Mansfield Town (A) League Saturday 20/1/07

[Graydon48]

The second goal must have been handball, Ince seemed to be in control, hands ready to catch it, next moment its dribbling over the line.
Having said that Ince should have made it his handball or not. Wasn't the best cross in the world was it.
And why the hell did Taylor who as somebody has already said had a mare not clear the ball. Then there would have been no handball debate.
Why didn't we play a passing game in the match. Simple Mansfeild were up for it, gave us no time on the ball to look up and pass it most the time.
Galls me to say it but we was out muscled and out played for the last 80 min, we got what we deserved, nothing.
Plus sides, none except midle aged woman next to us slagging off Wright and young lady in front of us having a heated row with her sticking up for Wright. They almost came to blows, sadly it was more entertaining than the entire game.

[philthesaddler]

Scored the goal, looked like we were going to take them to the cleaners, then we .... just....... disappeared. Little application, marginal effort, no clue whatsoever with passes etc.

We didn't deserve anything from the game. Saying that we didn't deserve to lsoe. Mansfield were the better team but I'm convinced their second goal was knocked in by his hand. A few people are refuting that saying Clayton dropped it, I agree he did sem to fumble but sitting right behind the goal it did seem it was a "hand of God" type goal. Anyway Taylore should be blamed, he had the ball just outside the box and under no pressure turned it into the path of their player.

Dave I was also behind the goal, my first reaction to the second goal.....hand ball

Read my post guys, exactly what I thought. Even used the same words as you dave. 'Hand of god'

[philthesaddler]

If its any consolation, neither Kearns/Wilford saw any problem with their 2nd goal... No question of handball, no question of a push, they didn't even mention the possibility, just put it down to a keepers error.

:lol:

To be fair stu, if thats what they said, its probably the opposite. I thought it was handball before I came on here, from what other people have said, my original suspicion was correct, it was a hand of god.

[philthesaddler]

Oh and one more thing, did anyone hear the woman in the first half who just stood up out of the blue and shout

"get f*cking in to him"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I take credit for the " PMT " chant :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Duke]

Very dissapointing after a great start we scored then totally switched off.
Before Mansfield's first goal they carved us open twice our defence fell asleep we did'nt learn the lesson and payed the price. The second goal was hand ball no question about , the ref was dreadful why Dann was booked i'll never know. time and time again he made the wrong decisions.
Cederqvist needs time to adjust to english football i thought we looked better second half when Sam replaced him.

Its not easy to pick out MOTM but Westwood did'nt do a lot wrong . on the other hand Fox was very poor , Dobson worked hard and broke up a lot of Mansfield's play.

On a brighter side its was great to meet more UTS members , Blazing Saddler and the lovely Linda , and i nearly met Geordie had it not been for a call of nature , maybe next time big fella.

[Stu]

If its any consolation, neither Kearns/Wilford saw any problem with their 2nd goal... No question of handball, no question of a push, they didn't even mention the possibility, just put it down to a keepers error.

:lol:

To be fair stu, if thats what they said, its probably the opposite. I thought it was handball before I came on here, from what other people have said, my original suspicion was correct, it was a hand of god.

Fairy muff, you lot were there, I was painting a kitchen and putting together a side-board and a new kitchen table...

What was the response of our players, espeically Ince, when the 2nd goal went in? I always find that the give away, if they don't complain, it was the right decision. Official site doesn't even mention any suspicion of it either though.

[Mozza_saddler]

anyone else feel complacency is starting to creep in?

[philthesaddler]

If its any consolation, neither Kearns/Wilford saw any problem with their 2nd goal... No question of handball, no question of a push, they didn't even mention the possibility, just put it down to a keepers error.

:lol:

To be fair stu, if thats what they said, its probably the opposite. I thought it was handball before I came on here, from what other people have said, my original suspicion was correct, it was a hand of god.

Fairy muff, you lot were there, I was painting a kitchen and putting together a side-board and a new kitchen table...

What was the response of our players, espeically Ince, when the 2nd goal went in? I always find that the give away, if they don't complain, it was the right decision. Official site doesn't even mention any suspicion of it either though.

