Carmarthen Town (a) Tuesday 25th July

[Stu]

Its nothing about having Jimmy Walker in goal, its about the ability of the player himself...

I wasn't the only one to hope we didn't sign him pre-season, the bloke has been a liability whenver I've seen him... And thats now two matches for us he has looked a liability by all accounts.

Its about judging a player on his ability, not having a pet hate...

[geoffwhiting]

Anyway Ince has my backing, he may let 3 in nut we got Butler and Hector to score 4 to win us the game :D

Now that statement certainly has a certain "Mersonesque" ring to it ! :D

Seriously though, I think we must give every one of the players the chance to settle into the side and make their mark. Criticism will wait until later - a LOT later !

[tinned]

Yeah, sorry for (another) delay.

Won 3 - 2. Butler had one ruled out right at the end.

Can't quite remember the substitutions now, but Ishy came on and then later went off. Sam was replaced by Westwood :shock: (Leamore reckons it's because keeping the lead in an international game (even if it's a friendly) is of the utmost importance).

Don't want to find my next boo boy, and won't start criticising until I've seen a lot more of him, but it appears there is already a pattern developing with Incey Wincey Spider.

[Pedro]

Its nothing about having Jimmy Walker in goal, its about the ability of the player himself...

I wasn't the only one to hope we didn't sign him pre-season, the bloke has been a liability whenver I've seen him... And thats now two matches for us he has looked a liability by all accounts.

Its about judging a player on his ability, not having a pet hate...

But people are always going to compare who ever we have in goal with Jimmy .Walker was a one off a great player who we did very well to keep for so long .

I not really like Daniel Fox , his attitude towards the end of the season stunk and so did his form, Im still going to back him as its the start of the season as long as he gives his all .Something he was not doing at the end of the season

[WFC_Rob]

who the shrews signed

They've signed Chris MacKenzie who has been Chester's goalkeeper for the last 2 years and Ryan Esson who was signed from Aberdeen and has been in the Scotland squad previously.
People underestimate how important it is to have a quality goalkeeper behind the rest of the team.

[Pedro]

Never heard of any of them

Our keeper has just come back from the World Cup

If you have to experience keepers you are always going to upset someone.

Walker/Wood
Walker/Emberson
Walker/Harper
Walker/Ward
Walker err Petterson :D

Do agree tho we do need a older head as back up tho

[WFC_Rob]

Never heard of any of them

Our keeper has just come back from the World Cup

He must be a world-class goalkeeper then! :roll:
Don't be so silly.
I know little about the goalkpeers Shrewsbury have signed either, but have seen them both play and hey both look reasonably solid and consistent. Ince's probelm is that the defenders haven't a clue what he's going to do next. This means thay can't trust him with backpasses etc, which just makes us needlessly pressurised at the back all the time.

I agree that having 2 quality keepers means that one will be unhappy, but I'm not convinced we even have one quality goalkeeper at the moment.

[Welsh_Saddler]

As I didn't make notes during the game, this will be a disjointed series of observations (nothing new there, then).

Communication between Ince and his defence, and particularly Gerrard, did improve as the game went on - it had to, because for the first twenty minutes or so it was non-existent. Gerrard was highly vocal towards Ince at the time, probably with some justification.

Paed had an absolute nightmare - the Carmarthen left winger skinned him time after time, and one plus point to Ince is that he has a habit of catching the ball cleanly - I don't think he palmed it away once, and with his height and bulk he is commanding in the air.

Gerrard and Roper were solid enough, if you allow for the occasional disaster of the ball bouncing over them off the hard surface which allowed their forwards to chase!!!

We had our first shot (of any kind) after 25 minutes. Some quite neat approach play between midfield and Sam/Butler, but all too often the forwards seemed shot-shy. One pass too many was the order of the day, and on the edge of a crowded penalty area the short pass had every chance of being intercepted.

Butler looked very sharp, as did Sam, as did Wright and Taylor. Lots of effort, and tracking back. Keates was in the thick of things in midfield, always wanting to be part of the action and more times than not he was looking to try and find players on forward runs. Hoofing and hoping did occur occasionally, but usually it was the result of over-ambition.

