Leyton Orient (A) League - Saturday 18th August 2007

[WFC_Rob]

Priestly's report isn't far away from what I would say about the match.

I came away from the match very frustrated as the inferior team won. Orient were evidence of why you should look to bring in decent strikers even if that means you may have to skimp around elsewhere. Gray looked good and took his goal well, albeit when completely unmarked. A player apparently out of our price range.

Carneiro had a decent game outside of the oppositions penalty area. His first touch was good, he held the ball up very well and his link up with the midfield, with his back to goal impressed me. He was put through one-on-one and hesitated for too long to allow their defender to make a last-ditch tackle and the sitter which has been mentioned elsewhere was disappointing. The stick he got for that though was unbelievable and frankly, embarassing. Had Tommy Mooney or Martin Butler missed that chance, the fans would have been infinitely more sympathetic. Walsall's latest boo boy has been well and truly identified. I don't doubt that we need to replace him in the starting line up if we're going to do well, but to give him as much stick as today will ruin his Walsall career before it gets started. Far be it from me to mention any names, but Doffer made himself look a bit silly to say the least as far as I'm concerned.

On the plus side, I thought Darren Wrack looked as close to his former self as I've seen for a long time. He looked sharp and quick and was arguably man of the match.
Also, it's been a while since we had two fullbacks as good as the ones we've got now. Weston is definitely an improvement on what we had previously.

Sonner was far from poor. He appeared to lack a bit of sharpness in the last 10 minutes and played a couple of wayward passes but other than that, he was good. Dobson also had his best game for a while, which may suggest that he's better used away from home than at home.

Ishmel came on and did what everyone knew he would do. Got the ball, ran down the wing, put a couple of crosses in, won a couple of corners and got booked for an erratic challenge. The pleasing aspect of his performance was the way he sprinted back to defend when they hit us on the break and made two very important challenges. His footballing education has undoubtedly done him the world of good since DD arrived, but now is surely the time to bite the bullet and give him a run in the team.

[mel58]

As people have already said - it was one of those games that we should have got something from.

In my opinion we could have been in contol and had the game wrapped up before half-time with anything approaching clinical finishing. We played some excellent football; very positive for an away game, but despite that we never convinced up front.

Cc's miss was appalling but I'm not going to crucify him for it. Mooney missed one from closer in from a cross earlier on, unless my memory fails me.

They had no answer to Demontagnac when he came on. I can understand the idea of bringing him on towards the end of a game - he gives tiring defenders a new problem, and ups the pace of the game, whilst there is less time for to him to be wound up by the inevitable illegal attention that will be focussed on him. I feel he is worth a start. When he applies himself, the kid is no one trick pony. He should run a game and he should have too much talent for most at this level. Whether Money is still not confident that he could remain on the field for 90 minutes, I don't know. I just know that, at present, we don't have too many aces to play.

[Pedagogue]

Ince - excellent double save at the penalty. Could have done better with their goal. Otherwise o.k.
Weston - very promising debut. Why was he taken off? Tired? Injured?
Roper - lucky to be in as Gerrard has done nothing wrong. Made a few errors but showed signs of returning to usual self.
Boertien - another very competent performance. His crossing of the ball sometimes left a bit to be desired but he looks an excellent signing
Hall - started dreadfully but then got steadily better. He is no longer capable of beating a player but showed the nous to adapt his game to enable him to contribute to the team.
Dobson - I don't rate Dobson at all but this was one of his better games. He did not deserve to be taken off.
Sonner - just as Dobson appears to be incapable of passing a ball more than four yards, so Sonner seems incapable of passing it less than forty! His game will improve when he tries to to do the simple thing quickly, accurately and well, instead of looking for the long-range 'killer' ball, every time.
Wrack - as with Dobson, I am not a Wrack fan but this was the best game I have seen him play for some time. Played wide at first, then in the middle and finished at right-back.
Mooney - worked hard but not one of his better games.
Carneiro - I admire Priestley Saddler's loyal defence of Carlos, above, but it is totally unjustified, imho. This was one of the most ineffective, inept, clueless, useless performances I have ever seen from a Walsall striker , in the last 52 years! - and, believe me, I've seen a few! Think Barrowman, Fitzgerald, Banton - and then some! I definitely do not condone barracking of any player but this display was truly dreadful. In fairness, this should come as no surprise and quite why anyone expected anything different is beyond me. He is, at 32, too old to be starting out to face the physical demands on a striker in English football and his goalscoring record on the continent is very poor - so why did we expect him to be the answer to our prayers? In that respect, I feel sorry for him. He is being asked to do a job, of which he is never going to be capable - a waste of a wage.
Bradley - a promising cameo, if a little nervy (understandably).
Demontagnac - supported by the "Demontagnac Massive, innit?" in the stand, he showed why excessive hopes rest on his shoulders until we recruit another striker. His caution was a little harsh as his behaviour and self-control were excellent.