The reaction:

very very weird stu... thats what makes it so strange.

When this kind of thing happens, you normally see the whole defence run and complain, but what actually happened was nothing. The goal was the given, their player looked surprised, his team mates looked surprised, clayton just put his hands on his hips, so did dann and roper.

After 30 seconds, Clayton kind of made a half arsed attempt to run towards the linesman and complain, but I would suggest everyone was so surprised to see it given, that the bemusement kind of took over.

Perhaps Dann and Roper saw it as a header, but it was most definately handball, so its understandable they didnt complain. But still very susprised. The ref looked over to the linesman, waiting for a flag, but it never came - which makes it very similar to the Maradona hand of god incident. Unless you look closely, it looks like a header, but it was a hand ball.

[Duke]

anyone else feel complacency is starting to creep in?

yes i do , as i said we started very well scored then switched of completely

[tinned]

If its any consolation, neither Kearns/Wilford saw any problem with their 2nd goal... No question of handball, no question of a push, they didn't even mention the possibility, just put it down to a keepers error.

:lol:

To be fair stu, if thats what they said, its probably the opposite. I thought it was handball before I came on here, from what other people have said, my original suspicion was correct, it was a hand of god.

Fairy muff, you lot were there, I was painting a kitchen and putting together a side-board and a new kitchen table...

What was the response of our players, espeically Ince, when the 2nd goal went in? I always find that the give away, if they don't complain, it was the right decision. Official site doesn't even mention any suspicion of it either though.

The reaction:

very very weird stu... thats what makes it so strange.

When this kind of thing happens, you normally see the whole defence run and complain, but what actually happened was nothing. The goal was the given, their player looked surprised, his team mates looked surprised, clayton just put his hands on his hips, so did dann and roper.

After 30 seconds, Clayton kind of made a half arsed attempt to run towards the linesman and complain, but I would suggest everyone was so surprised to see it given, that the bemusement kind of took over.

Perhaps Dann and Roper saw it as a header, but it was most definately handball, so its understandable they didnt complain. But still very susprised. The ref looked over to the linesman, waiting for a flag, but it never came - which makes it very similar to the Maradona hand of god incident. Unless you look closely, it looks like a header, but it was a hand ball.

It was a surreal moment. Everyone just waited for the whistle and free-kick. I can't even re-call their fans celebrating for what seemed like ages after the "goal".

[Duke]

It will be very interesting to see the goal on the TV in the morning.

[aaaae]

Anyone remember the Paul Peschisolido (sp?) goal against us for Derby, when he puched the ball through off Ropers toe and ran into Roper. Result Roper sent off, Derby get a penalty which Pesch puts away and we lose. Why do these decisions only go against us?

[cal wfc fan]

Anyone remember the Paul Peschisolido (sp?) goal against us for Derby, when he puched the ball through off Ropers toe and ran into Roper. Result Roper sent off, Derby get a penalty which Pesch puts away and we lose. Why do these decisions only go against us?

I think thats a big problem with our players... they dont get stuck in, or complain about ref's decisions for fear of getting booked or sent off!!!

[hodgy for chile]

I sat in the main stand today, and got chatting to some of their supporters. They suggested that their Chairman, who they roundly abused for most of the first half, is paying some of the poorsest wages in the league and charges the club for use of a practice ground. A great motivation for the team. Despite that these fans were delighted with the commitment and effort of their players today. They were right to be pleased. What Mansfield lacked in skill they made up for in spirit and common sense. They adapted to the conditions....a strong wind and heavy pitch...and they had strength and endeavour, all qualities which we seemed to lack today.

We will now face a lot of heavy pitches and we cannot afford to have lightweight players in key positions. Lightweight today were Taylor, Fox, Wright and Pead. We cannot expect to play one-touch football on muddy, uneven surfaces. We have neither the skill nor the strength.

Cederquvist looked well off the pace and seemed to be playing in the same role as Butler. The only dry and firm areas of the pitch were on the wings, towards the corners...just the place to run at speed and turn the defence. We had no-one capable of doing that today. As the game wore on we got narrower and narrower, and played into the opposition's hands. Sam was our best attacker, but lacked support. Butler was acting as play-maker and never got near goal. Keats made a bit of difference when he came on, but not enough.

