Stockport County (A) League Tuesday 20/2/07

[philthesaddler]

London Saddler said we played 4-4-2, I don't think so... We lined up 4-3-3, or thats the way it looked to me. We started with 5 defenders on the field, and soon after got an injury to Ropes, who was replaced by a 6th defender in the squad, Pead, not to mention Lyall on the bench. So overall, 7 defenders in the 16 last night. :shock: :shock:

I'd just echo what other people have said really, we were utterly useless, utterly useless. The way we played last night, even Torquay would have beaten us. At the back Gerrard was struggling, Westwood, and Fox couldn't keep possession if their lives depended on it. In midfield Pead and Keates and Dobson were 2nd to everything, when they did get the ball, they were far too slow, lazy and weak.

What really upset me last night was the way we just got embarassed by an ordinary side. It was like the way it was under Merson, turning up, with no chance of winning whatsoever because we simply weren't good enough from start to finish.

Point of note. People who say Stockport were another 'head the ball' or 'hoofball' team, were wrong, they showed us how it should be done with good forward movement, with balls coming in to their feet, using the wings superbly, and creating constant danger.

We were the ones playing hoofball, we were dreadful. Lee Matthews wont make an ounce of difference. The problems lie a lot deeper than just a blip in form, this is now a rut we've got ourselves in to.

What pissed me off even more is that Money seemed to accept it. We've got a team of lazy twonks, and he just sat on his bench all night saying nothing. The opposition manager was on his feet shouting all match, really geeing up his side - we just turned up without a clue, without a chance, without any fight, any will to win the game.

Forget Lee Matthews, something major has got to happen, otherwise this season is in danger of dying. I don't even think we'll make the playoffs unless Money is either sacked or we get a decent coach in to help him, because since Kinsella left, we've struggled big time.

Overall, we were 2nd best all over the field, we were slower than the opposition all over the field, we couldn't keep possession as well as the opposition, and we created one half chance all night, compared to the dozen Stockport created ... We can blame individuals all we like, not one player comes out of last night with credit, not one positive, the problems are deeper than personnel, and im very very quickly going off Richard Money.

[Duke]

The only good news from last night is Swindon, Lincoln and MK all failed to win.
Another disappointing result , the commentary on the OS made the performance sound better than reported on here , but if you don't create chances you won't score goals .
Losing top spot a good thing the pressure is off ? , I don't think so after 3 defeats the pressure is well and truely on .

[Fray Bentos is God!]

If stockport created a dozen good chances im a blonde!

not saying they created less than us because they created more but bloody hell phil this is as much as an exaggeration as you blaming bonser for Darfur and the fall of communism

[sid swifty]

The only good news from last night is Swindon, Lincoln and MK all failed to win.
Another disappointing result , the commentary on the OS made the performance sound better than reported on here , but if you don't create chances you won't score goals .
Losing top spot a good thing the pressure is off ? , I don't think so after 3 defeats the pressure is well and truely on .

Thats been happening for months Dave....other teams losing when we lose...but the thing is we haven't played well for months (and that is the biggest understatement of all time) we have been very poor and very lucky this season...luckily this is a P155 poor league but when we do play the better teams in the league we are toatally out classed...if we are not very careful (and lucky) we will be struggling to stay in the automatic promotion positions...we need attacking midfielders and we needed them on the 1st of january.

[WFC_Rob]

Pead was invisble because most of the time he was back tracking covering for Westwood!.

But what you fail to say is that he was covering for Westwood for no reason! I saw him standing at right back, with Westwood right next to him. There's no excuse for a performance like the one he gave last night.

[sj]

Sid-- do you notice how quiet Neil is during times like these? He must be very busy with that job of his :wink:

[sid swifty]

Sid-- do you notice how quiet Neil is during times like these? He must be very busy with that job of his :wink:

Yes mate :D ...got to watch what i'm saying though because i see him a lot now his son plays for the same cricket team and he might beat me up...we do swap the odd opinion during nets though... :D

[sj]

Sid-- Neil gets carried away and he is so bitter, the grumpy old bugger. Not like me and you, two young little things :wink:

[sid swifty]

Sid-- Neil gets carried away and he is so bitter, the grumpy old bugger. Not like me and you, two young little things :wink:

Oh i dont know sj...i can do grumpy old bugger too... :D

[sj]

Sid-- yes but thats Neils fault he's always having ago at you well thoughtout footballing views

[Kiansmom]

Pead was invisble because most of the time he was back tracking covering for Westwood!.

