Macclesfield Town (A) FA Cup 1st Round 13/11/06

[ShropsSaddler]

As for the performance...very poor, although I felt we were never in danger in the 2nd half.

Player by player

Ince - very little to do. One mad moment :-)
Pead - distribution awful 1st half, better 2nd half (a pattern from the last few games for him)
Taylor - some good forward runs but let down by distribution as well at times
Roper/Dann - solid, both did a good job
Wright - infuriating mostly but one or two "magic moments"
Fox - as someone said, may as well have paid to stand on the terraces with the rest of us for all he did.
Dobson - as Bristol says, did his job perfectly. His job being to hold the midfield, put tackles in and lay the ball of quickly.
Keates - totally agree with Bristol again. Tries to do the same job as Dobson but isn't half the player. Week after week the MAJOR weakness in the team. Tries hard though bless him, and he is a local lad :roll:
Sam - I actually thought it was one of his better games...some movement, he didn;t fall over too much and 2 pretty decent shots. We KNOW he's slow so why should anyone expect him to outpace defenders?
Butler - looked fairly out of sorts. I think he looks tired. Is he carrying an injury perhaps? Or is it just the burden of carrying the only striking threat week after week?
Bedeau - can't defend him I'm afraid. He looked disinterested and slow even as a "fresh" sub.
Wrack - his movement was such a contrast to the rest of the ineffective midfield.

The Ref - absolutely awful. So many decisions against us...and then the sending off incident as detailed above. Whether it was a bad tackle or not is NOT the point...he DIDN'T blow for a foul.

[geoffwhiting]

The point about Pead being unlucky;

I was at the game, I HAVEN'T had the benefit of seeing it on tv yet....let me tell you what happened and what I saw...

Two players going in, both quite high for a 50-50 ball.

The Ref DID NOT GIVE A FREE KICK...that much wa definite. He saw nothing wrong with the incident at all.

The ball then went out of play...at which point Macclesfield players surrounded Pead and the Ref.

The Ref then decided it was a red card.

I repeat, HE DEFINITELY DID NOT GIVE A FOUL. So how can you send someone off for a challenge that wasn't even deemed a foul.

As I say, all without the benefit of replays on tv...perhaps it was a "horror tackle" as stated on the radio.

All you have said is absolutely correct. The red card was a joke. EITHER of those players could have hurt the other, both went studs first, Pead got the ball first, but only "topped it" hence his boot followed over the ball and into their player. A split second later, and it could well have been exactly the other way round.

Their player, interviewed after the game, said that Pead did not mean it i.e did not mean to foul him - fair play to him, he is absolutely correct.

The ref allowed the game to continue, even though WE had the ball, so no advantage was being played, therefore how can he come back and send Pead off? Ludicrous, watch it again if you don't agree, and see what really happened.

[Bristol Fan]

Sam - I actually thought it was one of his better games...some movement, he didn;t fall over too much and 2 pretty decent shots. We KNOW he's slow so why should anyone expect him to outpace defenders?

I actually agree with this. I thought he was better than Butler tonight, and looked more likely to score. I agree with the American commentator quoted earlier in this thread who couldn't understand why he was taken off!

So, here's why we didn't win the game - we have ONE attacking outlet when we play the team we did tonight, and that is Mark Wright. Mark him out of the game, as Macclesfield did (which isn't, frankly, rocket science) and you completely nullify us as an attacking threat. The way to deal with that would have been to bring on Demontagnac to play on the left wing, but DD decided instead to replace Wright with the less attack-minded Bedeau, which suggests at that stage he was playing for a draw.

I find this lack of a plan B a bit worrying to be honest. I think we'll be fine at home but we're not going to win many away until we work out another way of getting the ball forward. OK, so we got a draw tonight, which is fine in most away games, but we were playing the worst side in English professional football, and boy did they look it - I can't remember the last time I saw us play a team so poor and devoid of ideas, but we still created virtually nothing because they nullified Wright with a careful game-plan (well done Paul Ince). A bit worrying, as I said.

[ShropsSaddler]

So obviously, with all this on tv cameras, our appeal will be successful won't it? :roll:


(assuming we don't miss the post!)