Team play - very encouraging. Dicky has been as good as his word as we now play a more constructive style and less of the 'hoofball' which so annoyed/frustrated/bored us, last season. We deserved at least a draw and I am convinced that we will soon climb the table when we replace that Portugese duffer, up front.

[Willy Nilly]

Did anyone else hear the Walsall fan, 'Ian', rip into Carlos on WM after the game? :shock:

I was driving up the M1, near Rugby, and just managed to get reception from WM.

I got the impression that 'Ian' wasn't too impressed with Mr. Carneiro today. :lol:


I thought we played well today. Bossed the game totally first 30 minutes, and, like a few others have mentioned, I feel we are just a good striker away from being a force in this league.

Thanks to :shock: offer for the off-field entertainment too.... very funny, although what it can do to help the team when they need our support as much as ever, I don't have the answer to.

[Carlos Carneiro]

i will win fans of Walsall over

[Darlosaddler]

i will win fans of Walsall over

Not playing like that you wo :wink:

[Cannock]

Good summing up Leamore although your criticism of Sonner was pretty harsh. Played well and with a decent strike force would have won comfortably.

I think Doffer was a bit vexed :lol: :lol:

I also heard that bloke Ian (bit of a gay name IMHO) on WM. What a moron. Someone said it was Asps.,,

[Pedagogue]

Did anyone else hear the Walsall fan, 'Ian', rip into Carlos on WM after the game? :shock:

I was driving up the M1, near Rugby, and just managed to get reception from WM.

I got the impression that 'Ian' wasn't too impressed with Mr. Carneiro today. :lol:

Yes, I heard that, too. He described Carneiro's performance as "indescribably dreadful" (isn't that an oxymoron?). Prior to that, Dicky Dosh was interviewed and he claimed that (i) Carneiro had played well (cue instant, simultaneous, raucous laughter from everyone in our car) and (ii) when Butler is fit, we will have a choice of the best strike force in League One, whichever pair plays! Bullsh*t!!!!!

I like the way that DD does not blab constantly to the media and does not publicly denigrate our players (unlike a certain other recent manager of ours!) but please, please, please, Dicky - DO NOT INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE! We may not have UEFA Pro Coaching Licences or Academy Director's Licences but we are NOT blind and not all of us are stupid! When a player is crud, it is all too obvious. Please do not attempt to defend the indefensible!

[Duke]

Very encouraging peformance , very disappionting result , I would be more concerned if we were not making chances , it will come.

UP THE SADDLERS

[Cannock]

'kinell

[Over The Moon]

Good summing up Leamore although your criticism of Sonner was pretty harsh. Played well and with a decent strike force would have won comfortably.

I think Doffer was a bit vexed :lol: :lol:

I also heard that bloke Ian (bit of a gay name IMHO) on WM. What a moron. Someone said it was Asps.,,

I think that's a understatement i don't think Doffer rates Carlos very much :wink:

[Lord Griff]

O's fan here. I thought Caneiro or whatever his name was utter pony. He wasnt able to grasp how to challenge for the ball in the air, and was facing our centre halves every time he jumped.

I thought Mooney played intelligantly, as per usual, but didnt pose a massive goal threat.