Their second goal was a complete disaster. I could see no handball at all, just a total mess-up, first by Taylor in failing to clear, and then by Ince. who simply dropped the ball. It was really embarrasing.

No, I think that DD needs to look at this part of the season differently and see what other wide attacking options we have. It may now be time to rest some of our back four, and introduce players like Lyall, Gerrard, Picken [when fit] Nicholls and Demontagnac.

[Brum]

well if you werent behind the goal you wouldnt have seen the handball would ya?! :x [/code]

[gray]

It looked like a handball to me as well but the reaction of our players (pead had a go at ince) and the people around me saying i was wrong made me think i might have see in wrong so I'm glad there are others who back me up

we were awful today, conditions were terrible but Mansfield dealt with them better. I thought it was going to be a walkover after Roper's wonderstrike but we lost our way. They had more chances and could have been further in front. Their midfield controlled a lot of the game and we didn't really test their keeper.

Cederqvist looked lively and i thought Sam was tidy when he came on and Butler was his hardworking self but they suffered from a lack of service again.

The only highlight of the game was Deano and Gerrard's entertainment at half time and the group of 12 year old mansfield fans trying to taunt us, shame they had the last laugh.

[latviancheese]

Anyone remember the Paul Peschisolido (sp?) goal against us for Derby, when he puched the ball through off Ropers toe and ran into Roper. Result Roper sent off, Derby get a penalty which Pesch puts away and we lose. Why do these decisions only go against us?

I think thats a big problem with our players... they dont get stuck in, or complain about ref's decisions for fear of getting booked or sent off!!!

and whats the gonna do? Get bookings and get sent off themselves, and the decision doesnt change anyway(although the refs are poor at this level and the linesman are truly atrocious)

[ShropsSaddler]

The goal was DEFINITELY handball. Not the slightest doubt in my mind. The reaction of the players was one of bemusement because it was SO obvious that the "goal" was going to be disallowed!!??!!

A poor performance overall with some atrocious displays in particular by Fox, Roper, Dann. Not Ince's best game for us either. The "goal" was still partly his fault because, handball or not, he should have been more positive in claiming it. Add to that the later chance where he was very slow off his line (although not forgetting his great save from Conlon in the first half!).

A couple of specific points in reply to others;

i) Westwood - how can anyone criticise him? On balance, our MoTM I would have thought. One misplaced pass and some idiot shouts "f&ck off back to Wolves".....once again, the intelligence level of some Walsall fans defies belief!!

ii) Fox/Keates - well I had to admit to MMF that I was wrong, we really missed Keates! At least he tries to get involved in the game. Fox hid from the game as much as possible, never held the wing so we had no width and seemed to lose the ball every time he had it.

iii) Sam/Cederquist - Sam should have started. He'd played well in the last couple of games and didn't deserve to be dropped. Looked dangerous when he came on. A mistake by Mr Money, hopefully he'll learn from it.

iv) Taylor - sorry but I don't think he had that bad a game. He was exposed on the left side because Fox was so poor. Yes, he should have cleared it further upfield for the 2nd goal but, when he got the ball, his first thought was to look for a pass to Fox.....who was nowhere to be found, hiding behind a defender as he did all match(see above!!). It's always easy to blame the player who has the ball....but you have to look beyond that and ask who made themselves available for a pass?

v) Wright - not his best game! Quite clearly! But he STILL did what the other wing failed to do....made himself available for the pass and provided width. I hope the coaching staff will be working on his crossing this week!!! But, again, Walsall fans depress me....why cheer when he was substituted? What exactly will that achieve? And did he really deserve that? And please, please explain how some of you can cheer when he's taken off and politely clap when Fox is taken off?!?!?

[saddlerken]

Would echo what many have said, excellent summing up by METFAN

Fox and Wright were really really cack

Fox is not a winger, never has been, it has escaped most peoples attention for most of this season due to Wright being a complete fanny, Tony Crap isn't the answer either as we already know and Keates certainly isn't although he's better at set pieces than Fox.