[ShropsSaddler]

So, here's why we didn't win the game - we have ONE attacking outlet when we play the team we did tonight, and that is Mark Wright. Mark him out of the game, as Macclesfield did (which isn't, frankly, rocket science) and you completely nullify us as an attacking threat. The way to deal with that would have been to bring on Demontagnac to play on the left wing, but DD decided instead to replace Wright with the less attack-minded Bedeau, which suggests at that stage he was playing for a draw.

I find this lack of a plan B a bit worrying to be honest. I think we'll be fine at home but we're not going to win many away until we work out another way of getting the ball forward. OK, so we got a draw tonight, which is fine in most away games, but we were playing the worst side in English professional football, and boy did they look it - I can't remember the last time I saw us play a team so poor and devoid of ideas, but we still created virtually nothing because they nullified Wright with a careful game-plan (well done Paul Ince). A bit worrying, as I said.

As other teams have nullified that threat recently as well. Fox is NOT the best option on the left....I've been trying to give him (and Money) the benefit of the doubt, on the basis that it allows Taylor to get forward. But you're correct Bristol...if Wright is marked out of the game, we have no other threat.

I think, away from home, that is exactly Money's thinking...let's be solid and get a point, if we happen to nick a goal, we get three points.

On the basis that he's turned this club around in such a short space of time, I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt but doubts will surface amongst the crowd generally if we lose a few 1-0s away from home.

[geoffwhiting]

Sam - I actually thought it was one of his better games...some movement, he didn;t fall over too much and 2 pretty decent shots. We KNOW he's slow so why should anyone expect him to outpace defenders?

I actually agree with this. I thought he was better than Butler tonight, and looked more likely to score. I agree with the American commentator quoted earlier in this thread who couldn't understand why he was taken off!

So, here's why we didn't win the game - we have ONE attacking outlet when we play the team we did tonight, and that is Mark Wright. Mark him out of the game, as Macclesfield did (which isn't, frankly, rocket science) and you completely nullify us as an attacking threat. The way to deal with that would have been to bring on Demontagnac to play on the left wing, but DD decided instead to replace Wright with the less attack-minded Bedeau, which suggests at that stage he was playing for a draw.

I find this lack of a plan B a bit worrying to be honest. I think we'll be fine at home but we're not going to win many away until we work out another way of getting the ball forward. OK, so we got a draw tonight, which is fine in most away games, but we were playing the worst side in English professional football, and boy did they look it - I can't remember the last time I saw us play a team so poor and devoid of ideas, but we still created virtually nothing because they nullified Wright with a careful game-plan (well done Paul Ince). A bit worrying, as I said.

Good summing up BS, especially re: the need to bring Demontagnac on and widen our game to both wings to stretch their defence, which was coping easily most of the time with what our midfield created for Butler and Sam - i.e. not a lot!

Keates just HAS TO be dropped from midfield, this division has so many big players that he can't cope physically. It's a shame because he's 100%, but that's not enough in this division I'm afraid. Dobbo played well enough, breaking things up, but we desperately need a creative touch to bring out the best in Butler, who must be getting really peed off by now.

Tonight we rarely looked in danger of losing, yet it was still embarrassing and a real let-down for the cameras. Let's hope DD sorts it out for the replay, because with that sort of performance, this ain't over yet!

[Pedagogue]

Having suffered the "real thing" and since watched the Pead incident 3 times on TV, I have tried to collect my thoughts. I feel so embarrassed that people who do not usually watch the Saddlers will now have formed their opinions after watching that load of old garbage. Even more surprising (and depressing) was to hear Dicky Dosh actually PRAISE that dreadful exhibition. The viewers and supporters ain't that stupid and gullible, Dicky! You would have been better advised to say nothing, DD.

On the subject of DD, I see that he recently said that, if we get promoted, we will need 4 new players. I think the need is more urgent than that - in order:-
1) a skillful, attacking midfield player
2) a centre forward
3) a right back
4) a right winger.

