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Walsall v Torquay...marks out of 100...?

Reports and reaction from the 2006-07 season as Walsall finished 1st (C) in League 2
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saddlerken
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:33 am

sid swifty wrote:I'm trying to work out if you agree with me or not ken...mixed signals there mate... :D


Oh I agree, most of Saturday was absolutely atrocious, the centre midfield are about as creative as me in art (I got 8% drawing an acorn when I was 14, how hard can it be?)

BUT

I'm not that bothered because I just need to look at the league table to appreciate what this season is all about, getting out of this utterly pathetic division.

And I do admire our organisation, hard work and brilliant defense (you could say that was worth the entrance fee)

You didn't boo at half time did you Sid?

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:38 am

saddlerken wrote:And I do admire our organisation, hard work and brilliant defense (you could say that was worth the entrance fee)


The point I was trying to make. Every time we lost possession, the way the team fell back into shape, denying the opposition the chance of breaking them down, forcing the long ball in the end, duly gobbled up by Roper and Dann - sheer poetry.

In any given home game, you spend around 40 to 45% of time WITHOUT the ball and what you do then is as important as what you do with it.

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sid swifty
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:39 am

saddlerken wrote:
sid swifty wrote:I'm trying to work out if you agree with me or not ken...mixed signals there mate... :D


Oh I agree, most of Saturday was absolutely atrocious, the centre midfield are about as creative as me in art (I got 8% drawing an acorn when I was 14, how hard can it be?)

BUT

I'm not that bothered because I just need to look at the league table to appreciate what this season is all about, getting out of this utterly pathetic division.

And I do admire our organisation, hard work and brilliant defense (you could say that was worth the entrance fee)

You didn't boo at half time did you Sid?
No ken i didn't boo mate...i didn't clap either though.. :D

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:40 am

sid swifty wrote:glad your so easily pleased RS...lets have this thread in another 3 months...see how much people have changed...and if the attendances stay near to 6,000.


Easily pleased? I don't think a home record of P9 W8 D1 L0 F19 A0 is that bad. That's averaging 2 goals a game... How is that easily pleased?

You say we're not entertaining, yet only Lincoln have scored more goals than Walsall this season in the entire division.

As for the last setance, I think that shows what a minority your in Sid. You say let's see if they stay near to 6,00... Have you seen the pattern of our attendances this season? They've gone up consistently to hit 6,000, if things carry on, only indication is that they'll get higher.

If you want them officially;

4877
5637
4651
4070
4657
5420
6745
6275
5806

The crowds are only going one way Sid, that is up, during a period in which you say we're not entertaining. The lowest crowd was a Tuesday night home match to Peterboro, best performance of the season. The highest crowd was the top of the table clash with Wycombe.

And we're not playing to a 100% of our potential either in my view...

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sid swifty
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:44 am

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
saddlerken wrote:And I do admire our organisation, hard work and brilliant defense (you could say that was worth the entrance fee)


The point I was trying to make. Every time we lost possession, the way the team fell back into shape, denying the opposition the chance of breaking them down, forcing the long ball in the end, duly gobbled up by Roper and Dann - sheer poetry.

In any given home game, you spend around 40 to 45% of time WITHOUT the ball and what you do then is as important as what you do with it.
No Neil we didn't lose our shape once...thats the problem we had 8 defenders in a block all afternoon (apart from when wrack did his playmaker bit and forced them to break rank)...how can you give butler any service when your more worried about letting a goal in than forcing the pace in a game against a very average team AT HOME.

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:49 am

sid swifty wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
saddlerken wrote:And I do admire our organisation, hard work and brilliant defense (you could say that was worth the entrance fee)


The point I was trying to make. Every time we lost possession, the way the team fell back into shape, denying the opposition the chance of breaking them down, forcing the long ball in the end, duly gobbled up by Roper and Dann - sheer poetry.

In any given home game, you spend around 40 to 45% of time WITHOUT the ball and what you do then is as important as what you do with it.
No Neil we didn't lose our shape once...thats the problem we had 8 defenders in a block all afternoon (apart from when wrack did his playmaker bit and forced them to break rank)...how can you give butler any service when your more worried about letting a goal in than forcing the pace in a game against a very average team AT HOME.