Clayton Ince, who I have always thought to be a bit dodgy, was excellent and your MOTM IMO. Not just because of the penalty save, but I thought he was very commanding overall.

The young wide player who was brought on in the second half was different gravy, but he still seems a bit raw and was very rash with what was a very presentable chance in injury time.

All in all, we definately a tad fortunate to win but I'll take it. I still think it will be a hard struggle for us this season, purely because our squad is so thin. I am sure there are four teams that will be worse than Walsall, so I expect you guys to be safe, probably fairly comfortably, by the end of the season.

Hope you had a safe journey home and best of luck for the remainder of the campaign.

BTW, I have played at your ground.

[BathSaddler]

Just got back, having had an enjoyable day despite the result.

Positives:

A strong second half performance
The Ince penalty save
The debut of Weston
The back four as a whole were pretty solid - Weston/Boertien look as good a pair of fullbacks as we've had in a while
Sonner/Dobson were steady and dominant
We created chances - I lost count of the number of quality crosses we 'whipped in'
Ishy, the best attacking player on view by miles.

Negatives:

A Poor first half performance
Paul Hall in the first half - improved markedly in the second though
Sonner's midfield passes in the last 5 minutes when we were trying to keep the pressure on - too casual by half
Caniero - how anyone can defend him is beyond me: Leamore Saddler summed it up pretty well. God, he's worse than I thought, even in my worst nightmares. Absolute crud in every way [and that was before his 'miss' :roll: ].


Based on that performance I really believe we are a proven striker away from being half decent. The question is, can we find/afford one?

[Asps]

i will win fans of Walsall over

No you won't because you're a useless, hopeless waste of space who couldn't hit a barn door with a bango from 6 inches.

Your performance was the worst I've witnessed for years & thats taking into account Banton, Barrowman, Bradbury, Fitzgerald, Bamber, Teasdale and any other sub standard centre forwards seen Walsall.

You can't head the ball - as you don't bother looking where it is , just run into an opposing player everytime.

You can't win the ball, because you manage to find ice patches to slip over on on the Matchroom Stadium pitch in the cold depths of August.

You can't finish: 5 yards out, open goal, 2 seconds to compose yourself and slot it home & you wellie it 2 yards wide.

You contribute nothing and are are burden to the team.

DD on WM "Carlos had a good game and is gelling well with Mooney"
Don't insult our intelligence DD. Wake up and smell the coffee. I know what I saw today.

Another useless DD/Suntan man signing - Carlos the JokeAll will never make a centre forward in a million years.

Sort it DD, cut your losses, pay him off & ship him back to Portugal.I'll pay the frigging freight charge.

If Bonsor won't give you the funds to get someone in like Byfield, then have the balls to start with Troy Deeney, but you won't do that will you because your contempt & arrogance towards the fans, because he's your Carlos, your signing,you'll continue to pick him.

Doffer fair play to you mate, amazingly you lost it more than I did today,I know what you were feeling - I was raging too & that happy clapper in the McGregor cap telling you to pack it in and get the behind the team suffered the venting of my spleen for a good few minutes after the rumpus died down. Muppet.

So many positives today: good play, Weston looking good, Ishy coming on & doing his stuff, Mooney working his row out doing a midfielders role as well as a strikers role, all to be undone by the most inept centre forward performance I've witnessed in my living memory.

GO HOME YOU FRAUD

[wolfchild]

I didn't go to Orient, but did go last week - I was prepared to give Carlos a go even though his performance last week v Carlisle was very poor and maybe it was opening day nerves etc (In fact, first half last week, we looked very nervous as a team). My views on Carlos have been confirmed by plethora of posts about his performance v Orient, but maybe we have to give him a bit more of a chance? Maybe from the bench - might focus his mind a bit !

[Welsh_Saddler]

I wasn't at the game, but I was at Swansea - and I refer my honourable friends to the comment I made about Carneiro.

"He isn't fit to lace Jorge Leitao's boots".