Dobson and Keates are just not doing the business in midfield (sorry, Bristol, but I can't share your assessment of Dobbo), Sam must have a blackmail hold over DD (how else is he continually selected?), Pead's distribution is awful and, I'm sorry MWAS, but Wright (and Bedeau) are also useless against any defender with half a brain. The excellent league position, in which we find ourselves, stands to be wasted unless action is taken, soon.

[Neuromantic]

I think it might have been interesting given Fangueiro was still around.

[Bernie]

That was pure tripe but it was no surprise to those who who were at Bristol, Shrewsbury or Chester - to mention but three. We have played a lot of complete rubbish far too often this season - including in some matches which we have won.

I said a few weeks ago that if we carry on playing like this we will sink down the division and I still believe it. Since then we have had some fair performances, gained some more points and improved our position. However there are still 29 matches to go and we will not keep on winning playing as badly as we have.

DD cannot be blamed for Keates and Pead who were here before he came with no apparent alternative on our books - but for him to say that we played well was ridiculous. That match was crying out for Ishmel, for Constable, for Nicholls, for Kinsella - for anyone different from the mediocrities on display. If they are worse than what was on the pitch then it is not 3 or 4 new players we need but 8 or 9.

One bright spot - Pead will be out for three matches. Please DD - is there nobody fit in the squad who can play right back and can actually tackle and pass?

[Bernie]

The point about Pead being unlucky;

I was at the game, I HAVEN'T had the benefit of seeing it on tv yet....let me tell you what happened and what I saw...

Two players going in, both quite high for a 50-50 ball.

The Ref DID NOT GIVE A FREE KICK...that much wa definite. He saw nothing wrong with the incident at all.

The ball then went out of play...at which point Macclesfield players surrounded Pead and the Ref.

The Ref then decided it was a red card.

I repeat, HE DEFINITELY DID NOT GIVE A FOUL. So how can you send someone off for a challenge that wasn't even deemed a foul.

As I say, all without the benefit of replays on tv...perhaps it was a "horror tackle" as stated on the radio.

Looking at the incident on Sky I wonder if Pead was actually sent off for a push on a Macclesfield player who confronted him after the referee had stopped play (It was a bit like the push that Ishmel was sent off for at Nottm Forest ). As everyone noticed the referee did not blow until some time after Pead had taken the ball away from the incident. He seemed to stop play to allow the injured player to receive treatment - and it was only after the row blew up that he went for his cards.

Having said that slow motion shows that a straight red card was fully justified.

[sid swifty]

Well...due to the fact that i neither saw the match or heard the commentary due to being at work...i guess the only way i can get a sort of strawpole of opinions as to how the match went is to read this thread...well having read the said thread the only conclusion that i can come to is that it wasn't very ENTERTAINING...YET AGAIN...So lets hope DD gets the players he wants in the january transfer window...so that he can change the system from time to time.

[Duke]

Very poor match .very poor performance . only Dann and Roper can come out of this game with any credit . Not to sure what to make of Peads red card , the ref did'nt even blow for a foul until the Mac's players appealed , but looking at the replay it did look a reckless tackle.
The midfield problem showed again it just not working with Dobson and Keates can't understand why DD dos'nt see the problem . We need Kinsella in there.
If he is thinking about playing Wrack at full back in place of Pead we are in big trouble because his lack of pace and match fitness showed , when he gave away a free kick late on draging a player back . we need Westy at full back hope he'd fit for Hereford.

[Exile]

On the Pead redcard incident, it's worth noting that Roper gave the ref a massive amount of verbal, none of it polite, yet escaped a card himslef. Something funny went on, with hindsight, as Roper's antics were well beyond the pale.

[Bristol Fan]

On the Pead redcard incident, it's worth noting that Roper gave the ref a massive amount of verbal, none of it polite, yet escaped a card himslef. Something funny went on, with hindsight, as Roper's antics were well beyond the pale.

Yeah, I've never seen Roper like that before.

[Who moved the goalposts?]

Totally agree with Bernie's first post. We haven't played well for nearly 6 weeks now and there's only so much longer that this run can continue. We are very fortunate that we are in such a poor division but last night's performance was woeful. It was definitely the worst match I've ever seen on Sky TV.

