Barnet (A) League - Saturday 02/09/06

[Exile]

DD,s Plays a defensive side in the first half away from home to "Draw the Sting" from the home team. And in the 2nd half he goes for it. A good system I think.

Interesting theory. From the other side of the coin you could say it leaves us chasing the game.

[Stu]

DD,s Plays a defensive side in the first half away from home to "Draw the Sting" from the home team. And in the 2nd half he goes for it. A good system I think.

No... re-word that...

DD plays a horribly awful defensive formation with 6 defenders, yes 6 (3 centre backs, 3 full backs) and 2 defensive midfielders. We get comprehensively controlled by a very poor 100mph League 2 side... DD finally realises, after 45 minutes (when every away fan could have told him after 15 minutes) that we need pace and width.

We introduce pace and width and finally look 'mediocre', but never get past the 'mediocre' tag.

Cracking start to the season, 7 unbeaten, 5 clean sheets, but make no excuses, we got a point today despite what were truly disappointing awful and negative first half tactics. 6 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders meant we had no width, no pace, no guile, no brain and a good 30 yard gap between our most advanced midfielder and our deepest striker.

Hector Sam was, once again I'm sorry to say, awful. I really cannot understand anyone who says he offers more than Constable (any idea where he was though?).

A 15 minute spell in the 2nd half aside, we were 2nd best throughout. Barnet wanted to win, wanted every 50/50 ball, wanted every aerial challenge, wanted every pass... Just thank the lord that they were a bloody poor side who didn't know what to do when they got within 20 yards of goal.

Great start, but please, bloody please, can we play with wingers wide and not full backs wide.

Oh, and good game for Westwood today, espeically when shifted to centre half.

Best moment of the game was watching Asbo Ishy laugh at Ian Hendon, not once, but twice, when Hendon got nowhere near him with a tackle. Much better than reacting physically, and he did it without the ref looking, whilst having quite a few fans laughing at the incident.

[Exile]

The good thing about an otherwise poor ref was that he protected Asbo. Don't know if he'd been worked over before the game, but the two clattering tackles Ishy received were both yellow-carded, which saved Asbo having to mete out punishment himself.

[Pedagogue]

I hate to say "I told you so" but I told you so!

When DD was appointed, in April, I posted, reminding people of when his Scunthorpe United team came to Bescot. They were probably the most boring, negative side ever to play us and were roundly booed off the pitch. I remember the fanzine (yes, I know - what's a fanzine?) at the time, publishing a suitably sarcastic article. I forget which fanzine it was. Possibly someone may be able to dig out an old copy.

This is DD's preferred "style" of play. Accept it because it's going to be a nailbiting ride to promotion (which I'm sure we will achieve). It worked for Sir Ray.

[Exile]

He took Newcastle to the play-offs on a threadbare squad with no wing talent, playing hoofball. This is an improvement - if he has the players he uses them. That's good.

[Registered Saddler]

In the end, pleased with a point today because we were way below par. Also you have to factor in the conditions which were atrocious, and were unfortunately against us. First half they played into the wind which meant any long ball held up nicely for their strikers. Second half and the wind suddenly got up which meant Ince couldn't even get the ball out of the penalty area on goal kicks. When the conditions are that bad, it makes a bit of a mockery of the game.

First half was dreadful. Whatever the formation or tactics or team selection, we were way below standard. Everyone bar perhaps Roper and Butler could have been subbed at the break without any complaints. As it happened, the injury to Roper worked in our favour as it meant we had to put Pead back to his proper position, right back. Second half was much better and a draw was probably just about a fair result.

As I say, Pead should play right back, it just isn't Westy's position. First half I thought he struggled again - he doesn't get close enough to the winger to block the cross. At centre half he was much, much better (no surprise there) and may get his chance to cement a place if Ropes is out injured. The left side of the team doesn't concern me so much because normally Fox and Taylor work together quite well. They tend to take it in turns to overlap down the flank and both are decent crossers of the ball. However it seemed today like they were both trying to play left back and offered no attacking threat whatsoever. Saying that, Ishy was very good when he came on. I think he may have earned the right to be in the starting XI - lets see if he can keep his discipline.