Based on what I've read about his performance at Leyton Orient I stand by that assessment. :!:

[Stan P]

Caneiro was the pits yesterday dreadful worse than Barrowman and thats saying something but what i want to know is where is this strikeforce Bonsor said in Excuse & Star we would proud off? yesterday we was an embrassement an 36 year old grandad and Portguese donkey we are in for long hard season if these pair carry on and well done to Doffer having a go at Caneiro paying £20 of well hard dosh for that pile of $ hite.

[Registered Saddler]

Well, just so long as we all agree on who the new boo boy is, then. I mean, woe betide our so-called supporters actually support someone for more than five minutes or actually allow anyone to make a mistake for once. I shall be in full voice to boo him the moment he steps on to the pitch against Swansea next week (if selected). For players for whom confidence may be a problem, barracking them is almost definitely the best way to help.

[Ned_Kelly]

Well, just so long as we all agree on who the new boo boy is, then. I mean, woe betide our so-called supporters actually support someone for more than five minutes or actually allow anyone to make a mistake for once. I shall be in full voice to boo him the moment he steps on to the pitch against Swansea next week (if selected). For players for whom confidence may be a problem, barracking them is almost definitely the best way to help.

I foresee this 1 in particular going very bad very quickly

[Bernie]

I wonder how many of those barracking Carneiro used to have a go at Butler when he was first at Walsall.

No matter how bad Carneiro is for Walsall Football Club, he is not as bad as those who boo him.

[cal wfc fan]

Is he worse than Wright then?

[BathSaddler]

Well, just so long as we all agree on who the new boo boy is, then. I mean, woe betide our so-called supporters actually support someone for more than five minutes or actually allow anyone to make a mistake for once. I shall be in full voice to boo him the moment he steps on to the pitch against Swansea next week (if selected). For players for whom confidence may be a problem, barracking them is almost definitely the best way to help.

That's not what people are saying. He was inept, incompetent and clueless way before his horrendous miss. He should not have been on the pitch. Supporters have a right to vent what they feel, as long as it does not generate into personal abuse, which if it did is way, way out of line. From where I was sitting, I thought supporters were either pretty patient or suffered in silence.

[Asps]

I wonder how many of those barracking Carneiro used to have a go at Butler when he was first at Walsall.

No matter how bad Carneiro is for Walsall Football Club, he is not as bad as those who boo him.

& not as bad as the happy clappers who are willing to put with such a desperately bad player.

[SaigonSaddler]

Well, just so long as we all agree on who the new boo boy is, then. I mean, woe betide our so-called supporters actually support someone for more than five minutes or actually allow anyone to make a mistake for once. I shall be in full voice to boo him the moment he steps on to the pitch against Swansea next week (if selected). For players for whom confidence may be a problem, barracking them is almost definitely the best way to help.

I foresee this 1 in particular going very bad very quickly

I think we should boo everyone equally. Apart from especially poor performances which should receive more vocal attention, perhaps a 'boo-ometer' can be installed and some human effluent in a box awarded to the individual getting the most unhappy reaction.

[Flemish Saddler]

can't give my opinion a lot but saw this one and i think we'll have a difficult season. Ince was great on the penalty but he ain't sure by high balls. Roper wasn't on his best but seen him before and that'll be OK in a few weeks. Boertien was decent and i think he'll be ok for this season. Hall started awful but improved a lot in second half. Sonner worked hard but his passes can improve a lot and please don't let him take the corners. Not one was threatening!!! Mooney worked hard but isn't the striker we need this season. Ishy should have played all game even that holds a risk for a red card (he was brilliant and the only one that even tried to shoot on target). The Portuguese who I don't even wanna learn his name: AWFUL!!!!!! doesn't even look at the ball when he's coming to him (deserved that yellow only the way the ref gave it to him wasn't correct)., if that's the best Dicky has I'm afraid League 2 will be the fact after this season. If you can't score, you can't win and yesterday should have been 3 points. Over and out.
I wanna end positive: there's certainly a future for this team if we would have some decent strikers!!! And Sheff: nice meeting you (again :oops: ). As for you Toffo!!! And all the others of course. Hope you recover soon Ucow!!