But what you fail to say is that he was covering for Westwood for no reason! I saw him standing at right back, with Westwood right next to him. There's no excuse for a performance like the one he gave last night.

Westy kept coming too far forward and getting caught out.

[Sadders]

Yet another deeply dissapointing performance as per usual of late. I thought keates was by far the best midfielder by all means he wasnt to his best but he looked like he could beat a man. Dann was composed as usual and was by far our best defender.
butler worked hard and so did sam, ppar looked good first half, but did nothing at all 2nd. Id personally play wracky for an hour satruday he looked like the only payer willing .

[WFC_Rob]

Pead was invisble because most of the time he was back tracking covering for Westwood!.

But what you fail to say is that he was covering for Westwood for no reason! I saw him standing at right back, with Westwood right next to him. There's no excuse for a performance like the one he gave last night.

Westy kept coming too far forward and getting caught out.

So you'd prefer he stayed on the edge of our own penalty area when we're losing 1-0 would you? I don't really know what you mean when you say he was 'getting caught out'. Things like that are a result of other players trying to chip in with their attempts at creating chances because we have no-one in midfield who'll do it. We were left short at the back a couple of times when Dann pushed forward too.

[Kiansmom]

Pead was invisble because most of the time he was back tracking covering for Westwood!.

But what you fail to say is that he was covering for Westwood for no reason! I saw him standing at right back, with Westwood right next to him. There's no excuse for a performance like the one he gave last night.

Westy kept coming too far forward and getting caught out.

So you'd prefer he stayed on the edge of our own penalty area when we're losing 1-0 would you? I don't really know what you mean when you say he was 'getting caught out'. Things like that are a result of other players trying to chip in with their attempts at creating chances because we have no-one in midfield who'll do it. We were left short at the back a couple of times when Dann pushed forward too.

It's all very well going forward, but you have to have the pace to get back something Westy doesn't have

[WFC_Rob]

Pead was invisble because most of the time he was back tracking covering for Westwood!.

But what you fail to say is that he was covering for Westwood for no reason! I saw him standing at right back, with Westwood right next to him. There's no excuse for a performance like the one he gave last night.

Westy kept coming too far forward and getting caught out.

So you'd prefer he stayed on the edge of our own penalty area when we're losing 1-0 would you? I don't really know what you mean when you say he was 'getting caught out'. Things like that are a result of other players trying to chip in with their attempts at creating chances because we have no-one in midfield who'll do it. We were left short at the back a couple of times when Dann pushed forward too.

It's all very well going forward, but you have to have the pace to get back something Westy doesn't have

Where are you going with this argument? Westwood is a defender who defends. We're 1-0 down and chasing the game - of course he's going to push further forward. And of course that's a risk defensively. The problem is, with no creativity in midfield, we resort to just piling men forward in the hope that we'll get a lucky break. If your mate Pead was any good defensively, he'd be playing at right back, rather than being the invisible man in midfield.

[Kiansmom]

Pead was invisble because most of the time he was back tracking covering for Westwood!.

But what you fail to say is that he was covering for Westwood for no reason! I saw him standing at right back, with Westwood right next to him. There's no excuse for a performance like the one he gave last night.

Westy kept coming too far forward and getting caught out.

So you'd prefer he stayed on the edge of our own penalty area when we're losing 1-0 would you? I don't really know what you mean when you say he was 'getting caught out'. Things like that are a result of other players trying to chip in with their attempts at creating chances because we have no-one in midfield who'll do it. We were left short at the back a couple of times when Dann pushed forward too.

It's all very well going forward, but you have to have the pace to get back something Westy doesn't have

Where are you going with this argument? Westwood is a defender who defends. We're 1-0 down and chasing the game - of course he's going to push further forward. And of course that's a risk defensively. The problem is, with no creativity in midfield, we resort to just piling men forward in the hope that we'll get a lucky break. If your mate Pead was any good defensively, he'd be playing at right back, rather than being the invisible man in midfield.

whatever, really can't be bothered

[Surrey Saddler]

well after being in denial for most of the season it seems people are begining to wake up to the facts...(1)...you can count on one hand virtually the times we have outplayed a team this season...(2) DD made a big mistake not getting at least 1 attacking midfielder in the January transfer window...(3)the guy doesn't understand the concept of "ENTERTAINMENT" (4)...I think he will take us to div 1 this season but not as champions and maybe even via the play-offs....(5)...His biggest mistake and one that will come back and haunt him is the way he mouthed off and blamed the fans for everything just the last few days have seen more and more fans having a go at him.

That's right Sid, especially points 1 and 3

[WFC_Rob]

Pead was invisble because most of the time he was back tracking covering for Westwood!.