We definitely need to change it around a bit and start giving other players a chance to shine. Keates has had 15 or so matches now and is truly awful. What does he offer to the team apart from a lot of running around chasing the ball? Okay he's scored 4/5 goals but even Roper has scored 2 in such a poor league....Keates just gets outmuscled by more physical midfielders, his passing is largely awful and as for his free-kicks last night :roll:

I'm not knocking Money or the team because we are doing what you need to do in this league (organisation and making us hard to beat) but quality-wise we have very little and it was embarrassingly evident last night. If Wright isn't having a good day then we have absolutely no attacking or creativity coming from midfield. Times are worrying when Wrighty is your most creative player. I'd give Wrack probably a chance with Butler (who hasn't looked anything at all since his illness), definitely play Kinsella instead of Keates and definitely give Ishmel more time on the field (whether that's from the start or not is up to Money but he should definitely be getting the odd half-hour). Money doesn't seem to like Ishmel or Constable at the moment but you've got to be looking at Constable being on the bench instead of Bedeau who offers absolutely nothing. We're severely lacking in goals at the moment - 6 goals in the last 7 is only one ahead of Macclesfield over the same period.

For the record, my next team (seeing as it's away) would be Ince, Westwood, Roper, Dann, Taylor, Wright, Kinsella, Dobson, Fox, Wrack and Butler. (Sam, Constable, Bossu, Ish and Keates). Okay, not many changes but we are still hard to beat.....I'd definitely think about a bit more attacking influence in the midfield if we were at home.

This probably seems a tad pessimistic seeing as we're comfortably top of the league and haven't conceded at home and I do realise that. It's just that I can see us struggling more and more for goals as the season goes on and we'll definitely start to lose games 1-0 (especially away from home). We could do with a central midfielder and a striker in the transfer window.

[toffo]

It was a poor game but Maccs stuck 5 in defense and rarely threatened us at all.
had my head in my hands more than a few times by our rubbish passing.
Pead - truly awful - either the surface was rubbish or the ball was an egg
Wright- tried but lack of skill and space- never got going.
Fox- not a midfielder.
Taylor - not a full back - i would rather see them both change positions.
It was there to be won but lack of attacking options let us down.
DD - give the demon a run.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Match report

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... bore-draw/

Sorry, but Keates really does have to go, as does Pead. It isn't just the (deserved) red card, but he was terrible all night in possession and marking (apart from shepherding out that one really difficult cross in the first half). I also agree with those pointing out that Sam was, in fact, our only real attacking threat last night, but you cannot criticise forwards when they are given no possession.

Dobson was the only midfielder to come out of that with any credit, but, in the end, there is a limit to what you can do against a team whose main priority at home in a Cup Tie is not to concede. If it had been a League game, I could have understood Ince's tactics, but in a Cup Tie? Unbelievable!

[Duke]

On the Pead redcard incident, it's worth noting that Roper gave the ref a massive amount of verbal, none of it polite, yet escaped a card himslef. Something funny went on, with hindsight, as Roper's antics were well beyond the pale.

Agreed Exile , my first reaction was Roper was in trouble , the ref clearly saw no foul , he acted on the reaction of the Macc's players . thats what i think upset Roper .

[saddlerken]

Absolutely dire, I've been slaughtered in work this morning and I'm not surprised, dire stuff.

The fire is burning out, there isn't any spark, DD has taken this squad and squeezed all it has to give to get us in this position, we desperately need some additions to liven things up, things are getting stale.

The centre of midfield needs some attention, Keates terrible again, I appreciate he trys hard but it's not enough.

Butler looks like he's had enough, I don't blame him.

[Exile]

Dire it may have been, but this was still a couple of leagues better than watching the NZ Knights. Trust me on this.

[King Crimson]

Absolutely dire, I've been slaughtered in work this morning and I'm not surprised, dire stuff.

The fire is burning out, there isn't any spark, DD has taken this squad and squeezed all it has to give to get us in this position, we desperately need some additions to liven things up, things are getting stale.

The centre of midfield needs some attention, Keates terrible again, I appreciate he trys hard but it's not enough.

Butler looks like he's had enough, I don't blame him.