Dobson wasn't fit. He can't have been. He was blowing after about 30 minutes and for the last 30 we were playing with ten men. He won the odd header but that was it. Their midfielders (and Sinclair in particular) were just running past him which put so much pressure on our defence. Up front Butler gave his normal hard-working performance. Sam offered nothing whatsoever. He needs another spell out of the team so he can buck his ideas up.

All in all, a fairly useful point but one against a team you would hope we would be beating more often than not. Occasionally we're going to have to graft out a game and we did that today. Hopefully we can get a decent points haul from the next two games which are away at Grimsby and home to Macclesfield.

[London Saddler]

Poor performance and a rather lucky point. Yes conditions were atrocious. Yes Underhill is like the land the time forgot. Yes the ref was a joke. But bottom line is if you are going to go up automatically, you have to come to Barnet and win

Make no mistake, Barnet are a poor team. I saw them twice last year and they were terrible. They have improved this season but i will be surprised if they manage a mid table position. And as the weather gets worse, i can see a lot more away games like this. So far we have been solid at home. But away we have narrowly beaten Rochdale (who hasnt!), and been outplayed by Lincoln and now Barnet

The first half was liking watching a Merson team. People playing out of position. Defensively all over the place and we should have been losing by 2 or 3. Midfield outmuscled. No pace or width. And up front no shot on goal. Once DD made the substitutions and bought Demon, Fangeuiro and Wright on, we scored and it was an even 2nd half

Defensively we struggled in the first half. Goal we conceded from a simple throw was a joke. Ropes was solid as usual and i hope his injury is nothing serious. Gerrard had some dodgy moments but improved as the game went on. Am delighted about Westwood as i thought he was good. I posted after the Stockport game saying how Pead was a weak link and Westwood should come in. And so i was pleased that straight after DD bought Westwood into the right back slot. He is a better tackler, header and passer than Pead and his positional sense will improve with games in the right back slot. He also didn't put a foot wrong when he went back to his natural centre back position

Obviously when you put 2 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders in midfield, you can expect no pace and littel creativity. But i was surprised that our midfield lost the physical battle. It was good to see Dobbo back but it was obvious he was not fully fit. Keates worked hard and did well to score, albeit with a dodgy deflection. Pead struggled in midfield. Fox competed with Sam (but lost out) for the worst player on the pitch. Fox is not even good enough to play in his natural left back position, so i still fail to see what playing him at left wing is going to achieve? I actually got confused at times, who exactly was playing left back today, him or Taylor? But most of Barnets threats in the 1st half came from the right hand side

Up front Butler worked hard. We know if you give him service, he will get goals but he had to feed on scraps. Apart from the goal, we really only had one other effort on target. As for Sam, at least after today there can be no question that Constable (was he injured today?) should now be a regular starter with Butler, till DD brings in another striker. Constable has scored goals at Div 1 level. Sam is struggling to even have a shot on goal, let alone actually score at division 2 level. When Ian Roper scores more and looks more likely to score than Sam in the games i have seen, then you know there are problems!

Fangeiro improved things when he came on. But real impact was by Demon and Wright. It was apparent that Barnet didn't have a clue what to do when they ran at them. After one thrilling Demon run past 4 defenders, Barnet just resorted to fouling Demon. Very pleasantly surprised to see Demon laughing after the challenges and Barnet players who fouled him got booked. The 'Barnet fans' (Arsenal were not playing this weekend!) i went to the match with were saying they thought we were lucky to get a point but also they were glad that we didn't play our pacy wingers from the start

Of course there were positives. We don't look like conceding many goals even when we play poorly. And we look very hard to beat whether we play well or badly. My post may be a little harsh considering we got a point away from home, but Swindon, Lincoln, Franchise etc also had hard games but ground out wins and if we want to go up automatically, its important we stay in touch and don't put too much pressure on our home games. But if we can get in some one to take the pressure of Butler, not play an entirely defensive midfield and with Wracky, Beadeau, Nicholls etc all to come, we will get stronger

[Neuromantic]

I cant believe were moaning already.

[cyclothymic]

I cant believe were moaning already.

:wink:

... and I do agree that it is far too early to moan. Let's wait until we get beaten first!