But what you fail to say is that he was covering for Westwood for no reason! I saw him standing at right back, with Westwood right next to him. There's no excuse for a performance like the one he gave last night.

Westy kept coming too far forward and getting caught out.

So you'd prefer he stayed on the edge of our own penalty area when we're losing 1-0 would you? I don't really know what you mean when you say he was 'getting caught out'. Things like that are a result of other players trying to chip in with their attempts at creating chances because we have no-one in midfield who'll do it. We were left short at the back a couple of times when Dann pushed forward too.

It's all very well going forward, but you have to have the pace to get back something Westy doesn't have

Where are you going with this argument? Westwood is a defender who defends. We're 1-0 down and chasing the game - of course he's going to push further forward. And of course that's a risk defensively. The problem is, with no creativity in midfield, we resort to just piling men forward in the hope that we'll get a lucky break. If your mate Pead was any good defensively, he'd be playing at right back, rather than being the invisible man in midfield.

whatever, really can't be bothered

Why make your point then? No wonder it's all doom and gloom surrounding us at the moment - some 'fans' 'can't be bothered'.

[Sadders]

To be honest you cant jus blame dicky dosh 8 of the players didn't look as if they wanted it. and 1 of those players and he came on in the last 10 mins and it was the wrackster!

[Kiansmom]

Pead was invisble because most of the time he was back tracking covering for Westwood!.

But what you fail to say is that he was covering for Westwood for no reason! I saw him standing at right back, with Westwood right next to him. There's no excuse for a performance like the one he gave last night.

Westy kept coming too far forward and getting caught out.

So you'd prefer he stayed on the edge of our own penalty area when we're losing 1-0 would you? I don't really know what you mean when you say he was 'getting caught out'. Things like that are a result of other players trying to chip in with their attempts at creating chances because we have no-one in midfield who'll do it. We were left short at the back a couple of times when Dann pushed forward too.

It's all very well going forward, but you have to have the pace to get back something Westy doesn't have

Where are you going with this argument? Westwood is a defender who defends. We're 1-0 down and chasing the game - of course he's going to push further forward. And of course that's a risk defensively. The problem is, with no creativity in midfield, we resort to just piling men forward in the hope that we'll get a lucky break. If your mate Pead was any good defensively, he'd be playing at right back, rather than being the invisible man in midfield.

whatever, really can't be bothered

Why make your point then? No wonder it's all doom and gloom surrounding us at the moment - some 'fans' 'can't be bothered'.

I bow to your superior knowledge and apologise for daring to have a different opinion

[Neuromantic]

No Phil, Ciderquest definitely played as an orthodox right winger foe the first 60 minutes of the game, and then began to get pushed forward further and more centrally after that.

[coxy_saddler]

Well, the only thing seperating the two sides tonight was a cross which their striker got on the end of after we'd failed to make our posession count in the final third (as usual).

Dobson, the name on everyone's lips over the weekend had a decent game doing what he's there to do - winning the ball and keeping it simple. I noticed one occasion where he gave the ball away in a similar situation to Friday's and fouled the player he gave the ball away to. People moaned about him fouling the player - personally, I thought it showed he's learned from his mistakes.
Pead was completely invisible alongside him though - he's not good enough.

I thought Cederqvist had a good first half and did what Wright should have been doing in previous weeks. He was making himself available for the ball, tracking back (and notably winning the ball back on a number of ocassions), and winning his headers. Second half, he faded - but how many times did we give him the ball? We completely stopped trying to play the ball on the ground, which we were doing pretty well in last 20 minutes of the first half. All in all, he was an improvement on the drivel we've had to put up with on the right side previously.

Westwood had another solid game, as did Gerrard and Dann to be honest. Fox did alright, but I think he would have played better if had someone more used to playing out wide in front of him than Keates.
We've started to leak goals now, which is a concern. The thing is, the back four in general aren't an issue - it's the fact that we don't keep the ball for long enough in the opposition's half that lets us down. The fact that we have 3 midfield 'spoilers' means that we don't have anyone making runs in the final third - when was the last time we saw one of our midfielders make a run in to the box, beyond the strikers?

Butler was Butler and Sam was Sam. There's not really a lot else to say on that front.

I wonder about the managers tactics when he chooses Wright on the bench rather than Ishmel. Yes, we can all argue cases for or against Wright being in the side, but the fact of the matter is, Ishmel is much more likely to change a game in our favour than Wright is - he's done it a few times this season already.
As soon as we went behind tonight, we didn't know what to do. We offered no threat whatsoever going forward. Wrack came on, but rather than him playing centrally instead of the completely ineffective Pead, he got shoved on the right wing, where he barely saw the ball. We all know he can't play wide any more - if anything, he should play in the middle when we need someone to put their foot on the ball and calm things down.