Can't disagree with any of that, Ken. :(

[philthesaddler]

Hmmm well, what an atrocious match between two poor sides.

Our team has gone stale now, there is no creativity and no confidence to speak of, Wright [surprise surprise], Pead, Fox, Dobson, Keates all had mares.

This is what I don't understand about Money, this was a chance to change the team around, try something different, give the likes of Ish and Bedeau a 90 minute chance - afterall we were playing a very poor side, in a cup match, hardly the height of importance, instead, he stuck with the midfield that in recent matches have been dire, lets not mince our words, the combination of Wright, Dobson, Keates and Fox, have, of late, been terrible. Keates tries and tries but there's no body to calm things down, Wright's there, but if he's not wimping out of challenges or having that split second of hesitation, he's miss controlling the ball or hitting his first man. On the left we've got Danny Fox, who likes to play the game very slowly, it's like watching slow motion. Of course, none of them want to cross the ball, culminatiing in wasting time and allowing the opposition to re-organise.

I'm afraid Money has now got to show his worth and show us he's seeing what is blindingly obvious, that we have gone stale.

It speaks volumes that we've got a striker of the calibre of Butler upfront, yet the service and support from midfield is so deep and lacklustre that he hasn't found the net in 8 games, in a team that is top of the league.

RM just has to drop that midfield, perhaps keep one in - but only keates on effort for me. Wright, Fox and Dobson don't deserve to be in the first team with performances like they've been producing, give them a couple of weeks in the stiffs, they'll soon liven up.

As for peads sending off, yes on second inspection it seems a nasty tackle, not two footed, but he does seem to have gone over the ball and caught the player. Strange tho that the ref didn't blow originally, something made his change his mind, possibly the player complaining, possibly the linesman or the fourth official, but the ref was having a mare from the first minute, I mean he penalised Butler twice for the henous crime of getting in front of his man! God, with a ref like that, how's the game going to be any good. Whatsmore he missed quite a blatent punch on Sam, seconds after the same player had had a little kick at Hector.

Please change it Richard, players are becoming complacent with their league position, too many players are having off days, and what's more we've got one of the strongest [in theory] set of back up players in the league, lets use them!

[derbysaddler]

Absolutely dire, I've been slaughtered in work this morning and I'm not surprised, dire stuff.

The fire is burning out, there isn't any spark, DD has taken this squad and squeezed all it has to give to get us in this position, we desperately need some additions to liven things up, things are getting stale.

The centre of midfield needs some attention, Keates terrible again, I appreciate he trys hard but it's not enough.

Butler looks like he's had enough, I don't blame him.

Can't argue with that.

I understand that Macclesfield have a new manager factor avbout them and did their homework on us, but we should have had enough about us to win that last night at a canter.

Defensively, we never looked under much pressure, even during that first 15 minute spell they had. ( apart from that cross form the young town player Wiles). Dobson broke things up in midfield, put didn't offer that much going forward, and what he did offer was clumsy at best.

Agree with others on here. The midfield needs shaking up for a few games, Keates is dropping in form. Our front two players are starved of service, even though Sam had the better night out of the two players.

Pead knocked his passes out 4 times in the first half, then made some surging runs up field but his final ball was terrible. The sending off was justified, can't go in two footed with your legs in the air.



Shame we had to play like that on TV.

[Magic Man Fan]

One of the worst performances of the season for me but because the team is based on a solid defence we kept a clean sheet and didn't lose. That's what it's all about.

Pead was atrocious. I thought he had his boots on the wrong feet. How can a professional footballer slice the ball out of play with his correct foot when under no pressure THREE times in one half. I am left footed but I wouldn't have done that playing in his position.

I don't know how you can say Sam was good Buck. His usual falling over tactics are becoming tiresome. He had two shots both off target when he was pretty much clean through and had time to get closer on goal.

Midfield has to be sorted and soon. There's no creativity and even defensively they're getting stretched all over the place. Keates gets so much flak but Dobson is equally at fault.

It's clear why Wright starts every week despite his recent below par performances....because Bedeau is worse.