[sj]

I still think that the way Dicky plays away from home is a good tactic. It nearly worked today. We all know that most games are won in the second half. So in the first half you play a defensive tight game hoping to nick a goal but planning to "Draw the Sting" and you blast them in the next 45 mins.


Look at it this way,say we started with the team that finished yesterday and it was 0-0 at half time. Where do you go and what do you do with the personnel we have at the club at the moment?

And another thing Barnet are a good team they were up for it yesterday and looked very good going foreward.


I think DD had it spot on yesterday-- teams aint going to roll-over and die for us. We need skill and guile in the players and the same attributes in the manager and I just think we do in Dicky Dosh.

[Duke]

I cant believe were moaning already.

I dont want to appear like i'm moaning, its just i feel we have pace on both wings , we are not making the best use of .

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I cant believe were moaning already.

It's the Walsall way my freind :wink:

[Stu]

I cant believe were moaning already.

Difference between moaning and offering a true perspective of how the match went, and how we could have improved.

[North Staffs Saddler]

Sounds like we lack width!


I am sure I just heard Leamore calling for Wright to be brought on :shock:

Are you on drugs, Cyclo?!?

I think Cyclo Lives In a parallel universe Leamore where MW plays on the right for England. Its called Telford :D

[cyclothymic]

Sounds like we lack width!


I am sure I just heard Leamore calling for Wright to be brought on :shock:

Are you on drugs, Cyclo?!?

I think Cyclo Lives In a parallel universe Leamore where MW plays on the right for England. Its called Telford :D

You two make me smile :D :D :D

The MW fan club's founder members :P

[Mozza_saddler]

this thread got me thinking of what winger options we have, so why wasnt bedaeu even on the bench??? surely he still cant be injured

[Stu]

I still think that the way Dicky plays away from home is a good tactic. It nearly worked today. We all know that most games are won in the second half. So in the first half you play a defensive tight game hoping to nick a goal but planning to "Draw the Sting" and you blast them in the next 45 mins.


Look at it this way,say we started with the team that finished yesterday and it was 0-0 at half time. Where do you go and what do you do with the personnel we have at the club at the moment?

And another thing Barnet are a good team they were up for it yesterday and looked very good going foreward.


I think DD had it spot on yesterday-- teams aint going to roll-over and die for us. We need skill and guile in the players and the same attributes in the manager and I just think we do in Dicky Dosh.

Really cannot agree with that... A decent team would have buried us by half time, Barnet were not a good team and were not good going forward... They had no idea how to create any real chances out of open play, fortunately for us. If they'd had half a brain, they'd have been 3 up by half time.

We went in 1-0 because of how bad Barnet were... Tactics like that away from home will not work as we didn't create a single chance in the first half.

[Jorge14]

We have played 7 matches so far this season and DD has tried a number of different combinations in most positions, but he has never played Pead and Fox as our two full backs.

I think that is because last season we were absolutely crucified down our flanks. I'd say that at least 50% of the goals came from crosses which either Pead or Fox should have done much better with. DD has seen the videos from last season and is attempting to rectify this. It is working on the left flank in my opinion, but we are still much too exposed on the right.

[Registered Saddler]

We have played 7 matches so far this season and DD has tried a number of different combinations in most positions, but he has never played Pead and Fox as our two full backs.

I think that is because last season we were absolutely crucified down our flanks. I'd say that at least 50% of the goals came from crosses which either Pead or Fox should have done much better with. DD has seen the videos from last season and is attempting to rectify this. It is working on the left flank in my opinion, but we are still much too exposed on the right.

Don't recall much coming down their left hand side when we had Pead + Wright down there. Ditto Rochdale when it was the same pair.

[Magic Man Fan]

It's hard to be critical because ultimately we are still unbeaten and got a point away...but I will try. :)

Why did Dosh not learn from his mistake in the first half against Lincoln. It's not the players it's the team selection and system I'm afraid and Dosh must take responsibility and the blame.

The starting midfield yesterday was Colin Lee like, not width, no pace and no good if we want to score goals. We are already short of players who can score goals even with chances so if we don't create what are we likely to do?