Our next game is now a must win. We were let of the hook tonight by other teams dropping points. People were coming away from the game tonight gutted that we'd fallen from the top spot. My message would be to forget about that - Hartlepool will win the league. They've hit form at the right time, strengthened their squad where necessary and to put it simply, are better than the other sides at the top. It will please me if they win every game between now and the end of the season - at least that means they'll beat some of our promotion rivals.

We need a central midfielder and a winger now. A case could be made for a striker too, but unless they have something different (i.e. bags of pace) we might as well not bother. We need to improve the supply before we decide whether or not we improve the firepower.

:lol: :lol:

Westwood got battered by there left winger..Who was a quality player.

Fox - HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF

[matty_walsall4eva]

Well, the only thing seperating the two sides tonight was a cross which their striker got on the end of after we'd failed to make our posession count in the final third (as usual).

Dobson, the name on everyone's lips over the weekend had a decent game doing what he's there to do - winning the ball and keeping it simple. I noticed one occasion where he gave the ball away in a similar situation to Friday's and fouled the player he gave the ball away to. People moaned about him fouling the player - personally, I thought it showed he's learned from his mistakes.
Pead was completely invisible alongside him though - he's not good enough.

I thought Cederqvist had a good first half and did what Wright should have been doing in previous weeks. He was making himself available for the ball, tracking back (and notably winning the ball back on a number of ocassions), and winning his headers. Second half, he faded - but how many times did we give him the ball? We completely stopped trying to play the ball on the ground, which we were doing pretty well in last 20 minutes of the first half. All in all, he was an improvement on the drivel we've had to put up with on the right side previously.

Westwood had another solid game, as did Gerrard and Dann to be honest. Fox did alright, but I think he would have played better if had someone more used to playing out wide in front of him than Keates.
We've started to leak goals now, which is a concern. The thing is, the back four in general aren't an issue - it's the fact that we don't keep the ball for long enough in the opposition's half that lets us down. The fact that we have 3 midfield 'spoilers' means that we don't have anyone making runs in the final third - when was the last time we saw one of our midfielders make a run in to the box, beyond the strikers?

Butler was Butler and Sam was Sam. There's not really a lot else to say on that front.

I wonder about the managers tactics when he chooses Wright on the bench rather than Ishmel. Yes, we can all argue cases for or against Wright being in the side, but the fact of the matter is, Ishmel is much more likely to change a game in our favour than Wright is - he's done it a few times this season already.
As soon as we went behind tonight, we didn't know what to do. We offered no threat whatsoever going forward. Wrack came on, but rather than him playing centrally instead of the completely ineffective Pead, he got shoved on the right wing, where he barely saw the ball. We all know he can't play wide any more - if anything, he should play in the middle when we need someone to put their foot on the ball and calm things down.

Our next game is now a must win. We were let of the hook tonight by other teams dropping points. People were coming away from the game tonight gutted that we'd fallen from the top spot. My message would be to forget about that - Hartlepool will win the league. They've hit form at the right time, strengthened their squad where necessary and to put it simply, are better than the other sides at the top. It will please me if they win every game between now and the end of the season - at least that means they'll beat some of our promotion rivals.

We need a central midfielder and a winger now. A case could be made for a striker too, but unless they have something different (i.e. bags of pace) we might as well not bother. We need to improve the supply before we decide whether or not we improve the firepower.

:shock: :? :shock: :? :shock: :? :shock: :?

is this a joke

westwood was rubbish.
fox didnt even look up once in the match when he had the ball he just kicked and hoped it would reach our player, which it didnt

mate you was watching the wrong match, either that or you should go to spec savers :wink:

[WFC_Rob]

westwood was rubbish.
fox didnt even look up once in the match when he had the ball he just kicked and hoped it would reach our player, which it didnt

mate you was watching the wrong match, either that or you should go to spec savers :wink:

Ok then, rather than shooting me down for telling how I saw things, how about you come up with an example to support what you're saying. Westwood didn't win his usual share in the air, but when you're up against someone 6 inches taller than you, that's always going to be an issue.

As for Fox, I thin you need to look into things a bit firther than saying he kicked it and hoped. He was playing percentage football last night when under pressure. When he had the time and space to do so, he played balls inside and linked up with Keates in the first half. I think you'll find most fullbacks playing the ball long down the line when they have no other option - it turns defenders and more often than not, wins us a throw in further down the pitch.
I agree that we should be seeing more from Fox, but the majority of his long balls last night came as a result of the failings of other players.