The opening goal (to Carmarthen) was the result of a hard bounce over the defence followed by a cracking shot past Ince (he had no real chance). Fox appealed long and loudly with the linesman that Carmarthen's second goal was offside, but I think it had been Fox himself who played them on. This was late on, and perhaps Fox was tiring - he had been a combination of Left back and Left wing the whole game.

Bedeau came on late as a substitute, looked neat without being threatening. Ishy also came on as a sub, got involved in one or two tangles with the opposition and was himself substituted, possibly to avoid any real trouble from the referee, who had an excellent game.

Kinsella's role puzzled me - he seemed to be playing "one across the park between midfield and attack", and spent most of the time looking at the ball as it was played forward by Keates/Gerrard/Roper or back by the Carmarthen defence.

Altogether a bit like the Parson's nose - good in parts. Certainly it was a good work-out, because Carmarthen are no mugs; one or two of their forwards were playing their socks off, and the questions they posed went largely unanswered by a Walsall defence that looked leaden-footed at times.

However, the performance as a whole showed a Walsall team with an enormous increase in energy from the dismal displays I witnessed last season. I know it was only a friendly, but when we went 1-0 down there was no dropping of heads (as there certainly would have been under Maul Person). Keates took the captain's armband and I thought did a good job. Sam, after a hesitant start, showed he knew where the goal was. Butler did look very sharp, and if he and Sam form the front partnership they will cause all sorts of problems for the opposition.

Ishmel needs more attention to his anger management tuition, as does Fox, who benefitted from an understanding referee.... Fox was admittedly scythed down after passing the ball, and his reaction was to immediately stand up and face the offender from a distance of about one inch; he was about to reach either (a) to his opponent's shirt and grab it at nipple level or (b) reach behind him for his handbag and give him hell, when the ref stepped between them with some homely words of wisdom. Both the tackle and the reaction would probably have been yellow-carded in the World Cup.

Summary (at last)...... an OK performance against (on paper) supposedly weaker opposition. As confidence increases as it should, hopefully we will lean more towards a "shoot on sight" policy - as the game went on, this proved highly effective for Sam.

Oh, and Ince does have one useful weapon - if it's route one you're after, his kicks from free play (not goal kicks in other words) can be tremendous. It's like having a corner, and it put me in mind of John Savage. The more mature among you may remember John, who stood around 6foot 7inches, and could belt the ball directly on to the penalty spot at the other end of the ground, easy.

Thanks for your patience !!!!!!!

[Jolly Johnny]

Looks like we'll have to put up with some comedy goals again this season!!

Don't want to judge Ince as I haven't seen him play but from what people are saying on here he is misjudging quite a bit - I think Mike Kearns has a lot of work to do over the next few weeks!

Anyway, moving on...! Seems like DD is really considering Fox at left midfield as he has played there in a number of pre-season friendlies. What do people think of this from what they have seen over the last couple of weeks? If Kris Taylor was so 'out of position' when he played there last year, what is the best solution for that position?

[Jolly Johnny]

Sorry I meant Kris Taylor as a LEFT BACK and any other solutions.

[coxy_saddler]

As I didn't make notes during the game, this will be a disjointed series of observations (nothing new there, then).

Communication between Ince and his defence, and particularly Gerrard, did improve as the game went on - it had to, because for the first twenty minutes or so it was non-existent. Gerrard was highly vocal towards Ince at the time, probably with some justification.

Paed had an absolute nightmare - the Carmarthen left winger skinned him time after time, and one plus point to Ince is that he has a habit of catching the ball cleanly - I don't think he palmed it away once, and with his height and bulk he is commanding in the air.

Gerrard and Roper were solid enough, if you allow for the occasional disaster of the ball bouncing over them off the hard surface which allowed their forwards to chase!!!

We had our first shot (of any kind) after 25 minutes. Some quite neat approach play between midfield and Sam/Butler, but all too often the forwards seemed shot-shy. One pass too many was the order of the day, and on the edge of a crowded penalty area the short pass had every chance of being intercepted.