I don't mind the defensive stance if we offer something on the counter attack like we did under Graydon but you can't do this with no pace. I appreciate he's reluctant to start with ASBO because of his temper but he's gone a few games now and shown no sign of it. Even still he can start Wright to at least give us some pace and bring Ishy on later.

Ince handled well but his kicking was awful. He kicked the ball straight out of play on the left 3 times in the second half. I appreciate the wind was strong and playing a part but why did he repeatedly kick from the left of his box if it was going out on that side. Kick from the right or stop trying to be clever and kick it down the middle of the pitch instead of trying to pick out a player but kicking it out and conceding possession.

Defensively we looked ok. Westwood looked far more comfortable at centre half and got in some good headers in the second half. Gerrard has his best game, probably in 2006 and was MOTM for me.

Dobson clearly wasn't fit and shouldn't have played and Keates was far more effective. No point in rushing players back if they're not fit. Pead and Fox as wingers. Pointless. At least put Kris Taylor in front of Fox who offers more going foward which we badly needed in the first half.

Wright did well when he came on, he won the ball with some good tackles and got into some good positions as he did against Plymouth. Unfortunately unlike at Plymouth he didn't lay the simple ball off for someone to finish but he shot tamely three times although the one was saved/blocked well by the keeper/defender. I can't aim any more criticism at him though, like at Plymouth he turned the game and the chances created were of his own making which is pleasing.

As I've said for a while, Sam isn't a striker who is going to score goals. Just after we'd equalised, Ishy had gone on another good run and slipped a perfect thru ball to him on the edge of the box. Any player with a strikers instinct would have let the ball run past turned and shot past the keeper. Sam kept his back to goal, stopped the ball and let the defenders catch up with play. Rubbish.

We are in desperate need of a striker in my opinion. I appreciate we have Bedeau coming back but he's not a striker by trade and who knows how Nicholl will respond after a long term injury? Anyone, Asaba, Wijnhard, anyone who can help Butler out who is working his nuts off with no help whatsoever (apart from when Constable plays).

As I say I don't like being critical but we're all making the same comments and they are all constructive. We made the mistake against Lincoln and got away with it, we did again yesterday. In my opinion we didn't deserve the draw. The performance was Merson-like in that we played for 20 minutes and expected to win the game.

Be a little more positive and we can play the teams in this league off the park. If not, it could cost us if we keep repeating performances like that and the first half at Lincoln.

PS - Nice to see Pedro, Mersiahs Disciple, Sheff, Doffer, stafflers, Joe 90, Surrey Saddler and lots of others I have probably forgotten about.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the stunning barmaid in the Red Lion. I predicted a 2 page thread about her on here. :P

Pedro, Gary Ellison and Mersiahs Disciple wanted their picture took with her so I've got one on my phone. I'll post it when I can download it on my other PC.

[Geordiesaddler]

I disagree that of the two away games Grimsby will be harder than Barnet. Grimsby are absolute rubbish and havn't won a game since the opening day of the season when they edged out Boston in a micky-mouse game of comic defending.

I fully expect us to go there and get three points if we perform anything like we can. Barnet on the other hand are now 4 games unbeaten, all of those games were against decent sides as well. I agree though, against Grimsby I would go for it from the start.

As for Ishy, let's not forget that a few weeks ago he was virtually unplayable, a complete liability even as a sub. DD seems to be going some way to getting him to perform so let's give credit where credit is due rather than going down the "budding Alex Ferguson" route. DD sees things from the inside and thus far his judgement seems to pretty much spot on.

I would definitely start with Fangueiro and Constable next week, but I wouldn't risk Ishy from the start as yet, I think he needs to rack up a number of sub appearances and reserve games without any sign of trouble before he earns that right, and being forced to earn his starting place is part of his rehab IMO.

[WFC_Rob]

Poor performance and a rather lucky point. Yes conditions were atrocious. Yes Underhill is like the land the time forgot. Yes the ref was a joke. But bottom line is if you are going to go up automatically, you have to come to Barnet and win

I appreciate what you are saying, but at the present time, I am inclined to disgaree. If we average 2 points per game over the course of the season, we will go up. We have a 100% record at home so far, which means that we can afford to draw our away games. Yes, I agree that we would all prefer to see us beating the likes of Barnet, home or away. The thing is, Barnet are one of those sides who are difficult to play against. Firstly, they have the strangest pitch in the football league and the slope definitely makes a difference. Secondly, their stadium (or field with a couple of stands) means that when the conditions are awkward, as they were yesterday, it is very hard to play. When you bear in mind that they will be a lot more used to this than any other team they play, you can see why other teams struggle.
Barnet even adapt their game to the conditions. Every ball from the back was long and it hung in the wind. Even the balls on the floor were difficult to deal with because of the slope.