A new left sided player/or Wrack at his best should play out wide

Their 2nd goal looked ok to me, just a clanger from Ince I'm afraid, I need to see the replay regarding alleged hand ball

We need a new centre midfielder too, Pead isn't the answer (says something about a player that plays with his hands in his sleaves)

[sj]

hodgy for chile--- good post, that exactly how I saw the game. NO hand ball their attacker jumped into Ince and he dropped it. Sould have been a foul thats why the ref looked a the lines-person for so long.

They were up for it we were not.

[Brum]

The goal was DEFINITELY handball. Not the slightest doubt in my mind. The reaction of the players was one of bemusement because it was SO obvious that the "goal" was going to be disallowed!!??!!

A poor performance overall with some atrocious displays in particular by Fox, Roper, Dann. Not Ince's best game for us either. The "goal" was still partly his fault because, handball or not, he should have been more positive in claiming it. Add to that the later chance where he was very slow off his line (although not forgetting his great save from Conlon in the first half!).

A couple of specific points in reply to others;

i) Westwood - how can anyone criticise him? On balance, our MoTM I would have thought. One misplaced pass and some idiot shouts "f&ck off back to Wolves".....once again, the intelligence level of some Walsall fans defies belief!!

ii) Fox/Keates - well I had to admit to MMF that I was wrong, we really missed Keates! At least he tries to get involved in the game. Fox hid from the game as much as possible, never held the wing so we had no width and seemed to lose the ball every time he had it.

iii) Sam/Cederquist - Sam should have started. He'd played well in the last couple of games and didn't deserve to be dropped. Looked dangerous when he came on. A mistake by Mr Money, hopefully he'll learn from it.

iv) Taylor - sorry but I don't think he had that bad a game. He was exposed on the left side because Fox was so poor. Yes, he should have cleared it further upfield for the 2nd goal but, when he got the ball, his first thought was to look for a pass to Fox.....who was nowhere to be found, hiding behind a defender as he did all match(see above!!). It's always easy to blame the player who has the ball....but you have to look beyond that and ask who made themselves available for a pass?

v) Wright - not his best game! Quite clearly! But he STILL did what the other wing failed to do....made himself available for the pass and provided width. I hope the coaching staff will be working on his crossing this week!!! But, again, Walsall fans depress me....why cheer when he was substituted? What exactly will that achieve? And did he really deserve that? And please, please explain how some of you can cheer when he's taken off and politely clap when Fox is taken off?!?!?

totally agree

[ShropsSaddler]

hodgy for chile--- good post, that exactly how I saw the game. NO hand ball their attacker jumped into Ince and he dropped it. Sould have been a foul thats why the ref looked a the lines-person for so long.

Well I guess it wasn't as clear as it seemed to me then....you're not the only person to come on here and say you didn't see handball.

I can DEFINTIELY say it was handball. I think Ince was trying to do his "pluck the ball of the forward's head" thing that he does.....but the hand came just ahead of the head and touched the ball in.

In the circumstances, what Ince should have done was either have been more positive in claiming the ball or, even, punched it.

[Duke]

Westwood did'nt do a lot wrong .
DD was wrong to change things IMO. Sam and Keates should have started.
Second half we look a little better but created very little.

[WFC4Eva]

although i wasn't at the game yesterday.

some of the comments and criticism of players sound like weve lost for the 10th game in a row, not for the THIRD time this season.

Players need our support and backing if we are to achieve the aim of promotion, not criticism. After all we are still top of the league and three points clear.

[Stu]

Westwood did'nt do a lot wrong .
DD was wrong to change things IMO. Sam and Keates should have started.
Second half we look a little better but created very little.

I'd ditto that, as soon as Metfan told me the team before the match I said I thought it was the wrong thing to do.

When your trying to create competition for places, then players who play well and in a winning team should hold their position. After the last win, to drop Keates for Fox and Sam for Cederqvist was like saying "Regardless of performances, I've got my first choice XI and they'll play when they're fit."

Still as said, t'was only the 3rd defeat of the season so no need to worry too much. Every team has off days.

[Stu]

Just seen it on the Championship, no indication of a handball at all there to be honest... He certainly didn't get to it before or at the same time as Ince.