Then learn to embrace it! I found the second half very entertaining and thought it was an exemplary performance of how to win games.

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sid swifty
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:49 am

Stu wrote:
sid swifty wrote:glad your so easily pleased RS...lets have this thread in another 3 months...see how much people have changed...and if the attendances stay near to 6,000.


Easily pleased? I don't think a home record of P9 W8 D1 L0 F19 A0 is that bad. That's averaging 2 goals a game... How is that easily pleased?

You say we're not entertaining, yet only Lincoln have scored more goals than Walsall this season in the entire division.

As for the last setance, I think that shows what a minority your in Sid. You say let's see if they stay near to 6,00... Have you seen the pattern of our attendances this season? They've gone up consistently to hit 6,000, if things carry on, only indication is that they'll get higher.

If you want them officially;

4877
5637
4651
4070
4657
5420
6745
6275
5806

The crowds are only going one way Sid, that is up, during a period in which you say we're not entertaining. The lowest crowd was a Tuesday night home match to Peterboro, best performance of the season. The highest crowd was the top of the table clash with Wycombe.

And we're not playing to a 100% of our potential either in my view...
ok then stu...if we stay either 1st or 2nd in the league...and our gates drop below 5'000 then you will have to agree with me that performance matters as much as results... :wink:

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:49 am

I say we get Kevin Keegan so we can lose 4-3 every week but be thoroughly entertained. :D

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sid swifty
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:53 am

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
sid swifty wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
saddlerken wrote:And I do admire our organisation, hard work and brilliant defense (you could say that was worth the entrance fee)


The point I was trying to make. Every time we lost possession, the way the team fell back into shape, denying the opposition the chance of breaking them down, forcing the long ball in the end, duly gobbled up by Roper and Dann - sheer poetry.

In any given home game, you spend around 40 to 45% of time WITHOUT the ball and what you do then is as important as what you do with it.
No Neil we didn't lose our shape once...thats the problem we had 8 defenders in a block all afternoon (apart from when wrack did his playmaker bit and forced them to break rank)...how can you give butler any service when your more worried about letting a goal in than forcing the pace in a game against a very average team AT HOME.


Then learn to embrace it! I found the second half very entertaining and thought it was an exemplary performance of how to win games.
i agree we did have a spell where we were starting to make progress between the midfield and forwards...but if you count how many chances butler has lately (let alone goals) then you must agree we need to be more attack minded at home.

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saddlerken
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:54 am

sid swifty wrote:No ken i didn't boo mate...i didn't clap either though.. :D


Good

Neither did I, I just said "we'll probably nick in the 2nd hald like we usually do" which is a good place to be

I would love it if one of the boo boys was big enough to come on here and admit to doing it, can't see it though, I expect they would have to be able to read first

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sid swifty
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:58 am

saddlerken wrote:
sid swifty wrote:No ken i didn't boo mate...i didn't clap either though.. :D


Good

Neither did I, I just said "we'll probably nick in the 2nd hald like we usually do" which is a good place to be

I would love it if one of the boo boys was big enough to come on here and admit to doing it, can't see it though, I expect they would have to be able to read first
cant really see the point in booing ken...unless like with merson we tried everything else and the chairman was still deaf to our views (and he later admitted we were right and he was wrong)..but i have yet to hear a player say "well we had a poor first half but the fans gave us the boost we needed when they booed us off"... :D

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:59 am

I just find it difficult to believe anyone can criticise when the priority - and it is the only priority - is to get out of this God awful Divsion. We have 38 points from 17 games, haven't conceded at home and have a goal difference of +21, which only Manchester United can equal in the country.

Four more wins and we'll be safe, by the way!

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:01 am

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:I just find it difficult to believe anyone can criticise when the priority - and it is the only priority - is to get out of this God awful Divsion. We have 38 points from 17 games, haven't conceded at home and have a goal difference of +21, which only Manchester United can equal in the country.

Four more wins and we'll be safe, by the way!


I know and it is hard to see where the next win is coming from isn't it :roll:

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sid swifty
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:08 am

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:I just find it difficult to believe anyone can criticise when the priority - and it is the only priority - is to get out of this God awful Divsion. We have 38 points from 17 games, haven't conceded at home and have a goal difference of +21, which only Manchester United can equal in the country.