As for your final point - my dad is a qualified optician. And I think you'll find it's 'you were watching the wrong match'. Touche.

[Geordiesaddler]

Decent first half with zero end product.
Second half, cringeworthingly dire, as bad as anything this time last season.

Urgent action required, the first of which has to be the dropping of Cederqvest, we may as well start with 10 men. Second of which has to be this ludicrous subsitituting of Hector Sam. Once again last night he worked hard and gave the opposition some problems.

Dobson needs dropping for his own good IMO, or as Bernie suggests moving to centre-half as replacement for Roper.

We need some pace in the team, a line-up last night is just too easy to play against, a pacey winger or even a box-to-box central midfielder allows Butler to play as a proper centre-forward rather than the team dogsbody chasing around to compensate for the likes of Dobson and Cerderqvist giving the ball to the opposition.

That to me means two signings ASAP.

Promotion is simply there for the taking with some simple, common sense decision making.

[matty_walsall4eva]

westwood was rubbish.
fox didnt even look up once in the match when he had the ball he just kicked and hoped it would reach our player, which it didnt

mate you was watching the wrong match, either that or you should go to spec savers :wink:

Ok then, rather than shooting me down for telling how I saw things, how about you come up with an example to support what you're saying. Westwood didn't win his usual share in the air, but when you're up against someone 6 inches taller than you, that's always going to be an issue.

As for Fox, I thin you need to look into things a bit firther than saying he kicked it and hoped. He was playing percentage football last night when under pressure. When he had the time and space to do so, he played balls inside and linked up with Keates in the first half. I think you'll find most fullbacks playing the ball long down the line when they have no other option - it turns defenders and more often than not, wins us a throw in further down the pitch.
I agree that we should be seeing more from Fox, but the majority of his long balls last night came as a result of the failings of other players.

As for your final point - my dad is a qualified optician. And I think you'll find it's 'you were watching the wrong match'. Touche.

westwood had times where a SMALLER player was by him and he still go out jumped. he backed off players too easy and gave them a free run, he could have intercepted passes, but he didnt

fox had enough time to think of a pass, but he hurried his passes, he could have p[layed an easier ball into a midfielder but decided to go for the long ball, to sam or butler who werent winning anything in the air, everybody i was sitting by noticed that the long ball werent working, every time we punted the ball forwards they would win the ball and send it back to us, we werent going no where, when we actually played the ball on the floor we started to move forwards, but when fox picked up the ball we decided to hit it long and hope for the best.

you just watch on saturday if your at the match and then come back to this thread.

oh and i was watching the game, and have played at a good standard to know when a player is doing wrong or playing rubbish,

[WFC_Rob]

westwood had times where a SMALLER player was by him and he still go out jumped. he backed off players too easy and gave them a free run, he could have intercepted passes, but he didnt

fox had enough time to think of a pass, but he hurried his passes, he could have p[layed an easier ball into a midfielder but decided to go for the long ball, to sam or butler who werent winning anything in the air, everybody i was sitting by noticed that the long ball werent working, every time we punted the ball forwards they would win the ball and send it back to us, we werent going no where, when we actually played the ball on the floor we started to move forwards, but when fox picked up the ball we decided to hit it long and hope for the best.

you just watch on saturday if your at the match and then come back to this thread.

oh and i was watching the game, and have played at a good standard to know when a player is doing wrong or playing rubbish,

So have I - to say that doesn't mean you're any more right than I am.

My argument is that Fox's distribution isn't poor because of him and nobody else - he has to have someone available to receive the ball for him to be able to pass it. If not, he resorts to plan B - the safe option where he puts the ball in the corner in the hope we'll get something from it. It's called percentage football - something we're doing far too often at the moment. I didn't see a single instance where Fox had an easier option. Mind you, you've played at a good standard so you'll know that. :wink:

[Exile]

Some people only come on here to have a moan.

[Cheesebag]

Some people only come on here to have a moan.

:D

[clawtheolder]

I was going to agree about putting Dobo at centre half but the problem is when he makes mistakes like Friday he will be nearer goal and you get some nippy forward and its in the net. Having watched 90% of the games this season it would be useless having a midfield unless someone gets Ince by the scruff of the neck and tells him to stop hoofing it like he did last night. D.Ds tactics last night was "look lads there's a team of 6fters out there so i want you to hoof it all the while and they wont get the ball"