Butler looked very sharp, as did Sam, as did Wright and Taylor. Lots of effort, and tracking back. Keates was in the thick of things in midfield, always wanting to be part of the action and more times than not he was looking to try and find players on forward runs. Hoofing and hoping did occur occasionally, but usually it was the result of over-ambition.

The opening goal (to Carmarthen) was the result of a hard bounce over the defence followed by a cracking shot past Ince (he had no real chance). Fox appealed long and loudly with the linesman that Carmarthen's second goal was offside, but I think it had been Fox himself who played them on. This was late on, and perhaps Fox was tiring - he had been a combination of Left back and Left wing the whole game.

Bedeau came on late as a substitute, looked neat without being threatening. Ishy also came on as a sub, got involved in one or two tangles with the opposition and was himself substituted, possibly to avoid any real trouble from the referee, who had an excellent game.

Kinsella's role puzzled me - he seemed to be playing "one across the park between midfield and attack", and spent most of the time looking at the ball as it was played forward by Keates/Gerrard/Roper or back by the Carmarthen defence.

Altogether a bit like the Parson's nose - good in parts. Certainly it was a good work-out, because Carmarthen are no mugs; one or two of their forwards were playing their socks off, and the questions they posed went largely unanswered by a Walsall defence that looked leaden-footed at times.

However, the performance as a whole showed a Walsall team with an enormous increase in energy from the dismal displays I witnessed last season. I know it was only a friendly, but when we went 1-0 down there was no dropping of heads (as there certainly would have been under Maul Person). Keates took the captain's armband and I thought did a good job. Sam, after a hesitant start, showed he knew where the goal was. Butler did look very sharp, and if he and Sam form the front partnership they will cause all sorts of problems for the opposition.

Ishmel needs more attention to his anger management tuition, as does Fox, who benefitted from an understanding referee.... Fox was admittedly scythed down after passing the ball, and his reaction was to immediately stand up and face the offender from a distance of about one inch; he was about to reach either (a) to his opponent's shirt and grab it at nipple level or (b) reach behind him for his handbag and give him hell, when the ref stepped between them with some homely words of wisdom. Both the tackle and the reaction would probably have been yellow-carded in the World Cup.

Summary (at last)...... an OK performance against (on paper) supposedly weaker opposition. As confidence increases as it should, hopefully we will lean more towards a "shoot on sight" policy - as the game went on, this proved highly effective for Sam.

Oh, and Ince does have one useful weapon - if it's route one you're after, his kicks from free play (not goal kicks in other words) can be tremendous. It's like having a corner, and it put me in mind of John Savage. The more mature among you may remember John, who stood around 6foot 7inches, and could belt the ball directly on to the penalty spot at the other end of the ground, easy.

Thanks for your patience !!!!!!!

Thanks for the info WS, I agree with you on Ince's kicks..When he connects sweetly with them. They can go for miles!! May come handy this season..
UTS

[Stu]

But people are always going to compare who ever we have in goal with Jimmy .Walker was a one off a great player who we did very well to keep for so long .

Only the idiots will compare him with Walker, anyone else who knows diddly-squat about lower division keepers, or even Sunday morning keepers themselves, will comment on his ability alone.

I think we could have signed better keepers, other teams at our level have signed betters keepers further more.

I played youth team semi pro, and I tell ya, everytime Ince comes for a cross I get the jitters.

I'm not naive enough to think we'll get anyone even half as good as Walker, but what I do want is as good as we can get, and I think we've panicked a bit into signing Ince for whatever reason. Thats all... I'd love him to prove me wrong, but based on what I've seen of him in person, and on tv highlights, plus his start for us, well, I'm yet to be convinced.

[geoffwhiting]

Oh, and Ince does have one useful weapon - if it's route one you're after, his kicks from free play (not goal kicks in other words) can be tremendous. It's like having a corner, and it put me in mind of John Savage. The more mature among you may remember John, who stood around 6foot 7inches, and could belt the ball directly on to the penalty spot at the other end of the ground, easy.

Thanks for your patience !!!!!!!

So who the hell was John Savage? Never even heard of him!

Not even when he got sent off at Reading for kicking their player up in the air.