Four more wins and we'll be safe, by the way!
thats it then...once we are mathamatically safe...we will play 2-4-4...with a goalie who goes up for corners... :D

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:09 am

Bristol Fan wrote:
Exile wrote:Also agree with Bernie, that there's a place for all opinions.


This is of course the case, and anybody suggesting that there isn't room for improvement is mistaken, but when you're top of the league after a reasonable number of games, that's the one occasion when saying "stop moaning and get behind the lads" actually has some merit.

I'm a bit surprised we haven't seen more of Ishy - but the Taylor/Fox partnership has worked well. It was a shame that it was interrupted to make room for Wrack, when such accommodation had never been made for the far more potent-seeming threat of Ishy - and parity was restored when the same became true of that partnership in the second half yesterday.

The central midfield and partner-for-Butler issues are the places where I would like to see a change. Keates hasn't been bad individually, but Dobson is clearly the better player and needs a partner who will allow him to get on with things. A creative midfielder should be top of the shopping list, I think. Second top would be a striker because Sam just isn't doing it any more (having been excellent at the start of the season) and maybe thinks he doesn't have any competition, since Constable is obviously very out-of-favour and Bedeau is desperately poor.


Agree absolutely BF.

And for once, and hopefully not the last time, futuresobright has come out with some comments I actually agree with.

NOT the statement that we have a weaker squad this season, clearly we are STRONGER as a unit, by far. And NOT that we are playing worse football, it could hardly get worse than the stuff we endured last season.

His comments about Ince interest me, as they are diametrically opposed to what he was saying about Ince just 2-3 weeks ago, yet Ince is playing the same as then, consistently excellent, dominating his box and making difficult saves look relatively easy, which his height and reach allow him to do.

Where I do agree (as I think most of us do) is that we certainly are falling short in midfield and attack, not producing enough going forward through midfield to link up with Butler and Sam, so we are too often found lumping the ball direct from back to front, and losing out on possession to the bigger more rugged defenders of the likes of Accrington (at times), MK Dons (more-or-less throughout) and indeed Torquay (especially in the first half).

I also agree that Ishmel should be appearing more, his pace is electrifying, although it sometimes leads to him beating himself and losing the ball, but I'll put up with more of that for the sake of the pure entertainment value, the excitement, and the potential to set-up situations that Butler (especially) will exploit.

I think that would also improve the entertainment value for Sid and certain others who are dis-satisfied with the stuff that's being served up. I don't happen to agree with him about that because personally I'm happy that we're doing well results-wise, and look on course to get out of this horrible basement division that sits worryingly close to that trapdoor to the Conference. But Sid's paying his money and therefore entitled to demand what he wants in return, or to tell the club and us that he's keeping his cash in his pocket. And I'd like to add that I admire his patience and self-control in arguing his case on here without getting heated at some of the responses he's had.

Finally, other than Ishy I think that DD is generally making the most of what he's got, although I'd drop Keates to the bench and use Kinsella more as he and Dobbo seemed to combine well earlier in the season. Other than that, DD is limited by the squad he has at his disposal, and I think we need to have patience until the transfer window opens and see how he goes about strengthening the areas that we perceive to be weak. He can't do anything about that right now, so why criticise, let's see what he and JB are made of in January, and if things don't improve then, maybe we should start questioning the direction we're going in.

Until then, the present direction will do me fine thank you very much, onwards and upwards seems to be the way, it's lovely to have our Walsall back, our self-respect back, and top of the league when a promotion place just means staying in the top three, and that's looking a pretty safe bet right now.

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:20 pm

Boring, Boring Walsall !!!!

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sid swifty
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:24 pm

bournemouthsaddler wrote:Boring, Boring Walsall !!!!
couldn't have summed it up better myself bournemouth... :D :D :D

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:32 pm

Thats what they said about Arsenal tho, the year they won the double!!

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:37 pm

bournemouthsaddler wrote:Thats what they said about Arsenal tho, the year they won the double!!


What, they won by being boring? Never...