Cross lumped in, Ince jumps and spills/flaps it, drops it literally onto their players chest/arm and he knees it into the net. It may have hit his arm, after Ince spilled it, but thats not handball.

Certainly no "hand of god", the bloke didn't even jump into Ince, he must have been 6-12 inches away from him.

Looks like a simple balls up to me.

[Neuromantic]

Just seen it on the Championship, no indication of a handball at all there to be honest... He certainly didn't get to it before or at the same time as Ince.

Cross lumped in, Ince jumps and spills/flaps it, drops it literally onto their players chest/arm and he knees it into the net. It may have hit his arm, after Ince spilled it, but thats not handball.

Certainly no "hand of god", the bloke didn't even jump into Ince, he must have been 6-12 inches away from him.

Looks like a simple balls up to me.

Which is why I didnt move or shout when it happened at the time, was never hand ball.

[geoffwhiting]

Just seen it on the Championship, no indication of a handball at all there to be honest... He certainly didn't get to it before or at the same time as Ince.

Cross lumped in, Ince jumps and spills/flaps it, drops it literally onto their players chest/arm and he knees it into the net. It may have hit his arm, after Ince spilled it, but thats not handball.

Certainly no "hand of god", the bloke didn't even jump into Ince, he must have been 6-12 inches away from him.

Looks like a simple balls up to me.

I saw it on the Championship too, it looked the way Stu tells it, but I'd need to have another look to be more sure - wish I'd recorded it.

The ball certainly seemed to go in off their players thigh, hip or something in that region, but I didn't see a hand to the ball.

Clayton seemed distracted by their bloke heading towards him, maybe took his eye off the ball, and he certainly seemed to have chance to hold the ball just BEFORE their player clattered him.

[philthesaddler]

Just seen it on the Championship, no indication of a handball at all there to be honest... He certainly didn't get to it before or at the same time as Ince.

Cross lumped in, Ince jumps and spills/flaps it, drops it literally onto their players chest/arm and he knees it into the net. It may have hit his arm, after Ince spilled it, but thats not handball.

Certainly no "hand of god", the bloke didn't even jump into Ince, he must have been 6-12 inches away from him.

Looks like a simple balls up to me.

I saw it on the Championship too, it looked the way Stu tells it, but I'd need to have another look to be more sure - wish I'd recorded it.

The ball certainly seemed to go in off their players thigh, hip or something in that region, but I didn't see a hand to the ball.

Clayton seemed distracted by their bloke heading towards him, maybe took his eye off the ball, and he certainly seemed to have chance to hold the ball just BEFORE their player clattered him.

I've seen it too.

Clayton was just about to catch it, and thats the important moment. What knocked the ball out of Claytons Grasp? To me, it was his upper forearm, which corresponds with why so many have come on here saying hand of god, it definately seems to strike his arm at the moment Clayton is about to catch it. It then hits his head, thigh and goes in.

A Clanger all round, Clayton for not being more decisive, the ref for not spotting an infringement, and taylor in the first place for the terrible clearance.

Wright and Fox were atrocious, and both should be dropped for next week. That is where we showed no endeavour, and with Wrack approaching full fitness [according to the OS] and Demon chomping at the bit, i'd bring them two in for Wright and Fox respectively, and possibly keates in for Pead. Those kind of performances shouldn't be tolerated. Yes we are top of the league, but we are letting points drop needlessly. It wasn't that long ago we had a 9 point lead, since then we've dropped two points in the last minute against Bristol, and lost to Mansfield.

To me its very worrying. When we come up against a side with anything about them, we struggle to stamp our authority on the game. We do fine against the dross of this god awful division like P'boro and Grimsby, but against teams with a bit of balls like Swindon, Mk Dons and Mansfield, we struggle because our lightweight, lazy and slow midfield don't cut it.

I've been saying for ages we need to strengthen midfield, and I think yesterday proved it.

[Duke]

Seeing the goal again , its difficult to tell if it was hand ball or a foul on Ince.
One thing for the sure , the reaction of the Mansfield players tells me they was as much suprised as we were that goal was allowed.