Not even when the ball used to come down from such an altitude that it had ice on it !

I guess I must be too young ! :lol: :lol:

[Exile]

I guess I must be too young ! :lol: :lol:

You wish :mrgreen:

thanks Welsh - enjoyed the Parson's Nose comparison, and a few comments of yours regarding route one and build-up. Could be an interesting season ahead. Hopefully, a scraped win against the pit ponies, who've had a good pre-season apparently, could bode well.

[Duke]

As I didn't make notes during the game, this will be a disjointed series of observations (nothing new there, then).

Communication between Ince and his defence, and particularly Gerrard, did improve as the game went on - it had to, because for the first twenty minutes or so it was non-existent. Gerrard was highly vocal towards Ince at the time, probably with some justification.

Paed had an absolute nightmare - the Carmarthen left winger skinned him time after time, and one plus point to Ince is that he has a habit of catching the ball cleanly - I don't think he palmed it away once, and with his height and bulk he is commanding in the air.

Gerrard and Roper were solid enough, if you allow for the occasional disaster of the ball bouncing over them off the hard surface which allowed their forwards to chase!!!

We had our first shot (of any kind) after 25 minutes. Some quite neat approach play between midfield and Sam/Butler, but all too often the forwards seemed shot-shy. One pass too many was the order of the day, and on the edge of a crowded penalty area the short pass had every chance of being intercepted.

Butler looked very sharp, as did Sam, as did Wright and Taylor. Lots of effort, and tracking back. Keates was in the thick of things in midfield, always wanting to be part of the action and more times than not he was looking to try and find players on forward runs. Hoofing and hoping did occur occasionally, but usually it was the result of over-ambition.

The opening goal (to Carmarthen) was the result of a hard bounce over the defence followed by a cracking shot past Ince (he had no real chance). Fox appealed long and loudly with the linesman that Carmarthen's second goal was offside, but I think it had been Fox himself who played them on. This was late on, and perhaps Fox was tiring - he had been a combination of Left back and Left wing the whole game.

Bedeau came on late as a substitute, looked neat without being threatening. Ishy also came on as a sub, got involved in one or two tangles with the opposition and was himself substituted, possibly to avoid any real trouble from the referee, who had an excellent game.

Kinsella's role puzzled me - he seemed to be playing "one across the park between midfield and attack", and spent most of the time looking at the ball as it was played forward by Keates/Gerrard/Roper or back by the Carmarthen defence.

Altogether a bit like the Parson's nose - good in parts. Certainly it was a good work-out, because Carmarthen are no mugs; one or two of their forwards were playing their socks off, and the questions they posed went largely unanswered by a Walsall defence that looked leaden-footed at times.

However, the performance as a whole showed a Walsall team with an enormous increase in energy from the dismal displays I witnessed last season. I know it was only a friendly, but when we went 1-0 down there was no dropping of heads (as there certainly would have been under Maul Person). Keates took the captain's armband and I thought did a good job. Sam, after a hesitant start, showed he knew where the goal was. Butler did look very sharp, and if he and Sam form the front partnership they will cause all sorts of problems for the opposition.

Ishmel needs more attention to his anger management tuition, as does Fox, who benefitted from an understanding referee.... Fox was admittedly scythed down after passing the ball, and his reaction was to immediately stand up and face the offender from a distance of about one inch; he was about to reach either (a) to his opponent's shirt and grab it at nipple level or (b) reach behind him for his handbag and give him hell, when the ref stepped between them with some homely words of wisdom. Both the tackle and the reaction would probably have been yellow-carded in the World Cup.

Summary (at last)...... an OK performance against (on paper) supposedly weaker opposition. As confidence increases as it should, hopefully we will lean more towards a "shoot on sight" policy - as the game went on, this proved highly effective for Sam.

Oh, and Ince does have one useful weapon - if it's route one you're after, his kicks from free play (not goal kicks in other words) can be tremendous. It's like having a corner, and it put me in mind of John Savage. The more mature among you may remember John, who stood around 6foot 7inches, and could belt the ball directly on to the penalty spot at the other end of the ground, easy.