I'd rather finish 5th and lose in the Play Off Final to the odd goal in 9 in the last minute. At least I'd get my monies worth then.

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:43 pm

Thats what the opposition fans used to sing when Arsenal won one nil, again and again. The Arsenal fans used to sing it themselves when they were five nil up!

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:36 pm

Silliest. Thread. Ever.

Ill get ones coat (its not that entertaining though so I dont think I will)

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:27 pm

sid swifty wrote:
Stu wrote:
sid swifty wrote:glad your so easily pleased RS...lets have this thread in another 3 months...see how much people have changed...and if the attendances stay near to 6,000.


Easily pleased? I don't think a home record of P9 W8 D1 L0 F19 A0 is that bad. That's averaging 2 goals a game... How is that easily pleased?

You say we're not entertaining, yet only Lincoln have scored more goals than Walsall this season in the entire division.

As for the last setance, I think that shows what a minority your in Sid. You say let's see if they stay near to 6,00... Have you seen the pattern of our attendances this season? They've gone up consistently to hit 6,000, if things carry on, only indication is that they'll get higher.

If you want them officially;

4877
5637
4651
4070
4657
5420
6745
6275
5806

The crowds are only going one way Sid, that is up, during a period in which you say we're not entertaining. The lowest crowd was a Tuesday night home match to Peterboro, best performance of the season. The highest crowd was the top of the table clash with Wycombe.

And we're not playing to a 100% of our potential either in my view...
ok then stu...if we stay either 1st or 2nd in the league...and our gates drop below 5'000 then you will have to agree with me that performance matters as much as results... :wink:


Sid on the subjest of crowds I think our next four home games will see massive increases in the average. I was astonished to see nearly 6k there on Saturday, I think we now have 5,500 home fans that are well back in the habit of coming to home games, and that's about the same as we had two divisions above really.

Looking ahead - Notts Co away following 1500 - crowd around 7 k
Likewise Swindon, Shrewsbury 2k away following crowd 8-9k, Bristol Rovers, decent away following with it being a Christmas game 6-7k again.

This will likely be our best run of gates at this level since 1959-60 season.

Away we will take 1500 to Hereford and Wrexham, and 1000+ to Boston. Our support is superb for this level, as DD mentions every week.

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:31 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:sid, dler, Bernie & Cully. The facts are this.

We are top of the league.

You pay £18 to get in which you don't see as value for money. Fair enough.

However, it is YOUR choice to pay that £18. If you don't feel you are being entrtained, don't go. Simple as that.

You don't watch a film or TV programme a second time that hasn't entertained you the first. Being boring but winning is becoming a theme, which personally I feel isn't helped by our oppositions insistence to make things difficult and grab a point. So you pretty much know what will happen next game. It's your choice.

Sid, last season you refused to come while M*rs*n was in charge. Fair play to you. In that time we were losing. Now were are winning. Make the same pledge and say you won't come while DD is in charge if you feel so strongly about it. It's the same reason after all, isn't it?


Probably one of your worst posts if you don't mind me saying MMF. I have no idea what point you are trying to make with your TV/Film analogy, the criteria for every game is different, the players, the opposition, the location from week to week, the only thing that has been consistant is our style of play. Taking all these factors into consideration we are left with two main end products; first there's the result and second the performance in achieving that result. Those are some of the reasons I go to watch Walsall and being an eternal optimist I always hope that we will play well and win :shock: I can't find anybody complaining about the results, points we have achieved, league position, goals scored/conceded or the pride and pleasure we all feel at seeing our team back on top but I can find numerous posts from members commenting on our style of play and the methods employed in achieving those results in some but not all games. I note you have called our style boring, just because others have suggested that the performance of the team was not to their liking is no reason to suggest they shouldn't attend future matches. They are just expressing an opinion, they don't need reminding that 'we are top of the league'.

ps. The facts are:- We're unbeaten and hav'n't conceded a goal at home, we've only lost one league game this season, we're top of the league, the standard of the opposition has been piss poor ooh and we're boring.[ie not very entertaining]

I hope that helps clear up matters.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:05 am

Cully wrote:The facts are:- We're unbeaten and haven't conceded a goal at home, we've only lost one league game this season, we're top of the league, the standard of the opposition has been piss poor ooh and we're boring.[ie not very entertaining]

I hope that helps clear up matters.