I'm by no means making excuses for what i think was a below-par performance, but as with Lincoln, I don't see that many teams going there and picking up all three points, especially if Barnet play in the way they did yesterday.

[SheffieldSaddler]

Absolutely awful yesterday. Only good thing yesterday was the night out in Barnet!
And that was breath taking!

[Stu]

I appreciate what you are saying, but at the present time, I am inclined to disgaree. If we average 2 points per game over the course of the season, we will go up.

Not neccessarily, because there are 4 teams above us all averaging the same or more... No reason to suggest they're less likely to do that than we are.

My other concern is that we don't score enough goals, 9 goals in 6 matches, thats 69 a season... Automatic promotion and play offs probably needs more than that (although I haven't checked), unless we go through the season conceding less than 35 goals, which i highly doubt.

[Magic Man Fan]

Absolutely awful yesterday. Only good thing yesterday was the night out in Barnet!
And that was breath taking!

Pervert. :D I'm not surprised though judging by some of the sights down the High Street before and after the game.

[WFC_Rob]

I appreciate what you are saying, but at the present time, I am inclined to disgaree. If we average 2 points per game over the course of the season, we will go up.

Not neccessarily, because there are 4 teams above us all averaging the same or more... No reason to suggest they're less likely to do that than we are.

Maybe so, but we all have to play eachother yet. To average the 2 points per game I think we need, we would have to take points from all of those sides, which I fully exect us to. They will also take points off eachother.

[Magic Man Fan]

I appreciate what you are saying, but at the present time, I am inclined to disgaree. If we average 2 points per game over the course of the season, we will go up.

Not neccessarily, because there are 4 teams above us all averaging the same or more... No reason to suggest they're less likely to do that than we are.

My other concern is that we don't score enough goals, 9 goals in 6 matches, thats 69 a season... Automatic promotion and play offs probably needs more than that (although I haven't checked), unless we go through the season conceding less than 35 goals, which i highly doubt.

That's my concern and it's not because we don't have players capable of scoring goals, it's because we won't create enough chances if we play such a defensive formation as yesterday's first half.

[merse-iah's disciple]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the stunning barmaid in the Red Lion. I predicted a 2 page thread about her on here. :P

Pedro, Gary Ellison and Mersiahs Disciple wanted their picture took with her so I've got one on my phone. I'll post it when I can download it on my other PC.

You pointed her out and said "two pages guaranteed" so i innocently mentioned getting her photo on UTS, after you, Pedro and Gaz bottled asking her, i did - if you look at the photo Pedro is trying to push me out of frame!

Reckon we should do that every away game - a "Barmaid of the Week" if you will. Obviously Nottingham will get a full page spread :wink:

[PT]

Agree with the concerns muted about the mentality we went into yesterdays game with. We went into it trying to nick a game against a side who are frankly awful. Our best available 11 players, playing in their right positions should be filled with enough confidence to go to barnet and try to beat them. A little bit of arrogance is no bad thing in sport and we should expect to beat sides like that.
My first trip to see us in London since Brentford last year when we lost 5-0 in mersons last game. DD's plan "A" yesterday, actually wasn't disimilar to Merse's in that game. Luckily DD has a plan B and C and seems to read the game far better and react far quicker when things are going wrong. In my opinion though plan B (i.e 4 full backs is possibly two to many and we should be confident enough to "go for it" with creative rather than holding wide men) should become plan A.
Great support again yesterday. Well done everyone!

[Magic Man Fan]

Reckon we should do that every away game - a "Barmaid of the Week" if you will. Obviously Nottingham will get a full page spread :wink:

I think they may spill onto a double page spread. :wink: By "they" I meant the pictures. :shock:

Great post PT.