Thanks for your patience !!!!!!!

great report WS many thanks

[cyclothymic]

Ince to score this season then from a goal kick :D

[Cheesebag]

Swansea fans view on last night.....

http://www.footballforums.net/forums/le ... -fans.html

[Exile]

Thanks for that link cheesey - rude reply duly posted :wink:

[WFC_Rob]

Anyway, moving on...! Seems like DD is really considering Fox at left midfield as he has played there in a number of pre-season friendlies. What do people think of this from what they have seen over the last couple of weeks? If Kris Taylor was so 'out of position' when he played there last year, what is the best solution for that position?

Personally, I prefer having Fox at left back. I can see Money's reasons behind playing him in midfield however - he wants us to be organised, solid and hard to beat, so therefore plays a more conservative player on the left in Fox, who will track back and help out defensively. Ishmel struggles to do this.
The one thing that I do think though is that if we're going to play Fox on the left, we do need more creativity in the middle of the park as the wide players aren't going to create enough chances.

[Magic Man Fan]

Pedro, it's often I disagree with you but Ince is a clown. I mentioned it when it was first announced we had him on trial, I mentioned it when he signed, I mentioned it when he came racing off his line against WBA (not the own goal incident) for no apparent reason and I mentioned it again when he gifted Villa at least two goals.

I will now mention it again. He is a clown.

This opinion was forged long before he was even linked to us. In EVERY game I have seen him play including a few for Crewe he has gifted the opposition an easy chance to score.

This has got bugger all to do with comparing him to Walker or anyone else for that matter.

Defenders (and me) like dependable goalkeepers that they can trust. Not keepers that come racing out of their box for no apparent reason.

I've no doubt he's a good shotstopper but his positional sense is awful.

There were plenty of experienced goalkeepers we could have got within budget. Who cares if we'd never heard of them or they hadn't been an unused substitute to a 38 year old for a cricketing nation in the World Cup? :)

From what I'd seen of Coleman and Gilmartin I would prefer them. They have faults but at least are young so have an excuse. These faults can be ironed out with the excellent coaching from Mick Kearns like Wacka's were. Ince's faults can't because he's older and they're now part of his game.

I'm positive about this season but if there's one thing holding us back like the last 2 years then it's the goalkeeper situation. In my opinion we can cope without a creative midfielder or cover at full back for the time being but we can't cope with a goalkeeper that will give the opposition a head start.

[StarSaddler]

i didn't want my first post to be negative, but i totally agree that ince is a clown
he really scares me and as for the communication with the players, well him and gerrard had a bit of a to do again yesterday. i am just hoping that things will improve for the start of the season.

[r_a_perks]

Ince is a clown. I mentioned it when it was first announced we had him on trial, I mentioned it when he signed

Who can forget that brilliant clown music you posted! :lol:

[Magic Man Fan]

Ince is a clown. I mentioned it when it was first announced we had him on trial, I mentioned it when he signed

Who can forget that brilliant clown music you posted! :lol:

:D Just for those who missed it.

http://www.euchronia.net/sotc/tandb22.m3u

[Whitti Steve]

Ince is a clown. I mentioned it when it was first announced we had him on trial, I mentioned it when he signed

Who can forget that brilliant clown music you posted! :lol:

:D Just for those who missed it.

http://www.euchronia.net/sotc/tandb22.m3u

I must have missed it first time - but it was worth the wait!

[YGA Saddler]

If Ive said it once Ive said it a thousand times Craig Pead is NOT a right back! Hes too vulnerable in that position.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

If Ive said it once Ive said it a thousand times Craig Pead is NOT a right back! Hes too vulnerable in that position.

I that case, I don't know what he is. Left back (in the dressing room) perhaps?

[Stu]

I think he is more than adequate at right back for our level to be honest...

99% of wingers at our level are going to struggle against anybody with pace, Ishmel has made good full backs we've played against look like fools because of his pace.

Danny Fox is a decent player, but we've seen him run ragged by someone with a bit of pace.

[Duke]

As i said on another thread , full backs need cover from wingers.
We did'nt have that last season ,under a proper manager that will change.