Spot on, Cully. We are NOT a fluent, footballing side. We have rarely played "good" football, this season. As Scunthorpe and Newcastle Jets fans will tell you, this is the Dicky Dosh way of playing - and it ain't pretty! If that's what it takes to get out of this dreadful division, then so be it. I for one will enjoy the ride and I am very confident of automatic promotion - and the title if we can replace Hector Sam, the team's biggest passenger. This style of play will not be good enough for League One, let alone the Championship but, hey, let's get there first, shall we? I'll happily accept whatever it takes.

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sid swifty
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Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:17 am

Gary Ellison Saddler wrote:Silliest. Thread. Ever.

Ill get ones coat (its not that entertaining though so I dont think I will)
says the guy who thinks TC is funny... :?

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:22 am

Cully wrote:Probably one of your worst posts if you don't mind me saying MMF...


Yes, but was it an efficiently defensive post, or just boring?

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:11 am

sid swifty wrote:
Gary Ellison Saddler wrote:Silliest. Thread. Ever.

Ill get ones coat (its not that entertaining though so I dont think I will)
says the guy who thinks TC is funny... :?


Says the guy who moans when were absolute garbage and bottom of division 2, then moans when (ok were not exactly Arsenal) but 3 points clear of the division.

What I find funny is of no consequence to this thread though Sid

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sid swifty
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Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:37 am

Gary Ellison Saddler wrote:
sid swifty wrote:
Gary Ellison Saddler wrote:Silliest. Thread. Ever.

Ill get ones coat (its not that entertaining though so I dont think I will)
says the guy who thinks TC is funny... :?


Says the guy who moans when were absolute garbage and bottom of division 2, then moans when (ok were not exactly Arsenal) but 3 points clear of the division.

What I find funny is of no consequence to this thread though Sid
what i think of walsalls displays this season are of consequence to this thread...thats why i started the thread...and they are playing rubbish (in my opinion) and thats what i will say if i genuinely feel it because the uts board is here to say what we think about walsall fc and other topics...i have never been a sheep as far as expressing opinions is concerned...if i think it i say it...if you dont like it just avoid my threads...the same way i avoid certain peoples threads on here.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:46 am

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:I just find it difficult to believe anyone can criticise when the priority - and it is the only priority - is to get out of this God awful Divsion. We have 38 points from 17 games, haven't conceded at home and have a goal difference of +21, which only Manchester United can equal in the country.

Four more wins and we'll be safe, by the way!


I'll give you a reason, Neil. Not everyone who attends Walsall FC games will be a hardcore Walsall fan, with the results in mind.

Okay, It's a damn good reason to play poorly and win, Walsall do need to rise in the leagues and then in the long run attendances and probably performances will improve.

Don't assume that everyone is in your way of thinking though. I'd rather watch Walsall lose entertainingly than to win in a boring match. That is me, and nothing to do with anyone else who is bound to disagree with me.

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sid swifty
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Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:03 pm

AC wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:I just find it difficult to believe anyone can criticise when the priority - and it is the only priority - is to get out of this God awful Divsion. We have 38 points from 17 games, haven't conceded at home and have a goal difference of +21, which only Manchester United can equal in the country.

Four more wins and we'll be safe, by the way!


I'll give you a reason, Neil. Not everyone who attends Walsall FC games will be a hardcore Walsall fan, with the results in mind.

Okay, It's a damn good reason to play poorly and win, Walsall do need to rise in the leagues and then in the long run attendances and probably performances will improve.

Don't assume that everyone is in your way of thinking though. I'd rather watch Walsall lose entertainingly than to win in a boring match. That is me, and nothing to do with anyone else who is bound to disagree with me.
A man after my own heart AC...although after supporting walsall for 45 yrs i surely am getting close to being a hardcore supporter...its just that to some on here your allowed to keep repeating things like DD is our savior..DD is king...DD can sleep with my wife..but if you dare to utter anything that is thought negative then you should be banished from the board...i hope this thread is kept in the uts archive...because i can see quite a lot more people on here coming round to my way of thinking before the end of the season.

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