's a representative sample, then that's about 700 home fans in the crowd on Saturday. I assume its that (healthily-sized) group that he is addressing. He clearly recognises that there's a whole lot of people who haven't taken to him and doesn't want that personal opinion to get in the way of how they back the team. What I don't understand why anyone would get so hot under the collar about him saying that?

For starters, define "not keen", I voted "not keen" but that was because of his style of play, not him as a person. That "not keen" could very well change when I see a more attractive style of play, further more, although I voted not keen, it doesn't mean I want to see him gone, I don't.

Secondary, I wouldn't say UTS is representative to be honest.

Thirdly, how many people voted "not keen" as opposed to a percentage?

Fourthly, I repeat again, nobody is getting offended by it, nobody is getting hot under the collar about it. We're just puzzled at why he keeps mentioning it when he really is very well supported.

You didn't hear the boos at half time from the back of the Floors 2 Go stand then? Not very mnany at all - but they were there.

Surely the boo's were for the dire performance, rather than directed at Money? Not that I joined in, or even condone it.

But that's the point, isn't it? How can you tell? It's all a team effort anyway and, if you do that to the team, you do it to the manager, and vice versa.

[SheffieldSaddler]

13% of the people who voted on MMF's poll were 'not keen' on Money. If that's a representative sample, then that's about 700 home fans in the crowd on Saturday. I assume its that (healthily-sized) group that he is addressing. He clearly recognises that there's a whole lot of people who haven't taken to him and doesn't want that personal opinion to get in the way of how they back the team. What I don't understand why anyone would get so hot under the collar about him saying that?

For starters, define "not keen", I voted "not keen" but that was because of his style of play, not him as a person. That "not keen" could very well change when I see a more attractive style of play, further more, although I voted not keen, it doesn't mean I want to see him gone, I don't.

Secondary, I wouldn't say UTS is representative to be honest.

Thirdly, how many people voted "not keen" as opposed to a percentage?

Fourthly, I repeat again, nobody is getting offended by it, nobody is getting hot under the collar about it. We're just puzzled at why he keeps mentioning it when he really is very well supported.

You didn't hear the boos at half time from the back of the Floors 2 Go stand then? Not very mnany at all - but they were there.

They pay their money dont they?
Thus, entitled to give their opinion.

[Magic Man Fan]

13% of the people who voted on MMF's poll were 'not keen' on Money. If that's a representative sample, then that's about 700 home fans in the crowd on Saturday. I assume its that (healthily-sized) group that he is addressing. He clearly recognises that there's a whole lot of people who haven't taken to him and doesn't want that personal opinion to get in the way of how they back the team. What I don't understand why anyone would get so hot under the collar about him saying that?

For starters, define "not keen", I voted "not keen" but that was because of his style of play, not him as a person. That "not keen" could very well change when I see a more attractive style of play, further more, although I voted not keen, it doesn't mean I want to see him gone, I don't.

Secondary, I wouldn't say UTS is representative to be honest.

Thirdly, how many people voted "not keen" as opposed to a percentage?

Fourthly, I repeat again, nobody is getting offended by it, nobody is getting hot under the collar about it. We're just puzzled at why he keeps mentioning it when he really is very well supported.

You didn't hear the boos at half time from the back of the Floors 2 Go stand then? Not very mnany at all - but they were there.

They pay their money dont they?
Thus, entitled to give their opinion.

I think that's what Money struggles to understand. Whether he likes it or not, football fans will be fickle. And as I've already said he's really in the wrong job if he expects total praise all the time for himself and the players. He should take pride in the job he is doing and look at the league table last year for congratulations and the pat on the back he seems to need. He can do the same this year as I think we'll have a good position in the league this season, he can then look at his pay slip when he gets a move elsewhere to a bigger club which will represent congratulations. That is of course until fans of the bigger club expect the Earth, far more than Walsall fans do then he loses his rag again and is gone in 5 minutes and has to start again at another Walsall type club.

I'd just like to confirm I'm not offended by what DD says at all, I just don't understand it, there's no logic to it whatsoever. It certainly will offend others who don't rate him as much as a manager as I do and will be used in evidence in court :) if things start to go wrong...and that will have an adverse effect on the team and results and the success of the club I support so I'd rather he didn't say them at all.

[tinned]

Whether or not some fans should be offended by DD's comments, you can't deny some are. Therefore DD should be careful what he says as it's having a negative effect (intended or not).

[philthesaddler]

The first half was on a par with some of the performances under Merson - little cohesion, looking totally unprofessional, players out of position, struggling to keep the ball and looking totally outclassed.

I think we should start worrying If people stop booing, moaning and worrying when we perform like that.