Butler ran his socks off but is doing the job of practically 4 players because the "wingers" aren't wingers, and his strike partner and the one central midfielder who should get forward are playing so deep he is isolated. I would be he is frustrated to say the least.

Changes must at least be attempted because game by game we are creating less and less chances and its becoming very difficult to nick the goal we need to win games.

Not a good advertisement for our table topping side at all.

[Magic Man Fan]

Pathetic! In front of Merson, that was a truly Mersonesque display (well, except we didn't gift them any goals).

We need another midfielder! Now! Dobson was excellent tonight, but we need someone alongside him who can create. Butler was feeding on scraps and Sam just had the two snapshots which came out of nowhere. Wrack did all right when he came on, maybe we should try him in the middle with Dobson?

And for God's sake - where's Constable?

Which game were you watching to come to the conclusion that Dobbo was excellent. :shock:
I think we need more than one.

Exactly! Bristol Fan, it's rare I disagree with you but Dobson was truly awful....again and is really beginning to piss me off whatever the reasons for him not playing to his potential I don't give a stuff, make Roper captain who is starting to show some leadership and shouting much more and drop him.

Captain Fantastic....not.

[Magic Man Fan]

The point about Pead being unlucky;

I was at the game, I HAVEN'T had the benefit of seeing it on tv yet....let me tell you what happened and what I saw...

Two players going in, both quite high for a 50-50 ball.

The Ref DID NOT GIVE A FREE KICK...that much wa definite. He saw nothing wrong with the incident at all.

The ball then went out of play...at which point Macclesfield players surrounded Pead and the Ref.

The Ref then decided it was a red card.

I repeat, HE DEFINITELY DID NOT GIVE A FOUL. So how can you send someone off for a challenge that wasn't even deemed a foul.

As I say, all without the benefit of replays on tv...perhaps it was a "horror tackle" as stated on the radio.

That's why I was so annoyed. The ref WASN'T going to give it.

Everyone who was watching on TV told me it was a definite red. Fair enough but if the ref didn't think it was straight away he shouldn't be swayed by the Macc players.

[saddlerken]

I'm not convinced it was a definate red, clumsy yes, but I reckon he went for the ball. Pead being lower league sh|te managed to make it look worse than it was

[philthesaddler]

I'm not convinced it was a definate red, clumsy yes, but I reckon he went for the ball. Pead being lower league sh|te managed to make it look worse than it was

Yes, it looked more clumsy than malicious, and the ref was definately swung by something 8 or 9 seconds after the foul, and there wasn't anyone better placed that him to give the foul!

Remember though that this ref gave a foul against Butler for beating his man to the ball! I couldn't believe that decision it was so bad! With the sending off there was a probably a case, but the other fouls he was giving were just completely misjudged.

[Magic Man Fan]

I think we'll be lucky to keep Money beyond the end of the season - he's worth more than this.

Exile, I don't understand that comment, would you please explain it?

Why is he worth more than this?

- It is his choice to continue picking the same innefective midfield
- It is his choice to ignore players he has available time after time
- It is his choice to play with two central midfielders that hardly get over the halfway line.
- It is his choice that he hasn't taken anyone on loan even though he has admitted budget is available.

He is an excellent manager and has organised the team brilliantly, especially in defence, the only thing keeping us going at the moment but that's where all teams should start from.

However he has plenty of options to change things in our favour, Kinsella, Ishy, Constable. If he tried and they didn't work then I'd understand but in all the games they have featured they have been excellent and we have won, even away from home.

But to say he is worth more, I really don't understand. It is he holding us back.

[Stu]

From the TV viewpoint, Dobson actually had a good game, I was surprised at just how often he appeared to pop up and be in the right place to put in a tackle, break up an attack and then play a simple ball for Keats/Fox/Wright/Pead/Taylor to give possession away.

Pead's red card was deserved in that he had two feet off the floor, however their bloke also went in studs up with his leading foot to be honest, if Pead had stayed down injured too, then neither would have been penalised, let alone Pead red-carded.

Wouldn't have scored in a brothel last night either, thats now 6 goals scored in our last 7 matches. Clean sheets are great, IF you can manage to create opportunities at the other end.