[Pedagogue]

Well, just so long as we all agree on who the new boo boy is, then. I mean, woe betide our so-called supporters actually support someone for more than five minutes or actually allow anyone to make a mistake for once. I shall be in full voice to boo him the moment he steps on to the pitch against Swansea next week (if selected). For players for whom confidence may be a problem, barracking them is almost definitely the best way to help.

That's not what people are saying. He was inept, incompetent and clueless way before his horrendous miss. He should not have been on the pitch. Supporters have a right to vent what they feel, as long as it does not generate into personal abuse, which if it did is way, way out of line. From where I was sitting, I thought supporters were either pretty patient or suffered in silence.

Spot on, BathSaddler.

RS - the Saddlers' fans were, in general, NOT barracking him. Remarkably, he got very little 'flak'. Quite how long this tolerance will prevail, is another matter, of course! You needed to see the performance to believe it. He has GOT to be dropped after that. Troy Deeney is not ready yet but he has got to be an improvement on the Portugese clown. He could gain valuable experience alongside Mooney and/or Butler. Better still - unfasten the padlock on your wallet, Jeff! :D

[Ned_Kelly]

can't give my opinion a lot but saw this one and i think we'll have a difficult season. Ince was great on the penalty but he ain't sure by high balls. Roper wasn't on his best but seen him before and that'll be OK in a few weeks. Boertien was decent and i think he'll be ok for this season. Hall started awful but improved a lot in second half. Sonner worked hard but his passes can improve a lot and please don't let him take the corners. Not one was threatening!!! Mooney worked hard but isn't the striker we need this season. Ishy should have played all game even that holds a risk for a red card (he was brilliant and the only one that even tried to shoot on target). The Portuguese who I don't even wanna learn his name: AWFUL!!!!!! doesn't even look at the ball when he's coming to him (deserved that yellow only the way the ref gave it to him wasn't correct)., if that's the best Dicky has I'm afraid League 2 will be the fact after this season. If you can't score, you can't win and yesterday should have been 3 points. Over and out.
I wanna end positive: there's certainly a future for this team if we would have some decent strikers!!! And Sheff: nice meeting you (again :oops: ). As for you Toffo!!! And all the others of course. Hope you recover soon Ucow!!

Good to see you lot over here again Bart. Glad you got back ok. Hope to see you all again soon :D

[Bernie]

I wonder how many of those barracking Carneiro used to have a go at Butler when he was first at Walsall.

No matter how bad Carneiro is for Walsall Football Club, he is not as bad as those who boo him.

& not as bad as the happy clappers who are willing to put with such a desperately bad player.

First time that I have ever been called a happy clapper. :?

I am not happy with some of the signings DD has made - in fact I am rather sceptical of most of them - but does anyone want to hear DD again blame the fans for the failure of some of his signings as he did last year?

Teams win a lot more matches at home than away because they benefit from being in a supportive environment. We should not contribute to the failure of our team by being too negative at the matches.

Now what we say on this board is quite a different matter . . . . .

[Bristol Fan]

I wonder how many of those barracking Carneiro used to have a go at Butler when he was first at Walsall.

No matter how bad Carneiro is for Walsall Football Club, he is not as bad as those who boo him.

& not as bad as the happy clappers who are willing to put with such a desperately bad player.

First time that I have ever been called a happy clapper. :?

I am not happy with some of the signings DD has made - in fact I am rather sceptical of most of them - but does anyone want to hear DD again blame the fans for the failure of some of his signings as he did last year?

Teams win a lot more matches at home than away because they benefit from being in a supportive environment. We should not contribute to the failure of our team by being too negative at the matches.

Now what we say on this board is quite a different matter . . . . .

Yes. I wasn't there yesterday - was Carneiro really booed? I've only seen him once (at the Carlisle game) and he looked to be of the Banton / Barrowman standard (but with nicer hair), but it's not his fault, and booing him is not going to help.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

Most seem to agree that we are a first class striker away from being a decent side,now if you have one
of these they are a valuable asset.I think unless the Byfield deal (if it exists) comes to fruition we will be
doomed to alot more games like today,excellent in defence no punch up front narrow defeats.Sort it JB and DD ASAP.